Key signature: Gmajor
Submitted on October 27th 2006 by The Merry Highlander.
This tune has been added to 18 tunebooks.
Also known as An Sioda Ata Id' Bhalluit, A Bhuachaill, The Brown Wallet, Lads Of Tipperary, Madam Casey, Mrs Casey, News From Moidart, The Silken Wallet.
Recordings of a tune by this name:
X: 1
T: Over The Water To Charlie
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
R: jig
K: Gmaj
|:G2 E EDB, | DED DB,D | DED DEG | c3 B2 A |
G2 E EDB, | DED DB,D | DED DEG | ABA G3 :|
|:G2 A B2 c | d2 e d2 B | G2 A B2 c | d3 B2 A |
e2 d d2 B | cBA B2 A | G2 E EDD | c3 B2 A :|
"2"
I submitted this as #2 because there's already a tune here called Over the Water to Charlie with a different melody. There are many tunes with this title but this is my favorite. It is yet another one of my barebones arrangements of a tune once played in the wilds of WV MD and PA USA. This is the way it is in my head today... tomorrow it could be different.
# Posted on October 27th 2006 by The Merry Highlander
Also...
Like a lot of the stuff I post < Im not aware of any recordings of it and can't seem to find a related tune so comments are welcomed.
# Posted on October 27th 2006 by The Merry Highlander
2
When submitting a tune, please follow the instructions which specifically ask that you don't include numbers in the tune title. It's perfectly fine to have different tunes with the same name.
# Posted on October 27th 2006 by Jeremy
Sorry I missed that rule.
Sorry I missed that rule. My mistake. I just didnt want it to refer to recordings that werent accurate.
# Posted on October 27th 2006 by The Merry Highlander
Over The Water To Charlie - this version isn't the Bothys', it's a Morris tune.
This isn't the tune "Over The Water To Charlie" which the Bothy Band played, and which has presumably been entered previously. However, it's a tune that crops up in the Southern English Morris repertoire - I've just forgotten its name.
# Posted on October 27th 2006 by nicholas
Over The Water To Charlie (jig)
Fine tune, but unfortunately I can't find it in Lionel Bacon (one of the source books for Southern English Morris). Unless someone comes up with the information beforehand I'll ask around next time I'm at my English session, which will be early next month.
# Posted on October 27th 2006 by lazyhound
Similar tune
Bill the Weaver's: http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1693 Or, just a different version of the same tune?
# Posted on October 27th 2006 by slainte
Bill the Weaver's
Id say they are related. They could probably fit back to back .
# Posted on October 27th 2006 by The Merry Highlander
Over the water to Charlie Jig
A popular childrens song in Irish "Beidh ril againn, beidh ril againn beidh ril againn Dia Domhnaigh" was sung to this air.Seems related to the wedding song "Ta do mharagadh deanta" also.
# Posted on October 27th 2006 by cruiser
Maybe it isn't Morris...
Lazyhound - I may be mistaken about it being Morris. I think I heard it on a John Kirkpatrick recording somewhere. If it isn't Morris, it sounds as if it ought to be!
# Posted on October 28th 2006 by nicholas
More info
There is a version collected in the 1930s from a northern West Virginia born fiddler named James Taylor by Samuel P Bayard. This version has styrongly influenced mine. Bayard gives a lot of history on the tune....
It was in the collection of Natahniel Gow ( "A Collection of Strathspey Reels" 1784-1809) With the title of "Madam Casey" or "Miss, Mrs. Mistress (Cassey.)
Also he cites Irish variants- "An Sioda Ata id' Bhalluit, a Bhuachaill ?" (Is it silk thats in your bag my boy?) He says maybe it was anglo-cized to " The Brown Wallet and The Silken Wallet.)... other Titles "NO Surrender" and "The LAds of Tipperary."
He also says that it was used for some of the "Child" ballads and other songs... The Baffled Knight, Sir Hugh, Johnnie Cock ,The Earl of Errol.)
So the melody seems to have a historical presence in both Scotland, Ireland... and beyond.
Ive used Bayard's notes alot and trust them MOST of the time.
# Posted on October 28th 2006 by The Merry Highlander
John Duffy
"Ta do mharagadh deanta" seems to be related to "Royal Charlie" which is different tune altogether sometimes called "Over the Water to Charlie..." which is already here at the session...http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1888 "Behind the Bush.... is known to me as "Over the Water to..." also. Royal Charlie is usuall Scottish, Behind the Bush Irish but essentially the same great tune... but not the one I posted.
# Posted on October 28th 2006 by The Merry Highlander
Mrs Casey
Definitely a dance tune from the 'Fieldtown' tradition of Cotswold morris and it CAN be found in Bacon's manual on page 160. his version of 'Mrs Casey' is identcal to mine but I got mine a long time before Bacon published his. The last four bars of the 'B' music is slightly different from that here.
# Posted on October 28th 2006 by hetty
Don't mix up the 2 Charlies
'Wha'll be King but Charlie' is not the same as 'Over the Water to Charlie' 'Behind the Bush...' is related to 'Wha'll be King' not OTWtC.
'Bill the Weaver' seems to be a mix of 2 tunes 'A' music is from 'Mrs Casey' and the 'B' music from 'Over the Water to C' No wonder there's confusion over tune titles.
Incidentally, there is a very nice version of 'Over the Water' to be found in the 'Bledington' morris tradition.
# Posted on October 28th 2006 by hetty
Mixing up the Charlies
I dont think Im mixing them up... The title is a "floater" and I know 3-4 tunes associated with it.
# Posted on October 29th 2006 by The Merry Highlander
Over The Water To Charlie (2), aka "Mrs Casey"
Hetty, thanks for putting me right. I suspect that long before I got to p.160 of Bacon my eyes were starting to give out!
So "Mrs Casey" now appears to be an official name for this tune - there may be more than one, of course. That's not unusual.
# Posted on October 29th 2006 by lazyhound
O'er the water to Charlie
This seems to me to be a version of a tune i know as "News from Moidart" which i'd always thought was composed Neil Gow.
# Posted on October 29th 2006 by iain beag
Neil Gow
IN checking the dates of collections Iguess it is posssible that Gow couldve written it, but why would he publish it under a different title in the pre-mentioned collection, also it seems to be wide spread in tradition not only in Scotland, but in Ireland and England as well. Sort of a mysterious little tune.
# Posted on October 29th 2006 by The Merry Highlander
Correction
You said "Neil" Gow... not Nathaniel... thats different!
# Posted on October 29th 2006 by The Merry Highlander
Over The Water To Charlie
I don't know whether there has been a slight transcription error somewhere along the line but it seems to me that bar 7 of the second part plays better and more smoothly if it reads |G2E EDE| - i.e. the last note is an E and not a D.
# Posted on October 29th 2006 by lazyhound
"floater"
In this case MaryH I do not think "floater" is valid. the two tunes are very distinct and my inclination is to create clarity. If tunes have titles I like to allocate them logically if possible. Sometimes tunes get labelled by mistake, which is what I feel has happened here.
When I learnt 'Wha'll be king but Charlie' the parts were swapped, 'A' being 'B' and vica-versa.
# Posted on October 30th 2006 by hetty
My take on 'Wha'll be king but C' is slightly different to this one, (just the usual few notes in various bars but enough to matter) I'll post my ABC her http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1888
I learnt it as a Scottish set dance tune. "Behind the Bush" certainly feels more Irish.
# Posted on October 30th 2006 by hetty
Oer the water to Charlie
These are all great Jacobite tunes Mary .Royal Charlie "welcome royal royal Charlie" etc. Keep them coming.
# Posted on October 30th 2006 by cruiser
Tune Titles
In the tradition that I "work" from, Over the Water to Charlie is the title for 3-4 different tunes... That is the traditional music of the Allegheny Mountains of Western MD, WV and SW Pennsylvania... alot of my tunes come from players born before the 1900's... but it seems for you, the titles are specific. .. which is good.
# Posted on October 30th 2006 by The Merry Highlander
Lazy Hound/Bar 7
Bar 7... I agree and I think thats how I normally play it. I just took it out of my head and at the time it sounded good to me the way the ABCs are.
# Posted on October 30th 2006 by The Merry Highlander
Over The Water To Charlie
Under what name has the Bothy Band tune of that name been entered on this database? Someone must have done it...
# Posted on November 1st 2006 by nicholas
Search on "Charlie"
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/882
# Posted on November 2nd 2006 by Kenny