The Session: Tunes - Mike Hobin's (mazurka)

Hmm...

Hop-Jig in 3/4? Slip-Jig in 3/4? Mazurka? Slip-Polka in 3/4? Hop-slip-polka-jig-mazurka in 3/4??
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/10125

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by Pere

"Gan Ainm" ~ ???

M: 9/8
L: 1/8
K: A Dorian
Bcd |
e2 A A2 g f2 d | e2 A A3 B2 d | e2 A A2 g f2 d | B2 G G3 B2 d |
e2 A A2 g f2 d | e2 A A3 g2 a | b2 a g2 e d2 B | B2 A A3 Bcd ||
e2 a a2 g b2 g | e2 A A3 B2 d |e2 a a2 g f2 d | B2 G G3 B2 d |
e2 a a2 g b2 g |e2 a a3 g2 a | b2 a g2 e d2 B | B2 A A3 ||

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan

Much prefer the 9/8 transcription of this, personally.

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by Dow

"Mike Hobin's" ~ having just had a listen ~ IS A JIG ~ 6/8

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan

Not bad, I kind of like that one... Thanks for directing my attention so...

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan

But it is a shame that it is contributed on site here as a 'mazurka'... I wish you'd have asked me first. I missed the 'discussion'...or avoided it when I saw it had something to do with 'Lunasa', sorry, my biases, though I like having them challenged...

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan

I've just listened to a sample on the net and it's not a jig. I hear it as a hop jig like the Butterfly.

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by Dow

Gets your ears cleaned out...

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan

No, get yours!

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by Dow

Sorry, maybe it is my need for Q-tips, but I did a long reduction in the recording, taking it down to really, really slow, and it is played and grouped in threes, and that can be ABc or A2 c, or as notated if you want a run ++ GB/c/d... But hey, maybe the electonics is having its own way with the digital. You can't always have something just because you want it. Like I can't have force something into Dorian that is in Mixolydian... ;-)

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan

But hey, it's only a melody, so why not take it every which way and loose... I actually like doing it in a set, going from the 9/8 into the 6/8, and who says it can't also work as a waltz or a polka with a little doctoring here and there. I've got the knives laid out, you bring the pain killer...

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan

Get my what? :-)

I'll take scotch, a good single malt, an Islay is my preference, but none of that damned ice or water or soda, how could anyone spoil it that way?

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan

It's a bloody hop jig!

The tune could potentially be played both ways, as 'c' points out. However, 'c' needs all that hair in his lugs trimming. Lunasa's intention is to play it as a hop jig :-)

With variations in bar 1 |e3 e2g f2d| and bar 7 |g2e c2B G2d|.

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by Dow

Definitely eAA & eaa...not a doubt...but I like your 'cute' little variation... :-P

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan

'c', the reason why you are hearing it as a jig is partly because it works structurally like that, but more importantly because the musicians in the recording have slightly (but not totally) straightened out the swing of the 9/8 so it almost sounds like it's in 3/4, and then the bass punches out a cross-rhythm that's syncopated with the underlying 9/8. Because the bass and guitar rhythm is so strong, the subtleties of the pipes rhythm is obscured a bit.

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by Dow

Now, that gan ainm up top has a =c in it, but you may be right, these other ways with it can work with either a =c or a ^c if you like... I'm not arguing with that. Yes, you're right, of course you're right ~ and I am completely deluded ~ HA, HA, HAAA, HAAAAAA!!! ~ and off in the distance, the sun setting, a demented man in y-fronts is disappearing into the Irish sea splashing about and laughing hysterically...

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan

Splashing about and laughing hysterically in pronounced triplets in a strong 2 and 4 pulse... HaHaHa, HaHaHa, HaHaHa, HaHaHa...

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan

I can see you trying to hide in another thread btw, but you're safe. I'm not going there, I'm going to bed :-)

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by Dow

Next time it we'll be 'swining' on a star... Nighty night... Sleep tight... Pleasant dre, dre, dre, dre, dre-ams... ;-)

# Posted on June 23rd 2006 by ceolachan

Hey, how about a CSI of ITM ~

Here's a little puzzle, whatever you do with the rhythm, notes occur in ways that sometimes can tell you their original intent... All swing, as this was the 'straight' nature of this particular recording, has been removed, which means removing the 2's, but using Dow's transcription as an example. As well, the run of B/c/d has been incorporated into the phrases. And for the most part, ignoring the accompaniment, this is what the pipes were laying down...

eAAgfdeAAAB/c/degfdcedGGGB/c/d |
eAAgfdegagefgedBGdBAAAB/c/d |
eaabagedefgageafge dB ~G3 Bcd |
eaabagedefgageddBA GBAAAB/c/d |

And not forgetting some variation, such as that telling 'hold' to start the first or second string of notes:

e3gfd ~

Sorry gang, I am definitely in a 'wind-up' mood this week. Maybe it is the repercussions of the road rage I faced last week? And sadly, having already played that card and stood in his defence, I can't start anything to do with whether or not something is 'swung'...

# Posted on June 24th 2006 by ceolachan

Now ~ Full honesty ~ I love 'em all...

Note corrections made first to the last two lines: B/A/G ~ etc...

eaabagedefgageafgedBGGB/c/d |
eaabagedefgageddB/A/GBAAAB/c/d |

Here are the solutions, starting with the smallest division/value for a beat, two notes, 2's, which could be taken as 3/4 or swung as 9/8 ( | e>A A>g f>d | ):

eA Ag fd eA AA B/c/d eg fd ce dG GG B/c/d |
eA Ag fd eg ag ef ge dB Gd BA AA B/c/d |
ea ab ag ed ef ga ge af ge dB GG B/c/d |
ea ab ag ed ef ga ge dd B/A/G BA AA B/c/d |

A blast to play straight or swung...

& here is the other solution, in 3's :

eAA gfd eAA AB/c/d egf dce dGG GB/c/d |
eAA gfd ega gef ged BGd BAA AB/c/d |
eaa bag ede fga gea fge dBG GB/c/d |
eaa bag ede fga ged dB/A/G BAA AB/c/d |

Take my word for it, while it will divide by 4, it will not work there without extreme doctoring...

# Posted on June 24th 2006 by ceolachan

There are a number of other tunes that will work similarly... Now there's the potential of a spark in a dry field of corn...

"Hop Corn!" ~ didn't you figure that one out?

# Posted on June 24th 2006 by ceolachan

Are you still on about this tune? So are you not going to try and write us one in 4's. You've said it now so I've got all excited by the possibilities and want to see what you can come up with. Are you going to make me sit and wait?

# Posted on June 24th 2006 by Dow

You get Pigeon On The Gate!
Sort of...

Well, that's my effort.

# Posted on June 24th 2006 by Dow

Hah! ~ I caught you.... Now, reeling you in I just know is going to be hell... That should have pulled the hook deep into you cheek, now, have I got the right weight of line for such a behemouth? ;-)

# Posted on June 24th 2006 by ceolachan

You have any idea the can of worms we've opened here? It could completely transform Irish music as we know it. There's no limit to the amoung of hop corn one could pop...

# Posted on June 24th 2006 by ceolachan

I found Lúnasa's notation of it. I didn't transcribe it too bad after all...

http://img.lunasa.ie/misc/book-page16.jpg

It's a hop-jig in 3/4.

# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Pere

yeah it's a hop jig, cauze another name for it is "the cullybacky hop"

# Posted on February 25th 2008 by BloodStorm89

"The Cullybacky Hop-Jig" ~ C: Mike Hobin

Yes Pere, almost note-for-note ~ but let's not forget that webpages have a nasty habit of disappearing into the digital void. Here's the ABCs, minus the chords, and the notes from that page you were kind enough to link to ~ in case the link eventually fades away ~

http://img.lunasa.ie/misc/book-page16.jpg

"Mike Hoban's" ~ arranged by Lunasa

The first tune in this set came from a recording of Paddy O'Brien, the great accordion player and tune collectot originally from Co. Offaly, but now resident in Minneapolis. It's a hop-jig that Paddy learned from its composer, Mike Hoban, a whistle-player from Foxford, Co. Mayo who moved to Chicago in the 1960s. A hop-jig is a type of slip-jig but we played it in a 3/4 time instead of 9/8.

It was still a kick mud wrestling here... I's not like I'm a fan of flattening slip/hop jigs and making up stories to support the practice... Give me more of that hay to twist... ;-)

# Posted on February 25th 2008 by ceolachan

Further mud wrestling ~

This actually made me commit and purchase the album, my first and only from Lunasa's rattle bag. I tried to get the O'Brien one but found Lunasa's first, in a clearance sale for a quid. Yes, very clearly in 3s and as you've give it dear Pere, well done. 3/4 fits it as they play it. I remember seeing someone's notation of a similar attack (this alteration of 'hop-jig') as a slip jig but grouping the notes as you've given them here, but something like the following ~

Crazy eh? They are very talented musicians, but the CD doesn't get a lot of play in our house. I decided to put it on again today. Nah, sorry, a bit too herbal tea for us, t's just too daft and exhibitionist for us. It's not like we don't occassionally enjoy a cup ot herbal tea, just not Liptons... It doesn't make me want to dance and the end result after a full listen is more akin to sea sickness than inebriation... ;-)

# Posted on February 26th 2008 by ceolachan

Oops! ~ missed converting those last two bars ~
~ | (4e2g2 (4f2d2 (4c2e2 | (4d2G2 G3 Bcd | ~

# Posted on February 26th 2008 by ceolachan

"James Kelly's Hop Jig" ~ here's that example

Key signature: D Major
Submitted on March 9th 2003 by gian marco.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1492

|: (2FA (2AB A3 | (2FA (2AD (2B/c/d | ~

Well, it wasn't (4 but (2, which makes more sense... I'm sick, forgive me for my slip... Heh, heh, heh, cough, cough... ;-)

# Posted on February 27th 2008 by ceolachan