Was at CCE in Chicago couple weeks back...great program this year though the highlight had to be Liz C. and John D. playing a set at the banquet Saturday night...what a sound he gets! That big fat sustained (warm distorted?) bass line! She was of course her usual brilliant self as well.
I took a look at an old video from the 90's when he was playing with Solas and it looks like he has two pickups (two 1/4" jacks anyway) on the Tak he was playing at the time.
Anybody have any ideas how he does it...other that being an obviously talented and innovative player? Has this already been a discussion previously?
Thanks
fw
whoa...just did a John Doyle search here...and the name itself just might start a fire...and nearly did back in april.
really just looking for specific insight re: his rig, pickups, etc.
thanks!
fw
I bought John Doyles dvd lesson available from http://www.homespuntapes.com. Athough this suppose to be a basic irish rythm guitar lessons. You surtenly see some of his style "close". He start with the tune playing a simple "3-chord-trick", from there the tune eith minors and syncopation. At last with substitute and passing chords. He plays here in drop d tuning. I think he also have a tutor available from mad for trad. Maybe this can be seen for some inspiration.
From Acoustic Guitar magazine….
John Doyle records and performs on two guitars, a mahogany-body Lowden (www.lowdenguitars.com) dreadnought D-10 and a Martin D-28. The Lowden was built as a lefty, while the Martin is an off-the-rack right-handed model with the nut and saddle switched for left-handed playing. "It sounds great," says Doyle. "I can hear no discernable difference."
The Lowden is Doyle’s overall favorite. "It’s perfect for fingerstyling and for low tunings," he says. "I do a lot of recording on the Lowden and play it on stage as well. Most Lowden guitars have what people call a ‘film’ over them. It gives them a muffled, fat sound that’s great for when you’re thumping on that low string. You have this boom that lasts forever."
He also plays a short-necked, five-course Trillium bouzouki, made by New Hampshire luthier Robert Abrams ([603] 431-6056, www.octavemandolin.com). He tunes it D G D A D, from low to high.
Doyle performs and records using a heavy set of D’Addario phosphor-bronze strings and changes the low E out for an even heavier nickel-wound D’Addario .072. When flatpicking, he favors a light .60-mm. USA nylon pick, which provides clarity without being brittle.
When it comes to amplification, Doyle just wants to plug in and go. "I’ve got a Highlander pickup and a mic in the Lowden," he says, "but I never actually use the mic. The pickup sounds great by itself. On the Martin I’ve got an L.R. Baggs Dual Source [pickup/mic combination with on-board blender], and it’s the best sound. I can just plug it straight into a Para Acoustic D.I. and use nothing else. It takes a lot of the pressure off."
Try one of these they are really usefull for beefing up the bass strings the poly mode allows you to dial in the octave starting at the lowest notes so you can have say low d to middle c or d and you adjust the dry signal against the octave usually dry signal 100% and the octave 45% its subtle but very effective people often ask me "where is the bass player hiding then ?"
Its also good in standard and alternate tunings. My biggest fear when getting one is that the bass notes would clash but its not a problem. Before I used to turn up all the bass on the guitar eq, now there is no need to. It's when you turn it off the guitar sounds really empty so I always use it in situations where bass players are not present.
He pretty much hits every beat with a strum (DUDU for reels, DUDDUD for jigs), providing a steady light pulse underneath, but has an amazing ability to add emphasis all over the place, on the front, back (side!) of the rhythm. As noted above, he beefs up the bass strings, and usually shapes his chords so the root is on the bottom string (dropped D helps make that possible). The root note is usually also on the high string, or it is damped (for example, he damps the high E string on D chords instead of playing an F# as many do). He uses the heel of his strumming hand (I almost said right hand, but he does play left handed, so it would be his left) to damp the strings--lots of damping. And as shown on albums where he accompanies singers (like the album he did with his dad, and Heidi Talbot's solo album), he can also be sensivitive and do a nice job of fingerpicking.
“Doyle performs and records using a heavy set of D’Addario phosphor-bronze strings and changes the low E out for an even heavier nickel-wound D’Addario .072.”
Are we talking about *heavy* gauge strings or is it really medium gauge? Most modern flat-top guitars aren’t designed to handle the tension of a true heavy set.
In Dublin, Ohio, last summer, Mr. D was playing a Martin D28 and a Fylde which was a bit smaller than a dreadnaught. I think he said it was a Falstaff.
He used that one for several songs, and it sounded lovely, very different from the Martin.
I haven't seen him with a Lowden in several years...
I've taken lessons with John and his style is a lot more comlex than just getting his rig! Check out the new "Solas 10 Year Reunion" CD/DVD available from Compass Records to see/hear what I like to call his "new" or "matured" sound. Chord-triplets galore, more inventive chording, it's crazy! At one point it looks like the DVD is on fast-forward because his fretting hand is sliding up and down the neck so fast!
I also have the Mad4Trad CD-ROM tutorial which was helpful. I've been meaning to transfer last year's lessons with John from Augusta Irish Week in Elkins, WV to the Internet for people to benefit from and digest, but I just haven't had the time. It's already time for this year's Irish Week! I'd recommend, if you're able, to take lessons with John in person. He's very approachable and down-to-earth, so you can go over things with him until you get it down. The strumming and accents really take practice, though. Look out for his unique grip on the pick - he lays it on the index and middle fingers, with the thumb for support. The wrist action and the angle of attack play huge roles in developing the signature "Doyle sound"!
Mick Moloney calls John the "Groove Master". Rhythm is everything!
That John Doyle Sound
That John Doyle Sound
Was at CCE in Chicago couple weeks back...great program this year though the highlight had to be Liz C. and John D. playing a set at the banquet Saturday night...what a sound he gets! That big fat sustained (warm distorted?) bass line! She was of course her usual brilliant self as well.
I took a look at an old video from the 90's when he was playing with Solas and it looks like he has two pickups (two 1/4" jacks anyway) on the Tak he was playing at the time.
Anybody have any ideas how he does it...other that being an obviously talented and innovative player? Has this already been a discussion previously?
Thanks
fw
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by farquharson whistler
whoa...just did a John Doyle search here...and the name itself just might start a fire...and nearly did back in april.
really just looking for specific insight re: his rig, pickups, etc.
thanks!
fw
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by farquharson whistler
Re: That John Doyle Sound
I bought John Doyles dvd lesson available from http://www.homespuntapes.com. Athough this suppose to be a basic irish rythm guitar lessons. You surtenly see some of his style "close". He start with the tune playing a simple "3-chord-trick", from there the tune eith minors and syncopation. At last with substitute and passing chords. He plays here in drop d tuning. I think he also have a tutor available from mad for trad. Maybe this can be seen for some inspiration.
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by TradLad
Re: That John Doyle Sound
Also he uses a heavy set of strings and an extra heavy low E (.072 which he tunes down to D)
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by BegF
Re: That John Doyle Sound
From Acoustic Guitar magazine….
John Doyle records and performs on two guitars, a mahogany-body Lowden (www.lowdenguitars.com) dreadnought D-10 and a Martin D-28. The Lowden was built as a lefty, while the Martin is an off-the-rack right-handed model with the nut and saddle switched for left-handed playing. "It sounds great," says Doyle. "I can hear no discernable difference."
The Lowden is Doyle’s overall favorite. "It’s perfect for fingerstyling and for low tunings," he says. "I do a lot of recording on the Lowden and play it on stage as well. Most Lowden guitars have what people call a ‘film’ over them. It gives them a muffled, fat sound that’s great for when you’re thumping on that low string. You have this boom that lasts forever."
He also plays a short-necked, five-course Trillium bouzouki, made by New Hampshire luthier Robert Abrams ([603] 431-6056, www.octavemandolin.com). He tunes it D G D A D, from low to high.
Doyle performs and records using a heavy set of D’Addario phosphor-bronze strings and changes the low E out for an even heavier nickel-wound D’Addario .072. When flatpicking, he favors a light .60-mm. USA nylon pick, which provides clarity without being brittle.
When it comes to amplification, Doyle just wants to plug in and go. "I’ve got a Highlander pickup and a mic in the Lowden," he says, "but I never actually use the mic. The pickup sounds great by itself. On the Martin I’ve got an L.R. Baggs Dual Source [pickup/mic combination with on-board blender], and it’s the best sound. I can just plug it straight into a Para Acoustic D.I. and use nothing else. It takes a lot of the pressure off."
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by BegF
Re: That John Doyle Sound
Dont worry Farquharson, I've said me piece!
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by Hugo Chavez
Re: That John Doyle Sound
…and you weren’t wide off the mark either
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by BegF
Re: That John Doyle Sound
http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product~name~Boss-OC-3~ID~2459.asp
Try one of these they are really usefull for beefing up the bass strings the poly mode allows you to dial in the octave starting at the lowest notes so you can have say low d to middle c or d and you adjust the dry signal against the octave usually dry signal 100% and the octave 45% its subtle but very effective people often ask me "where is the bass player hiding then ?"
Its also good in standard and alternate tunings. My biggest fear when getting one is that the bass notes would clash but its not a problem. Before I used to turn up all the bass on the guitar eq, now there is no need to. It's when you turn it off the guitar sounds really empty so I always use it in situations where bass players are not present.
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by Ripthecalico
Re: That John Doyle Sound
He pretty much hits every beat with a strum (DUDU for reels, DUDDUD for jigs), providing a steady light pulse underneath, but has an amazing ability to add emphasis all over the place, on the front, back (side!) of the rhythm. As noted above, he beefs up the bass strings, and usually shapes his chords so the root is on the bottom string (dropped D helps make that possible). The root note is usually also on the high string, or it is damped (for example, he damps the high E string on D chords instead of playing an F# as many do). He uses the heel of his strumming hand (I almost said right hand, but he does play left handed, so it would be his left) to damp the strings--lots of damping. And as shown on albums where he accompanies singers (like the album he did with his dad, and Heidi Talbot's solo album), he can also be sensivitive and do a nice job of fingerpicking.
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: That John Doyle Sound
“Doyle performs and records using a heavy set of D’Addario phosphor-bronze strings and changes the low E out for an even heavier nickel-wound D’Addario .072.”
Are we talking about *heavy* gauge strings or is it really medium gauge? Most modern flat-top guitars aren’t designed to handle the tension of a true heavy set.
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: That John Doyle Sound
Well a medium E string is 056, so the 072 is about the size of a D on a Bass !
I do think he has a specially designed guitar to take this though.
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by BegF
Re: That John Doyle Sound
0.072 Holy sh*t!
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by Ron P
Re: That John Doyle Sound
In Dublin, Ohio, last summer, Mr. D was playing a Martin D28 and a Fylde which was a bit smaller than a dreadnaught. I think he said it was a Falstaff.
He used that one for several songs, and it sounded lovely, very different from the Martin.
I haven't seen him with a Lowden in several years...
Best.
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by stv culchie
Re: That John Doyle Sound
I've taken lessons with John and his style is a lot more comlex than just getting his rig! Check out the new "Solas 10 Year Reunion" CD/DVD available from Compass Records to see/hear what I like to call his "new" or "matured" sound. Chord-triplets galore, more inventive chording, it's crazy! At one point it looks like the DVD is on fast-forward because his fretting hand is sliding up and down the neck so fast!
I also have the Mad4Trad CD-ROM tutorial which was helpful. I've been meaning to transfer last year's lessons with John from Augusta Irish Week in Elkins, WV to the Internet for people to benefit from and digest, but I just haven't had the time. It's already time for this year's Irish Week! I'd recommend, if you're able, to take lessons with John in person. He's very approachable and down-to-earth, so you can go over things with him until you get it down. The strumming and accents really take practice, though. Look out for his unique grip on the pick - he lays it on the index and middle fingers, with the thumb for support. The wrist action and the angle of attack play huge roles in developing the signature "Doyle sound"!
Mick Moloney calls John the "Groove Master". Rhythm is everything!
Email for more info,
~sean
# Posted on May 4th 2006 by DADGADLad