How do you remember how various songs start - any memory categorization systems recommended? Or is it just experience/playing/hearing songs over and over?
The more parts of the brain you can employ in learning, the easier it gets. Melodies and lyrics come from different parts, so they reinforce each other. Muscle memory helps with the tunes. A lot of the old tunes had lyrics, which, if you can find them reinforce the melody. Some were songs turned to dances, others were extant tunes that got lyricized. I have noticed that a cup of Brazil Santos #2 will trigger "John Doughery's Mazurka".
It is all catergorized in the brain somehow, but you already guessed the answer: "just experience/playing/hearing songs over and over".
If you mean tunes (i.e. that have no words), a method that I use when I can´t remember the beginning of a tune is to jot down on a scrap of paper or on a small notepad, the first couple of bars or so in ABC notation. That´s usually enough to jog my memory.
For example: The Mountain Top
GA BG AG EG D...(by now I´ve got it)
You could even make a mnemonic word from the first 6 letters and mutter "Gabgag" to yourself when trying to recall The Mountain Top.
You might get some funny looks, though !
Almost certainly because I know less than 200 tunes, I don’t have a lot of problem remembering how they start. I hate it when I train wreck on second endings, usually when I’m playing out of my depth, speed-wise. Also, I don’t usually start tunes, so by the second time on the B part the third time through I’ve usually got it.
Whether tunes or songs, I put the most effort into learning the first few notes/phrases or first line of each verse. I find that, in most cases, once I get into it, the subconcious takes over and brings me to the end of the part or verse.
Repetition is the key. Do it over and over and over. And if that doesn't work, do it over and over and over. And if that doesn't work, repeat the process.
Also, if you are using notes or lyric sheets, hide the sheets as soon as possible in the process, only refer to the written material if you are totally stuck. The sooner you throw away those crutches, the sooner you will get it locked into memory.
The good news is that, once you really have a song or tune, it is there in the back of your brain nigh onto forever.
What happens when you have a cup of Brazil Santos #1? Does it trigger Bruckner's Ninth Symphony? If it were me, I'd remember that Brazil Santos triggers a mazurka, but it would be a guess as to which number triggers which tune. And are the numbers on varieties of coffee global or local?
Don't ask me, I transposed the second half of verses 3 and 4 of a song I've known for 20 + years on Saturday night, and in front of Martin Carthy and Norma Waterson too ( name drop, name drop ) Wasn't even nerves, just stupidity, or old age.
But G. P., I bet you did it with style and grace, and most listening were none the wiser. It wouldn't be a folk song without a few words changed, or a la la la somewhere or other, filling in for the word that was stored in a brain cell that was struck by an errant cosmic ray and emptied of its contents.
I tend to simply remember the first 3-5 notes of a tune. Usually the first couple of notes will be enough to remind me of the whole tune (which is why many people jot them down).
But I don't remember the NAMES of the notes, I remember the FINGERING of them.
You do run into some trouble with tunes that start the same way with that method, but then you just have to categorize those tunes as "starts like this", and then you only have to remember the next couple of notes where the tunes diverge.
I have a couple of problems with my mnemonic device scheme, though, and those are:
1. It doesn't necessarily include a way to remember what kind of tune it is. (So I sometimes have a hard time remembering how Eel in the Sink starts because I keep going into Sliabh Russel... etc.)
2. When I was first learning tunes, I was associating those first couple of notes with the NAME of the tune - therefore, if I couldn't remember the name of the tune, I would have a hard time playing it. I don't do that as much anymore, but it is still useful, because people commonly ask me the names of tunes, and I can remember them pretty well.
If you're actually referring to "songs", I can't help you out much there... I only sing a couple songs, and I don't have any devices figured out for remembering them.
I have a pretty good method for remembering song lyrics. I mostly sing with my wife, so I just watch her and read her lips. I had forgotten that The White Cockade has a line that goes, “Tis true my love’s an idiot…” Probably should look that up.
I have a friend who is a whistle player. He has devised a simple method for notating the first measure of the A & B parts of a tune. The method is sort of 1/2 ABC and 1/2 music notation. If you know your tunes well, it works very nicely.
What he does is write out the name of the tune. Next he notates of the first measure using the letter of the note or pitch and then adding a stem to the letter like a musical note. One stem without a flag is a quarter note, one flag and eight-note, and 2 flags a 1/16th note. You can easily keep a list of 50 or so tunes on single sheet of paper.
troisrive
I've recently been browsing through the Naxos website, most of the contents of which you can download as streaming audio if you're a subscriber. I noticed that when something is being streamed the Naxos scrolling marquee descibes it as a "song" - whether it is a "real" song, a Beethoven piano sonata, a Mozart symphony, or a jazz track. "Song" is evidently being used generically in the music industry, in the absence of any other suitable term, to refer non-specifically to any kind of music.
But here, they are always "tunes", unless they are actually being sung with words
lol at GaryAMartin:
I believe the Refence number id is international. I have only seen, heard of, tasted the second one. I suspect because I don't frequent the one's that serve the #! for financial reasons.
I was living in Japan at the time when JDM popped into my head, so I started playing it. Now when I can get Brazil Santos (still only #2) I think of JDM. In Texas my real financial niche is "Coffee". I can get "Columbian" at the same price, but it puts me in mind of Shakira so I don't drink it at sessions.
Incidently it helps my to remember that "The White Petticoat" starts with "Bed"
I have no problem filing tunes away in my memory. It's getting them out when I want them that's the problem.
I have one tune I wrote myself which nicely solves the problem. It's called 'Cabbage Face' - no prizes for guessing what the first 11 notes are. In fact, taking it further, and purely by chance, the first 19 notes spedd 'Cabbage Faced Baggage'. It's also quite a nice tune - as my compositions go.
I can hear a few notes and I see a "picture" in my head of the song. I know this sounds weird. I found out that this is a thing called synesthesia. The music is associated in my head with colors and shapes. Hard to explain to someone else. I almost never forget a tune or lyrics.
I used to memorize school work by putting it to tunes.
My children and friends think I'm really strange because they say I go around with a "screen saver" in my head.
I never usually have a problem starting the song, it's normally around the 3rd verse where the whole thing starts to de-rail, I am fasmouse for only know two verses and a chorus for "over the hills and far away" (twee I know) but my mate and I have this thing where he gives me a subject jus before the end of the chorus and I have to make it up in realtime....can be a bit freaky if he's feeling silly but it's lots of fun. The only time I ever forgot the first line was for Dougie Mclean's Caladonia, those of you who knop the line will understand my consternation when I asked for the feed.
All in all the best advice for remembering songs I can give is to simply pick songs you like and understand, try and feel your way through them, one or two words out is a style issue, if you get the meaning and the message wrong, then you have a problem, hust enjoy it !
bloodyfiddlers:
I can hear your conversation now:
"What's the first line to Caledonia?"
"I don't know."
"You must know."
"I told you, I don't know."
"Of course you do, you sang it last week."
"Seriously, I don't know."
"OK, lets try another question, who's on first?"
Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
How do you remember how various songs start - any memory categorization systems recommended? Or is it just experience/playing/hearing songs over and over?
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by elvis2440
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
Songs or tunes?
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
The more parts of the brain you can employ in learning, the easier it gets. Melodies and lyrics come from different parts, so they reinforce each other. Muscle memory helps with the tunes. A lot of the old tunes had lyrics, which, if you can find them reinforce the melody. Some were songs turned to dances, others were extant tunes that got lyricized. I have noticed that a cup of Brazil Santos #2 will trigger "John Doughery's Mazurka".
It is all catergorized in the brain somehow, but you already guessed the answer: "just experience/playing/hearing songs over and over".
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by Owell Mabee
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
If you mean tunes (i.e. that have no words), a method that I use when I can´t remember the beginning of a tune is to jot down on a scrap of paper or on a small notepad, the first couple of bars or so in ABC notation. That´s usually enough to jog my memory.
For example: The Mountain Top
GA BG AG EG D...(by now I´ve got it)
You could even make a mnemonic word from the first 6 letters and mutter "Gabgag" to yourself when trying to recall The Mountain Top.
You might get some funny looks, though !
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by murfbox
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
Almost certainly because I know less than 200 tunes, I don’t have a lot of problem remembering how they start. I hate it when I train wreck on second endings, usually when I’m playing out of my depth, speed-wise. Also, I don’t usually start tunes, so by the second time on the B part the third time through I’ve usually got it.
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by fidkid
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
Whether tunes or songs, I put the most effort into learning the first few notes/phrases or first line of each verse. I find that, in most cases, once I get into it, the subconcious takes over and brings me to the end of the part or verse.
Repetition is the key. Do it over and over and over. And if that doesn't work, do it over and over and over. And if that doesn't work, repeat the process.
Also, if you are using notes or lyric sheets, hide the sheets as soon as possible in the process, only refer to the written material if you are totally stuck. The sooner you throw away those crutches, the sooner you will get it locked into memory.
The good news is that, once you really have a song or tune, it is there in the back of your brain nigh onto forever.
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
What happens when you have a cup of Brazil Santos #1? Does it trigger Bruckner's Ninth Symphony? If it were me, I'd remember that Brazil Santos triggers a mazurka, but it would be a guess as to which number triggers which tune. And are the numbers on varieties of coffee global or local?
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
Don't ask me, I transposed the second half of verses 3 and 4 of a song I've known for 20 + years on Saturday night, and in front of Martin Carthy and Norma Waterson too ( name drop, name drop ) Wasn't even nerves, just stupidity, or old age.
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
But G. P., I bet you did it with style and grace, and most listening were none the wiser. It wouldn't be a folk song without a few words changed, or a la la la somewhere or other, filling in for the word that was stored in a brain cell that was struck by an errant cosmic ray and emptied of its contents.
# Posted on March 28th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
I tend to simply remember the first 3-5 notes of a tune. Usually the first couple of notes will be enough to remind me of the whole tune (which is why many people jot them down).
But I don't remember the NAMES of the notes, I remember the FINGERING of them.
You do run into some trouble with tunes that start the same way with that method, but then you just have to categorize those tunes as "starts like this", and then you only have to remember the next couple of notes where the tunes diverge.
I have a couple of problems with my mnemonic device scheme, though, and those are:
1. It doesn't necessarily include a way to remember what kind of tune it is. (So I sometimes have a hard time remembering how Eel in the Sink starts because I keep going into Sliabh Russel... etc.)
2. When I was first learning tunes, I was associating those first couple of notes with the NAME of the tune - therefore, if I couldn't remember the name of the tune, I would have a hard time playing it. I don't do that as much anymore, but it is still useful, because people commonly ask me the names of tunes, and I can remember them pretty well.
If you're actually referring to "songs", I can't help you out much there... I only sing a couple songs, and I don't have any devices figured out for remembering them.
Good luck!
Pete
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by Reverend
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
I have a pretty good method for remembering song lyrics. I mostly sing with my wife, so I just watch her and read her lips. I had forgotten that The White Cockade has a line that goes, “Tis true my love’s an idiot…” Probably should look that up.
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
I have a friend who is a whistle player. He has devised a simple method for notating the first measure of the A & B parts of a tune. The method is sort of 1/2 ABC and 1/2 music notation. If you know your tunes well, it works very nicely.
What he does is write out the name of the tune. Next he notates of the first measure using the letter of the note or pitch and then adding a stem to the letter like a musical note. One stem without a flag is a quarter note, one flag and eight-note, and 2 flags a 1/16th note. You can easily keep a list of 50 or so tunes on single sheet of paper.
troisrive
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by troisrive
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
I've recently been browsing through the Naxos website, most of the contents of which you can download as streaming audio if you're a subscriber. I noticed that when something is being streamed the Naxos scrolling marquee descibes it as a "song" - whether it is a "real" song, a Beethoven piano sonata, a Mozart symphony, or a jazz track. "Song" is evidently being used generically in the music industry, in the absence of any other suitable term, to refer non-specifically to any kind of music.
But here, they are always "tunes", unless they are actually being sung with words
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
lol at GaryAMartin:
I believe the Refence number id is international. I have only seen, heard of, tasted the second one. I suspect because I don't frequent the one's that serve the #! for financial reasons.
I was living in Japan at the time when JDM popped into my head, so I started playing it. Now when I can get Brazil Santos (still only #2) I think of JDM. In Texas my real financial niche is "Coffee". I can get "Columbian" at the same price, but it puts me in mind of Shakira so I don't drink it at sessions.
Incidently it helps my to remember that "The White Petticoat" starts with "Bed"
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by Owell Mabee
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
I have no problem filing tunes away in my memory. It's getting them out when I want them that's the problem.
I have one tune I wrote myself which nicely solves the problem. It's called 'Cabbage Face' - no prizes for guessing what the first 11 notes are. In fact, taking it further, and purely by chance, the first 19 notes spedd 'Cabbage Faced Baggage'. It's also quite a nice tune - as my compositions go.
# Posted on March 29th 2006 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
I can hear a few notes and I see a "picture" in my head of the song. I know this sounds weird. I found out that this is a thing called synesthesia. The music is associated in my head with colors and shapes. Hard to explain to someone else. I almost never forget a tune or lyrics.
I used to memorize school work by putting it to tunes.
My children and friends think I'm really strange because they say I go around with a "screen saver" in my head.
# Posted on March 30th 2006 by harpalaska
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
I never usually have a problem starting the song, it's normally around the 3rd verse where the whole thing starts to de-rail, I am fasmouse for only know two verses and a chorus for "over the hills and far away" (twee I know) but my mate and I have this thing where he gives me a subject jus before the end of the chorus and I have to make it up in realtime....can be a bit freaky if he's feeling silly but it's lots of fun. The only time I ever forgot the first line was for Dougie Mclean's Caladonia, those of you who knop the line will understand my consternation when I asked for the feed.
All in all the best advice for remembering songs I can give is to simply pick songs you like and understand, try and feel your way through them, one or two words out is a style issue, if you get the meaning and the message wrong, then you have a problem, hust enjoy it !
# Posted on March 30th 2006 by bloodyfiddlers
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
bloodyfiddlers:
I can hear your conversation now:
"What's the first line to Caledonia?"
"I don't know."
"You must know."
"I told you, I don't know."
"Of course you do, you sang it last week."
"Seriously, I don't know."
"OK, lets try another question, who's on first?"
# Posted on March 30th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Mnemonic devices for remembering songs?
LOL, Al.
# Posted on March 30th 2006 by Bob himself