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Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
I have two days to figure this out.
I'm about to travel and wanted an Mp3 player device that records music. I have to get some tunes down from those Durham sessions, you know. There seem to be many of these out there. Unfortunately, I have a Mac. All of the little Mp3 player/recording devices appear to be only compatible with PCs, and only iPods are compatible with Macs. The problem is that iPods don't have built-in microphones -- apparently you have to buy other little gizmos to make them record stuff. Other things like iRivers and Zens do have microphones, but Apple appears to have designed their operating system to only work with iPods. I have acquired a Zen that my Mac doesn't even acknowledge exists when I plug it into the USB port. I know other Mac users who have these (Zina? Pete?), so is there a way to make them compatible?
iRivers theoretically also need a Windows operating system, but one of my piper friends had one that my computer was capable of registering. No one near where I live appears to sell them. Neat.
I really don't want to have to pay for an iPod AND an external microphone setup.
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
The only iPod that supports high quality recording (stereo, 44kHz) is the current generation (5th generation, the so-called video ipod), and the devices that would let you take advantage of the capability are just starting to come on the market.
Earlier generations support mono recording at low bit rates, and the add-ons to do that aren't too expensive (Griffin iTalk, ≈ $35). The quality is good enough for gettting the tune, but it's not somehting you'd go out of your way to listen to on it;s own.
I haven't really looked at other devices since I bought my iPod a few years back, but it's not the only device you can use for the mac. Both Creative and iRiver make devices that will work with the Mac and play mp3s.
What you can't do is buy music online that will work cross-platform. The DRM format (digitial rights management) used by Napster, Real, etc. isn't supported on the ipod, and likewise ,the DRM that the iTunes music store uses for the songs it sells won't work on the other players
According to the iRiver web site:
T and U series players: No Mac OS support is available.
iFP, N series: Mac OS 10.2 or higher or OS 9.2.2 using iriver Music Manager only.
I'm sure some of the Creative players are also usable with a mac. Depending on the quality of recording you're looking for though, you might be bettter off just buying a voice recorder and transferring the files to your mac later.
If you want high quality recording, look at the Edirol R-1 portable digitial recorder ( ≈ $400 us). It records to flash memory in WAV format, and the files can be transferred via USB to any Mac or PC. The built in stereo mics are supposed to be quite good and people in other discussion forums say they have been very happy with the unit.
If you'e got an ibook or powerbook, another option is to get one of those mics that you can plug directly into a USB port; fire up Garageband and you've got a portable recording studio. I'm partial to the MacMice MicFlex mic and have gotten very good field recordings with it. They're around $40.
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
I have an iRiver H series with a built-in mic that supposedly isn't compatible with the Mac, but I found a workaround. Really, it's only the iRiver's onboard operating system that's partly-incompatible... when I connect it to my powerbook, I have to take out the battery, hold down the select key while pressing the power button so it does an emergency connect. Only then will OSX recognise it as a drive - but then I've access to all recordings and MP3s on the device, and I can upload or download as I wish. Only thing is that once disconnected and rebooted, the iRiver won't incorporate any newly uploaded Mp3s into its user-friendly database - but if I browse its HD manually then I can access them easily enough.
Not as tricky as it sounds. All of which means that I've a great recording unit for my mac. Dunno about the creative Zen, but it's worth checking to see if there's a similar option.
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
there are other options as someone pointed out. The 3rd Gen iPOd can be loaded with Linux operating system and you can record from there. There is the Maudio recorder (I've seen it and I want it NOW) as well as the Edirol, but street prices are around $375-ish. Rumors on the street is that there willbe a plug in for the video iPod to record, but its rumor and hear say at the moment.
I personally use a minidisc to capture sound files and port them into my Mac using Amadeus ( shareware, similiar to Audacity).
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
I've been using the MPIO FY-200 for nearly 3 years with both my iBook and my PC. It has an iTunes plug-in that allows you to view the device directly in that program.
If I were to get another device I'd go for one of the ones out now that records in stereo (like the Olympus DS-2 - not sure about its mac compatability though). There are more and more of these devices out there so you're bound to find something decent enough that will jive with your mac. Amazing what you can get for $100 these days.
The device I have only records in mono - but certainly is high enough quality for recording sessions and workshops and for sending recordings of tunes to the kids that I teach. It's the size of a cigarette lighter and records 10-12 hours or so - truthfully I have come to appreciate these two qualities more than anything with respect to using it for festivals and sessions and classes.
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
Post-processing is a breeze as well. The device records in a special .wav format more compressed than .mp3.
I usually just leave the thing going for the duration of a session, (unless there's loads of chatting), upload the files to whichever computer, and then use a program like Audacity to break it up into tune sets. You can cut and paste, drag and drop, and save directly to mp3.
Time to upload is quick via USB2.0.
File sizes are generally speaking ~ .75MB/minute, so if your computer doesn't have alot of muscle you might have some trouble processing a file that's 100-300 MB in size. I've got 1GB RAM in my laptop and it doesn't blink. My iBook has 256MB and loading files that big takes a minute or so.
Time estimate - start with raw .wav recording on device, to finished mp3 track: (time to upload, process, save) - no more than 10-15 minutes. If I had a whole session in one file, it might take me 1/2 hour to cull out tune sets of interest and rip a CD.
Nice feature of iTunes is the ability to convert those compressed .wav (ADPCM) files into .mp3's, (which can also be done as I mentioned by Audacity). 4 years ago I was using an early, low quality version of these nifty flash devices. You couldn't do anything with those files then until you decompressed the file into a normal .wav file - and you had to use the built in converter that came with a program that ran only on PC's. What a pain in the ass. So these unused files got thrown into an archive, and now it's been magic going back to them and unlocking these recordings I never got to study.
Makes me think that just maybe we really will see Walt Disney up and walking around again...
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
I'm a sound student and what I use for feild recordings all the time is a portable MD player/recorder, you can pick up a stereo microphone and one of those and you are set, some can be hooked into a computer or you just always plug the output of the MD into the Input of the computer and record on the computer .
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
I can't believe the attitude towards capitalism. Look at the countries that are not capitalistic and tell me about the micro industries. Russia still does not have micro chips! If you want tubes, that's the place. If it weren't for capitalism you would have two tin cans and string between them and you could catch the sound in a paper bag.
Why don't you get an old mintape machine on ebay - with built in mic.
Stonecrusher
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
Uh, yeah, you're taking kvetching and a bit of sarcasm way too seriously. But for the record, capitalism might be the best system we have, but it's not flawless.
Nick,
I know your iRiver worked. However, no one in Colorado seems to sell them and I didn't get my act together early enough to order one online.
Q,
We didn't have to do anything to make Nick's iRiver work with my laptop. We just plugged it into the USB, and it worked.
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
" I have acquired a Zen that my Mac doesn't even acknowledge exists when I plug it into the USB port. "
The guard around the USB port keeeps the iPod far enough away that it doesn't plug in enough to register. Plug the IPod into into a cable then plug it into the Mac. USB stands for United States Bucks, 36 of which it cost me to get the proper cable. GRRR
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
Mr. Crusher, the inventor of the tin can was Peter Durand, who patented the things in 1810. The fact he patented it suggests some entrepeneurial interest, so I think that your assertion that without Capitalism, we would be using the things to record sessions is probably as wrong as your idea that Russia is not capitalist - maybe you cling to the idea that it constitutes the Socialist Utopia, and that Putin is a reincarnation of Trotsky ???
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
I have an iRiver iFP790 (256Mb) and an iRiver iFP899 (1Gb) .
and use both Mac and windows PC.
I find the Mac version of the iRiver 'Music Manager' software actually much easier than the PC version.
e.g. it does simple 'drag and drop' actions - the PC version requires navigation through directories etc.
However, to access the device, it does need the Music Manager software installed.
There is the option of formatting the players as a 'plug and play' USB memory devices, (software available on iRiver's website)
However, they then lose the ability of recording at the very high quality settings normally available - ie mp3 files at up to 320kbps at 44kh.
I think only 92kbps was available when I tried the 'UMS' driver/ firmware - and even that could not always maintain reliable 'glitch free' recording.
The standard iRiver formatting (non-standard USB device) seems to allow the much faster writing of the files in the device.
If you accept the limitation of needing the Music Manager software installed, I find these player /recorders excellent.
Worth getting a decent stereo external mic.(eg Sony ECM-719, or better), the built in one is OK for note taking /learning tunes, (mono, and not great quality). The iRiver input can be set to either mic or line level, and supplies 'phantom power' for mics requiring this.
Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
I have two days to figure this out.
I'm about to travel and wanted an Mp3 player device that records music. I have to get some tunes down from those Durham sessions, you know. There seem to be many of these out there. Unfortunately, I have a Mac. All of the little Mp3 player/recording devices appear to be only compatible with PCs, and only iPods are compatible with Macs. The problem is that iPods don't have built-in microphones -- apparently you have to buy other little gizmos to make them record stuff. Other things like iRivers and Zens do have microphones, but Apple appears to have designed their operating system to only work with iPods. I have acquired a Zen that my Mac doesn't even acknowledge exists when I plug it into the USB port. I know other Mac users who have these (Zina? Pete?), so is there a way to make them compatible?
iRivers theoretically also need a Windows operating system, but one of my piper friends had one that my computer was capable of registering. No one near where I live appears to sell them. Neat.
I really don't want to have to pay for an iPod AND an external microphone setup.
Capitalism sucks, man.
Can anyone help?
# Posted on March 25th 2006 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
You can use most "PC mp3 player" with a Mac, just not with iTunes. It will work like an external disk. Not sure about the ones you mention, but try some googling, I found this: http://www.nomadness.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=829
# Posted on March 25th 2006 by Pontus Adefjord
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
The only iPod that supports high quality recording (stereo, 44kHz) is the current generation (5th generation, the so-called video ipod), and the devices that would let you take advantage of the capability are just starting to come on the market.
Earlier generations support mono recording at low bit rates, and the add-ons to do that aren't too expensive (Griffin iTalk, ≈ $35). The quality is good enough for gettting the tune, but it's not somehting you'd go out of your way to listen to on it;s own.
I haven't really looked at other devices since I bought my iPod a few years back, but it's not the only device you can use for the mac. Both Creative and iRiver make devices that will work with the Mac and play mp3s.
What you can't do is buy music online that will work cross-platform. The DRM format (digitial rights management) used by Napster, Real, etc. isn't supported on the ipod, and likewise ,the DRM that the iTunes music store uses for the songs it sells won't work on the other players
According to the iRiver web site:
T and U series players: No Mac OS support is available.
iFP, N series: Mac OS 10.2 or higher or OS 9.2.2 using iriver Music Manager only.
I'm sure some of the Creative players are also usable with a mac. Depending on the quality of recording you're looking for though, you might be bettter off just buying a voice recorder and transferring the files to your mac later.
If you want high quality recording, look at the Edirol R-1 portable digitial recorder ( ≈ $400 us). It records to flash memory in WAV format, and the files can be transferred via USB to any Mac or PC. The built in stereo mics are supposed to be quite good and people in other discussion forums say they have been very happy with the unit.
If you'e got an ibook or powerbook, another option is to get one of those mics that you can plug directly into a USB port; fire up Garageband and you've got a portable recording studio. I'm partial to the MacMice MicFlex mic and have gotten very good field recordings with it. They're around $40.
http://www.mac-pro.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.209/it.A/id.1896/.f
Contact me if you want to hear some sound samples.
Jeff
# Posted on March 25th 2006 by jeff_willner
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
Yes, there is an evil corporate conspiracy.
They want your money.
# Posted on March 25th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
I have an iRiver H series with a built-in mic that supposedly isn't compatible with the Mac, but I found a workaround. Really, it's only the iRiver's onboard operating system that's partly-incompatible... when I connect it to my powerbook, I have to take out the battery, hold down the select key while pressing the power button so it does an emergency connect. Only then will OSX recognise it as a drive - but then I've access to all recordings and MP3s on the device, and I can upload or download as I wish. Only thing is that once disconnected and rebooted, the iRiver won't incorporate any newly uploaded Mp3s into its user-friendly database - but if I browse its HD manually then I can access them easily enough.
Not as tricky as it sounds. All of which means that I've a great recording unit for my mac. Dunno about the creative Zen, but it's worth checking to see if there's a similar option.
# Posted on March 25th 2006 by Q
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
there are other options as someone pointed out. The 3rd Gen iPOd can be loaded with Linux operating system and you can record from there. There is the Maudio recorder (I've seen it and I want it NOW) as well as the Edirol, but street prices are around $375-ish. Rumors on the street is that there willbe a plug in for the video iPod to record, but its rumor and hear say at the moment.
I personally use a minidisc to capture sound files and port them into my Mac using Amadeus ( shareware, similiar to Audacity).
# Posted on March 25th 2006 by I_Fel
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
A recording device for the new iPods has been announced, but is not yet should (supposedly late spring)
Here's the link
http://www.xtrememac.com/audio/earphones_recorders/micromemo.php
Jeff
# Posted on March 25th 2006 by jeff_willner
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
I've been using the MPIO FY-200 for nearly 3 years with both my iBook and my PC. It has an iTunes plug-in that allows you to view the device directly in that program.
If I were to get another device I'd go for one of the ones out now that records in stereo (like the Olympus DS-2 - not sure about its mac compatability though). There are more and more of these devices out there so you're bound to find something decent enough that will jive with your mac. Amazing what you can get for $100 these days.
The device I have only records in mono - but certainly is high enough quality for recording sessions and workshops and for sending recordings of tunes to the kids that I teach. It's the size of a cigarette lighter and records 10-12 hours or so - truthfully I have come to appreciate these two qualities more than anything with respect to using it for festivals and sessions and classes.
Cheers.
# Posted on March 25th 2006 by _Steph_
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
MPIO appears to have all sorts of goodies now:
http://www.mpio.com/product/index.html
# Posted on March 25th 2006 by _Steph_
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
Post-processing is a breeze as well. The device records in a special .wav format more compressed than .mp3.
I usually just leave the thing going for the duration of a session, (unless there's loads of chatting), upload the files to whichever computer, and then use a program like Audacity to break it up into tune sets. You can cut and paste, drag and drop, and save directly to mp3.
Time to upload is quick via USB2.0.
File sizes are generally speaking ~ .75MB/minute, so if your computer doesn't have alot of muscle you might have some trouble processing a file that's 100-300 MB in size. I've got 1GB RAM in my laptop and it doesn't blink. My iBook has 256MB and loading files that big takes a minute or so.
Time estimate - start with raw .wav recording on device, to finished mp3 track: (time to upload, process, save) - no more than 10-15 minutes. If I had a whole session in one file, it might take me 1/2 hour to cull out tune sets of interest and rip a CD.
Nice feature of iTunes is the ability to convert those compressed .wav (ADPCM) files into .mp3's, (which can also be done as I mentioned by Audacity). 4 years ago I was using an early, low quality version of these nifty flash devices. You couldn't do anything with those files then until you decompressed the file into a normal .wav file - and you had to use the built in converter that came with a program that ran only on PC's. What a pain in the ass. So these unused files got thrown into an archive, and now it's been magic going back to them and unlocking these recordings I never got to study.
Makes me think that just maybe we really will see Walt Disney up and walking around again...
# Posted on March 25th 2006 by _Steph_
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
I'm a sound student and what I use for feild recordings all the time is a portable MD player/recorder, you can pick up a stereo microphone and one of those and you are set, some can be hooked into a computer or you just always plug the output of the MD into the Input of the computer and record on the computer .
-Brian
# Posted on March 25th 2006 by b.smith83
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
My IRiver worked fine with your laptop!
I don't think there is likely to be a problem, but mine is an older version...
# Posted on March 25th 2006 by Nico
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
I can't believe the attitude towards capitalism. Look at the countries that are not capitalistic and tell me about the micro industries. Russia still does not have micro chips! If you want tubes, that's the place. If it weren't for capitalism you would have two tin cans and string between them and you could catch the sound in a paper bag.
Why don't you get an old mintape machine on ebay - with built in mic.
Stonecrusher
# Posted on March 26th 2006 by stonecrusher
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
Uh, yeah, you're taking kvetching and a bit of sarcasm way too seriously. But for the record, capitalism might be the best system we have, but it's not flawless.
Nick,
I know your iRiver worked. However, no one in Colorado seems to sell them and I didn't get my act together early enough to order one online.
Q,
We didn't have to do anything to make Nick's iRiver work with my laptop. We just plugged it into the USB, and it worked.
# Posted on March 26th 2006 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
" I have acquired a Zen that my Mac doesn't even acknowledge exists when I plug it into the USB port. "
The guard around the USB port keeeps the iPod far enough away that it doesn't plug in enough to register. Plug the IPod into into a cable then plug it into the Mac. USB stands for United States Bucks, 36 of which it cost me to get the proper cable. GRRR
# Posted on March 26th 2006 by Owell Mabee
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
Mr. Crusher, the inventor of the tin can was Peter Durand, who patented the things in 1810. The fact he patented it suggests some entrepeneurial interest, so I think that your assertion that without Capitalism, we would be using the things to record sessions is probably as wrong as your idea that Russia is not capitalist - maybe you cling to the idea that it constitutes the Socialist Utopia, and that Putin is a reincarnation of Trotsky ???
# Posted on March 26th 2006 by Ottery
Re: Recording devices, Macs, and the evil corporate conspiracy
I have an iRiver iFP790 (256Mb) and an iRiver iFP899 (1Gb) .
and use both Mac and windows PC.
I find the Mac version of the iRiver 'Music Manager' software actually much easier than the PC version.
e.g. it does simple 'drag and drop' actions - the PC version requires navigation through directories etc.
However, to access the device, it does need the Music Manager software installed.
There is the option of formatting the players as a 'plug and play' USB memory devices, (software available on iRiver's website)
However, they then lose the ability of recording at the very high quality settings normally available - ie mp3 files at up to 320kbps at 44kh.
I think only 92kbps was available when I tried the 'UMS' driver/ firmware - and even that could not always maintain reliable 'glitch free' recording.
The standard iRiver formatting (non-standard USB device) seems to allow the much faster writing of the files in the device.
If you accept the limitation of needing the Music Manager software installed, I find these player /recorders excellent.
Worth getting a decent stereo external mic.(eg Sony ECM-719, or better), the built in one is OK for note taking /learning tunes, (mono, and not great quality). The iRiver input can be set to either mic or line level, and supplies 'phantom power' for mics requiring this.
# Posted on March 27th 2006 by Col Arco