Hello all, I'm an American bass player playing in a trad band, and I am wanting to get to know more about the role of the bass in the music. From what I've heard so far it's mostly root-fifth stuff on beats 1 and 3. I guess what I want to know is, have there been any bassists to go outside this "traditional" mold with trad bass lines, and if so, who?
Actually, like a lot of the accompaniment you hear nowadays, there really is no traditional role for bass in this music--it really isn't part of the Irish tradition. That doesn't mean, however, that you can't contribute, and contribute nicely.
Most of what I have heard from bassists who I have played with(and the left hand of pianists) has been as you describe it--root and fifths stuff, with some walking up and down between roots as the chord changes. I know that Solas and Altan use bassists on their recordings, usually very subtly. You will hear the bass playing very prominently (and very well) on Lunasa albums, and (if you can find them) Broderick albums. I just got a new album on Compass Records from Tony McManus and Alain Gentry (I think it was called Singing Sands or something)--guitar and electric bass, where the bassist does stuff that reminds me of Jaco Pastorius on the old Weather Report jazz albums.
But the more you diverge from the basic stuff, the less traditional you sound--you have to pick the appropriate balance point.
That's about what I figured. I will check out those artist, though. I have heard Lunasa, and I liked what I heard, both as a musician and a bass player (not to say those are mutually exclusive terms, but unfortunately sometimes they seem to be.) Thanks
Another person who has excellent sensabilities and is very inovative on bass in ITM is Paul O'Driscoll. You can find him on fecordings by Josephine Marsh and other Clare based bands like "Moher".
With some exceptions the bass motions seem to be carried by guitars or bouzoukis.
Check out Chico Huff's bass work with Liz Carroll, notably on the cd Lost in the Loop.
Guitarists (in no particular order) Daithi Sproule, Arty McGlynn, Zan McLeod, Flynn Cohen, Junji Shirota, Ged Foley, Tommy Sullivan (with Sliabh Notes, who have some bass players on various of their recordings, too), create low moving lines that are a long way from the piano paradigm.
Bouzoukis often express the bottom lines as well. Michael Holmes' bouzouki in the band Dervish is the lowest instrument in the batch, and Eamon Doorley often plays low lines with Danu.
I often stake out the bottom when I play guitar or bouzouki, just because the main ITM instruments are all in pretty high registers, so there's space down low. But playing with a bass player is great fun, esp. when we can really play together and move around one another.
I haven't heard bassists do the R/5 piano style in sessions, unless they are are bluegrass brethren who don't know the tunes, and they'll do that for a while.
As you might have gathered, bass-ing in ITM is a pretty open field, ripe for some tasteful innovators.
The Chris Norman Ensemble also has an excellent bass player, James Blachly.
Something I've been wondering...when a bass is present, there's usually also a guitar or other chordal instrument present.
Wouldn't bass alone make for good accompaniment?
It has great drone possibilities (especially bowed) and the ability to create modal and harmonically vague underpinnings for the tune. It has good rhythmic capabilities, too.
For inspiration you might also want to check out recordings that include cello. Using cello in traditional Scottish and Irish music is considered innovative today, but the cello was used in traditional music in the 17th-19th centuries, particularly in Scottish dance music. There was less of a classical/traditional divide in Scotland and Ireland in those days.
Vamping a bass apparently goes back several hundred years:
"In 1742, Laurence Whyte wrote: 'In Beahan's days (our Governor for life), John played the Flute, and Billy played the Fife, Some play'd the fiddle, others vamped a base …'" (quoted in Fintan Vallely's The Companion to Irish Traditional Music)
type cello traditional scottish or cello traditional irish to find some web sites that discuss it, and names of some recordings.
my wife, my 15 year old daughter and I went to a John McCusker concert last year and were greatly impressed, not only with John McC (fiddle), and Andy Cutting (melodeon), but with his rhythm section which consisted of a Double Bass player and guitarist. On his CD "Goodnight Ginger" he has three bass players but Kris Drever was the one playing in the concert. I cannot describe how he played but it was brilliant. The players feeling for tradition was tantamount to the success of the music and although innovative he took nothing away from the trad character of the music heard.
For those who might not know, John McC is probably one of the best trad fiddle players in England at present.
In the past I have had a cellist playing with me and that was successful, but then again he knew what he was doing and had plenty of playing experience within tradfolk.
I have to agree with what Al has said. I would also like to add the band Grada of what to listen to. "Singing Sands," is a superb album. Steve says to listen to the Zouk stylings of Danu and Dervish, that is a good idea. Eamon Doorley is one of my fave Zouk players.
Just went to a concert on Saturday evening with the duo Alasdair Fraser (Scots fiddle) and Natalie Haas (cello). They were simply superb. Just the two of them in the old Woodland (California) Opera House. Alasdair made a point of describing the long history of the cello in Scots music, just as Tracie mentioned. Natalie's style was classically driven (at least in her precision), but clearly in keeping with the soul of the music. It was a duo setting, so the bass lines were very busy out of necessity, but one could learn a lot about how to make bass work in this music.
JBassSiegel sez, "...I guess I have some CD's to buy..."
Not that I mind you buying them (certainly not -ours-!! <GG>), but do check the Green Linnet records website, they often have a lot of good stuff that can be downloaded, often for free.
Tintin wrote, "Wouldn't bass alone make for good accompaniment?
It has great drone possibilities (especially bowed)..."
Oh yeah! I like that idea.
I like the cello notion, too. A cellist who can listen and learn by ear is wonderful, a cellist who can improvise is worth a LOT.
I don't know if the CDs have much bass on them, but Old Blind Dogs and Sharon Shannon's band the Woodchoppers both had some electric bass when I saw them perform.
There's also Coolfin by Donal Lunny, lots of bass on that one.
Have a listen to Ewan Vernal (plays with John McCusker, Unusual Suspects, Capercaille, Kate Rusby and as a guest on a number of albums), Kevin Hutchinson (Lunasa among others). Kris Drever is an excellent guitarist as well as double bassist, and can plays in many bands including one of his own, Fine Friday which are (again) thoroughly recommended.
I think John McCusker's guitarist would have been Ian Carr - top class player definately worth listening to (especially for jazzier progressions), he's played on many recordings so should be reasonably easy to find.
As I play bass in my barn-dance band I might venture an opinion here.
I always reckon root and fifth, of the appropriate chords for any passage, plus runs between chords as you change, are a reasonably basis (joke ). However the rhythm is also important. I was amased, some years after the event, to see the The Band's farewell concert movie, where the bass-player, to my way of thinking, stood around as if to say "I'm so great, I'll play a note.....er........now." Almost completely off the beat and lackadaisical. ( Anyone want to disagree with my opinion , please go ahead ). Where the rhythm is of such importance, you really have to be on the beat, or just that minute fraction off to give the bounce that characterises the jig, or the hornpipe. But it's a subtle thing.
Then, you can go mad melodically. I was rehearsing with an irish ceilidh band that didn't get anywhere while I was with them, and the only "gig" we played was a charity event as a 3-piece, accordion, bass, drums. To fill out the spaces I had to be everywhere, and was doing my John Entwhistle thing, all over the fingerboard but the root and fifth on the salient beats. It's fun to do occassionally, but I couldn't manage it while also calling a barn-dance !
JSiegel - This is mostly re-iterating what's already been said, but I'll say it anyway. There are not a lot of bass players really 'in the tradition'. If you were to try and find bass voices in the 'pure drop' stuff, you'd find little more than the drones of the pipes, or the basses of the button accordion (which are usually used sparsely, if at all). But you'd soon develop an inferiority complex or wither away with boredom if you were to spend all your time playing the open D-string. Like stv culchie says, it is the guitars, bouzoukis etc, that carry the basslines in modern traditional music. I was specifically going to mention Arty McGlynn (listen to 'Music at Matt Molloys' to hear what he does purely as a backer, rather than in his studio-based arrangements). You could also draw something from the tight keyboard and guitar arrangements on the Bothy Band's recordings.
Much can be learned from listening to some modern piano accompanists, like Charlie Lennon (who backs his own fiddle playing on his recordings), Geraldine Cotter and John Blake. But avoid those on the old 78 recordings of Michael Coleman, James Morrison etc., as most of them didn't have a clue. Some of the piano backing to Cape Breton fiddle playing, although a little 'in yer face' for my tastes, might be of interest too.
If there is a guitar, bouzouki or other chord intstrument in your band, work closely with them to come up with arrangements - don't necessarily take their chords as gospel. Sometimes jazzy elements work well, sometimes two or three simple chords with a single note on the bass, sometimes long, sustained notes, sometimes more rhythmic playing (even slap bass - why not?). Since the bass doesn't have an established place in tradtional music, there are no 'rules', just good taste and bad taste - and even that's subjective.
I don't have much to add to this 'cause most of what I'd say has already been put down but I'd say that anything with Steve Cooney playing bass (and usually overdubbed guitar as well) is worth listening to. All those other guys are great players for sure but for me nothing surpasses the bass tracks Cooney laid down on the Meitheal album for example. And he was the guy who was on a lot of Sharon Shannon's early stuff, the Sliabh Notes, etc. that someone mentioned earlier. Check him out if you haven't already...oh one more thing check out "Liquid Sunshine" off the Chatterbox album by Mairtin O'Connor-that right there is the finest track I know of with bass in it and it owns big-time!
As Stv says above, it’s a field ripe for experimentation. Hooda thunk forty years ago that we’d have the cool bouzouki and guitar styles that are so well established today? Of course, there’s a bit less to work with in the bass toolkit, but maybe that just leaves more room for the imagination. Whatever that means.
Maybe a glance toward the English folk-rock world can inspire some ideas. Ashley Hutchings, Rick Kemp, et al, played bass under lots of trad tunes. Sure, it was in a rock context, but so what? Take you inspiration wherever you find it.
Huh, it's funny to read all of this, and see that essentially the opinions about the role of the bass in ITM are so varied. And, to a lesser degree, some of the ideas expressed here are things that I've more or less come to on my own, just in terms of being from a funk/rock background, and trying to apply my musical vocabulary to a long-established music. I am looking forward to doing my part to expand and change the way the bass is played in ITM, and I just want to make sure I understand well enough the players and styles that came before me, so as to not get too radical or trample on the traditions and customs of the music. This has all been extremely helpful, I had no idea I'd get such an incredible response from you all. Thanks so much!
Checkout the info on this page: http://www.dervish.ie/seamus.htm
about the guitar player from dervish. He tunes the lower strings on his guitar low like a bass while keeping the higher strings in the guitar register. Of course he tunes everything one half step sharp like the rest of the band (anoying as hell when you want to play along)
I'd definatly recomend listening to them for some cool guitar and bouzouki bass lines.
I assume you're a strings player so why are you complaining about bands like Dervish playing a half-step up? You guys have it the easiest-slap on a capo or tune up...not like us free reeders. However, I broke down and got a half-step Gaillard box recently and I haven't looked back-not only that but I've convinced everyone else in the band I'm presently in to tune up. In any case, don't knock it until you try it-I certainly haven't played concert pitch for a while now. If you haven't figured out by now why some guys like to play sharp I won't bother trying to explain it here or convince you of its merits vs. concert. I'm tired of seeing ppl complain about half-step playing on this site so I had to say my piece-nothing personal.
Back to the bassline subject in this thread...other than Cooney, he doesn't play the same bass but if you want to hear some of the best accompaniment EVER put down on record, listen to any of De Dannan's albums 'cause Alec Finn...gottdamn!!! I don't have to say anything other than the name-others will know what's up as soon as they read it. SO much understated stuff going on that you can listen to the same track countless times and still be picking out stuff you hadn't noticed before-that goes for Frankie and the rest of that band as well but we are talking about accompn't here.
Let us start by saying, "If it sounds good, it is good!"
I noticed early on in this discussion the name of the great god, 'Tradition', was invoked. I have problems with this. The bass isn't TRADITIONAL, but the bouzouki is! Hmmmm. Perhaps someone can give a seminal date for 'tradition'. The first accordion factory was established in 1865. Is the accordion a traditional instrument?
If you are wondering why most bass players use root and fifth, it is because most guitar players use the I IV V style - like country and western. If the tune cannot be accompanied with three chords - no problem! We use them anyway!
If you want to sound good, get youself a melody instrument performer and guitar player - who really knows how to play. Work out interesting changes for tunes and add a musical bass line OR . . . get youself a couple of 'traditional' guitar player and some melody instruments, and bang away at the fastest possible tempo - playing root & fifth. It's the 'hammers-of-hell' approach. Never check to see if the guitar players are using the same chords and the melody instruments are playing exactly the same. For the best possible sound, ten part unison is ideal.
RumRebellion sez, "Checkout the info on this page: http://www.dervish.ie/seamus.htm
about the guitar player from dervish. He tunes the lower strings on his guitar low like a bass while keeping the higher strings in the guitar register."
Most interesting! I heard the band several times before I learned anything about bouzoukis and I found it really frustrating because the guitar was always capo'd up pretty high, so I had to search out the bottom lines. I didn't think that zouks could do that (silly me...), and I was spinning, trying to sort out all that picking and where the bottom was.
The last time I saw them (a couple of years ago in Killarney), it was much clearer to me. Seamus played a 12-string almost the whole time, never capo'd lower than the fourth fret. By then I was familiar <GG> with what sort of low tones a Crump bouzouki can generate.
Bass lines?
Bass lines?
Hello all, I'm an American bass player playing in a trad band, and I am wanting to get to know more about the role of the bass in the music. From what I've heard so far it's mostly root-fifth stuff on beats 1 and 3. I guess what I want to know is, have there been any bassists to go outside this "traditional" mold with trad bass lines, and if so, who?
# Posted on March 22nd 2006 by JSiegel
Re: Bass lines?
Actually, like a lot of the accompaniment you hear nowadays, there really is no traditional role for bass in this music--it really isn't part of the Irish tradition. That doesn't mean, however, that you can't contribute, and contribute nicely.
Most of what I have heard from bassists who I have played with(and the left hand of pianists) has been as you describe it--root and fifths stuff, with some walking up and down between roots as the chord changes. I know that Solas and Altan use bassists on their recordings, usually very subtly. You will hear the bass playing very prominently (and very well) on Lunasa albums, and (if you can find them) Broderick albums. I just got a new album on Compass Records from Tony McManus and Alain Gentry (I think it was called Singing Sands or something)--guitar and electric bass, where the bassist does stuff that reminds me of Jaco Pastorius on the old Weather Report jazz albums.
But the more you diverge from the basic stuff, the less traditional you sound--you have to pick the appropriate balance point.
# Posted on March 22nd 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Bass lines?
That's about what I figured. I will check out those artist, though. I have heard Lunasa, and I liked what I heard, both as a musician and a bass player (not to say those are mutually exclusive terms, but unfortunately sometimes they seem to be.) Thanks
# Posted on March 22nd 2006 by JSiegel
Re: Bass lines?
Another person who has excellent sensabilities and is very inovative on bass in ITM is Paul O'Driscoll. You can find him on fecordings by Josephine Marsh and other Clare based bands like "Moher".
# Posted on March 22nd 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Bass lines?
With some exceptions the bass motions seem to be carried by guitars or bouzoukis.
Check out Chico Huff's bass work with Liz Carroll, notably on the cd Lost in the Loop.
Guitarists (in no particular order) Daithi Sproule, Arty McGlynn, Zan McLeod, Flynn Cohen, Junji Shirota, Ged Foley, Tommy Sullivan (with Sliabh Notes, who have some bass players on various of their recordings, too), create low moving lines that are a long way from the piano paradigm.
Bouzoukis often express the bottom lines as well. Michael Holmes' bouzouki in the band Dervish is the lowest instrument in the batch, and Eamon Doorley often plays low lines with Danu.
I often stake out the bottom when I play guitar or bouzouki, just because the main ITM instruments are all in pretty high registers, so there's space down low. But playing with a bass player is great fun, esp. when we can really play together and move around one another.
I haven't heard bassists do the R/5 piano style in sessions, unless they are are bluegrass brethren who don't know the tunes, and they'll do that for a while.
As you might have gathered, bass-ing in ITM is a pretty open field, ripe for some tasteful innovators.
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on March 22nd 2006 by stv culchie
Re: Bass lines?
That was all very helpful, and I guess I have some CD's to buy
Thanks
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by JSiegel
Re: Bass lines?
The Chris Norman Ensemble also has an excellent bass player, James Blachly.
Something I've been wondering...when a bass is present, there's usually also a guitar or other chordal instrument present.
Wouldn't bass alone make for good accompaniment?
It has great drone possibilities (especially bowed) and the ability to create modal and harmonically vague underpinnings for the tune. It has good rhythmic capabilities, too.
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by mcswiss
Re: Bass lines?
For inspiration you might also want to check out recordings that include cello. Using cello in traditional Scottish and Irish music is considered innovative today, but the cello was used in traditional music in the 17th-19th centuries, particularly in Scottish dance music. There was less of a classical/traditional divide in Scotland and Ireland in those days.
Vamping a bass apparently goes back several hundred years:
"In 1742, Laurence Whyte wrote: 'In Beahan's days (our Governor for life), John played the Flute, and Billy played the Fife, Some play'd the fiddle, others vamped a base …'" (quoted in Fintan Vallely's The Companion to Irish Traditional Music)
type cello traditional scottish or cello traditional irish to find some web sites that discuss it, and names of some recordings.
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by Tracie
Re: Bass lines?
my wife, my 15 year old daughter and I went to a John McCusker concert last year and were greatly impressed, not only with John McC (fiddle), and Andy Cutting (melodeon), but with his rhythm section which consisted of a Double Bass player and guitarist. On his CD "Goodnight Ginger" he has three bass players but Kris Drever was the one playing in the concert. I cannot describe how he played but it was brilliant. The players feeling for tradition was tantamount to the success of the music and although innovative he took nothing away from the trad character of the music heard.
For those who might not know, John McC is probably one of the best trad fiddle players in England at present.
In the past I have had a cellist playing with me and that was successful, but then again he knew what he was doing and had plenty of playing experience within tradfolk.
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by hetty
Re: Bass lines?
I have to agree with what Al has said. I would also like to add the band Grada of what to listen to. "Singing Sands," is a superb album. Steve says to listen to the Zouk stylings of Danu and Dervish, that is a good idea. Eamon Doorley is one of my fave Zouk players.
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by Why Bother?
Re: Bass lines?
Just went to a concert on Saturday evening with the duo Alasdair Fraser (Scots fiddle) and Natalie Haas (cello). They were simply superb. Just the two of them in the old Woodland (California) Opera House. Alasdair made a point of describing the long history of the cello in Scots music, just as Tracie mentioned. Natalie's style was classically driven (at least in her precision), but clearly in keeping with the soul of the music. It was a duo setting, so the bass lines were very busy out of necessity, but one could learn a lot about how to make bass work in this music.
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by highdesertbob
Re: Bass lines?
JBassSiegel sez, "...I guess I have some CD's to buy..."
Not that I mind you buying them (certainly not -ours-!! <GG>), but do check the Green Linnet records website, they often have a lot of good stuff that can be downloaded, often for free.
Tintin wrote, "Wouldn't bass alone make for good accompaniment?
It has great drone possibilities (especially bowed)..."
Oh yeah! I like that idea.
I like the cello notion, too. A cellist who can listen and learn by ear is wonderful, a cellist who can improvise is worth a LOT.
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by stv culchie
Re: Bass lines?
I don't know if the CDs have much bass on them, but Old Blind Dogs and Sharon Shannon's band the Woodchoppers both had some electric bass when I saw them perform.
There's also Coolfin by Donal Lunny, lots of bass on that one.
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by John Galt
Re: Bass lines?
Have a listen to Ewan Vernal (plays with John McCusker, Unusual Suspects, Capercaille, Kate Rusby and as a guest on a number of albums), Kevin Hutchinson (Lunasa among others). Kris Drever is an excellent guitarist as well as double bassist, and can plays in many bands including one of his own, Fine Friday which are (again) thoroughly recommended.
I think John McCusker's guitarist would have been Ian Carr - top class player definately worth listening to (especially for jazzier progressions), he's played on many recordings so should be reasonably easy to find.
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by Andy V
Re: Bass lines?
As I play bass in my barn-dance band I might venture an opinion here.
I always reckon root and fifth, of the appropriate chords for any passage, plus runs between chords as you change, are a reasonably basis (joke ). However the rhythm is also important. I was amased, some years after the event, to see the The Band's farewell concert movie, where the bass-player, to my way of thinking, stood around as if to say "I'm so great, I'll play a note.....er........now." Almost completely off the beat and lackadaisical. ( Anyone want to disagree with my opinion , please go ahead ). Where the rhythm is of such importance, you really have to be on the beat, or just that minute fraction off to give the bounce that characterises the jig, or the hornpipe. But it's a subtle thing.
Then, you can go mad melodically. I was rehearsing with an irish ceilidh band that didn't get anywhere while I was with them, and the only "gig" we played was a charity event as a 3-piece, accordion, bass, drums. To fill out the spaces I had to be everywhere, and was doing my John Entwhistle thing, all over the fingerboard but the root and fifth on the salient beats. It's fun to do occassionally, but I couldn't manage it while also calling a barn-dance !
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Bass lines?
JSiegel - This is mostly re-iterating what's already been said, but I'll say it anyway. There are not a lot of bass players really 'in the tradition'. If you were to try and find bass voices in the 'pure drop' stuff, you'd find little more than the drones of the pipes, or the basses of the button accordion (which are usually used sparsely, if at all). But you'd soon develop an inferiority complex or wither away with boredom if you were to spend all your time playing the open D-string. Like stv culchie says, it is the guitars, bouzoukis etc, that carry the basslines in modern traditional music. I was specifically going to mention Arty McGlynn (listen to 'Music at Matt Molloys' to hear what he does purely as a backer, rather than in his studio-based arrangements). You could also draw something from the tight keyboard and guitar arrangements on the Bothy Band's recordings.
Much can be learned from listening to some modern piano accompanists, like Charlie Lennon (who backs his own fiddle playing on his recordings), Geraldine Cotter and John Blake. But avoid those on the old 78 recordings of Michael Coleman, James Morrison etc., as most of them didn't have a clue. Some of the piano backing to Cape Breton fiddle playing, although a little 'in yer face' for my tastes, might be of interest too.
If there is a guitar, bouzouki or other chord intstrument in your band, work closely with them to come up with arrangements - don't necessarily take their chords as gospel. Sometimes jazzy elements work well, sometimes two or three simple chords with a single note on the bass, sometimes long, sustained notes, sometimes more rhythmic playing (even slap bass - why not?). Since the bass doesn't have an established place in tradtional music, there are no 'rules', just good taste and bad taste - and even that's subjective.
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Bass lines?
I don't have much to add to this 'cause most of what I'd say has already been put down but I'd say that anything with Steve Cooney playing bass (and usually overdubbed guitar as well) is worth listening to. All those other guys are great players for sure but for me nothing surpasses the bass tracks Cooney laid down on the Meitheal album for example. And he was the guy who was on a lot of Sharon Shannon's early stuff, the Sliabh Notes, etc. that someone mentioned earlier. Check him out if you haven't already...oh one more thing check out "Liquid Sunshine" off the Chatterbox album by Mairtin O'Connor-that right there is the finest track I know of with bass in it and it owns big-time!
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by dtb
Re: Bass lines?
As Stv says above, it’s a field ripe for experimentation. Hooda thunk forty years ago that we’d have the cool bouzouki and guitar styles that are so well established today? Of course, there’s a bit less to work with in the bass toolkit, but maybe that just leaves more room for the imagination. Whatever that means.
Maybe a glance toward the English folk-rock world can inspire some ideas. Ashley Hutchings, Rick Kemp, et al, played bass under lots of trad tunes. Sure, it was in a rock context, but so what? Take you inspiration wherever you find it.
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by Bob himself
Re: Bass lines?
Cello has been mentioned--here's a good article on traditonal cello playing, probably with ideas for bass players, too.
http://www.standingstones.com/celloacc.html
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by mcswiss
Re: Bass lines?
Huh, it's funny to read all of this, and see that essentially the opinions about the role of the bass in ITM are so varied. And, to a lesser degree, some of the ideas expressed here are things that I've more or less come to on my own, just in terms of being from a funk/rock background, and trying to apply my musical vocabulary to a long-established music. I am looking forward to doing my part to expand and change the way the bass is played in ITM, and I just want to make sure I understand well enough the players and styles that came before me, so as to not get too radical or trample on the traditions and customs of the music. This has all been extremely helpful, I had no idea I'd get such an incredible response from you all. Thanks so much!
# Posted on March 23rd 2006 by JSiegel
Re: Bass lines?
I have to go with "dtb". Listen to Steve Cooney, the guy's a genius !
# Posted on March 24th 2006 by Strathfoyle
Re: Bass lines?
Checkout the info on this page:
http://www.dervish.ie/seamus.htm
about the guitar player from dervish. He tunes the lower strings on his guitar low like a bass while keeping the higher strings in the guitar register. Of course he tunes everything one half step sharp like the rest of the band (anoying as hell when you want to play along)
I'd definatly recomend listening to them for some cool guitar and bouzouki bass lines.
# Posted on March 24th 2006 by RumRebellion
Re: Bass lines?
RumRebellion,
I assume you're a strings player so why are you complaining about bands like Dervish playing a half-step up? You guys have it the easiest-slap on a capo or tune up...not like us free reeders. However, I broke down and got a half-step Gaillard box recently and I haven't looked back-not only that but I've convinced everyone else in the band I'm presently in to tune up. In any case, don't knock it until you try it-I certainly haven't played concert pitch for a while now. If you haven't figured out by now why some guys like to play sharp I won't bother trying to explain it here or convince you of its merits vs. concert. I'm tired of seeing ppl complain about half-step playing on this site so I had to say my piece-nothing personal.
Back to the bassline subject in this thread...other than Cooney, he doesn't play the same bass but if you want to hear some of the best accompaniment EVER put down on record, listen to any of De Dannan's albums 'cause Alec Finn...gottdamn!!! I don't have to say anything other than the name-others will know what's up as soon as they read it. SO much understated stuff going on that you can listen to the same track countless times and still be picking out stuff you hadn't noticed before-that goes for Frankie and the rest of that band as well but we are talking about accompn't here.
# Posted on March 24th 2006 by dtb
Re: Bass lines?
Oops! I meant to say that Finn DOESN'T play bass rather than "the same bass" but I'm sure you guys knew what I was getting at.
# Posted on March 24th 2006 by dtb
Re: Bass lines?
Let us start by saying, "If it sounds good, it is good!"
I noticed early on in this discussion the name of the great god, 'Tradition', was invoked. I have problems with this. The bass isn't TRADITIONAL, but the bouzouki is! Hmmmm. Perhaps someone can give a seminal date for 'tradition'. The first accordion factory was established in 1865. Is the accordion a traditional instrument?
If you are wondering why most bass players use root and fifth, it is because most guitar players use the I IV V style - like country and western. If the tune cannot be accompanied with three chords - no problem! We use them anyway!
If you want to sound good, get youself a melody instrument performer and guitar player - who really knows how to play. Work out interesting changes for tunes and add a musical bass line OR . . . get youself a couple of 'traditional' guitar player and some melody instruments, and bang away at the fastest possible tempo - playing root & fifth. It's the 'hammers-of-hell' approach. Never check to see if the guitar players are using the same chords and the melody instruments are playing exactly the same. For the best possible sound, ten part unison is ideal.
Stonecrusher
# Posted on March 26th 2006 by stonecrusher
Re: Bass lines?
RumRebellion sez, "Checkout the info on this page:
http://www.dervish.ie/seamus.htm
about the guitar player from dervish. He tunes the lower strings on his guitar low like a bass while keeping the higher strings in the guitar register."
Most interesting! I heard the band several times before I learned anything about bouzoukis and I found it really frustrating because the guitar was always capo'd up pretty high, so I had to search out the bottom lines. I didn't think that zouks could do that (silly me...), and I was spinning, trying to sort out all that picking and where the bottom was.
The last time I saw them (a couple of years ago in Killarney), it was much clearer to me. Seamus played a 12-string almost the whole time, never capo'd lower than the fourth fret. By then I was familiar <GG> with what sort of low tones a Crump bouzouki can generate.
Great band, thanks for the page!
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on March 26th 2006 by stv culchie