Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
I've been trying to play ITM on drop tuned tenor banjo for the past 12 months or so, and although I can turn out a fairly good jig or polka, I come unstuck when I try a reel such as the above at anything above 176 or so.
I am told that reels should be much faster, I must admit that I am getting on a bit at 70 but my head is still together although the old hands aren't perhaps as loose as they used to be.
I've got a decent banjo with a nice fast action.
Any advice?
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
What do you mean by 'drop tuned'? GDAE as opposed to CGDA?
My advice would be to keep playing it at whatever speed you're comfortable with, and keep pushing it a bit at a time. The more you play, the more the patterns get 'programmed' into your nerves and muscles, and the less you need to think about where to put your fingers - so the less likely you are to stumble when you speed up.
Also, so you own a mandolin? It might be slightly controversial to say this, but you can get away with a lot more on a mandolin, being a quieter instrument - it's very difficult to play a banjo quietly. If you try to play along in a session and fluff the odd note, people are less likely to begrudge you - even if they notice, they should at least appreciate that you have the decency not to play a loud instrument. When you can get your tunes up to speed on the mandolin, it shouldn't take long to get used to playing them on the banjo.
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
I think you will find that reels "can be "played (and often are) faster rather than "should be". If you start the reel yourself then a polite session will follow at your tempo.BTW what sort of banjo are you playing.
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
A reputable dealer recently told me that PD banjos are clearly good quality but the high prices reflect the appearence rather than the actual tone/playability etc or words to that effect. Ive seen and heard only one and it was nice but didnt really stand out from any other nice sounding banjo.Im certainly not knocking them - before anyone gets on my case.
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
NEWTY , I actually own a PD carved top mandolin which is in my humble opinion top class for sound and playability, (but not in the least highly decorated).
I know he goes to town on some of his instruments when it comes to decoration but many of the more pricey banjos suffer from this.
I haven't really tried a PD banjo yet, and wouldn't want anything fancy, just good response , action, sustain and the 'right 'sound.
If anyone cares to suggest a good instrument around £1000 to £1500, please do so.
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
tag,
If you have only been playing banjo for about a year, playing a reel at session speed (which is usually 1.5 times faster than it should be played <G>) is probably going to be a difficult task especially if you expect to throw in the ornamentations to boot. I suspect that your problem lies in an inefficient technique.
The real speed merchants like Gerry O'Connor have incredibly efficient and precise technique. No movement occurs that is not absolutely needed, so much so that when you see them play, you are not really sure what they are doing. There are no broad strokes involved, instead very quick short strokes usually coming from the wrist and not the fingers (there is an exception to this.) In addition, they are very relaxed while they play because relaxation means speed.
The speed you seek is really a byproduct of good technique and a lot of practice. If you are struggling, it probably means that you are too tense to play fast and that you are using all of your muscles at the same time with a net result of being slower because the extensor and flexor muscles are firing off at the same time.
Thin picks help (I use a .60 Dunlop nylon) but with good technique you can use almost any pick and achieve the speed you need. The trick is to use the barest minimum of force needed to get good tone.
If you want to achieve good technique, then practice to get good tone from your instrument. Each banjo has a sweet spot for tone which includes pick angle, grip, use of wrist instead of the fingers to make the stroke, and good posture. As you progress, look at other banjo players, especially the well known ones, and compare their style against yours. Are you as relaxed? Is your tone as good as theirs? Does the music just "flow out" or are you forcing the music?
Don't be discouraged, especially by "Drowsy Maggie" which I consider a difficult tune to play well at any speed. Try and find a teacher if possible. Mostly it takes a lot of work to develop a good technique and then a nice style, so you just have a ways to go.
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
Practice with a metronome. The first setting should be the fastest one you can play the tune perfectly at - otherwise you are practicing how to play sloppy. Over a period of time increase the setting. Do not progress until you can play it perfectly at the new increased tempo.
Stonecrusher
Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
I've been trying to play ITM on drop tuned tenor banjo for the past 12 months or so, and although I can turn out a fairly good jig or polka, I come unstuck when I try a reel such as the above at anything above 176 or so.
I am told that reels should be much faster, I must admit that I am getting on a bit at 70 but my head is still together although the old hands aren't perhaps as loose as they used to be.
I've got a decent banjo with a nice fast action.
Any advice?
# Posted on March 19th 2006 by tag
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
What do you mean by 'drop tuned'? GDAE as opposed to CGDA?
My advice would be to keep playing it at whatever speed you're comfortable with, and keep pushing it a bit at a time. The more you play, the more the patterns get 'programmed' into your nerves and muscles, and the less you need to think about where to put your fingers - so the less likely you are to stumble when you speed up.
Also, so you own a mandolin? It might be slightly controversial to say this, but you can get away with a lot more on a mandolin, being a quieter instrument - it's very difficult to play a banjo quietly. If you try to play along in a session and fluff the odd note, people are less likely to begrudge you - even if they notice, they should at least appreciate that you have the decency not to play a loud instrument. When you can get your tunes up to speed on the mandolin, it shouldn't take long to get used to playing them on the banjo.
# Posted on March 19th 2006 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
Yes spoon I do mean GDAE and I do have a mandolin.
# Posted on March 19th 2006 by tag
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
I think you will find that reels "can be "played (and often are) faster rather than "should be". If you start the reel yourself then a polite session will follow at your tempo.BTW what sort of banjo are you playing.
# Posted on March 19th 2006 by Newty
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
I play an Ozark 19 fret Mastertone copy with the resonator removed it's surprisingly good and will have to do until I can afford a Phil Davidson.
# Posted on March 19th 2006 by tag
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
A reputable dealer recently told me that PD banjos are clearly good quality but the high prices reflect the appearence rather than the actual tone/playability etc or words to that effect. Ive seen and heard only one and it was nice but didnt really stand out from any other nice sounding banjo.Im certainly not knocking them - before anyone gets on my case.
# Posted on March 19th 2006 by Newty
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
NEWTY , I actually own a PD carved top mandolin which is in my humble opinion top class for sound and playability, (but not in the least highly decorated).
I know he goes to town on some of his instruments when it comes to decoration but many of the more pricey banjos suffer from this.
I haven't really tried a PD banjo yet, and wouldn't want anything fancy, just good response , action, sustain and the 'right 'sound.
If anyone cares to suggest a good instrument around £1000 to £1500, please do so.
# Posted on March 19th 2006 by tag
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
By the way I was trying to find out how to improve my plectrum speed (Dunlop Delrin 0.71mm) best so far.
# Posted on March 19th 2006 by tag
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
tag,
If you have only been playing banjo for about a year, playing a reel at session speed (which is usually 1.5 times faster than it should be played <G>) is probably going to be a difficult task especially if you expect to throw in the ornamentations to boot. I suspect that your problem lies in an inefficient technique.
The real speed merchants like Gerry O'Connor have incredibly efficient and precise technique. No movement occurs that is not absolutely needed, so much so that when you see them play, you are not really sure what they are doing. There are no broad strokes involved, instead very quick short strokes usually coming from the wrist and not the fingers (there is an exception to this.) In addition, they are very relaxed while they play because relaxation means speed.
The speed you seek is really a byproduct of good technique and a lot of practice. If you are struggling, it probably means that you are too tense to play fast and that you are using all of your muscles at the same time with a net result of being slower because the extensor and flexor muscles are firing off at the same time.
Thin picks help (I use a .60 Dunlop nylon) but with good technique you can use almost any pick and achieve the speed you need. The trick is to use the barest minimum of force needed to get good tone.
If you want to achieve good technique, then practice to get good tone from your instrument. Each banjo has a sweet spot for tone which includes pick angle, grip, use of wrist instead of the fingers to make the stroke, and good posture. As you progress, look at other banjo players, especially the well known ones, and compare their style against yours. Are you as relaxed? Is your tone as good as theirs? Does the music just "flow out" or are you forcing the music?
A good banjo helps, but if you go to the http://www.banjosessions.com site and check the archives, you will see John Carty play a Gold Tone CC-IT (which is the cheapest short necked banjo they make) and achieve a great tone. (http://www.banjosessions.com/aug05/righthand.html)
Don't be discouraged, especially by "Drowsy Maggie" which I consider a difficult tune to play well at any speed. Try and find a teacher if possible. Mostly it takes a lot of work to develop a good technique and then a nice style, so you just have a ways to go.
MIke Keyes
http://banjosessions.com/feb05/sessions.html
# Posted on March 20th 2006 by mikeyes
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
Mikeys
Many thanks for a most useful reply,
Tag
# Posted on March 20th 2006 by tag
Re: Playing Drowsy Maggie up to session speed on banjo
Practice with a metronome. The first setting should be the fastest one you can play the tune perfectly at - otherwise you are practicing how to play sloppy. Over a period of time increase the setting. Do not progress until you can play it perfectly at the new increased tempo.
Stonecrusher
# Posted on March 26th 2006 by stonecrusher