I'm new to the mandolin: When playing single note triplets do you tend to play with the side of your pick or the point and are you parallel to the strings or at an angle Thanks for your help
I'm no great shakes at triplets, but here's something for you: I use a Wegen tricorner pick (TF 1.20mm) that come with a nice pre-belveled edge. I use the point, and hold the pick at a slight angle, down on the side your thumb points to, especially for triplets. Another thing is don't feel you have to get a crisp sound out of every pick stroke; it's more purcissive, and easier to do fast that way. This works for three note triplets as well; skip fretting the middle note, just do the right hand stuff, so the purcissive part comes through.
That said, in a session context, at higher speeds, I tend to drop triplets altogether, and just concetrate on getting good rhythm and bounce.
Hope this helps...
Oh, and here's the URL for Wegen Picks (they're great):
Well , I'm pretty new to it too . I think that although it's easier playing those triplets at an angle , it makes the sound less bright and you should keep the pick parallel and play with the point all the time , whether it's mandolin or another string instrument.
Well my triplets are nothing short of fabulous, so let me tell you that relaxing your grip a little in order not to get "stuck" in the strings when you play your tripelletto is the key to playing fast and groovy. You don't have to change your pick angle, I mean how much time do you think you have?
I've also heard it said that keeping the pick parallel to the strings will give you a louder sound. But always with the point.
The relaxing bit is just something that comes with time and practice, like most of this technical stuff. Start by playing it slow and right and it will gradually speed up. Keep playing it wrong and you end up "learning your mistakes ".
You mean that i can play with the point of my pick too?!?!
hee hee, mostly i avoid triplets, save when i am playing alone where no one can be hurt by my pick flying off in random directions. (happened only once) Good thing is though that i tend to just try to keep up with every one else, and pray to the musical Gods that i hit the right note. Like what was posted earlier, the "technical stuff" will come in time.
Ravyn, I've been playing Mandolin for over thirty years & I don't think I've ever sent "my pick flying off in random directions". Could this be to do with the way you are holding the little devil?
I have only a tiny % of the little brute protruding from below my thumb & finger, so it has no chance of escape!
When my hand is very sweaty, I have found the pick rotate a little, but if that happens, I just wait for a spot in the tune where I can miss out a note, & then I adjust my grip & carry on.
From my upcoming book "The Lazy Man's guide to Mandolin Playing:" (30 years in the writing)
I have a special technique for triplets, where I just leave them out. I call them "skiplets". Try it, you'll be so glad you did.
Careful Bren, or you'll have all ITMs leaving out triplets, then grace notes of any kind, then lift, then drive, then style, then taste - & pretty soon we'll all just be playing bare bones music like these folk: http://www.barebonesmorris.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm
Haven't seen anyone suggesting pull-offs as a solution. Depends of course which notes are to be fretted and which are open strings, but these can and do work, in some cases. I understand PO's might not provide enough volume to compensate for the piano accordian sitting across the table, but hey, if you really wanted to be heard, then the mando shouldn't have been your instrument. Having said that, I find myself varying the angle of pick attack a lot as I play. My well-worn plectrums look like I have taken sandpaper to what must be the leading edge. Dave Grisman swears by rather fat picks with no point whatsoever, just a round side. While he gets a very distinctive sound in his music, it isn't this music; it's that DAWG thing he created.
So maybe there's no wrong way to do it, provided your technique doesn't keep you from improving your expression and speed.
Keith, after following your link, I popped into my favorite guitar shop yesterday and picked up a four-pack of Wegen picks (for fifteen bucks!). I got the bluegrass picks, but don’t tell anybody. I compared the Wegen with the Dunlop 1.0 mm nylon I’ve been using for about twenty-five years and I could immediately see some benefit in my triplets. It’ll take a while to see if it replaces the Dunlop, but I like it so far.
My Dunlops are pretty stiff, but they flex ever so slightly. The Wegens don’t flex even a little, but they also don’t have that hard clanky sound and feel that I’ve always associated with the stiffest picks. I don’t know what the plastic material is, but the surface isn’t noisy like most stiff picks.
Is there any documentary evidence on how long the Wegens last?
Yep - they're not cheap, but I don't really lose them too often. My mandolin mentor uses a white Clayton tricorner of about the same thickness, and will use one pick for years. She's a pretty aggressive picker, and they end up with beveled edges just like the Wegens. I've tried beveling other picks in Wegen fashion, but always come back to it. I've had the one I use for at least two years - it seems fine still.
I ahve played the same Wegen for about 5 years with virtually no damage to it. According the the mandolincafe threads, Wegens will last forever as long as you don't lose them. If you get the white ones and don't play on the snow or white sand, you should not lose them when you drop them. For some reason all of the other picks I own are the same color as the carpets at the venues I play. I don't understand how that works, buy it happens everywhere.
Mike, I can access your triplet movie's, including Mick Moloney's, OK (thanks) but all I get is a question mark when I click on Dan Beimborn's link? Anyone else having problems with that link?
Am I missing software or does it just not like Macs?
I get an mpg page with that link, but it doesn't play either...I believe Dan's videos do require a software download; look at the NEWS section of his webpage:
There's a link to the software and to some video tracks. I confess I haven't taken the time to do this yet myself, but Dan often posts links to some videos in the context of discussion on mandolincafe.com
I only use white Sharkfins. The usual plastic Dunlops etc start to tear after only a few minutes - won't get through a set of reels never mind a gig / session. I've never tried Wegens or Claytons, but I don't like these very stiff things the Americans seem to use.
Sharkfins have an unusual shape, and I use the point. They seem to me to have the right blend of stiffness and flexibity.
A Question for mandolin players
A Question for mandolin players
I'm new to the mandolin: When playing single note triplets do you tend to play with the side of your pick or the point and are you parallel to the strings or at an angle Thanks for your help
# Posted on March 11th 2006 by dorian
Re: A Question for mandolin players
dorian,
I'm no great shakes at triplets, but here's something for you: I use a Wegen tricorner pick (TF 1.20mm) that come with a nice pre-belveled edge. I use the point, and hold the pick at a slight angle, down on the side your thumb points to, especially for triplets. Another thing is don't feel you have to get a crisp sound out of every pick stroke; it's more purcissive, and easier to do fast that way. This works for three note triplets as well; skip fretting the middle note, just do the right hand stuff, so the purcissive part comes through.
That said, in a session context, at higher speeds, I tend to drop triplets altogether, and just concetrate on getting good rhythm and bounce.
Hope this helps...
Oh, and here's the URL for Wegen Picks (they're great):
http://www.wegenpicks.com/
# Posted on March 11th 2006 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Well , I'm pretty new to it too . I think that although it's easier playing those triplets at an angle , it makes the sound less bright and you should keep the pick parallel and play with the point all the time , whether it's mandolin or another string instrument.
# Posted on March 11th 2006 by manjo
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Well my triplets are nothing short of fabulous, so let me tell you that relaxing your grip a little in order not to get "stuck" in the strings when you play your tripelletto is the key to playing fast and groovy. You don't have to change your pick angle, I mean how much time do you think you have?
# Posted on March 11th 2006 by Cammy
Re: A Question for mandolin players
What are you holding your pick parallel to? I find *perpendicular* to the string works best.
As for triplets, Cammy is right. Loosen up and concentrate on the rhythm. First you get good, then you get fast.
# Posted on March 11th 2006 by Charmion
Re: A Question for mandolin players
I've also heard it said that keeping the pick parallel to the strings will give you a louder sound. But always with the point.
The relaxing bit is just something that comes with time and practice, like most of this technical stuff. Start by playing it slow and right and it will gradually speed up. Keep playing it wrong and you end up "learning your mistakes ".
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: A Question for mandolin players
You mean that i can play with the point of my pick too?!?!
hee hee, mostly i avoid triplets, save when i am playing alone where no one can be hurt by my pick flying off in random directions. (happened only once) Good thing is though that i tend to just try to keep up with every one else, and pray to the musical Gods that i hit the right note. Like what was posted earlier, the "technical stuff" will come in time.
ravyn
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Ravyn
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Ravyn, I've been playing Mandolin for over thirty years & I don't think I've ever sent "my pick flying off in random directions". Could this be to do with the way you are holding the little devil?
I have only a tiny % of the little brute protruding from below my thumb & finger, so it has no chance of escape!
When my hand is very sweaty, I have found the pick rotate a little, but if that happens, I just wait for a spot in the tune where I can miss out a note, & then I adjust my grip & carry on.
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: A Question for mandolin players
From my upcoming book "The Lazy Man's guide to Mandolin Playing:" (30 years in the writing)
I have a special technique for triplets, where I just leave them out. I call them "skiplets". Try it, you'll be so glad you did.
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Bren
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Careful Bren, or you'll have all ITMs leaving out triplets, then grace notes of any kind, then lift, then drive, then style, then taste - & pretty soon we'll all just be playing bare bones music like these folk:
http://www.barebonesmorris.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Just funnin' all ye Maurice Men!
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Less is more Ptarmigan. Or least is Morris?
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Bren
Re: A Question for mandolin players
I actually find thinner picks(.60) easier to do triplets with.
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by ecidralla
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Yeah PJA, .60s are my weapons of choice, too! I don't particularly like the hard sound you get from a heavy pick & this particular one just scratches my scratch plate just a little too much:
http://www.ixitxachitls.net/BaseItems/files/BaseItems/Heavy%20Pick/WTC%2017524.png
Here’s one guys thoughts on heavy & light picks - for the guitar:
http://www.theguitarfiles.com/modules.php?name=AvantGo&file=print&sid=55
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Ptarmigandolin, if you'll just dip the grip of that pick in liquid rubber and let it set overnight, it'll never slip again.
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Hi dorian--
Haven't seen anyone suggesting pull-offs as a solution. Depends of course which notes are to be fretted and which are open strings, but these can and do work, in some cases. I understand PO's might not provide enough volume to compensate for the piano accordian sitting across the table, but hey, if you really wanted to be heard, then the mando shouldn't have been your instrument. Having said that, I find myself varying the angle of pick attack a lot as I play. My well-worn plectrums look like I have taken sandpaper to what must be the leading edge. Dave Grisman swears by rather fat picks with no point whatsoever, just a round side. While he gets a very distinctive sound in his music, it isn't this music; it's that DAWG thing he created.
So maybe there's no wrong way to do it, provided your technique doesn't keep you from improving your expression and speed.
--Bob
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by highdesertbob
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Keith, after following your link, I popped into my favorite guitar shop yesterday and picked up a four-pack of Wegen picks (for fifteen bucks!). I got the bluegrass picks, but don’t tell anybody. I compared the Wegen with the Dunlop 1.0 mm nylon I’ve been using for about twenty-five years and I could immediately see some benefit in my triplets. It’ll take a while to see if it replaces the Dunlop, but I like it so far.
My Dunlops are pretty stiff, but they flex ever so slightly. The Wegens don’t flex even a little, but they also don’t have that hard clanky sound and feel that I’ve always associated with the stiffest picks. I don’t know what the plastic material is, but the surface isn’t noisy like most stiff picks.
Is there any documentary evidence on how long the Wegens last?
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Yep - they're not cheap, but I don't really lose them too often. My mandolin mentor uses a white Clayton tricorner of about the same thickness, and will use one pick for years. She's a pretty aggressive picker, and they end up with beveled edges just like the Wegens. I've tried beveling other picks in Wegen fashion, but always come back to it. I've had the one I use for at least two years - it seems fine still.
# Posted on March 13th 2006 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Bob,
I ahve played the same Wegen for about 5 years with virtually no damage to it. According the the mandolincafe threads, Wegens will last forever as long as you don't lose them. If you get the white ones and don't play on the snow or white sand, you should not lose them when you drop them. For some reason all of the other picks I own are the same color as the carpets at the venues I play. I don't understand how that works, buy it happens everywhere.
As for triplets, you might check out Dan Beimborn at http://www.celticmusic.com/dan/technique.html
where he has a nice video showing the triplet technique. Also check out http://www.banjosessions.com/dec05/triplets.html for another view.
Mike Keyes
http:www.banjosessions.com/feb06/sessions.html
# Posted on March 13th 2006 by mikeyes
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Mike, I can access your triplet movie's, including Mick Moloney's, OK (thanks) but all I get is a question mark when I click on Dan Beimborn's link? Anyone else having problems with that link?
Am I missing software or does it just not like Macs?
# Posted on March 13th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: A Question for mandolin players
I get an mpg page with that link, but it doesn't play either...I believe Dan's videos do require a software download; look at the NEWS section of his webpage:
http://www.celticmusic.com/dan/news.html
There's a link to the software and to some video tracks. I confess I haven't taken the time to do this yet myself, but Dan often posts links to some videos in the context of discussion on mandolincafe.com
# Posted on March 13th 2006 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: A Question for mandolin players
Thanks Keith. Strange but that video clip on the News page works fine for me but not tother one?
# Posted on March 13th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: A Question for mandolin players
I only use white Sharkfins. The usual plastic Dunlops etc start to tear after only a few minutes - won't get through a set of reels never mind a gig / session. I've never tried Wegens or Claytons, but I don't like these very stiff things the Americans seem to use.
Sharkfins have an unusual shape, and I use the point. They seem to me to have the right blend of stiffness and flexibity.
Dagger.
# Posted on March 14th 2006 by CWGordon