Hi. Once again, I'm looking for a bit of a shortcut into my understanding of reels and music in general.
I'm still very much a beginner (6 months on?! I get the feeling that 10 years down the road I'll still be calling myself a beginner. Maybe it isn't false modesty after all so I've mostly stayed away from reels until now. One of my favorite phrases as a listener is the fairly common "phrase with a basenote", like G2 BG dGBG. I always hear them as G2 B2 d2 B2 unless I'm really concentrating hard. Slowing down and concentration has revealed that except in the case of a few (I don't know whether they're doing it because it's nice as well or because they don't know better), these phrases actually all do have a basenote.
Anyway. My problem is that I can't play them like I hear them on my tinwhistle. The basenote is always prominent enough that I am perfectly aware that it is there withough concentrating. How are they actually given backstage? I've tried tonguing on the non-basenotes, making them louder, making them longer and attracting attention with cuts (something I still find very tricky at "tempo", which is why I'm still staying away from reels)
(which reminds me. Playing slowly doesn't make much difference to me. The increased "available time" just makes it more obvious when I don't play in correct rhythm. So it helps for learning to play in rhythm when I later try to play up to speed, but otherwise doesn't make things any easier - is this a common occurrence?)
How do you guys "visualise/hear/play" those phrases?
Tirno - Part of the solution is just to keep playing your instrument until you know it so well that you can make it do anything you want it to do. But that said, I've been playing whistle for about 12 years and I couldn't even see that point with a radio telescope.
However, I can offer a couple of small suggestions. In a phrase like G2BG dGBG, I usually *tongue the G* (the 'pedal note', as classical musicians will call it), not the other notes. This, in effect, slightly shortens the Gs, while the longer Bs and d distract the listener's attention from them.
Another trick is to slip a transitory A in between the B and the G, making a descending triplet, thus:
G2 (3BAG dG (3BAG
This is probably most effective if it is not used thoughout the tune, but just as an ornament.
But a large part of it is learning to control your breath, so that you can accent the notes you want with an increase in breath pressure. This is particularly difficult on the whistle, as there is such a narrow margin of breath pressure within which you can get a clear and true note.
I hope I have been at least as encouraging as I have discouraging.
The G2BG dGBG phrase is one of my favourites for playing - I like to roll the G2 , then follow with the same as spoon says, like
~G2 (3BAG dG(3BAG
But at the end of the day, as most others will probably say too, it's "practice, practice, practice".
If one particular phrase isn't coming right, work on something else for a while and go back to the awkward one later on.
Sorry, I posted before I'd finished.
When it comes to visualising the phrases, try the first part of the flute lesson (which works for whistle too) at http://www.kaled.org.uk/flutelesson/
It has some good bits about how tunes are put together, and the tune used (Sean Reid's) starts with a very similar phrase to the one mentioned in your post.
What worked for me is having the "perfect sound" in my head and just play the phrase again and again. Somehow my playing got closer to that sound after a while (I taped myself to make sure it wasn't just my imagination...) But that's not much help I suppose...
What I think I'm actually doing is shortening those "jumping notes" - so the base note sounds like a continuous drone that doesn't seem to be interrupted by the short notes. A bit like two whistles playing together - one playing the drone the other playing the run "B d B". Just try everything that you can think of at different speeds and tape yourself - it might sound different when you listen back to it!
Are you sure that it's Sean Reid's that has that phrase? I thought it was the Knotted Cord, which has G2 BG DGBG, with many players shoving the D up into the second octave. Those recordings are brilliant and I have listened to them many time.
On the other hand, I've been working on a tune which features the phrase prominently and it appears that Spoon is right. It's a question of fiddling about with the whistle until you find something that sounds right and then repeating the way you did it. I couldn't teach someone else to do it, but I've reached the beginning of the sound I'm aiming for (thanks for the tip on tonguing the pedal note).
www.tirno.com/gregsorry.mp3 (about 20 seconds in for those whose ears start to bleed through the poor playing)
Sounds like quite a nice tune, it'd make a good reel or hornpipe. What's it called?
Yes, I completely forgot the Knotted Cord has that phrase, (probably as it's in the B part!). Sean Reid's just starts off with something similar to it.
Oh yes, and you might want to try emphasising the join between the bars, with a small pause, toungue or cut where I put the * like this:
G2BG dGBG * G2BG AcBA
Or even shorten the second G2 to a G, which keeps the tune bouncing nicely and gives you a handy point to snatch a breath:
G2BG dGBG | G*BG AcBA
On your recording, it's coming out as one long note, like
G2BG cGBG3BG AcBA
G2 BG dGBG bits in reels
G2 BG dGBG bits in reels
Hi. Once again, I'm looking for a bit of a shortcut into my understanding of reels and music in general.
I'm still very much a beginner (6 months on?! I get the feeling that 10 years down the road I'll still be calling myself a beginner. Maybe it isn't false modesty after all
so I've mostly stayed away from reels until now. One of my favorite phrases as a listener is the fairly common "phrase with a basenote", like G2 BG dGBG. I always hear them as G2 B2 d2 B2 unless I'm really concentrating hard. Slowing down and concentration has revealed that except in the case of a few (I don't know whether they're doing it because it's nice as well or because they don't know better), these phrases actually all do have a basenote.
Anyway. My problem is that I can't play them like I hear them on my tinwhistle. The basenote is always prominent enough that I am perfectly aware that it is there withough concentrating. How are they actually given backstage? I've tried tonguing on the non-basenotes, making them louder, making them longer and attracting attention with cuts (something I still find very tricky at "tempo", which is why I'm still staying away from reels)
(which reminds me. Playing slowly doesn't make much difference to me. The increased "available time" just makes it more obvious when I don't play in correct rhythm. So it helps for learning to play in rhythm when I later try to play up to speed, but otherwise doesn't make things any easier - is this a common occurrence?)
How do you guys "visualise/hear/play" those phrases?
# Posted on March 11th 2006 by Tirno
Re: G2 BG dGBG bits in reels
Tirno - Part of the solution is just to keep playing your instrument until you know it so well that you can make it do anything you want it to do. But that said, I've been playing whistle for about 12 years and I couldn't even see that point with a radio telescope.
However, I can offer a couple of small suggestions. In a phrase like G2BG dGBG, I usually *tongue the G* (the 'pedal note', as classical musicians will call it), not the other notes. This, in effect, slightly shortens the Gs, while the longer Bs and d distract the listener's attention from them.
Another trick is to slip a transitory A in between the B and the G, making a descending triplet, thus:
G2 (3BAG dG (3BAG
This is probably most effective if it is not used thoughout the tune, but just as an ornament.
But a large part of it is learning to control your breath, so that you can accent the notes you want with an increase in breath pressure. This is particularly difficult on the whistle, as there is such a narrow margin of breath pressure within which you can get a clear and true note.
I hope I have been at least as encouraging as I have discouraging.
# Posted on March 11th 2006 by granama
Re: G2 BG dGBG bits in reels
The G2BG dGBG phrase is one of my favourites for playing - I like to roll the G2 , then follow with the same as spoon says, like
~G2 (3BAG dG(3BAG
But at the end of the day, as most others will probably say too, it's "practice, practice, practice".
If one particular phrase isn't coming right, work on something else for a while and go back to the awkward one later on.
# Posted on March 11th 2006 by Wurzel
Re: G2 BG dGBG bits in reels
Sorry, I posted before I'd finished.
When it comes to visualising the phrases, try the first part of the flute lesson (which works for whistle too) at http://www.kaled.org.uk/flutelesson/
It has some good bits about how tunes are put together, and the tune used (Sean Reid's) starts with a very similar phrase to the one mentioned in your post.
# Posted on March 11th 2006 by Wurzel
Re: G2 BG dGBG bits in reels
What worked for me is having the "perfect sound" in my head and just play the phrase again and again. Somehow my playing got closer to that sound after a while (I taped myself to make sure it wasn't just my imagination...) But that's not much help I suppose...
What I think I'm actually doing is shortening those "jumping notes" - so the base note sounds like a continuous drone that doesn't seem to be interrupted by the short notes. A bit like two whistles playing together - one playing the drone the other playing the run "B d B". Just try everything that you can think of at different speeds and tape yourself - it might sound different when you listen back to it!
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Irina
Re: G2 BG dGBG bits in reels
Are you sure that it's Sean Reid's that has that phrase? I thought it was the Knotted Cord, which has G2 BG DGBG, with many players shoving the D up into the second octave. Those recordings are brilliant and I have listened to them many time.
On the other hand, I've been working on a tune which features the phrase prominently and it appears that Spoon is right. It's a question of fiddling about with the whistle until you find something that sounds right and then repeating the way you did it. I couldn't teach someone else to do it, but I've reached the beginning of the sound I'm aiming for (thanks for the tip on tonguing the pedal note).
www.tirno.com/gregsorry.mp3 (about 20 seconds in for those whose ears start to bleed through the poor playing)
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Tirno
Re: G2 BG dGBG bits in reels
Sounds like quite a nice tune, it'd make a good reel or hornpipe. What's it called?
Yes, I completely forgot the Knotted Cord has that phrase, (probably as it's in the B part!). Sean Reid's just starts off with something similar to it.
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Wurzel
Re: G2 BG dGBG bits in reels
Oh yes, and you might want to try emphasising the join between the bars, with a small pause, toungue or cut where I put the * like this:
G2BG dGBG * G2BG AcBA
Or even shorten the second G2 to a G, which keeps the tune bouncing nicely and gives you a handy point to snatch a breath:
G2BG dGBG | G*BG AcBA
On your recording, it's coming out as one long note, like
G2BG cGBG3BG AcBA
Hope that helps some, stick with it!
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by Wurzel