I was wondering the same thing. I was told that if you are going to spend under $500 for a bow, you will get a better bow for the money with a composite hybrid bow. I have not tested that theory personally though.
Of course, the relative "indestructibility" can be an appealing feature all by itself!!
I've been using a Coda Classic composite bow for over a year now and really like it. I paid about $700 US for it and it easily holds it's own against several pernambuco bows I have in the $1,500 to $3,000 range. It's stable, powerful, well balanced, and responsive. I also like being able to rap on empty pint glasses to get everyone's attention at last call, and not worry about cracking the tip.
I would recommend test flying several different bows, even if you settle on a particular brand or model. I tried five Coda Classics before I found one I really liked--you can specify what weight you want within a range from around 59 grams up to 62 grams or so. Most of the weight difference is due to varying density in the ebony frogs, so balance is also affected, and I found significant differences in how the bows felt. Also, one Coda bow came with overly long hair--fixable, but I wouldn't want to have to rehair a brand new bow when you can get one set up correctly in the first place.
Also, if you're serious and want the best, you can get a really terrific bow from Neil Burke for around $3,000 US. That may sound like a lot, but many high-end bows go for double that amount these days.
cor blimy!
i never thought you could pay that much for a bow. dont know that much about them. one of my friends had a guitar with a carbon neck, he didnt like it as he found it cold. bit picky that, but if you play alot then it cud get on your nerves.
my only advice is make sure you try it out first!!!
all the best
briggfoot
I have both a coda classic and a glaser composite. They are very close in feel and action. The glaser cost about a third of the coda. Coda is also making several cheaper grades for the lower end market. I too have been told that at the low end of the market, carbon fiber/composite bows out perform wood. For really cheap, a glaser fiberglass bow with real hair runs about $50 new. All the sword fighting symphony kids use them.
I'm trying out a Coda Classic right now and I really like it. It's a very quick, responsive bow. I was getting a sore bowing shoulder from long sessions with my penambuco bow and the composite seems to have helped that problem. I think you would be lucky to find a wood bow in that price range (700) that felt as nice.
In Peter Cooper's Fiddling Book, there is a photo of Padraig O'Keefe from the late 1950s. In his hands he holds a pint glass (half empty), his fiddle and perhaps the worst looking bow I've ever seen. There is some sort of makeshift gizmo that attaches the hair to the bow tip. The distance from the hair to the stick (at the tip must have been over 2 inches! And yet he managed quite well. We mere mortals need every advantage we can get to even approach the brilliance of those masters.
Well, I have to say, I like my Coda Colours so much that I rehair it as soon as it needs it even though I have 3 other perfectly good well balanced bows in reserve. I don't know how I ever managed to play well before that. I know that I didn't even have a clue what a well balanced incredibly responsive bow could do. Perhaps I should have a garage sale on my other bows.
About those Glasser Carbon Fiber Bow's. They sound to good to be true. I'll check one out. In the meantime. CODA all the way - I'm going to buy a second unless the Glassers pan out.
Dunno. A bowmaker of my acquaintance had me try a bunch of different bows, including the composite, and wouldn't tell me which were which when I was trying them. I picked wood, and expensive wood at that, every time. He says he's come to the conclusion that unless you're needing a bow for wet and foggy conditions, wood is still better than the composites.
But then, he makes the things, so what else would he say?
So now I'm playing with a bow I bought from Mike Dugger -- French style Japanese bow...and it's made for a lot of improvement. I did try the composite bows, thinking that they'd do the same, but they weren't quite there.
I've seen that picture, it's a classic. I remember reading that his bow was either a bass or cello bow, the frog broke & somehow he rigged a cork (I think from a bottle of porter) as a makeshift frog. When asked about it he said, "Ah, vanity!"... I don't have a Coda-bow but I've tried them & I think they're great, I've also tried some cheaper composite bows that worked well too.
Yipes! Some of those Coda's cost more than both my fiddles combined! Mark, I'd love to get a test drive on the Coda! *please*
Kinda hard to imagine spending the better part of a grand for stick of wood and some hair, don't ya think? On the other hand if the bow starts sawing away and I start to sound like a master fiddler, l'll gladly shell out double the price!
Just for some perspective from the other end of the scale. Not too long ago I was in a big US city and went to one of the premier violin shops just to test drive their inventory. After playing a few "low-end" fiddles in the $6,000 to $10,000 US range, ended up being handed a $20,000 violin. They saw my Coda bow and brought in a bow case. "Try this one," the guru said. Nice clean pernambuco bow, nothing spectacular to look at (no ivory frog or gold-plated fittings, just a "normal" bow), but felt like air in my hand and played like an extension of my nerve synapses. The price tag was in the case: $25,000. Oh well.
Also, to clarify my earlier post: I didn't pay $1,500 to $3,000 for my pernambuco bows, but that's what they appraise at now. The more valuable one I inherited from my great aunt, who played with it 100 years ago, but at 57.8 grams it's a little too light for my tastes. Modelled after the French maker Lupot's work, it's beautifully balanced, but hard to power through in a loud session.
I think of my Coda as a reliable workhorse that can run like a thoroughbred when asked.
What criteria do the rest of you use to tell if a bow is a good bow? Is "it just feels good" enough? Maybe. Objectively, I like a bow that feels like it's almost part of the string, not too bouncy. For example, when you get done with a bowing triplet, the following note is right there, nice and clean, without a recovery period on the bow's part that makes the following note difficult. And then there's the tone question. Some people think the composites lack a sense of warmth. Myself, I don't hear that.
Sorry everyone! I didn't mean to "shout" at you with my upper case letters. I'm new at all this chat room stuff so please accept my aplogies for recent entries.
I've never dared to try a fiddle over $4000, Will, for fear of spending the rest of my life pining after it! Same with the bows.
My local violin repair shop once had me try a $4000 Russian fiddle. My god. I couldn't believe the difference between my own fiddle and that thing -- my own is a rather nice school model, good measurements, nice tone, good sound, nothing to write home about but certainly adequate, but the Russian fiddle made it sound comparatively like a cigar box with strings.
Will once posted that if you wanted to make the most difference and get the most bang for your buck, to get a good bow. I went, yeah, yeah, right, of course that's true and blithely went on my way with my student grade bow. Then Mike Dugger told me I needed to buy his bow, and suddenly everyone was telling me that obviously I'd been working very hard because I'd improved so much recently.
Pat, you've raised a good question, one that puzzled me for years. Selecting a good bow is a bit of a Catch-22 if you're not an experienced player and already know what you're looking for. A "beginner" wants the best bow s/he can afford, one that will help and not hinder progress, but it's darn difficult to know what a good bow feels like until you've played for years, can do all sorts of bow techniques that most beginners aren't familiar with, and have played more than a handful of different bows. So if your bow technique is still in its formative years, you won't know what bow will work for you as a more advanced player. Bow choice is also highly subjective and personal, so it's risky to ask a better player to pick one out for you (although this may be the best option for some).
There are a few objective criteria to at least separate "bad" bows from "good" ones.
1. Check the stick to make sure it's not warped right or left. It should run straight from frog to tip.
2. Make sure there are no cracks or repaired breaks in the stick. A good repair job can salvage a bow, but with so many clean sticks available, why buy one that's already been through the chipper?
3. Just above the frog, look at the wrapping--the so-called "grip." These are easy to repair if they're coming undone or worn, but you should look for one in good condition, made of a material you like. Some people apparently like the feel of wire or plastic cord wound around the grip (shudder), others prefer smooth leather or similar padding. Realize that the grip can be applied at different distnaces from the frog, and in different lengths and thicknesses.
4. Unscrew the frog to make sure the mechanism works easily and check the threads on the screw to see that the threads are not stripped. The base of the frog should fit snugly against the stick when the hair is at playing tension.
5. Check the hair to make sure it's full and flat. Rehairing isn't expensive, but you can't really test a bow unless the hair is in good shape and properly attached. It should fill the holder in the frog and the face of the hair (the side that rests on the strings) should be flat, not twisted or thicker on one side than another. In my book, there's no substitute for real horse hair (the synthetic stuff just doesn't hold rosin as well).
6. Put tension on the hair and watch how the stick responds. You want to leave some longitudinal curve in the stick with the hair tight enough to allow heavy pressure on the strings without the hair touching the stick. Sometimes bows are poorly rehaired--the hair is too long or too short--and this makes the bow bouncy or mushy or otherwise play below its potential.
7. Play some long bow strokes on a fiddle, running from frog to tip and back. (Okay, in the beginning I know we all wonder "how much tension is right?" and "how do you keep the bow from bouncing and skidding all over on these long strokes?" and all I can say is to play, play, play. The more you do it, the more you'll know.If in doubt, ask an experienced player to help.)The bow shouldn't feel bouncy; it should be easy to keep the hair on the string, with little or no bounce coming through the stick.
8. Most reputable violin bows weigh between 59 and 62 grams. Anything too far outside these parameters would make me suspicious. Also, most handmade bows are stamped with the maker's name, either on the side of the stick by the frog, or sometimes under the frog (unscrew it to look). Sometimes there are initials on the flat face of the tip. More and more factory bows are coming with exotic names stamped on the stick, so this isn't a guarantee of quality. And some makers stamp a famous name on the stick--I have a very nice bow stamped "Lupot" and it's clearly a copy of bows made by Nicholas Lupot a French maker from the early 1800s. Mine is apparently a mid to late 1800s German copy--a great bow made by talented hands, but a copy nonetheless. If it were genuine, it would be worth $7,000 or more.
9. Within the above weight range, bows range all over the place in how they're balanced. Some are frog heavy, some are tip heavy, and some are neutral. Different players prefer different balance points. Try different bows and see what feels good to you. Many people start out liking tip heavy bows and gradually move toward a more neutral bow. Try lots of different bows (even after you find one you like), and bear in mind that your tastes will likely change as you progress.
Hope this long-winded ramble helps. I'm sure I've forgotten a bunch of key points, but no doubt others will put flesh on these bones.
Yep, Zina's right. Feeling stuck on a plateau? Consider buying a better bow.
Also, I purposely didn't get into what material the stick is made from. Pernambuco is still the standard of high-end bows, but many makers also use other woods, and some of the composite bows are quite good. The bottom line is that the stick should feel simultaneously lively and stable when playing. Most of the cheap student bows I've tried are neither. I don't know how they do it, but it's apparently possible to make a bow feel at once dead and skittish, like a lead pipe connected to 220 electrical current--not pleasant to hold.
Wow! I am learning a lot from this discussion. I am a relatively new fiddler. Here's a little story:
My teacher, who is a great fiddler, asked me to take her favorite bow to the new violin maker in my neighborhood to be rehaired. The viloin maker and bow maker is from China. He has studied in France and Italy and has numerous awards and diplomas,etc. on the walls of the shop.
I handed him the bow--he scowled and muttered. He took out a scale, he weighed it, examined it, scrutinized it. He measured it. "Bad bow. Not worth it. Too short. Too light. Bad bow!" he finally said. "But it's my teacher's favorite!" I said. "Not worth it," he said. He refused to rehair it!
So I was afraid my teacher would be upset with me for not being more assertive, but this guy was serious. Anyway, she ended up buying one of his (a $150.00 bow) and likes it just fine.
Speaking of rehair - what a difference that can make! Sometimes when you are shopping you like a bow simply because it has a full hank of hair. Old hair loses its "grab." I notice that if I play outside much, the hair picks up dust and starts to sound raspy. A rehair is the only solution I have found.
I've noticed that a lot of fiddlers tend to like lighter bows than the classical players. An excellent fiddler and I were talking two weeks ago about this; his own feeling is that the lighter bow allows him to use more power without the risk of too much pressure.
Conversely, I also know of many fiddlers who like heavier weights, feeling that it allows them to get more pressure against the string without actually applying it via the weight of their hand. Some fiddlers I know like it so much they use a viola bow; I even know of one player who uses a cello bow on his fiddle (I have no idea how he manages to play with it, but play well he does).
Anyway, Andee, your Chinese bowmaker story doesn't surprise me at all! Most bowmakers are very fussy about bows they'll work on. Their art consists of very small fine details, most of which tend to make an enormous amount of difference across the bow. I once sat and listened to a bowmaker go on for almost an hour just on one or two facets of the effect of grain on the bow and how it plays.
And of course I'm sure part of the reason they're so fussy is because so many people think their art makes little to no difference in a player's playing. Guess I'd be a little defensive about it too...
Which raises a question. I break a hair on my bow about once every two years. But I've seen some players saw through *all* the hair in an evening. Can someone tell me WHY they do that? I know that the Charlie Daniels types might shred their bow hair just for show--flailing all that pony tail around for an audience is like waving feathers on a stick in front of a roomful of cats. But what would it gain you otherwise?
(Apologies in advance to anyone who routinely breaks bow hairs but does not play like Charlie Daniels...I honestly mean no disrespect, and am just curious about this hair-breaking phenomenon. If you do go through bow hair quickly, I'd like to hear why you think that happens.)
I break about one a month & I bear down hard & am in no way nice to my bow. I've seen people that play like kittens & strip off three or four hairs a set - maybe they're using really cheap bow hair or the person who haired the bow didn't do it right. I don't know but I've never had a big problem in that dept..
Feathers on a stick is my smallest cat's favorite toy, but she eats them very very quickly, so we don't buy her one very often.
I break a bow hair about one every two months, and I've never been able to figure out how I do it. I've also never been able to figure out how people break quite so many...too much pressure? The Leahy brother who does most of the talking goes through quite a bit of hair, and Eileen Ivers says that after she recorded the first rack off her blue album that there were maybe four hairs left on the bow...
I litter the floor with bow hair. It doesn't matter what Kind of hair. It doesn't matter who rehairs the bows. I'm just an abrasive kinda guy.
One of my friends (survivor of the 60's movement) has long grey hair. She thought her hair had contracted some kind of foul mite. It was thick, wiry, sticky and all over the floor. I suppose I should have cleaned up after myself.
Generally (IMHO) if you are losinfg lots of bow hair you are abusing your equipment (no jokes please) or you have a problem like:
1) Bow mites - I've never seen these little critters but violin people say they live in your case and eat bow hair. (really!) The solution is total rehair of all the bows that live in the case and disinfect the case. Kinda like head lice. Any of you violin experts care to comment?
2) Inproper removal of broken hairs. Some folks just jerk out broken hairs. This can loosen the connection between the hairs inside the frog or tip. Suddenly you start losing lots of hair. Broken hairs should be cut off neatly (and carefully) as close to the frog or tip as possible.
Will - i've a mate who sheds hairs at the drop of a hat and,as far as i can tell,his technique is fine and he's not pressing down.
i wondered why this should be about a month or so ago and i suspect it's a combination of too much rosin and the fact that he plays with very slack tension.
don't know if this helps you,though!
recently i've been playing on a
I bought a $25 (USD) bow just for fun to see what it was like on E-bay whilst I was buying some other stuff. It arrived. I decided almost immediately to use it only when it was raining, as it was basically a twig with some hair on. It lived in my case for about half a year and never once came out. Someone stole it out of my case at a show we did at a school (I was onstage with my fiddle at the time)... I wasn't heart-broken -- good use of a $25 bow!
When I first started out I played a fiddle I bought at a pawn shop for $25, with a bow someone gave me for free. I've since invested in better tools of the trade. Now and then, trying fiddles at shops or swapping instruments during a session, I've played with some shabby bows, and the amazing thing is that they all basically work. But a good bow (whether you paid $10 or $10,000 for it) feels like part of your hand, not the aforementioned electrified lead pipe.
The bow hair info is interesting. I've just never broken many hairs and wondered why some people seem to go through them. The explanations given here make sense.
ceilog -Thanks for the hair trimming tip. I know violin repairfolk use knives to cut off stray hairs, but I have found nail clippers to be useful (and safer for the mechanically challenged!)
sorry,Will,i misread your post and thought it was yerself (as if!!!) who got thru the bow hairs,my apologies!
well,Zina, i've still to try these bows on the viola (they are fiddle bows,after all) and i have a very decent chunky viola bow that takes care of my classical viola needs but it might interest you to know that i have done plenty of orchestral concerts with my 'shite' viola bow and years ago i had a short fibreglass bow that saw active service!
if there's a solo involved,then i'm a bit more picky!
i have heard of viola players using cello bows but never the fiddle!
by the way,a couple of viola players i know use cello rosin- i don't know if there's any difference.
what with all the variables,i would despair! as with instruments,i've always gone with what happens to suit me at the time.sometimes,the more choice you have,the harder it can be to decide...
Going back to question of bow hair becoming dirty, I was once told to wash it in luke warm water and washing up liquid. Seems to make a difference, especially after a week at Sidmouth Festival, with chips and other greasy bits and pieces wandering around.
Is this really a good idea, is it normal practise
My fiddle bow is not a terribly dear one, but when I got my viola a few years ago, I tried loads of viola bows and only the really quite expensive ones seemed to work. Now I find that there are some things I can do (usually tricky hornpipe runs) on the viola but can't do on the fiddle. Even with the extra weight on the viola bow, I can do more with it. I think people who say they are happy with a cheep bow just havn't given a better one enough time
I saw a reference in a previous posting to a fiddler who uses a cello bow. So last night I used my cello bow in a session. The results were very good. The sound was stronger, presumably because the horsehair on a cello bow seems to be of a thicker variety than on a fiddle bow. I used less hand/arm weight and just let the weight of the bow do the job. Interestingly, the cello bow felt more responsive and triples were easier, perhaps because the stick is heavier and stiffer, my cello bow is a far better bow than my best fiddle bow, and perhaps because my right hand was slightly more relaxed.
Because I'm a cellist I am accustomed to the weight of the bow, but I found it necessary to use less tension in the hair than I would if I were using it to play the cello. I would, however, draw the line at using a double-bass bow!
All this now raises the question in my mind: do fiddlers need such long bows? How many fiddlers use all the length of the bow? I believe that 2-3 centuries ago violin bows were shorter than they are now, and there might be a case today for fiddlers using shorter bows. Such bows would be lighter, stiffer and presumably more responsive. Any comments from the experts on this one?
I'm convinced that I play better on my viola that the fiddle because both the instrument and the bow are better. The viola bow on the fiddle does'nt work, the sound just cracks up under the extra weight. Maybe it's all in the mind, but I don't think so. The way I've always chosen bows is by playing loads of them without knowing their cost and picking the one I like the best
Well, Macsheoinin, Sean Smythe told us in a beginner workshop that he feels it's best to use as many long single bows as you can to get power, at least when you're learning a tune. After you've learned the tune, he says, you can start adding in the slurs and such, but getting in as many long bows gives what he feels is a much better sound.
Then again, in Ireland I saw quite a few people use a lot of light, short bowing (mainly up on the tip third), so I'd imagine that they'd need a lot less bow length, habitually.
After trying Sean's advice, I have to admit that it does give a more confident, aggressive sound to the playing, so if that's one's cup of tea, a longer bow and that style bowing is probably quite good.
Re: Bow Question (using a cello bow on the fiddle)
Aaargh! The inevitable happened. Went to a symphony orchestra rehearsal tonight, took the cello out of its case and realised I'd left the bow in the fiddle case at home. So I had to grovel and borrow a spare bow from another player in the section. I was lucky - many cellists for some reason (expense perhaps?) tend not to carry a caseful of spare bows around with them, like the violinists do.
Afterwards I was glad to relax for a couple of hours at a session in my favourite pub, picking up my fiddle on the way there. Used the cello bow again on the fiddle. It is definitely more responsive and brings out the tone of the instrument. This was confirmed by a couple of the other fiddle players who tried my cello bow on their own instruments, although, not being cellists, they had some reservations about the extra weight - my cello bow is about one third heavier than my fiddle bow. Wonder if I might be starting a trend...
Concerning bow length, when learning a tune I tend to use single bows over half to two-thirds of the bow length. I never feel the need to use more, possibly because I have a fairly resonant fiddle. As I get to know the tune and increase playing speed then I start using slurs and also a shorter bowing length.
Having said that, slow full length bows are excellent practice for bowing and tone control. Endeavour to maintain volume and quality of tone over the full length of the bow when playing very slowly and also on the return stroke while trying to make the transition from down-bow to up-bow inaudible. Start doing this on an open string, with a view to progressing to playing slow scales and arpeggios over two or more octaves on one bow. This is very good for the soul.
Macsheoinin,
I havn't a clue how you can get your cello bow to work on the fiddle if I can't get my viola bow to work. I've never tried a cello bow. What's the difference?
I think you should be able to use a viola bow on your fiddle successfully. A viola bow is only a slightly heavier version of a violin bow, so there is clearly a problem.
There are a hell of a lot of variables in this one, so who knows what the real answer could be? I am inclined to the view that the quality of the bow, instrument and strings are particularly relevant factors. Anyway, here are a few thoughts on the matter.
Here are my cello bow details to compare with a fiddle bow.
My cello bow is about 45 years old; I've had it since my mid-teens, so it is something I've been used to most of my life, and feels like part of me. (This is an important point).
It weighs about 80-85 grammes (as near as I can estimate from kitchen scales), whereas my fiddle bows are 60-61 grammes.
The usable length of the hair on the cello bow is 4cm less than that on the fiddle bow (hair length is a more useful measurement than overall length).
The diameter of the cello bow stick at its fattest point is 10.5mm; that of the fiddle bow is 8.75mm. I took these measurements by wrapping a piece of paper round the stick, marking it with pencil, measuring the circumference and dividing the circumference by 3.14.
A cello bow is naturally stiffer than a violin bow.
My cello bow has substantially retained its shape throughout its life. All my bows are of pernabuco wood.
Cello bow hair is coarser than fiddle bow hair. I would guess that the hair of viola bow is closer to that of the fiddle than that of the cello, but this should be checked out with a bow specialist.
Condition of the bow hair may be relevant. My cello bow was last rehaired 3 years ago and has not dropped a hair since, despite being used for at least 6 hours a week in orchestral rehearsals. My fiddle bow is 18 months old. It has dropped about 4 hairs in that time, by getting caught in something, not through playing use - I think it gets 10-12 hours use a week.
I use the same rosin on all my bows - Koplan Art.
I don't have a viola bow, but I would guess that it is much closer to a violin bow than it is to a cello bow.
Strings: On the fiddle I use Zyex A,D,G with an Olive E. Zyex is a new string by D'Addario, who make the well-known Helicore range.
Zyex is a metal-covered new polymer composition with nearly all the characteristics and advantages of the best gut but none of the disadvantages; i.e. they have the same tension, feel and response as gut, but stay in tune and are unaffected by temperature and humidity. Like gut, they can be tuned by the pegs. I find Zyex very responsive and smooth. The Zyex G and D, on my fiddle at any rate, have a depth and quality of tone reminiscent of a good viola. Currently, Zyex is available only for the violin; presumably it will eventually be available for the viola and cello.
Quality: I bought my fiddle bow 18 months ago; it is a German bow costing
To get back to the original posting (!), although I haven't had the opportunity to try out a composite bow I have spoken to a professional fiddle player who uses one (it cost about
Bow Question
Bow Question
Has anyone here used one of the composite hybrid bows now on the market? If so, what is your opinion?
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by KP
Re: Bow Question
I was wondering the same thing. I was told that if you are going to spend under $500 for a bow, you will get a better bow for the money with a composite hybrid bow. I have not tested that theory personally though.
Of course, the relative "indestructibility" can be an appealing feature all by itself!!
-h
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by RedFiddle
Re: Bow Question
I've been using a Coda Classic composite bow for over a year now and really like it. I paid about $700 US for it and it easily holds it's own against several pernambuco bows I have in the $1,500 to $3,000 range. It's stable, powerful, well balanced, and responsive. I also like being able to rap on empty pint glasses to get everyone's attention at last call, and not worry about cracking the tip.
I would recommend test flying several different bows, even if you settle on a particular brand or model. I tried five Coda Classics before I found one I really liked--you can specify what weight you want within a range from around 59 grams up to 62 grams or so. Most of the weight difference is due to varying density in the ebony frogs, so balance is also affected, and I found significant differences in how the bows felt. Also, one Coda bow came with overly long hair--fixable, but I wouldn't want to have to rehair a brand new bow when you can get one set up correctly in the first place.
Also, if you're serious and want the best, you can get a really terrific bow from Neil Burke for around $3,000 US. That may sound like a lot, but many high-end bows go for double that amount these days.
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Bow Question
cor blimy!
i never thought you could pay that much for a bow. dont know that much about them. one of my friends had a guitar with a carbon neck, he didnt like it as he found it cold. bit picky that, but if you play alot then it cud get on your nerves.
my only advice is make sure you try it out first!!!
all the best
briggfoot
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by briggfoot
Re: Bow Question
I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH YOU'RE ALL PAYING FOR YOUR BOWS! IN ENGLAND YOU CAN GET GREAT CARBON BOWS FOR UNDER
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by fiddlerflynn
Re: Bow Question
But... do they also have computer keyboards with lower case letters?
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by glauber
Re: Bow Question
Bowing's a funny one. I've known fiddlers who can play great with a cheap
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by ...
Re: Bow Question
I have both a coda classic and a glaser composite. They are very close in feel and action. The glaser cost about a third of the coda. Coda is also making several cheaper grades for the lower end market. I too have been told that at the low end of the market, carbon fiber/composite bows out perform wood. For really cheap, a glaser fiberglass bow with real hair runs about $50 new. All the sword fighting symphony kids use them.
Joe
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by Carrmuse
Re: Bow Question
I'm trying out a Coda Classic right now and I really like it. It's a very quick, responsive bow. I was getting a sore bowing shoulder from long sessions with my penambuco bow and the composite seems to have helped that problem. I think you would be lucky to find a wood bow in that price range (700) that felt as nice.
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by Pat
Re: Bow Question
In Peter Cooper's Fiddling Book, there is a photo of Padraig O'Keefe from the late 1950s. In his hands he holds a pint glass (half empty), his fiddle and perhaps the worst looking bow I've ever seen. There is some sort of makeshift gizmo that attaches the hair to the bow tip. The distance from the hair to the stick (at the tip must have been over 2 inches! And yet he managed quite well. We mere mortals need every advantage we can get to even approach the brilliance of those masters.
Joe
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by Carrmuse
Well, I have to say, I like my Coda Colours so much that I rehair it as soon as it needs it even though I have 3 other perfectly good well balanced bows in reserve. I don't know how I ever managed to play well before that. I know that I didn't even have a clue what a well balanced incredibly responsive bow could do. Perhaps I should have a garage sale on my other bows.
About those Glasser Carbon Fiber Bow's. They sound to good to be true. I'll check one out. In the meantime. CODA all the way - I'm going to buy a second unless the Glassers pan out.
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by Mark Cordova
Re: Bow Question
Dunno. A bowmaker of my acquaintance had me try a bunch of different bows, including the composite, and wouldn't tell me which were which when I was trying them. I picked wood, and expensive wood at that, every time. He says he's come to the conclusion that unless you're needing a bow for wet and foggy conditions, wood is still better than the composites.
But then, he makes the things, so what else would he say?
So now I'm playing with a bow I bought from Mike Dugger -- French style Japanese bow...and it's made for a lot of improvement. I did try the composite bows, thinking that they'd do the same, but they weren't quite there.
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bow Question Padraig O'Keefe's Bow
I've seen that picture, it's a classic. I remember reading that his bow was either a bass or cello bow, the frog broke & somehow he rigged a cork (I think from a bottle of porter) as a makeshift frog. When asked about it he said, "Ah, vanity!"... I don't have a Coda-bow but I've tried them & I think they're great, I've also tried some cheaper composite bows that worked well too.
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by B Rad
Re: Bow Question
Yipes! Some of those Coda's cost more than both my fiddles combined! Mark, I'd love to get a test drive on the Coda! *please*
Kinda hard to imagine spending the better part of a grand for stick of wood and some hair, don't ya think? On the other hand if the bow starts sawing away and I start to sound like a master fiddler, l'll gladly shell out double the price!
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Bow Question
Just for some perspective from the other end of the scale. Not too long ago I was in a big US city and went to one of the premier violin shops just to test drive their inventory. After playing a few "low-end" fiddles in the $6,000 to $10,000 US range, ended up being handed a $20,000 violin. They saw my Coda bow and brought in a bow case. "Try this one," the guru said. Nice clean pernambuco bow, nothing spectacular to look at (no ivory frog or gold-plated fittings, just a "normal" bow), but felt like air in my hand and played like an extension of my nerve synapses. The price tag was in the case: $25,000. Oh well.
Also, to clarify my earlier post: I didn't pay $1,500 to $3,000 for my pernambuco bows, but that's what they appraise at now. The more valuable one I inherited from my great aunt, who played with it 100 years ago, but at 57.8 grams it's a little too light for my tastes. Modelled after the French maker Lupot's work, it's beautifully balanced, but hard to power through in a loud session.
I think of my Coda as a reliable workhorse that can run like a thoroughbred when asked.
# Posted on September 30th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Bow Question
What criteria do the rest of you use to tell if a bow is a good bow? Is "it just feels good" enough? Maybe. Objectively, I like a bow that feels like it's almost part of the string, not too bouncy. For example, when you get done with a bowing triplet, the following note is right there, nice and clean, without a recovery period on the bow's part that makes the following note difficult. And then there's the tone question. Some people think the composites lack a sense of warmth. Myself, I don't hear that.
# Posted on October 1st 2002 by Pat
Re: Bow Question
Sorry everyone! I didn't mean to "shout" at you with my upper case letters. I'm new at all this chat room stuff so please accept my aplogies for recent entries.
# Posted on October 1st 2002 by fiddlerflynn
Re: Bow Question
I've never dared to try a fiddle over $4000, Will, for fear of spending the rest of my life pining after it!
Same with the bows.
My local violin repair shop once had me try a $4000 Russian fiddle. My god. I couldn't believe the difference between my own fiddle and that thing -- my own is a rather nice school model, good measurements, nice tone, good sound, nothing to write home about but certainly adequate, but the Russian fiddle made it sound comparatively like a cigar box with strings.
Will once posted that if you wanted to make the most difference and get the most bang for your buck, to get a good bow. I went, yeah, yeah, right, of course that's true and blithely went on my way with my student grade bow. Then Mike Dugger told me I needed to buy his bow, and suddenly everyone was telling me that obviously I'd been working very hard because I'd improved so much recently.
Will strikes again.
# Posted on October 1st 2002 by Zina Lee
No troubles, Flynn -- and welcome to The Session!
# Posted on October 1st 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bow Question
Pat, you've raised a good question, one that puzzled me for years. Selecting a good bow is a bit of a Catch-22 if you're not an experienced player and already know what you're looking for. A "beginner" wants the best bow s/he can afford, one that will help and not hinder progress, but it's darn difficult to know what a good bow feels like until you've played for years, can do all sorts of bow techniques that most beginners aren't familiar with, and have played more than a handful of different bows. So if your bow technique is still in its formative years, you won't know what bow will work for you as a more advanced player. Bow choice is also highly subjective and personal, so it's risky to ask a better player to pick one out for you (although this may be the best option for some).
There are a few objective criteria to at least separate "bad" bows from "good" ones.
1. Check the stick to make sure it's not warped right or left. It should run straight from frog to tip.
2. Make sure there are no cracks or repaired breaks in the stick. A good repair job can salvage a bow, but with so many clean sticks available, why buy one that's already been through the chipper?
3. Just above the frog, look at the wrapping--the so-called "grip." These are easy to repair if they're coming undone or worn, but you should look for one in good condition, made of a material you like. Some people apparently like the feel of wire or plastic cord wound around the grip (shudder), others prefer smooth leather or similar padding. Realize that the grip can be applied at different distnaces from the frog, and in different lengths and thicknesses.
4. Unscrew the frog to make sure the mechanism works easily and check the threads on the screw to see that the threads are not stripped. The base of the frog should fit snugly against the stick when the hair is at playing tension.
5. Check the hair to make sure it's full and flat. Rehairing isn't expensive, but you can't really test a bow unless the hair is in good shape and properly attached. It should fill the holder in the frog and the face of the hair (the side that rests on the strings) should be flat, not twisted or thicker on one side than another. In my book, there's no substitute for real horse hair (the synthetic stuff just doesn't hold rosin as well).
6. Put tension on the hair and watch how the stick responds. You want to leave some longitudinal curve in the stick with the hair tight enough to allow heavy pressure on the strings without the hair touching the stick. Sometimes bows are poorly rehaired--the hair is too long or too short--and this makes the bow bouncy or mushy or otherwise play below its potential.
7. Play some long bow strokes on a fiddle, running from frog to tip and back. (Okay, in the beginning I know we all wonder "how much tension is right?" and "how do you keep the bow from bouncing and skidding all over on these long strokes?" and all I can say is to play, play, play. The more you do it, the more you'll know.If in doubt, ask an experienced player to help.)The bow shouldn't feel bouncy; it should be easy to keep the hair on the string, with little or no bounce coming through the stick.
8. Most reputable violin bows weigh between 59 and 62 grams. Anything too far outside these parameters would make me suspicious. Also, most handmade bows are stamped with the maker's name, either on the side of the stick by the frog, or sometimes under the frog (unscrew it to look). Sometimes there are initials on the flat face of the tip. More and more factory bows are coming with exotic names stamped on the stick, so this isn't a guarantee of quality. And some makers stamp a famous name on the stick--I have a very nice bow stamped "Lupot" and it's clearly a copy of bows made by Nicholas Lupot a French maker from the early 1800s. Mine is apparently a mid to late 1800s German copy--a great bow made by talented hands, but a copy nonetheless. If it were genuine, it would be worth $7,000 or more.
9. Within the above weight range, bows range all over the place in how they're balanced. Some are frog heavy, some are tip heavy, and some are neutral. Different players prefer different balance points. Try different bows and see what feels good to you. Many people start out liking tip heavy bows and gradually move toward a more neutral bow. Try lots of different bows (even after you find one you like), and bear in mind that your tastes will likely change as you progress.
Hope this long-winded ramble helps. I'm sure I've forgotten a bunch of key points, but no doubt others will put flesh on these bones.
# Posted on October 1st 2002 by Will Harmon
Yep, Zina's right. Feeling stuck on a plateau? Consider buying a better bow.
Also, I purposely didn't get into what material the stick is made from. Pernambuco is still the standard of high-end bows, but many makers also use other woods, and some of the composite bows are quite good. The bottom line is that the stick should feel simultaneously lively and stable when playing. Most of the cheap student bows I've tried are neither. I don't know how they do it, but it's apparently possible to make a bow feel at once dead and skittish, like a lead pipe connected to 220 electrical current--not pleasant to hold.
# Posted on October 1st 2002 by Will Harmon
Pernambuco
That's the name of a state in Brazil. Is that where the wood comes from?
# Posted on October 1st 2002 by glauber
Re: Bow Question
Wow! I am learning a lot from this discussion. I am a relatively new fiddler. Here's a little story:
My teacher, who is a great fiddler, asked me to take her favorite bow to the new violin maker in my neighborhood to be rehaired. The viloin maker and bow maker is from China. He has studied in France and Italy and has numerous awards and diplomas,etc. on the walls of the shop.
I handed him the bow--he scowled and muttered. He took out a scale, he weighed it, examined it, scrutinized it. He measured it. "Bad bow. Not worth it. Too short. Too light. Bad bow!" he finally said. "But it's my teacher's favorite!" I said. "Not worth it," he said. He refused to rehair it!
So I was afraid my teacher would be upset with me for not being more assertive, but this guy was serious. Anyway, she ended up buying one of his (a $150.00 bow) and likes it just fine.
# Posted on October 1st 2002 by Andee
Re: Bow Question
Speaking of rehair - what a difference that can make! Sometimes when you are shopping you like a bow simply because it has a full hank of hair. Old hair loses its "grab." I notice that if I play outside much, the hair picks up dust and starts to sound raspy. A rehair is the only solution I have found.
Joe
# Posted on October 2nd 2002 by Carrmuse
Re: Bow Question
I've noticed that a lot of fiddlers tend to like lighter bows than the classical players. An excellent fiddler and I were talking two weeks ago about this; his own feeling is that the lighter bow allows him to use more power without the risk of too much pressure.
Guess I'd be a little defensive about it too...
Conversely, I also know of many fiddlers who like heavier weights, feeling that it allows them to get more pressure against the string without actually applying it via the weight of their hand. Some fiddlers I know like it so much they use a viola bow; I even know of one player who uses a cello bow on his fiddle (I have no idea how he manages to play with it, but play well he does).
Anyway, Andee, your Chinese bowmaker story doesn't surprise me at all! Most bowmakers are very fussy about bows they'll work on. Their art consists of very small fine details, most of which tend to make an enormous amount of difference across the bow. I once sat and listened to a bowmaker go on for almost an hour just on one or two facets of the effect of grain on the bow and how it plays.
And of course I'm sure part of the reason they're so fussy is because so many people think their art makes little to no difference in a player's playing.
Zina
# Posted on October 2nd 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bow Question
that's good advice re pressure on the bow: the more you press,the less sound comes out,so your fiddle playing friend knows his onions!
# Posted on October 2nd 2002 by biggus dave
Re: Bow Question
Which raises a question. I break a hair on my bow about once every two years. But I've seen some players saw through *all* the hair in an evening. Can someone tell me WHY they do that? I know that the Charlie Daniels types might shred their bow hair just for show--flailing all that pony tail around for an audience is like waving feathers on a stick in front of a roomful of cats. But what would it gain you otherwise?
(Apologies in advance to anyone who routinely breaks bow hairs but does not play like Charlie Daniels...I honestly mean no disrespect, and am just curious about this hair-breaking phenomenon. If you do go through bow hair quickly, I'd like to hear why you think that happens.)
# Posted on October 2nd 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Bow Question
I break about one a month & I bear down hard & am in no way nice to my bow. I've seen people that play like kittens & strip off three or four hairs a set - maybe they're using really cheap bow hair or the person who haired the bow didn't do it right. I don't know but I've never had a big problem in that dept..
# Posted on October 2nd 2002 by B Rad
Re: Bow Question
"...like waving feathers on a stick in front of a roomful of cats."
Oh my God, that's funny!
I don't believe I could pop off hairs from my bow if I tried! And I use a lot of pressure on the thing, exchanging pressure for bow length.
# Posted on October 2nd 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Bow Question
Feathers on a stick is my smallest cat's favorite toy, but she eats them very very quickly, so we don't buy her one very often.
I break a bow hair about one every two months, and I've never been able to figure out how I do it. I've also never been able to figure out how people break quite so many...too much pressure? The Leahy brother who does most of the talking goes through quite a bit of hair, and Eileen Ivers says that after she recorded the first rack off her blue album that there were maybe four hairs left on the bow...
# Posted on October 2nd 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bow Question
I litter the floor with bow hair. It doesn't matter what Kind of hair. It doesn't matter who rehairs the bows. I'm just an abrasive kinda guy.
One of my friends (survivor of the 60's movement) has long grey hair. She thought her hair had contracted some kind of foul mite. It was thick, wiry, sticky and all over the floor. I suppose I should have cleaned up after myself.
Mark
# Posted on October 2nd 2002 by Mark Cordova
Kevin
I missed your request.
You can use that bow all night but you will have to give it back!
Mark
# Posted on October 2nd 2002 by Mark Cordova
Re: Bow Question
Generally (IMHO) if you are losinfg lots of bow hair you are abusing your equipment (no jokes please) or you have a problem like:
1) Bow mites - I've never seen these little critters but violin people say they live in your case and eat bow hair. (really!) The solution is total rehair of all the bows that live in the case and disinfect the case. Kinda like head lice. Any of you violin experts care to comment?
2) Inproper removal of broken hairs. Some folks just jerk out broken hairs. This can loosen the connection between the hairs inside the frog or tip. Suddenly you start losing lots of hair. Broken hairs should be cut off neatly (and carefully) as close to the frog or tip as possible.
Joe
# Posted on October 3rd 2002 by Carrmuse
Re: Bow Question
Will - i've a mate who sheds hairs at the drop of a hat and,as far as i can tell,his technique is fine and he's not pressing down.
i wondered why this should be about a month or so ago and i suspect it's a combination of too much rosin and the fact that he plays with very slack tension.
don't know if this helps you,though!
recently i've been playing on a
# Posted on October 3rd 2002 by biggus dave
Re: Bow Question
I bought a $25 (USD) bow just for fun to see what it was like on E-bay whilst I was buying some other stuff. It arrived. I decided almost immediately to use it only when it was raining, as it was basically a twig with some hair on. It lived in my case for about half a year and never once came out. Someone stole it out of my case at a show we did at a school (I was onstage with my fiddle at the time)... I wasn't heart-broken -- good use of a $25 bow!
# Posted on October 3rd 2002 by Zina Lee
P.S. Dave
Classical Boy, you don't use a
# Posted on October 3rd 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bow Question
When I first started out I played a fiddle I bought at a pawn shop for $25, with a bow someone gave me for free. I've since invested in better tools of the trade. Now and then, trying fiddles at shops or swapping instruments during a session, I've played with some shabby bows, and the amazing thing is that they all basically work. But a good bow (whether you paid $10 or $10,000 for it) feels like part of your hand, not the aforementioned electrified lead pipe.
The bow hair info is interesting. I've just never broken many hairs and wondered why some people seem to go through them. The explanations given here make sense.
# Posted on October 3rd 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Bow Question
ceilog -Thanks for the hair trimming tip. I know violin repairfolk use knives to cut off stray hairs, but I have found nail clippers to be useful (and safer for the mechanically challenged!)
Joe
# Posted on October 3rd 2002 by Carrmuse
Re: Bow Question
sorry,Will,i misread your post and thought it was yerself (as if!!!) who got thru the bow hairs,my apologies!
well,Zina, i've still to try these bows on the viola (they are fiddle bows,after all) and i have a very decent chunky viola bow that takes care of my classical viola needs but it might interest you to know that i have done plenty of orchestral concerts with my 'shite' viola bow and years ago i had a short fibreglass bow that saw active service!
if there's a solo involved,then i'm a bit more picky!
i have heard of viola players using cello bows but never the fiddle!
by the way,a couple of viola players i know use cello rosin- i don't know if there's any difference.
what with all the variables,i would despair! as with instruments,i've always gone with what happens to suit me at the time.sometimes,the more choice you have,the harder it can be to decide...
# Posted on October 3rd 2002 by biggus dave
Re: Bow Question
Going back to question of bow hair becoming dirty, I was once told to wash it in luke warm water and washing up liquid. Seems to make a difference, especially after a week at Sidmouth Festival, with chips and other greasy bits and pieces wandering around.
Is this really a good idea, is it normal practise
# Posted on October 6th 2002 by nickthefiddle
Re: Bow Question
My fiddle bow is not a terribly dear one, but when I got my viola a few years ago, I tried loads of viola bows and only the really quite expensive ones seemed to work. Now I find that there are some things I can do (usually tricky hornpipe runs) on the viola but can't do on the fiddle. Even with the extra weight on the viola bow, I can do more with it. I think people who say they are happy with a cheep bow just havn't given a better one enough time
# Posted on October 6th 2002 by ...
Re: Bow Question
I saw a reference in a previous posting to a fiddler who uses a cello bow. So last night I used my cello bow in a session. The results were very good. The sound was stronger, presumably because the horsehair on a cello bow seems to be of a thicker variety than on a fiddle bow. I used less hand/arm weight and just let the weight of the bow do the job. Interestingly, the cello bow felt more responsive and triples were easier, perhaps because the stick is heavier and stiffer, my cello bow is a far better bow than my best fiddle bow, and perhaps because my right hand was slightly more relaxed.
Because I'm a cellist I am accustomed to the weight of the bow, but I found it necessary to use less tension in the hair than I would if I were using it to play the cello. I would, however, draw the line at using a double-bass bow!
All this now raises the question in my mind: do fiddlers need such long bows? How many fiddlers use all the length of the bow? I believe that 2-3 centuries ago violin bows were shorter than they are now, and there might be a case today for fiddlers using shorter bows. Such bows would be lighter, stiffer and presumably more responsive. Any comments from the experts on this one?
# Posted on October 7th 2002 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Bow Question
I'm convinced that I play better on my viola that the fiddle because both the instrument and the bow are better. The viola bow on the fiddle does'nt work, the sound just cracks up under the extra weight. Maybe it's all in the mind, but I don't think so. The way I've always chosen bows is by playing loads of them without knowing their cost and picking the one I like the best
# Posted on October 7th 2002 by ...
Re: Bow Question
Well, Macsheoinin, Sean Smythe told us in a beginner workshop that he feels it's best to use as many long single bows as you can to get power, at least when you're learning a tune. After you've learned the tune, he says, you can start adding in the slurs and such, but getting in as many long bows gives what he feels is a much better sound.
Then again, in Ireland I saw quite a few people use a lot of light, short bowing (mainly up on the tip third), so I'd imagine that they'd need a lot less bow length, habitually.
After trying Sean's advice, I have to admit that it does give a more confident, aggressive sound to the playing, so if that's one's cup of tea, a longer bow and that style bowing is probably quite good.
# Posted on October 7th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bow Question (using a cello bow on the fiddle)
Aaargh! The inevitable happened. Went to a symphony orchestra rehearsal tonight, took the cello out of its case and realised I'd left the bow in the fiddle case at home. So I had to grovel and borrow a spare bow from another player in the section. I was lucky - many cellists for some reason (expense perhaps?) tend not to carry a caseful of spare bows around with them, like the violinists do.
Afterwards I was glad to relax for a couple of hours at a session in my favourite pub, picking up my fiddle on the way there. Used the cello bow again on the fiddle. It is definitely more responsive and brings out the tone of the instrument. This was confirmed by a couple of the other fiddle players who tried my cello bow on their own instruments, although, not being cellists, they had some reservations about the extra weight - my cello bow is about one third heavier than my fiddle bow. Wonder if I might be starting a trend...
Concerning bow length, when learning a tune I tend to use single bows over half to two-thirds of the bow length. I never feel the need to use more, possibly because I have a fairly resonant fiddle. As I get to know the tune and increase playing speed then I start using slurs and also a shorter bowing length.
Having said that, slow full length bows are excellent practice for bowing and tone control. Endeavour to maintain volume and quality of tone over the full length of the bow when playing very slowly and also on the return stroke while trying to make the transition from down-bow to up-bow inaudible. Start doing this on an open string, with a view to progressing to playing slow scales and arpeggios over two or more octaves on one bow. This is very good for the soul.
# Posted on October 7th 2002 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Bow Question
Macsheoinin,
I havn't a clue how you can get your cello bow to work on the fiddle if I can't get my viola bow to work. I've never tried a cello bow. What's the difference?
# Posted on October 7th 2002 by ...
Re: Bow Question
Michael,
I think you should be able to use a viola bow on your fiddle successfully. A viola bow is only a slightly heavier version of a violin bow, so there is clearly a problem.
There are a hell of a lot of variables in this one, so who knows what the real answer could be? I am inclined to the view that the quality of the bow, instrument and strings are particularly relevant factors. Anyway, here are a few thoughts on the matter.
Here are my cello bow details to compare with a fiddle bow.
My cello bow is about 45 years old; I've had it since my mid-teens, so it is something I've been used to most of my life, and feels like part of me. (This is an important point).
It weighs about 80-85 grammes (as near as I can estimate from kitchen scales), whereas my fiddle bows are 60-61 grammes.
The usable length of the hair on the cello bow is 4cm less than that on the fiddle bow (hair length is a more useful measurement than overall length).
The diameter of the cello bow stick at its fattest point is 10.5mm; that of the fiddle bow is 8.75mm. I took these measurements by wrapping a piece of paper round the stick, marking it with pencil, measuring the circumference and dividing the circumference by 3.14.
A cello bow is naturally stiffer than a violin bow.
My cello bow has substantially retained its shape throughout its life. All my bows are of pernabuco wood.
Cello bow hair is coarser than fiddle bow hair. I would guess that the hair of viola bow is closer to that of the fiddle than that of the cello, but this should be checked out with a bow specialist.
Condition of the bow hair may be relevant. My cello bow was last rehaired 3 years ago and has not dropped a hair since, despite being used for at least 6 hours a week in orchestral rehearsals. My fiddle bow is 18 months old. It has dropped about 4 hairs in that time, by getting caught in something, not through playing use - I think it gets 10-12 hours use a week.
I use the same rosin on all my bows - Koplan Art.
I don't have a viola bow, but I would guess that it is much closer to a violin bow than it is to a cello bow.
Strings: On the fiddle I use Zyex A,D,G with an Olive E. Zyex is a new string by D'Addario, who make the well-known Helicore range.
Zyex is a metal-covered new polymer composition with nearly all the characteristics and advantages of the best gut but none of the disadvantages; i.e. they have the same tension, feel and response as gut, but stay in tune and are unaffected by temperature and humidity. Like gut, they can be tuned by the pegs. I find Zyex very responsive and smooth. The Zyex G and D, on my fiddle at any rate, have a depth and quality of tone reminiscent of a good viola. Currently, Zyex is available only for the violin; presumably it will eventually be available for the viola and cello.
Quality: I bought my fiddle bow 18 months ago; it is a German bow costing
# Posted on October 8th 2002 by Trevor Jennings
Bow question (composite bows)
To get back to the original posting (!), although I haven't had the opportunity to try out a composite bow I have spoken to a professional fiddle player who uses one (it cost about
# Posted on October 8th 2002 by Trevor Jennings