Just picked up a vibe from a previous discussion here about top 5 CDs, and the absence of certain "stalwarts" such as the Chieftains.
Though they contain (and/or have contained) within their ranks some giants of ITM, the Chieftains often seem to me to be an example of a group being LESS than the sum of its parts.
I've always found them difficult to listen to, and when I press myself for a reason, it is usually to do with a perceived lack of precision, particularly in terms of timing and tuning. Also their endless collaborations with musicians outside ITM don't always add up to anything great, to my ears at least.
Like any successful act, you have to admire them for what they have achieved, but I have never enjoyed their music much.
Am I a total heretic?
BTW I love Matt Molloy's playing, on his solo ventures, his CDs with Sean Keane, Bothy Band and Planxty. With the Chieftains, it never seems to be in the same class.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I like their crossover stuff - the bluegrass and latin material in particular. But then I also like Afrocelt and have the worst taste in music generally, according to my friends
And I *love* watching that bit on the dvd where Derek Bell goes on about Lord Shiva!
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I'm sure this has been covered in the past here, but I think for most folks who are into playing sessions, the Chieftan's sound is a big departure. I believe they are/were mostly classically trained musicians, some of them celebrated composers and interpreters, and they applied those skills to arranging and interptreting ITM; sucessfully. It's just that's it's kind of a different animal; more different than even the "big Irish band" sound of Planxty, Bothy Band, etc. I think they are credited with being the first to revive the traditional music and get it out there to a wider audience...
I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in here to correct or augment this.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
For me it really depends on the album in question. I love the "Live" album in particular, and lots of the early stuff. The "guest appearance" stuff - I just have not listened to it that much.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Sean O'Riada revived the music in the public eye, and the Chieftains grew out of that. They have some cracking albums, mostly in the 1960s, and then started p*ssing about, although as I am secure enough to admit that I like songs, I actually like Van Morrison doing Raglan Road and Carrickfergus and some others.
They did some good stuff, and certainly raised the profile, and made music profitable.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I've always considered the approach to be classical, like they were trying to introduce (dare I say it? ) ITM to the symphonic set: Think of Burl Ives with his bel canto folk songs,or Mary O'Hara (sic) : compare with Triona or Antoinette ( probably unsic) McKenna.
Paddy Maloney's orchestrations certainly owe a lot to Percy Grainger.
The whole question reminds me of the Frank Roche articles advocating a Nationalist Irish Composer.
Has Paddy ever used his regulators? I never caught him at it.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Owell - Okay, I'll stick my neck out. Who is/was Percy Grainger? When I first saw your post, I thought that you were referring to Percy Faith (yikes!). And I agree with you that they were trying to create a "Chamber Music" version of ITM, giving it a bit of, um, respectability, with their suits and ties and such (at least in the early days) which I think that they largely succeeded at...despite being involved in projects with such, er, "luminaries" as Mick Jagger and (urp!) Jackson Browne.
But someone please clarify their shortcomings in "sound, timing and tuning".
I move to nominate Shane MacGowan as the N.I.C. All in favor say "Aye".
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Percy Grainger was a composer and arranger of some note in the early part of the 20th century. Most noted for "English country garden" and arranging Londonderry air. He was trained as a musician in the Australian Army Band Corps. As an ex Bandy I had to endure playing his smaltzy sh*te and the endless lectures on him. Most notabley he suffered from oedipus syndrome, ie He had it off with his ma!!
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Percy Grainger was also one of a small band of enthusiasts, including Cecil Sharpe and Ralph Vaughan Williams, in the beginning of the 20th century who rescued thousands of folk tunes and songs from oblivion. He was a truly virtuoso concert pianist at the international level.
He also had certain personal interests which are not suitable for discussion on this family website
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Hey guys:
Thanks (I suppose.....his Ma!!) for the information. I thought that I recognized the name. Tassie: was that Bodrahn from a kit, or did you put it together on your own?
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
When Chieftains 1 came out in 1963, the sound was complelling. What was on in the US was the Clancy Bros, the Dubliners. I think we owe a lot to Sean O'Raida and company for bringing Irish trad music out in the open. Remember that irish trad music was like American old timey- something that hicks or hill billys played. Granted that some of the later albums are not to everyone's taste, but that's what makes music interesting.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Thanks for the PG bios, I was elsewhere and probably would have said something like "He was a composer."
There's a story floating around that some step-dance teacher told Paddy Maloney "We love yr music, but we can't dance to it." He replied "OK don't dance to it".
I couldn't give you a helpful answer about the shortcomings,
My yardstick is the old recordings of guys like Morrison, Coleman, Touhy, Dolan . By comparison, the Chieftains sound too uptown. (Even the early stuff) . Compared to the Celtic myst/ new age, they hold up pretty well. I lost track of them after "Boil the Breakfast, so I couldn't deliver an opinion on that. .
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
The Chieftains were there first, and great innovators they were too. Before Planxty et al (yes, I had Prosperous), the choice was the Makems (pre- reformation), the Dubliners, the Kilfenora Ceilidh Band, a few soloists (very good as often as not), arrangements like Sean O'Riada- and the Chieftains. Maddy Polony and the others were trad musicians, not classical- read the Chieftains book, the first half of which is worthwhile, and gives you some of the flkavour of the music scene in Dublin in the early 60s.
As pop personalities (that's the second half of the book), they had to maintain and develop the original approach, and moved parallel to the Planxty/ Bothy Band etc. developments, on to the eclectic international music that characterised their later stuff. And by then they were the establishment, but fair play to them, and to Sean O'Riada, for giving UK sessions such a kickstart.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
The Cheiftains music always reminded me of my Ma, but not for the same reasons as above !
It is like the sort of watered down stuff that other people think is 'real trad', we all know that it had to be put in commercial terms to appeal to the wider audience. Thats alright but, they are all great players in their own rights, and I dont think that the Cheiftains showed this to its fullest potential. I mean what was all that business with the Corrs? Am I the only one here who thought that was definately a bit twee?
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I like their early stuff - I still listen to one of their earliest ones - 3 I think....its great.
Early Chieftans over Solas, Flook, Deiseal, Fused, Wired etc any day of the week. IMHO
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I tend to like the 'guest star' stuff less than when they stick to their own group sound--and unfortunately, that guest star stuff seems to be spreading among the larger groups--Cherish the Ladies, Altan and others are tending to pack their albums with a few too many other folks along the way, and it tends to undermine the group's identity and personality after a while.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I think most people here would agree that the later Chieftains albums have suffered from all the collaborations with pop stars. What I would like to say about their earlier material, though, is that they did indeed often try to be a chamber music group--which I find interesting every once in a while. For instance, that's why they always made sure to play a few tunes by Carolan on each album. Or, if you listen to Chieftains 8, Lady Hamilton sounds like Irish Baroque. Their chamber-music approach also explains why Paddy Moloney enjoyed putting together long "suites" of tunes, such as the Foxhunter's, Sea Image, etc. Whether you like it or not, their approach to traditional music was innovational, and in my opinion each of the albums until #10 or so is great.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
very witty....
I think the chieftains are great musicians - though I don't know every album they recorded.
but I like water from the well very much. and that song they recorded with the Corrs, "I know my love" - maybe I am peculiar but I think it's just great.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I have news for tomw, all traditional, ceoltas types wore suits, shirts and ties, and many of them still do. Mind you the Beatles who arrived at the same time as the Chieftains wore suit, shirts and ties.
All that t-shirts and jeans bit was brought in by those inspired by the Chieftains, as society changed. I mean, only workmen wore jeans.
And blas, it was a long time before the Chieftains got round to the Corrs. Their early stuff inspired thousands of real session players, they were heroes and bloody good musicians, and seeing them live was a big thing. I am going back to Sean Potts and Michael Tubridy days, the 60s stuff, these people deserve credit.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I agree with several others that the first few albums were the best. I love Bonaparte’s Retreat, but mainly for the vocals by Dolores, herself. Some of the guest star stuff worked okay; some didn’t. I wish they (meaning Paddy, I guess) would let Kevin Conneff sing more.
To my ears, there’s sometimes a vague sense of restraint or too much control, as if they’re holding back as much as they’re giving. Or something like that. I’m probably not making sense.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Hey bliss: Yes, you're correct. I had a friend that was a jazz musician around the same time that the Chieftains were starting out, and things were certainly different then. And yes, they do deserve credit.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
It was the jazz players who started dressing down first - I remember hearing Humphrey Lyttleton reminiscing about his early days, and he claimed to have played Manchester Free Trade Hall in about 1947 wearing a sweater with a hole in it !
Now that was rebellion. That was a political statement.
Everybody else did go about in a collar and tie back then.
To agree with everyone else, the early Chieftain albums were groundbreaking, but you can't keep that up for ever.
Hi all, these threads are like exam questions, so many people end up ignoring the question that was asked.....! Hope this thread is still alive.
As I said at the start, to my ears the timing and tuning can be suspect, which upsets me. Does this come through for others?
Also I'm amazed nobody has come out with the "how dare you criticise them!" line. Does anyone think they are a musical dictatorship and if so why hasn't te revolution happened???
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I don’t recall noticing anything peculiar about their timing or tuning, but it’s been a long time since I listened to those old LP’s. What I do remember is that a lot of it after the first couple of albums sounds like soundtrack music, like they’re hanging the tune on a script instead of getting inside the tune. Or maybe like music that’s being sight-read. Maybe that does involve timing.
But I don’t want to seem too critical, because some of the tracks are great. I learned some nice tunes off the first few albums.
I can't hold any of their commecrial success against them, but I wish the entertainment industry at large would acknowledge that there’s a lot more to Irish trad music than the Chieftains. Is there only room for one band to get big-time attention?
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I don’t think you’re a heretic. Chieftains 9/Boil the Breakfast Early was the first “Irish” album I ever bought back in the day and introduced me to the music. I was captivated by the sound. Recently obtained a CD of it. Listened to it a few times and put it on the shelf. Just doesn’t compare to Paddy Canny or Mary McNamara. Or old 78 repros of Morrison and Coleman. Maybe because I try to actually play the music now and listen from a slightly different perspective. Of the Chieftain’s collaborative albums, I think Long Black Veil is the most interesting. They’re clearly giants, incredible musicians and great ambassadors, but to my taste these days, they lack salt. Please understand, I don’t say this to bash them. But I can understand why they might not appear on someone’s top five, especially on this board of rarified tastes.
But as far as a “lack of precision” in timing and tuning, lysaghtm. all I can say is, wow, you must go to awesome sessions!
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I am an American, born & bred. Have been listening to
and playing ITM for 30 years now, and I have to admit
that I have always found the Chieftains to be overproduced,
(that is to say musically "busy"). I cannot get a heartfelt
"groove" from any of their toons, fast or slow. I think theirs
is a case of too much going on at the same time.
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
The Chieftains did for Irish music what the Kingston Trio did for folk music (with less spin), and suffered much of the same abuse from the traditionalists. In the realm of guest artists they were again out front, and don't lose touch with them if you want to know "what's next?" They have an interesting special airing this week. If you can't find it elsewhere, I'll be playing it this Wednesday on "Wheels of the World" on KAOSradio.org from 10 - noon PST.
The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Just picked up a vibe from a previous discussion here about top 5 CDs, and the absence of certain "stalwarts" such as the Chieftains.
Though they contain (and/or have contained) within their ranks some giants of ITM, the Chieftains often seem to me to be an example of a group being LESS than the sum of its parts.
I've always found them difficult to listen to, and when I press myself for a reason, it is usually to do with a perceived lack of precision, particularly in terms of timing and tuning. Also their endless collaborations with musicians outside ITM don't always add up to anything great, to my ears at least.
Like any successful act, you have to admire them for what they have achieved, but I have never enjoyed their music much.
Am I a total heretic?
BTW I love Matt Molloy's playing, on his solo ventures, his CDs with Sean Keane, Bothy Band and Planxty. With the Chieftains, it never seems to be in the same class.
Why?????????????????
# Posted on March 6th 2006 by lysaghtm
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I feel much the same but ... it's like the kings new clothes. I never dared to say anything.
# Posted on March 6th 2006 by Bernie
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I like their crossover stuff - the bluegrass and latin material in particular. But then I also like Afrocelt and have the worst taste in music generally, according to my friends
And I *love* watching that bit on the dvd where Derek Bell goes on about Lord Shiva!
# Posted on March 6th 2006 by Q
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I'm sure this has been covered in the past here, but I think for most folks who are into playing sessions, the Chieftan's sound is a big departure. I believe they are/were mostly classically trained musicians, some of them celebrated composers and interpreters, and they applied those skills to arranging and interptreting ITM; sucessfully. It's just that's it's kind of a different animal; more different than even the "big Irish band" sound of Planxty, Bothy Band, etc. I think they are credited with being the first to revive the traditional music and get it out there to a wider audience...
I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in here to correct or augment this.
# Posted on March 6th 2006 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
For me it really depends on the album in question. I love the "Live" album in particular, and lots of the early stuff. The "guest appearance" stuff - I just have not listened to it that much.
# Posted on March 6th 2006 by wormdiet
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Sean O'Riada revived the music in the public eye, and the Chieftains grew out of that. They have some cracking albums, mostly in the 1960s, and then started p*ssing about, although as I am secure enough to admit that I like songs, I actually like Van Morrison doing Raglan Road and Carrickfergus and some others.
They did some good stuff, and certainly raised the profile, and made music profitable.
# Posted on March 6th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I agree w/ bliss; good stuff in the 60's, then mostly crap. But the only classically trained one of them was Derek Bell ( who was a pro oboist ).
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by Farr
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
but they can't count
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by mcknowall
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I really like #4, and Water from the Well...I am particularly fond of the WFtW dvd...
I'm not too long on th crossover stuff...
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by Sunnybear
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I've always considered the approach to be classical, like they were trying to introduce (dare I say it? ) ITM to the symphonic set: Think of Burl Ives with his bel canto folk songs,or Mary O'Hara (sic) : compare with Triona or Antoinette ( probably unsic) McKenna.
Paddy Maloney's orchestrations certainly owe a lot to Percy Grainger.
The whole question reminds me of the Frank Roche articles advocating a Nationalist Irish Composer.
Has Paddy ever used his regulators? I never caught him at it.
Oh well.
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by Owell Mabee
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Owell - Okay, I'll stick my neck out. Who is/was Percy Grainger? When I first saw your post, I thought that you were referring to Percy Faith (yikes!). And I agree with you that they were trying to create a "Chamber Music" version of ITM, giving it a bit of, um, respectability, with their suits and ties and such (at least in the early days) which I think that they largely succeeded at...despite being involved in projects with such, er, "luminaries" as Mick Jagger and (urp!) Jackson Browne.
But someone please clarify their shortcomings in "sound, timing and tuning".
I move to nominate Shane MacGowan as the N.I.C. All in favor say "Aye".
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by tomw
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Percy Grainger was a composer and arranger of some note in the early part of the 20th century. Most noted for "English country garden" and arranging Londonderry air. He was trained as a musician in the Australian Army Band Corps. As an ex Bandy I had to endure playing his smaltzy sh*te and the endless lectures on him. Most notabley he suffered from oedipus syndrome, ie He had it off with his ma!!
Here endeth the lesson
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by Tassiebodhran
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Percy Grainger was also one of a small band of enthusiasts, including Cecil Sharpe and Ralph Vaughan Williams, in the beginning of the 20th century who rescued thousands of folk tunes and songs from oblivion. He was a truly virtuoso concert pianist at the international level.
He also had certain personal interests which are not suitable for discussion on this family website
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by lazyhound
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Hey guys:
Thanks (I suppose.....his Ma!!) for the information. I thought that I recognized the name. Tassie: was that Bodrahn from a kit, or did you put it together on your own?
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by tomw
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
When Chieftains 1 came out in 1963, the sound was complelling. What was on in the US was the Clancy Bros, the Dubliners. I think we owe a lot to Sean O'Raida and company for bringing Irish trad music out in the open. Remember that irish trad music was like American old timey- something that hicks or hill billys played. Granted that some of the later albums are not to everyone's taste, but that's what makes music interesting.
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by I_Fel
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Thanks for the PG bios, I was elsewhere and probably would have said something like "He was a composer."
There's a story floating around that some step-dance teacher told Paddy Maloney "We love yr music, but we can't dance to it." He replied "OK don't dance to it".
I couldn't give you a helpful answer about the shortcomings,
My yardstick is the old recordings of guys like Morrison, Coleman, Touhy, Dolan . By comparison, the Chieftains sound too uptown. (Even the early stuff) . Compared to the Celtic myst/ new age, they hold up pretty well. I lost track of them after "Boil the Breakfast, so I couldn't deliver an opinion on that. .
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by Owell Mabee
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
The Chieftains were there first, and great innovators they were too. Before Planxty et al (yes, I had Prosperous), the choice was the Makems (pre- reformation), the Dubliners, the Kilfenora Ceilidh Band, a few soloists (very good as often as not), arrangements like Sean O'Riada- and the Chieftains. Maddy Polony and the others were trad musicians, not classical- read the Chieftains book, the first half of which is worthwhile, and gives you some of the flkavour of the music scene in Dublin in the early 60s.
As pop personalities (that's the second half of the book), they had to maintain and develop the original approach, and moved parallel to the Planxty/ Bothy Band etc. developments, on to the eclectic international music that characterised their later stuff. And by then they were the establishment, but fair play to them, and to Sean O'Riada, for giving UK sessions such a kickstart.
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by LastToFinish
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
The Cheiftains music always reminded me of my Ma, but not for the same reasons as above !
It is like the sort of watered down stuff that other people think is 'real trad', we all know that it had to be put in commercial terms to appeal to the wider audience. Thats alright but, they are all great players in their own rights, and I dont think that the Cheiftains showed this to its fullest potential. I mean what was all that business with the Corrs? Am I the only one here who thought that was definately a bit twee?
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by blas
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I like their early stuff - I still listen to one of their earliest ones - 3 I think....its great.
Early Chieftans over Solas, Flook, Deiseal, Fused, Wired etc any day of the week. IMHO
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by Hugo Chavez
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I liked the Chieftains 1 - 5
I think 10 was quite good as well, not sure about the rest.
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by Conán McDonnell
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I tend to like the 'guest star' stuff less than when they stick to their own group sound--and unfortunately, that guest star stuff seems to be spreading among the larger groups--Cherish the Ladies, Altan and others are tending to pack their albums with a few too many other folks along the way, and it tends to undermine the group's identity and personality after a while.
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I think most people here would agree that the later Chieftains albums have suffered from all the collaborations with pop stars. What I would like to say about their earlier material, though, is that they did indeed often try to be a chamber music group--which I find interesting every once in a while. For instance, that's why they always made sure to play a few tunes by Carolan on each album. Or, if you listen to Chieftains 8, Lady Hamilton sounds like Irish Baroque. Their chamber-music approach also explains why Paddy Moloney enjoyed putting together long "suites" of tunes, such as the Foxhunter's, Sea Image, etc. Whether you like it or not, their approach to traditional music was innovational, and in my opinion each of the albums until #10 or so is great.
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by smw
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning AND JOKES!
why did the chicken cross the road?
to record with the chieftans.
what do you get if you cross a piper with 24 guest musicians?
a chieftans album.
sorry but couldn't resist!
martin.
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by martin t
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
very witty....
I think the chieftains are great musicians - though I don't know every album they recorded.
but I like water from the well very much. and that song they recorded with the Corrs, "I know my love" - maybe I am peculiar but I think it's just great.
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by mairie
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I have news for tomw, all traditional, ceoltas types wore suits, shirts and ties, and many of them still do. Mind you the Beatles who arrived at the same time as the Chieftains wore suit, shirts and ties.
All that t-shirts and jeans bit was brought in by those inspired by the Chieftains, as society changed. I mean, only workmen wore jeans.
And blas, it was a long time before the Chieftains got round to the Corrs. Their early stuff inspired thousands of real session players, they were heroes and bloody good musicians, and seeing them live was a big thing. I am going back to Sean Potts and Michael Tubridy days, the 60s stuff, these people deserve credit.
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I agree with several others that the first few albums were the best. I love Bonaparte’s Retreat, but mainly for the vocals by Dolores, herself. Some of the guest star stuff worked okay; some didn’t. I wish they (meaning Paddy, I guess) would let Kevin Conneff sing more.
To my ears, there’s sometimes a vague sense of restraint or too much control, as if they’re holding back as much as they’re giving. Or something like that. I’m probably not making sense.
# Posted on March 7th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
This week, National Public Radio in the USA has a radio interview, and some tunes, with the Chieftains:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5244695
Click on "Listen" to hear the show.
# Posted on March 8th 2006 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
Hey bliss: Yes, you're correct. I had a friend that was a jazz musician around the same time that the Chieftains were starting out, and things were certainly different then. And yes, they do deserve credit.
Will, thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
# Posted on March 8th 2006 by tomw
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
It was the jazz players who started dressing down first - I remember hearing Humphrey Lyttleton reminiscing about his early days, and he claimed to have played Manchester Free Trade Hall in about 1947 wearing a sweater with a hole in it !
Now that was rebellion. That was a political statement.
Everybody else did go about in a collar and tie back then.
To agree with everyone else, the early Chieftain albums were groundbreaking, but you can't keep that up for ever.
# Posted on March 8th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Their sound, TIMING and TUNING
Hi all, these threads are like exam questions, so many people end up ignoring the question that was asked.....! Hope this thread is still alive.
As I said at the start, to my ears the timing and tuning can be suspect, which upsets me. Does this come through for others?
Also I'm amazed nobody has come out with the "how dare you criticise them!" line. Does anyone think they are a musical dictatorship and if so why hasn't te revolution happened???
# Posted on March 8th 2006 by lysaghtm
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I don’t recall noticing anything peculiar about their timing or tuning, but it’s been a long time since I listened to those old LP’s. What I do remember is that a lot of it after the first couple of albums sounds like soundtrack music, like they’re hanging the tune on a script instead of getting inside the tune. Or maybe like music that’s being sight-read. Maybe that does involve timing.
But I don’t want to seem too critical, because some of the tracks are great. I learned some nice tunes off the first few albums.
I can't hold any of their commecrial success against them, but I wish the entertainment industry at large would acknowledge that there’s a lot more to Irish trad music than the Chieftains. Is there only room for one band to get big-time attention?
# Posted on March 8th 2006 by Bob himself
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I don’t think you’re a heretic. Chieftains 9/Boil the Breakfast Early was the first “Irish” album I ever bought back in the day and introduced me to the music. I was captivated by the sound. Recently obtained a CD of it. Listened to it a few times and put it on the shelf. Just doesn’t compare to Paddy Canny or Mary McNamara. Or old 78 repros of Morrison and Coleman. Maybe because I try to actually play the music now and listen from a slightly different perspective. Of the Chieftain’s collaborative albums, I think Long Black Veil is the most interesting. They’re clearly giants, incredible musicians and great ambassadors, but to my taste these days, they lack salt. Please understand, I don’t say this to bash them. But I can understand why they might not appear on someone’s top five, especially on this board of rarified tastes.
But as far as a “lack of precision” in timing and tuning, lysaghtm. all I can say is, wow, you must go to awesome sessions!
# Posted on March 8th 2006 by fidkid
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I played at the Free Trade hall wearing a hole with a sweater in it, I think, as that was in my alco days.
# Posted on March 9th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
I am an American, born & bred. Have been listening to
and playing ITM for 30 years now, and I have to admit
that I have always found the Chieftains to be overproduced,
(that is to say musically "busy"). I cannot get a heartfelt
"groove" from any of their toons, fast or slow. I think theirs
is a case of too much going on at the same time.
# Posted on March 12th 2006 by hauke
Re: The Chieftains, their sound, timing and tuning
The Chieftains did for Irish music what the Kingston Trio did for folk music (with less spin), and suffered much of the same abuse from the traditionalists. In the realm of guest artists they were again out front, and don't lose touch with them if you want to know "what's next?" They have an interesting special airing this week. If you can't find it elsewhere, I'll be playing it this Wednesday on "Wheels of the World" on KAOSradio.org from 10 - noon PST.
# Posted on March 13th 2006 by BurtDaBard