Has anyone ever done a study, formal or informal, about how many people out there are playing Irish trad music? I'm thinking of a break down by county: Ireland, America, Australia.
If anyone could point me in direction to such a thing, I'd be grateful.
Not to mention the distinction between irish traditional musicians, and musicians playing irish traditional music.
Yes, someone point me to the ballpark, or can I take a raincheck ?
Hey I wonder if there's a gene for Irish musicianship. That would make things easier. Well, I mean you'd still have to test the entire world population, but hey, at least you'd be able to obtain a definitive answer as to whether they were, in fact, true Irish musicians.
Unfortunately, it's a bit meaningless. It doesn't tell you how many *good* players there are, although that's a matter of personal opinion. Or about the various styles of Irish music? Or as someone suggested, the fact that many musicians will play Irish tunes but they're not necessarily Irish trad players.
Are we talking about professional gigging musicians or just those who play(however badly or often) in a session?
I think they're being mean to you, Katherine.
So to get you started, here's a review of The village of Goring.
There's me, and there's a bloke (M) who has borrowed my fiddle (He's had it 2 years now, but I bet it's never even been out of the case - though that's probably better than me having it and upsetting the cats again). But I don't know about him playing Irish music - he plays/played a couple of tunes, but mostly he plays Scottish, and even the Irish stuff sounds Scottish to me. This is probably because his wife (actually his ex-wife as she ran off with a fellow from up the hill, which is one reason he doesn't feel much like playing these days) is Scottish and he used to spend a lot of time North of the border. Then there's a lady (L) who IS Scottish, but plays a few Irish tunes, but not really up to session standard. Then there's (A) - a great fiddler, but he's gone over to the dark side and now plays jazz almost exclusively, though I did manage to coax a couple of proper tunes out of him at the last Jazz on a Summer's day (last September). When his son (B) is home that's another one, and of course he brings his girlfriend (A) from Dublin, where she lives, though from the point of view of your survey you might want to include her in Germany which is where she comes from and still spends some time - she's a great b/c box player though. Then there's (S) who plays guitar and banjo, but he's just left the village and has taken a flat near the river in Reading. He plays mostly old tymey stuff now, on acccount of the poor company he's fallen in with.
Sorry Katherine, I forgot to mention, there's (F), who is married to (S) who's not currently in the village. She has been known to play the spoons until she is stopped.
I don't know if you want to include her in your survey.
Mark
I remember hearing a similar sort of survey on religious observance, with equal possibility for chaos; some regular church-goers were not at church that day, some went to another church instead, some went to the same one twice or more than one different one in the same day. Some people didn't want to give their name or be counted, others were over-enthusiastic in their attempts to be noticed.
As an example, if we were to use the session data on this site, there are two on this site because I pput them there, plus I know of one ITM and two more diverse sessions, within about three mlies of me, that aren't even on this website, just as a starter. A couple of the sessios can vary between 3 and 20 performers, from time to time.
I am in America, and getting ready to play Danny Boy, When Irish Eyes Are Smiling, Whiskey in the Jar, and The Wild Rover for folks on Saint Patrick's Day. That makes me an Irish musician, right?
ho ho ho
Seriously......where's the starting point ? I suppose the obvious one would be CCE membership but I'm unsure if their records are accessible and, if so, would provide you with the demographic data etc. for your survey.
Then there are non-CCE musicians. Personally, I know more musicians who are not affiliated to any group, organisation etc.
Accounting for these types is nigh impossible.
Maybe you would have to restrict your survey to CCE members,(many are not musicians, another obstacle) online sites (many musicians don't possess computers). I give up ! ......the mind boggles and it is Monday, sorry. ;)
Sorry to be boring guys but here's a sensible answer fiddle_around!
Why not contact Comhaltas headquarters & ask for their membership details, worldwide.
That'd give you a fair idea of percentages.
Then just double or treble those figures, per country, to get a realistic idea of numbers - possibly!
Plus I have this tune bugging me for the past week. Anybody help me with a name. I've got most of the tune but missing a few bars. My ABC is not 100% :
Reel, Eminor, I think, maybe EDorian Opening five bars :
Beat you to it though Ptarmigan, just by a whisker You see above post re: "bugging reel". That's the same tune I emailed you but I had lower case for upper and vice verse. I've never used ABC so maybe above is a wee bit dodgy.
Many thanks Dow, that's the tune I'm after. I used to play it but heard it recently on the radio and couldn't get a few bars without going into another tune. I've just looked at the sheet music and my misery is no more ! Whoopee
I like the survey . . . . . . it most be post test syndrome . . .
I don't really see the point in knowing the numbers because as so many have already said - how do we classify people? For that matter what gives us the right to classify people? Besides there are over 22 million people in my homestate alone - I don't want to ask all of them if they are Irish musicians or musicians who play Irish music . I'd much rather just play music with the people who show up and not worry about counting them - quality not quantity.
How 'bout we do a survey for the number of people who are more interested in being exclusive and casting forth the clueless posers than actually playing tunes and enjoying the music?
I personally could not give a d@mn if I show up on somebody's list of "legit Irish musician" or not. I'll play the tunes I like regardless. I like Flook! and bodhrans too, so I suppose there's no hope for me.
"I can't believe that some trad-head hasn't done it yet."
Why on earth would any 'trad-head' want to do something like that - it's more up the street of some 'stat-head'.
"traditional musicians" are people who are interested in playing traditional music.
People who are interested in statistics / numbers etc are something different.
Granted it is possible to be both of these things - but if we start bringing our other hobbies into this site we'll have people advocating the playing of jigs at the top of mountains in scotland over 3000 ft. Munrobaggerjiggers.
Or people who want to combine the playing of reels with sechond hand car trading - WheelDealReelers.
I so agree. I mean what next?! Maybe church involvements? Your dogs? Ornithological observations? Playing for The Splendid Shilling Country Dance Band? Wandering along at night staring open mouthed at the stars?!!! Collecting unusual plants? Growing cactus from seed? Reading (and occasionally writing) poetry? Solving the crossword puzzle in the Guardian? Or maybe even visiting theSession.org. How's that last one for a hobby
When you guys go to a session, do you 'ONLY' talk about tunes all night? Boooooooooooring
Personally, I'd love to hear more about this - "The Splendid Shilling Country Dance Band"
Don't listen to these 'grumpy old men' fiddle_around. The brilliant thing about ITM is that it accepts all sorts, all types, all creeds, all colours ...Basically, it's a multi-dimensional entity & proud of the fact!
Now - "Munrobaggerjiggers." - brilliant idea Showaddy! Now where did I leave my finger-less mittens ..............................
"The brilliant thing about ITM is that it accepts all sorts, all types, all creeds, all colours ...Basically, it's a multi-dimensional entity & proud of the fact!"
Bollox is it - it might like to think so but in fact it's incredibly intolerant and snobby.
Irish Musicians Census??
Irish Musicians Census??
Has anyone ever done a study, formal or informal, about how many people out there are playing Irish trad music? I'm thinking of a break down by county: Ireland, America, Australia.
If anyone could point me in direction to such a thing, I'd be grateful.
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by fiddle_around
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
LOL this website cracks me up
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Dow
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Or a survey about how many people *think* they're playing Irish traditional music?
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Not to mention the distinction between irish traditional musicians, and musicians playing irish traditional music.
Yes, someone point me to the ballpark, or can I take a raincheck ?
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
The easiest way to gather data would be to pinpoint Irish musicians by satellite.
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Dow
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Hey I wonder if there's a gene for Irish musicianship. That would make things easier. Well, I mean you'd still have to test the entire world population, but hey, at least you'd be able to obtain a definitive answer as to whether they were, in fact, true Irish musicians.
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Dow
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
this will be one of those questions that will likely be the start of the new revolution. let sleeping dogs lie and never disturb the disturbed.
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by newfie percussionist
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Maybe inserting microchips at inaugural sessions might be helpful with the stats. It could be a fun ritual too. On a rethink, nah.
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Strathfoyle
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Here Dow. Less of your facist/racist nonsense here!
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
I think it's a great question!!
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by fiddle_around
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
I can't believe that some trad-head hasn't done it yet.
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by fiddle_around
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Unfortunately, it's a bit meaningless. It doesn't tell you how many *good* players there are, although that's a matter of personal opinion. Or about the various styles of Irish music? Or as someone suggested, the fact that many musicians will play Irish tunes but they're not necessarily Irish trad players.
Are we talking about professional gigging musicians or just those who play(however badly or often) in a session?
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
I think they're being mean to you, Katherine.
So to get you started, here's a review of The village of Goring.
There's me, and there's a bloke (M) who has borrowed my fiddle (He's had it 2 years now, but I bet it's never even been out of the case - though that's probably better than me having it and upsetting the cats again). But I don't know about him playing Irish music - he plays/played a couple of tunes, but mostly he plays Scottish, and even the Irish stuff sounds Scottish to me. This is probably because his wife (actually his ex-wife as she ran off with a fellow from up the hill, which is one reason he doesn't feel much like playing these days) is Scottish and he used to spend a lot of time North of the border. Then there's a lady (L) who IS Scottish, but plays a few Irish tunes, but not really up to session standard. Then there's (A) - a great fiddler, but he's gone over to the dark side and now plays jazz almost exclusively, though I did manage to coax a couple of proper tunes out of him at the last Jazz on a Summer's day (last September). When his son (B) is home that's another one, and of course he brings his girlfriend (A) from Dublin, where she lives, though from the point of view of your survey you might want to include her in Germany which is where she comes from and still spends some time - she's a great b/c box player though. Then there's (S) who plays guitar and banjo, but he's just left the village and has taken a flat near the river in Reading. He plays mostly old tymey stuff now, on acccount of the poor company he's fallen in with.
I hope that's enough to get you started.
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Ottery
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Sorry Katherine, I forgot to mention, there's (F), who is married to (S) who's not currently in the village. She has been known to play the spoons until she is stopped.
I don't know if you want to include her in your survey.
Mark
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Ottery
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
100,000 i guess
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Ripthecalico
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
I remember hearing a similar sort of survey on religious observance, with equal possibility for chaos; some regular church-goers were not at church that day, some went to another church instead, some went to the same one twice or more than one different one in the same day. Some people didn't want to give their name or be counted, others were over-enthusiastic in their attempts to be noticed.
As an example, if we were to use the session data on this site, there are two on this site because I pput them there, plus I know of one ITM and two more diverse sessions, within about three mlies of me, that aren't even on this website, just as a starter. A couple of the sessios can vary between 3 and 20 performers, from time to time.
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
I am in America, and getting ready to play Danny Boy, When Irish Eyes Are Smiling, Whiskey in the Jar, and The Wild Rover for folks on Saint Patrick's Day. That makes me an Irish musician, right?
ho ho ho
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Seriously......where's the starting point ? I suppose the obvious one would be CCE membership but I'm unsure if their records are accessible and, if so, would provide you with the demographic data etc. for your survey.
Then there are non-CCE musicians. Personally, I know more musicians who are not affiliated to any group, organisation etc.
Accounting for these types is nigh impossible.
Maybe you would have to restrict your survey to CCE members,(many are not musicians, another obstacle) online sites (many musicians don't possess computers). I give up ! ......the mind boggles and it is Monday, sorry. ;)
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Strathfoyle
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Sorry to be boring guys but here's a sensible answer fiddle_around!
Why not contact Comhaltas headquarters & ask for their membership details, worldwide.
That'd give you a fair idea of percentages.
Then just double or treble those figures, per country, to get a realistic idea of numbers - possibly!
Website: http://www.comhaltas.com/
E-mail: enquiries@comhaltas.com
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
SNAP! - Great minds think alike, eh Strathfoyle!
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Plus I have this tune bugging me for the past week. Anybody help me with a name. I've got most of the tune but missing a few bars. My ABC is not 100% :
Reel, Eminor, I think, maybe EDorian Opening five bars :
EbG#b/aF#DD/dc#ba/beec#/ddf#d/aF#dF#/
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Strathfoyle
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Beare Island
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Dow
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Can we include bodhran players in this census?
Root them all out and send them to *Bear* Island.
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Johannes J
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Beat you to it though Ptarmigan, just by a whisker
You see above post re: "bugging reel". That's the same tune I emailed you but I had lower case for upper and vice verse. I've never used ABC so maybe above is a wee bit dodgy.
Somebody HELP please
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Strathfoyle
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
I thought I just did
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Dow
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Hey Strathfoyle, I think I have a few more whiskers than you, ya boy ye!
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Many thanks Dow, that's the tune I'm after. I used to play it but heard it recently on the radio and couldn't get a few bars without going into another tune. I've just looked at the sheet music and my misery is no more ! Whoopee
What a site! Cheers!
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Strathfoyle
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Hey John J, why pick on the Bears?
http://www.causewaymusic.co.uk/spare_the_bears.html
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Sorry guys for going off topic.
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Strathfoyle
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Aye, what a disgraceful way to behave Strathfoyle! You'd never catch me doing that!
Glad you got your tune!
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
But I'm a "newbie", Pt. You ought to know better
There I go again. You're talking me into trouble 
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Strathfoyle
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
http://www.fraynework.com/face/
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by ecidralla
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
OK, OK. I've designed a survey. Check it out at:
http://merg.umassd.edu/~gmartin/survey/survey2.htm
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by GaryAMartin
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Whatever anyone comes up with - don't believe it.
I believe that as much as 93.7% of all statistical information is actually just made up on the spot.
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by Col Arco
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
No, it's more like 97.3 % . . .
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by musicfan
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
I like the survey . . .
. . . it most be post test syndrome . . .
I don't really see the point in knowing the numbers because as so many have already said - how do we classify people? For that matter what gives us the right to classify people? Besides there are over 22 million people in my homestate alone - I don't want to ask all of them if they are Irish musicians or musicians who play Irish music
. I'd much rather just play music with the people who show up and not worry about counting them - quality not quantity.
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by musicfan
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Nice one, Gary!
# Posted on February 27th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
How 'bout we do a survey for the number of people who are more interested in being exclusive and casting forth the clueless posers than actually playing tunes and enjoying the music?
I personally could not give a d@mn if I show up on somebody's list of "legit Irish musician" or not. I'll play the tunes I like regardless. I like Flook! and bodhrans too, so I suppose there's no hope for me.
# Posted on February 28th 2006 by wormdiet
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
I wonder how many people are playing ITM (or attempting) as opposed to people that just enjoy listening.
# Posted on February 28th 2006 by Phantom Button
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
. . . and while we're about it, just how many Bear Island's are there?
only as i found a reference to a small one off Norway discovered by William Barents in 1596, his crew killing a polar bear there
# Posted on February 28th 2006 by lisaniska
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
You could always take the 23525 members here & multiply them by.................................
# Posted on February 28th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
"I can't believe that some trad-head hasn't done it yet."
Why on earth would any 'trad-head' want to do something like that - it's more up the street of some 'stat-head'.
"traditional musicians" are people who are interested in playing traditional music.
People who are interested in statistics / numbers etc are something different.
Granted it is possible to be both of these things - but if we start bringing our other hobbies into this site we'll have people advocating the playing of jigs at the top of mountains in scotland over 3000 ft. Munrobaggerjiggers.
Or people who want to combine the playing of reels with sechond hand car trading - WheelDealReelers.
Where will it end?
# Posted on February 28th 2006 by showaddydadito
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
I so agree. I mean what next?! Maybe church involvements? Your dogs? Ornithological observations? Playing for The Splendid Shilling Country Dance Band? Wandering along at night staring open mouthed at the stars?!!! Collecting unusual plants? Growing cactus from seed? Reading (and occasionally writing) poetry? Solving the crossword puzzle in the Guardian? Or maybe even visiting theSession.org. How's that last one for a hobby
# Posted on February 28th 2006 by Dow
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Oh! Your all sooooo one dimensional!
When you guys go to a session, do you 'ONLY' talk about tunes all night? Boooooooooooring
Personally, I'd love to hear more about this - "The Splendid Shilling Country Dance Band"
Don't listen to these 'grumpy old men' fiddle_around. The brilliant thing about ITM is that it accepts all sorts, all types, all creeds, all colours ...Basically, it's a multi-dimensional entity & proud of the fact!
Now - "Munrobaggerjiggers." - brilliant idea Showaddy! Now where did I leave my finger-less mittens ..............................
# Posted on February 28th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
"The brilliant thing about ITM is that it accepts all sorts, all types, all creeds, all colours ...Basically, it's a multi-dimensional entity & proud of the fact!"
Bollox is it - it might like to think so but in fact it's incredibly intolerant and snobby.
# Posted on February 28th 2006 by Dow
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Yay!
# Posted on February 28th 2006 by Clear Drops
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
"it might like to think so but in fact it's incredibly intolerant and snobby"
That's just what you'd expect from an emigrant concertina player. Huh! who needs them around here?
# Posted on February 28th 2006 by showaddydadito
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
Then there's the bad tempered ramblers who play polkas: The Sulker Polka Walkers.
# Posted on February 28th 2006 by showaddydadito
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
That's only funny when you have an English accent.
# Posted on March 1st 2006 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Irish Musicians Census??
what's an English accent then?
# Posted on April 29th 2006 by lisaniska