Can anyone advise me how to instill a better sense of rhythm into a beginner.
My friend has 100% enthusiasm, listens most attentively and loves the music, but seems to lack any sense or feel for rhythm.
She even finds it difficult to tap her foot in time.
Any constructive advice would be much appreciated.
Play the tunes she knows very slow with her, Put emphasis on the beat by tapping your foot . Most begginners try and play fast and their concentration on the fingers and the bow seems to overload their brain.
Being able to dance is also great for developing an understanding of the rythm.
When I was teaching the bodhrán I had some real hopeless cases. I tried to convince them that everyone had a sense of timing. As an example I asked them to count to 4.
When I explained that you count with measured intervals between the numbers, e.g 1...2...3..4... rather than 1,2 ..........3......4...and that's just how music works, it seemed to help some of them.
Get her to clap in time with the music rather than use her foot; that can wait.
I observed a notable flute player use this teaching method. She put down her own flute and moved to the piano. She accompanied the student with heavy vamps that accentuated the beat and the problem, almost immediately, went away. After they were done she said - you won't be able to ignore, or run over, that!
I also know a student who, realizing they had a problem, took some drum lessons from a teacher who was informed in advance of what the student needed to accomplish.
I agree with murcu--take her to ceilidhes--dancing is the ultimate way to learn the rhythm. A metronome, used correctly, can help (but it can also become a crutch if overused).
Dance, dance, and dance again.
Mind you though, some young people can't hear the rhythm in ITM, or STM or ETM, for that matter.
My SO doesn't dance comfortably, and has never played for dancing, and always stops and apologises after a wrong note. I do tell her you can't do that for dancers.
I think a metronome should only be used sparingly, and dropped at the first available opportunity.
Can I tell you again about the lass who came to our session, with the bodhran, who, for a jig, would play 1,2,3,#,1,2,3,# - i.e. three beats and a rest in a 4/4 time.
Now that WAS hard to play against.
I claim the prize for most commas in one sentence.
Anyway, taking the student to a ceili might be helpful. Listening to ceili band CDs might help too. The Tulla Ceili Band 50 year reunion CD is mighty stuff.
Singing is still the best way to teach musicians - tThere are various songs here and there on this site to teach rhythms. One that stuck in my mind was cleverly along the lines of
This is a tune called the goose in the pratie-hole
This is a tune that begins on F#
This is a tune you can play on accordion,
fiddle or whistle, banjo or harp
Rhythm needs to be internalized naturally in my opinion. The amount of listening one does seperates the good players from the not so good players so I would advize you to have your friend listen to as much as humanly possible to get the music and the rhythm in her/his head. Eventually foot tapping and good rhythm will follow sooner or later...
Making a contrived rhythm learning process like a metronome or something like that is fairly useless and can sometimes be damaging.
It damages your street cred, is all. A metronome won't hurt you, and if your rhythm isn't that great, it'll definitely help.
One problem a fair few adult beginners have, is that the rhythm they hear in their head doesn't translate into reality - it's a time perception thing that has to be learned, and metronomes are fairly useful tools to help achieve parity.
I'd agree with that, Q - why not use a metronome if it helps, and if you wear a fancy electronic one on a gold chain I believe it can only help your street cred.
But seriously, as with all things, if it works for someone they should use it, no?
play the patty-cake-patty-cake-bakers-square game with her using a metronome. and when she misses a beat, slap her up side the head for a little nagative reinforcement ;)
Ceilis?
shudder.
I know drummers with bad timing.
If you have good timing you won't need to tap your foot ,although its optional,it's not a necessity.
tapping your foot doesn't keep you in time.
Who keeps your foot in time.
Are you as quick with your feet as you are with your fingers?
Practice with a metronome on the on beat,then on the back beat.
Practice with various swings so you are better at locking into different styles.
And practice at various tempos especially very slow ones.
tick tick tick.
People have their comfort zones.
this kind of work will soon work out the glitches with noticable improvements in a couple of days even.
Steve Cooney used to use a drum machine because he found a metronome boring,and he is so TIGHT only dogs can hear his farts
Teaching rhythm/timing
Teaching rhythm/timing
Can anyone advise me how to instill a better sense of rhythm into a beginner.
My friend has 100% enthusiasm, listens most attentively and loves the music, but seems to lack any sense or feel for rhythm.
She even finds it difficult to tap her foot in time.
Any constructive advice would be much appreciated.
Tag
# Posted on February 10th 2006 by tag
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
Play the tunes she knows very slow with her, Put emphasis on the beat by tapping your foot . Most begginners try and play fast and their concentration on the fingers and the bow seems to overload their brain.
Being able to dance is also great for developing an understanding of the rythm.
# Posted on February 10th 2006 by murcu
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
Beat it into her.
OK maybe not.
When I was teaching the bodhrán I had some real hopeless cases. I tried to convince them that everyone had a sense of timing. As an example I asked them to count to 4.
When I explained that you count with measured intervals between the numbers, e.g 1...2...3..4... rather than 1,2 ..........3......4...and that's just how music works, it seemed to help some of them.
Get her to clap in time with the music rather than use her foot; that can wait.
# Posted on February 10th 2006 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
I observed a notable flute player use this teaching method. She put down her own flute and moved to the piano. She accompanied the student with heavy vamps that accentuated the beat and the problem, almost immediately, went away. After they were done she said - you won't be able to ignore, or run over, that!
I also know a student who, realizing they had a problem, took some drum lessons from a teacher who was informed in advance of what the student needed to accomplish.
# Posted on February 10th 2006 by Stevie C
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
I agree with murcu--take her to ceilidhes--dancing is the ultimate way to learn the rhythm. A metronome, used correctly, can help (but it can also become a crutch if overused).
# Posted on February 10th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
Many thanks for the replies so far!
# Posted on February 10th 2006 by tag
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
Dance, dance, and dance again.
Mind you though, some young people can't hear the rhythm in ITM, or STM or ETM, for that matter.
My SO doesn't dance comfortably, and has never played for dancing, and always stops and apologises after a wrong note. I do tell her you can't do that for dancers.
I think a metronome should only be used sparingly, and dropped at the first available opportunity.
# Posted on February 10th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
tee he, that's a good one ...
"I know a student who, realizing they had a problem, took some drum lessons"
Bodhran Bliss, take notes ...
getting the rhythm right is ONE of the the steps to playing music
# Posted on February 10th 2006 by ...
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
Can I tell you again about the lass who came to our session, with the bodhran, who, for a jig, would play 1,2,3,#,1,2,3,# - i.e. three beats and a rest in a 4/4 time.
Now that WAS hard to play against.
I claim the prize for most commas in one sentence.
# Posted on February 10th 2006 by showaddydadito
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
OMG that's hilarious.
How 'bout the wannabeDonnchaGoughs who sound like:
WHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHackitywhackitywhackitywhackitywhackitywhackitywhackitywhackitywhackitywhackitywhackitywhACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYtippitytappitytippitytappitytippitytappityWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYtippitytappitytippitytappitytippitytappityWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITY
{big finish}
WHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACKITYWHACK.
Anyway, taking the student to a ceili might be helpful. Listening to ceili band CDs might help too. The Tulla Ceili Band 50 year reunion CD is mighty stuff.
# Posted on February 10th 2006 by Hanley
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
Singing is still the best way to teach musicians - tThere are various songs here and there on this site to teach rhythms. One that stuck in my mind was cleverly along the lines of
This is a tune called the goose in the pratie-hole
This is a tune that begins on F#
This is a tune you can play on accordion,
fiddle or whistle, banjo or harp
# Posted on February 10th 2006 by geoffwright
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
Rhythm needs to be internalized naturally in my opinion. The amount of listening one does seperates the good players from the not so good players so I would advize you to have your friend listen to as much as humanly possible to get the music and the rhythm in her/his head. Eventually foot tapping and good rhythm will follow sooner or later...
Making a contrived rhythm learning process like a metronome or something like that is fairly useless and can sometimes be damaging.
# Posted on February 11th 2006 by JackMurphy
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
In what way 'damaging' - why, how?
# Posted on February 11th 2006 by five
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
It damages your street cred, is all. A metronome won't hurt you, and if your rhythm isn't that great, it'll definitely help.
One problem a fair few adult beginners have, is that the rhythm they hear in their head doesn't translate into reality - it's a time perception thing that has to be learned, and metronomes are fairly useful tools to help achieve parity.
# Posted on February 11th 2006 by Q
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
I'd agree with that, Q - why not use a metronome if it helps, and if you wear a fancy electronic one on a gold chain I believe it can only help your street cred.
But seriously, as with all things, if it works for someone they should use it, no?
# Posted on February 11th 2006 by hurleystick
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
play the patty-cake-patty-cake-bakers-square game with her using a metronome. and when she misses a beat, slap her up side the head for a little nagative reinforcement ;)
# Posted on February 11th 2006 by Brendan
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
The only waty a metronome ever hurt anybody is because they stuck their eye in that swingy part.
Sit up straight.
# Posted on February 13th 2006 by Owell Mabee
Re: Teaching rhythm/timing
Ceilis?
shudder.
I know drummers with bad timing.
If you have good timing you won't need to tap your foot ,although its optional,it's not a necessity.
tapping your foot doesn't keep you in time.
Who keeps your foot in time.
Are you as quick with your feet as you are with your fingers?
Practice with a metronome on the on beat,then on the back beat.
Practice with various swings so you are better at locking into different styles.
And practice at various tempos especially very slow ones.
tick tick tick.
People have their comfort zones.
this kind of work will soon work out the glitches with noticable improvements in a couple of days even.
Steve Cooney used to use a drum machine because he found a metronome boring,and he is so TIGHT only dogs can hear his farts
# Posted on February 14th 2006 by P.browne