You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Has this happened to you - somebody starts up a tune you know well, but it's in a different key to what you're used to? How do you feel when this happens:
a) Intrigued by the new tonal colouring and happy to sit back and listen
b) Upset and frustrated that you can't join in
c) Angry with the person playing for showing off or being deliberately obtuse
d) Keen to see if you can rise to the challenge and transpose your playing on the fly
e) Amused by everybody else's reactions (A through D)
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
C) does happen and it can be very annoying. Especially when it's an ocarina playing a Bm tune in Eb minor.
Mostly, I don't really mind and accept it. It's not uncommon for Irish musicians to play many of the Scottish tunes in G instead of A or fiddlers to play in either D or A. It's only a string of a difference, usually. Normally, I can transpose fairly easily under these circumstances. I can also understand that a Highland piper will play a semi tone sharper too.
It's only really the first type of scenario I mentioned that really bugs me.
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I like it - it's sort of fun, and (once you've sussed out what the mysterious new tune is) it's nice to just relax and see if pops out of the flute in the new key (A good sign you actually do have the tune internalised) ....
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Depends. On fiddle, I can often transpose on the fly, and I enjoy seeing how the new key suggests different ideas for the tune. (The flip side of this is that I try to pick flute-friendly keys when playing with a fluter, etc.) But I'm not near as experienced doing this as I'd like to be, and some keys (Eb) still throw me for a loop. I wish I had more time in a day to play around with moving tunes through various keys (though I'm also surprised when I think about how many tunes I *have* tinkered with in different keys).
Fiddle seems better suited to this than most of the other usual session instruments, although I would imagine transposing comes fairly easily on piano accordion and maybe fully keyed flute. And a whistle playing friend has no problem, since he always has his rifle case of a thousand whistles at his side....
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
A fun thing to do is to play a tune traditionally in A, a tone down.
Start it up in G - get a kick out of people going through the stages of recognition, confusion, realisation and then into one of the options listed above, and then on the second time through kick it back up to A. The one-key-up change can be a great lift!
Might be a good idea to get the backer in on it beforehand.
Also, be careful not to get teeth punched in for being a smarty pants, like that one time I did all that with McCusker's Frank's Reel.
PS - multi-whistle players aren't allowed to play this joke, cos there's no art to picking up a different sized whistle. Sorry guys, that's just how it is.
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Could be B and C, if they're being obtuse. Do have a "musician" friend, who is actually running one small session, maybe not what some of us would call a session, and insists on re-arranging things on her keyboard, ( like, a piano ), or playing something on a C whistle, or a G tune on a G whistle. Incredibly enough, her degree is from Dublin.
Can usually cheat on the 'zouk with a capo anyway, so option D is not too much of a problem.
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Fortunately, this doesn't happen that much around here, although there are a few tunes (Humors of Tullah in G or D and Foxhunters in G or A) where this happens.
This is why, unless I know what is coming next or the key is called out for me, I generally pause at the beginning of a tune. From a musical standpoint, I think it makes more sense to add things as a tune goes on than to subtract things (especially if you are subtracting something because it didn't fit!). And I always wait a full time around, unless I recognize the tune instantly--figuring out the A part in this music may or may not properly prepare you for the B part.
What gets me is the folks that will call out the wrong key. You know the type--if there was one sharp on the page, that means G (could have been Eminor or Dmodal, but melody players often don't keep track of petty stuff like that).
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I slightly bristle when the word "wrong" is mentioned. Some of the O'Carolan tune transcriptions are in F - a problem for some people. There's an "accepted" key, often, and the "original" key....but the "wrong" key?
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I was always taught that the key the melody players was playing was the "right" key, and it was my job to follow. As a backer, I exist to serve the melody, which is King (or so I have been told).
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I'm with you there Mark. I react like 'D' - every time. Aint no such thing as wrong in my book. Strange keys can be fascinating and are great fun to get your head & fingers round & if I latch onto it quickly it's a great buzz & if not, then happy to react as in 'A'.
I don't have a problem, sitting back & listening although I may sit with my fiddle on my lap & finger along with the tune to get a feel for the new shape of the tune, just in case it crops up again in that key.
The new Northumbrian Piper who has recently joined some of our sessions plays everything in F & I'm finding that a rather strange key to play in. The notes all seem to be in the wrong place, but I do find it enjoyable trying to get my head round them, although, thankfully, he mostly plays tunes at a gentle pace.
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I actually think flute (keyed or keyless) is one of the toughest instruments to transpose on, depending on the key relationship. SOME shifts are easy, like Dmix to Amix or Dmaj to Gmaj. But once ya get out of the 5 or so friendly modes, a flute player is in uncharted territory.
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
There have been times when someone has started a tune in a different key, and I just play along wondering why the fingering does not feel quite right and only figure it out when others are sitting, glaring. But it can be fun, and good practice.
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Any or all of the above. It depends on the tune, the key, the person, whether I've had my dinner, how much sleep I've had etc. If they are playing in F minor or C#, I'm most likely to feel humbled by their ability to play in F minor or C# - unless they have a suitably pitched instrument to facilitate one of these keys. I am not averse to transposing the odd tune into C, F, Bb or Gminor, to experiment with the 'new tonal colouring'. But I like to think I would choose the time and place carefully - usually at home, when nobody else is listening, or perhaps in a small session where everybody knows me and understands where I'm coming from.
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
"PS - multi-whistle players aren't allowed to play this joke, cos there's no art to picking up a different sized whistle. Sorry guys, that's just how it is."
So it's OK if its art Q? but not OK if its just fun?
I preferred the fun times before you got so serious.
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I normally go and get another pint. Maybe that's why I get so p*ssed? For some reason when I transposed the entire "Coleman's Three" set up a semitone people thought it was so interesting they all had to down instruments and sit there in admiration.
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
But seriously Q, there's a right key for each tune, and if you haven't figured that out by now there's no hope for you. And you a flute player too. People in glass houses etc.
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
There is a reaction that hasn't been mentioned which I will list as -
f) Embarrassed, beacause you learnt it from sheet music that was written in a bloody different key to the one everybody else plays it in!!!!
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Mostly D), because it's usually me who does it by accident! :¬)
Otherwise, people tuning up to E for the "brighter tone" sometimes bugs me, if they're playing an instrument or particular tunes where the change makes no discernible difference; it's just being a totposs (reaarange the letters).
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
if you can play by ear and you learn your scales properly, keys should be irrelevant - you should be able to play in any (reasonable) key (with practise).
I like to p*ss people off by asking what key THEY want it in.
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Ooooo! This is where I get to finally gloat! Changing keys on a dulcimer is really easy. I just move my chair closer or farther away. . .until some strange dude with a sadistic streak suggest the key of E then laughs themselves into a fit watching the HD player hunt and peck for all those wierd chromatics.
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Hidely ho - I've just restrung the first fiddle I bought and it's a lump of sh*te, but it doesn't really tune up past C so all my tunes sound sweeeeet. Everything sounds sweeeeet tuned a tone low. Sigh.
You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Has this happened to you - somebody starts up a tune you know well, but it's in a different key to what you're used to? How do you feel when this happens:
a) Intrigued by the new tonal colouring and happy to sit back and listen
b) Upset and frustrated that you can't join in
c) Angry with the person playing for showing off or being deliberately obtuse
d) Keen to see if you can rise to the challenge and transpose your playing on the fly
e) Amused by everybody else's reactions (A through D)
answers on a postcard...
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by Q
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Option E . . .
Mostly because I don't have a problem with transposing stuff and I'm rarely wound up enough to get mad about people playing things in different keys.
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by musicfan
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
C) does happen and it can be very annoying. Especially when it's an ocarina playing a Bm tune in Eb minor.
Mostly, I don't really mind and accept it. It's not uncommon for Irish musicians to play many of the Scottish tunes in G instead of A or fiddlers to play in either D or A. It's only a string of a difference, usually. Normally, I can transpose fairly easily under these circumstances. I can also understand that a Highland piper will play a semi tone sharper too.
It's only really the first type of scenario I mentioned that really bugs me.
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by Johannes J
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I like it - it's sort of fun, and (once you've sussed out what the mysterious new tune is) it's nice to just relax and see if pops out of the flute in the new key (A good sign you actually do have the tune internalised) ....
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by Ottery
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Depends. On fiddle, I can often transpose on the fly, and I enjoy seeing how the new key suggests different ideas for the tune. (The flip side of this is that I try to pick flute-friendly keys when playing with a fluter, etc.) But I'm not near as experienced doing this as I'd like to be, and some keys (Eb) still throw me for a loop. I wish I had more time in a day to play around with moving tunes through various keys (though I'm also surprised when I think about how many tunes I *have* tinkered with in different keys).
Fiddle seems better suited to this than most of the other usual session instruments, although I would imagine transposing comes fairly easily on piano accordion and maybe fully keyed flute. And a whistle playing friend has no problem, since he always has his rifle case of a thousand whistles at his side....
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by Will CPT
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
A fun thing to do is to play a tune traditionally in A, a tone down.
Start it up in G - get a kick out of people going through the stages of recognition, confusion, realisation and then into one of the options listed above, and then on the second time through kick it back up to A. The one-key-up change can be a great lift!
Might be a good idea to get the backer in on it beforehand.
Also, be careful not to get teeth punched in for being a smarty pants, like that one time I did all that with McCusker's Frank's Reel.
PS - multi-whistle players aren't allowed to play this joke, cos there's no art to picking up a different sized whistle. Sorry guys, that's just how it is.
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by Q
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Could be B and C, if they're being obtuse. Do have a "musician" friend, who is actually running one small session, maybe not what some of us would call a session, and insists on re-arranging things on her keyboard, ( like, a piano ), or playing something on a C whistle, or a G tune on a G whistle. Incredibly enough, her degree is from Dublin.
Can usually cheat on the 'zouk with a capo anyway, so option D is not too much of a problem.
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I suppose that's the way it goes - if you're born out of wedlock you just don't play by the rules.....
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by hurleystick
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Fortunately, this doesn't happen that much around here, although there are a few tunes (Humors of Tullah in G or D and Foxhunters in G or A) where this happens.
This is why, unless I know what is coming next or the key is called out for me, I generally pause at the beginning of a tune. From a musical standpoint, I think it makes more sense to add things as a tune goes on than to subtract things (especially if you are subtracting something because it didn't fit!). And I always wait a full time around, unless I recognize the tune instantly--figuring out the A part in this music may or may not properly prepare you for the B part.
What gets me is the folks that will call out the wrong key. You know the type--if there was one sharp on the page, that means G (could have been Eminor or Dmodal, but melody players often don't keep track of petty stuff like that).
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by AlBrown
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I slightly bristle when the word "wrong" is mentioned. Some of the O'Carolan tune transcriptions are in F - a problem for some people. There's an "accepted" key, often, and the "original" key....but the "wrong" key?
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by Mark Harmer
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I was always taught that the key the melody players was playing was the "right" key, and it was my job to follow. As a backer, I exist to serve the melody, which is King (or so I have been told).
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by AlBrown
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I'm with you there Mark. I react like 'D' - every time. Aint no such thing as wrong in my book. Strange keys can be fascinating and are great fun to get your head & fingers round & if I latch onto it quickly it's a great buzz & if not, then happy to react as in 'A'.
I don't have a problem, sitting back & listening although I may sit with my fiddle on my lap & finger along with the tune to get a feel for the new shape of the tune, just in case it crops up again in that key.
The new Northumbrian Piper who has recently joined some of our sessions plays everything in F & I'm finding that a rather strange key to play in. The notes all seem to be in the wrong place, but I do find it enjoyable trying to get my head round them, although, thankfully, he mostly plays tunes at a gentle pace.
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
A) and E), D) on occaision.
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
and Culchies at www.OSSIANUSA.com
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by stv culchie
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I actually think flute (keyed or keyless) is one of the toughest instruments to transpose on, depending on the key relationship. SOME shifts are easy, like Dmix to Amix or Dmaj to Gmaj. But once ya get out of the 5 or so friendly modes, a flute player is in uncharted territory.
I guess the same would apply to UP's.
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by wormdiet
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
There have been times when someone has started a tune in a different key, and I just play along wondering why the fingering does not feel quite right and only figure it out when others are sitting, glaring. But it can be fun, and good practice.
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by Cath
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Any or all of the above. It depends on the tune, the key, the person, whether I've had my dinner, how much sleep I've had etc. If they are playing in F minor or C#, I'm most likely to feel humbled by their ability to play in F minor or C# - unless they have a suitably pitched instrument to facilitate one of these keys. I am not averse to transposing the odd tune into C, F, Bb or Gminor, to experiment with the 'new tonal colouring'. But I like to think I would choose the time and place carefully - usually at home, when nobody else is listening, or perhaps in a small session where everybody knows me and understands where I'm coming from.
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by ragaman
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
...not forgetting Emajor - The Maid Behind the Bar goes nicely in E.
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by ragaman
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
a little frustrated - my repertoire is rather limited - every tune counts!
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by flisstle
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
F: Break out YE OLDE SHAKY EGG and join in on the fun!
# Posted on February 1st 2006 by Ashkettle
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Play along if possible. If not, it's A or E.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by cathrynb
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Its fairly common round here especially with box players, I don't mind sitting out as there are lots of tunes to play.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Mikea
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
...that's when I head to the bar for another pint.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
"PS - multi-whistle players aren't allowed to play this joke, cos there's no art to picking up a different sized whistle. Sorry guys, that's just how it is."
So it's OK if its art Q? but not OK if its just fun?
I preferred the fun times before you got so serious.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by showaddydadito
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I normally go and get another pint. Maybe that's why I get so p*ssed? For some reason when I transposed the entire "Coleman's Three" set up a semitone people thought it was so interesting they all had to down instruments and sit there in admiration.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Just a person
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
But seriously Q, there's a right key for each tune, and if you haven't figured that out by now there's no hope for you. And you a flute player too. People in glass houses etc.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Just a person
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
There is a reaction that hasn't been mentioned which I will list as -
f) Embarrassed, beacause you learnt it from sheet music that was written in a bloody different key to the one everybody else plays it in!!!!
That has happened to me.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by octopus
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Japes, jests, jokes and tricks are serious matters, Showaddy. Can't be larking about the whole time!
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Q
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Sorry Q - you got me bang to rights.
I'll come quietly.
I realise now that you can't play at playing music.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by showaddydadito
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Mostly D), because it's usually me who does it by accident! :¬)
Otherwise, people tuning up to E for the "brighter tone" sometimes bugs me, if they're playing an instrument or particular tunes where the change makes no discernible difference; it's just being a totposs (reaarange the letters).
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Conán McDonnell
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
reaarange?
is that a Belfast accent?
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by showaddydadito
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Yeah Conan, I wish I'd a £ for every time I've dandered off into a tune in an unusual key, just because it suited the last tune!
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Dave, I put it down to a brain-fart!
Dick I know exactly where you're coming from. If looks could kill I'd've been tatie-bread a long time ago.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Conán McDonnell
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Mmmm, tatie-bread. Will have to go and buy some now. Damn you Conán.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Just a person
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Might even post Mrs Igoe's secret tatie-bread in the Recipes section.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Just a person
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I've looked all over for the recipes section, perhaps thats only available to people with lots of tunes in their tunebook.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by showaddydadito
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
if you can play by ear and you learn your scales properly, keys should be irrelevant - you should be able to play in any (reasonable) key (with practise).
I like to p*ss people off by asking what key THEY want it in.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by geoffwright
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Well since you're asking, D, G, A, Em, Am ... F on a good day.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Just a person
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Maybe we can add a Recipes section to Q's blog? What say you Q?
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Just a person
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Before I endorse anything, I'd have to sample each dish for quality control purposes.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Q
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Sure. Though obviously something like madjoul dates and marscapone would be too trivial to require it.
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Just a person
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Rules are rules, see above
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Q
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Oh no, I seem to have revealed one of the secret recipes :(
# Posted on February 2nd 2006 by Just a person
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
I'm that good it makes no difference.
# Posted on February 3rd 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Ooooo! This is where I get to finally gloat! Changing keys on a dulcimer is really easy. I just move my chair closer or farther away. . .until some strange dude with a sadistic streak suggest the key of E then laughs themselves into a fit watching the HD player hunt and peck for all those wierd chromatics.
# Posted on February 5th 2006 by jrathbun
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
f): play it anyway in the tuning you know (loudly)
# Posted on February 5th 2006 by banjobabe
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
Hidely ho - I've just restrung the first fiddle I bought and it's a lump of sh*te, but it doesn't really tune up past C so all my tunes sound sweeeeet. Everything sounds sweeeeet tuned a tone low. Sigh.
# Posted on February 7th 2006 by katiebee
Re: You're playing that in the wrong key, you bastard!
b if not d
# Posted on February 12th 2006 by Red Crow