This might sound a bit un-PC but I will take a chance in asking the following. Does anybody else share my opinion that Comhaltas should keep Irish and International Fleadhs seperate i.e. All Ireland, All British, All America, All Japan and so forth? Also, if the All Ireland were to remain open to all countries with Comhaltas branches, should a proper lineage be required? Is it right that people should be awarded for something they have no direct link to, merely just an active interest??
Hi MorrisT, welcome to TheSession. What exactly do you mean by "no direct link to"? It's not quite clear. And what's your own connection? Perhaps if you put some information into your profile we could come up with some better answers? e.g. where are you located? what do you play? how long have you been involved in Comhaltas? That kind of thing.
Or are you just a troll by any chance? Please accept my most sincere apologies if you're not
Should non-Greeks be allowed to take part in the Olympics?Couldn't care less personally. CCE has done a wonderful job of keeping tradition alive and well, and an equally wonderful job of distorting it through turning what should be cooperative (music and dance) into something competitive. It's all interesting but only semi-relevant to what really happens when we get together to enjoy ourselves.
I don't get this at all...is what Morris T and noneedforthebongo saying that it's unfair that non-Irish are winning the All Ireland Fleadh and therefore that non-Irish shouldn't be allowed in the All Ireland? *Really*?
sorry..just got caught up in the madness! Comhltas have done great work for music but i dont really have any time for competitions...the notion of qualifying music contradicts my interest. makes no odds to my music what rules are applied! nor any of the politics involved....
Ah I see, well said! This Morris man does seem to feel very strongly on the subject. But would his location, instrument of choice,how long he is connected with Comhaltas really make it easier to answer his questions, as suggested by John Gillard? i'm guessing by "no real links" Morris means no Irish blood or something?!
maybe they should start calling it the All-World fleadh, then at least the title would hold a bit more prestige, and no matter where the winner comes from everyone is happy. if not irish, they arent stealing the coveted "all-Ireland" title from the angry natives, and if they are Irish then at least Ireland win a World title in something for a change!
Oh come off it - Ive seen some bleeding brilliant non irish people playing amazing irish music and likewise absolutley crap Irish people playing Irish music. You'd say they'd still deserve to win because they just happen to be born in Ireland?
Kind of veiled racism in a way I'd guess. Nice post.
Oh and I dont really care for Comps either - but sure if thats what someone wants to do with their time then good on them - as long as it makes them happy.
Anyway - define "link" MorrisT - my father played traditional music as did his father and his father. I wasnt born in Ireland but grew up with the tunes and session in my house all of the time. Does that mean that I have no 'real link'??
Maybe poor ol morris T got robbed of a much deserved All-Ireland title by one of those horrible mean foreigeners and has turned now to pure racism and internet blaggarding?? just a guess.....
We play at the Irish pub in America.... All the staff and barstaff are from Ireland. They wont hire Americans cause it doest fit thier theme. Not one of them can play a musical anything but there irsh voices are oh so lovely...The entire session is irish americans three and 2 generations removed..... Most the time the irish kids behind the bar are rolling their eyes......Is it just me or do we non-connected 2gen removed respect and love it more. its ripe for the takin..
Dan - for a long time you couldn't get arrested playing Irish music in Ireland either. There's probably still the same small percentage that love it ... just a bigger percentage now who pay lip service cos it brings in the euros. It's still seen by many as "just" Culchie music. Speaking as a 2gen of course But one who's a bit closer, and has lived there.
In Gaelic Games New York and London play in the All Ireland championship. Wouldn't surprise me if this year's Ulster hurling final was between those two.
In all sports the Irish diaspora are called upon, the soccer team are from everywhere, they wanted Patrick McEnroe to play in the Davis Cup for Ireland, and considering that the Irish had to emigrate everywhere, the diaspora should be called on.
Makes you wonder why so many Irish people dislike immigrants.
Wow
I haven't checked the board in a while and I come across this!!--what was Morris thinking- ??
I love the first response and I agree--why? why? why!!!
sounds a bit like someone wasn't too happy with the results --but .....this was what ..5 months ago already--let it go--
Traditional Music isn't seen as "Cuclhie music", not in Tyrone anyway. Although not everyone openly indluges in it, everyone is familiar with it and will find it hard not to enjoy a session.I doubt any Irishman (or woman) would care much that a non-Irishman (or woman) may snatch the All-Ireland Fleadh from our potatoe-stained mitts, it's about Irish music, not Irish birth.
"i like bongos, but a lot of the time, there's just no need for them!"
But what would my glockenspeil orchestra be without them?
"Yeah and really don't like the use of World Championship of Baseball either, but people use it."
Once upon a time there were two popes and all of Christendom lived under excommunication by one or the other. It's the sort of nonesense that goes on when you start writing rules about things and forming orginizations to enforce them.
Just for info, it isn't the World Championship of Baseball, but The World Series, so called because it was originally sponsored by a newspaper called, you guessed it, The World...
Refering to the interleague baseball champions as the world champions predates The World Series by 9 years, although it was originally an invention of the newspapers. They do stuff like that.
And at the time it made perfect sense to do so, even if times have changed.
There was some stuff about Comhaltas on this forum a while ago, and I tried to follow all the links to work out what the flying filberts was going on; It does seem that some organisations reach a point where the internal politics completely take over and you forget why the whole thing started in the first place. In some ways you might say that their job was done, they have preserved/maintained the music, and it's back with the people ( US ! ), and stronger than ever. Are they dtill needed ? ( Heresy ! I hear you cry. )
There was that lovely spoof posting a while ago when the "old piping tutor" or whatever he claimed to be said that if you hadn't walked the cows out to the field over the frosty foggy grass in your bare feet with nothing in your stomachs but a cold potato and a slug of your father's stale porter left on the rustic kitchen table from the night before, and you couldn't remember the long years of rack-rent and famine, and the damned British repression of the bold spirit of the Irish people, and the Black-and-Tans, then you weren't qualified to even pick up an instrument ( only one of the true, pure drop, instruments, mind ) and shouldn't be allowed to even think of playing ITM ( or words to that effect ).
I was also at the Fleadh in '75 or so, and it's a funny event - the staid stiff adjudicators, the little bits of gamesmanship between the competitors, and the fine musicians who stand apart from the competitions and are only there for the craic. And there's some craic ! The general behaviour at a Fleadh, you almost wonder why CCE keeps it going. It must be deeply distressing to these retired bank managers, or whatever they are, the way the people behave at, or at least around, these events.
In March, I will be in Florida, and will have the chance to see some early spring baseball games. But rather than see my own beloved Boston Red Sox in a spring training game, I have decided to attend a World Baseball Classic game, and watch the Dominican Republic play the Aussies, where I will be rooting for the Dominican Republic. Why? Because many of my favorite Red Sox are Dominican, and will be playing on that team. It is amazing how many fine players in America come from elsewhere. It ain''t where you're from, it is how you play that matters!
In a nutshell, Pete. Well put. Brylcream, Old Spice, BO. A stoney faced panel of half a dozen of said retired bank managers, accountants and surveyors adjudicating the U-pipe playing of 10 year olds is not exactly Punk.
Hmmm. Y'know, I've never been involved in Comhaltas simply because there's no branch where I am...however, I've known some of the adjudicators and other musicians, and it seems to me that they're the same people as the ones kicking up their heels you're talking about, Pete, after the comp's end...p'raps they're trying to distress themselves?
Ummmm...and it also occurs to me that we have at least 3 CCE adjudicators on the board who post fairly regularly, and they've never struck me as any different than anyone else on here... hmmmmm.
KFG You're right about the team being based in Canada but short on Canadians. But Toronto got the proceeds, whatever they were.
One of the things I like about this music is, there aren't really any cash proceeds coming my way, only the very great pleasure of learning and playing it: such a satisfyingly un-capitalist endeavor.
I’d like to say that at least on the grassroots, local level, which is the only contact I have with Comhaltas, the people are extremely generous with their time and knowledge. A better bunch of folks I’ve never met. And it barely stung when they inserted the chip at the base of my skull. Kidding! Kidding.
I do notice a lot of space in Treoir devoted to pix of senior Comhaltas officers posing with Mary McAleese, though.
As my irish connections are 100 years ago - that's only three generations in my family, we breed exceeding slow - I come to CCE as a complete outsider, and my comments relate to an event I was present at 31 years ago ( doesn't time fly ? ), I wouldn't want anyone to think I was trying to put down the current membership and leadership.
Yet the original question did seem to want to reclaim the music, and the authority for it, for the Irish Irish, and try to hold back the children of the Diaspora. Within the music, for a small minority of people, sad to say, there does seem to be a resentment from the descendants of those that stayed, towards the descendants of those who left, in despair, to try and make a better life somewhere else.
And, I fear, that's what prompted the original question.
My Irish connections don't exist at all, unless you count my daughter who lives in northern England and is thinking of a holiday in Ireland. Oh, and I did play a slide once for an Irish woman who danced around to it. This didn't worry me when I learned my first Irish tune, and I don't think I'll start worrying about it now, but KFG has me wondering if I need to pay up for singing Happy Birthday all these many years? But wait. That's not an Irish tune is it?
If non-Irish people shouldn't play Irish tunes, should Irish people play non-Irish tunes? What a very orderly world we would have....
Hard to say what the original post was about, really. I'd say that it may have been less about the Diasporian membership and more about people like me, with absolutely no Irish blood whatsoever. If it IS a windup, at least it's one where we can make a point with our reactions.
Wind up or no, I do know that there are those who harbour that kind of illogical attitude though. They never seem to realize that the flip side of their ill-thought out stance is "since everyone is better at Irish music than the Irish, we should limit the contest to the Irish".
The Red Socks are still cursed, Al, and the maple Leafs did win the World Series, but nowadays most of the players are from Dominican Republic, Cuba, perennial Olympic Champions, Venezuala and places like that.
Hockey is different than baseball. They don't use a ball in hockey, and they fight more than in baseball--and they don't play on grass, they play on ice.
But then again, when girls play hockey in America, they play it in a field of grass, with a ball.
Oh, never mind. What were we talking about???????
and answer the question about the World Series being related to the newspaper The World. . . they'll tell you the following:
You can't blame people for trying to come up with a reason for why a competition between North American baseball teams is called the "World Series" — but this isn't it. There was never any connection between baseball and the World newspaper. It remains somewhat of a mystery why the series of games between the American League and National League champions are called the "World's Championship Series" (later shortened to "World Series"). However, one theory is that it was anticipated baseball's popularity would spread to other countries, such as Australia and Great Britain, and eventually the World Series would become an international competition.
Well I'm trying to figure out how to work fiddling into being a ball sport; not coming up with anything, so I'm sticking to it: I don't do ball sports.
What is this obsession with feeling the need to have a certain heritage to approach and study a genre.
I have a pipes student who keeps commenting on the fact that he doesn't have any irish blood and he considers himself 'a fake' for playing Irish music.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Rubbish,
You don't have to be from Italy to sing opera!! Nor from New Orleans to play blues, nor from Portugal to Fado, nor from Bulgaria to play fine Horo's,
It goes on.
But to refer to the original question, why bother have seperate competitions. No need. It's not it's like the Olympics where there is properly defined rules, standards etc. The winner of a Fleadh competion is the judges favourite that day. That doesn't mean that they were technically the best either.
I don't mind competitions. I've won a few and lost loads. It can be good incentive for kids but disheartening to when they loose.
The trick is not to put too much weight on the outcome of the competition.
Without running to a search engine, how many here can tell us who won the senior fiddle competition or the 15-18 flute competition at last years Fleadh in Letterkenny.
Probably not too many, why, we don't care that much. It's not the Oscars, nor should it be.
They don't help careers, love or life in general but if you win an All-Ireland you deserve to feel good for a day!
Thats my 2c
" I'm trying to figure out how to work fiddling into being a ball sport; not coming up with anything. . ."
Ahhh, the issue isn't ball sports/fiddling, it's formally organized competitions. Catholocism and balls sports can both stand in as anaolgies. Analogies are not identity, they are ways of looking at an issue removed from the issue, and thus those issues which confuse the issue.
But then again, when girls play hockey in America, they play it in a field of grass, with a ball.
"But then again, when girls play hockey in America, they play it in a field of grass, with a ball."
Around here these days hockey seems to be most often played in mixed company on an asphalt tennis court, with a ball.
Ah, analogies bring about the spice in life. It really tells you how a person's mind works.
As to the original question. I don't believe in segregation and seperate but equal drives me nuts too. . .no division based on birthplace or heritage or anything. If someone can play the music then they should be able to compete regardless of where they were born or who they are related to.
Full measure wins the sports award prize for spotting the deliberate mistake, as a Belfast based Montreal Canadians fan I know all about the maple Leafs. And I thought I would catch you on the old "I'm to clever to be interested in sport". Myself, used to be the best in the World at sports quizzes.
Speaking of the World series, all the early super stars at baseball were born in Ireland, at one stage they thought you had to have Irish "genes" to be really good. So maybe the Irish called it the World Series, finally realised how stupid that was, so when it came around to fleadhs they just called it the All Ireland.
I joined my local CCE branch since they run the session here and I wanted to encourage them, and they are a good bunch.
Still, when I got up today and found that my cat had gotten sick on my unread new copy of Treior (sp? some Irish I am) I tossed it without feeling like I'd missed much.
Good grief - who cares. The All Ireland is a great event, the competitions are part of it. Indeed there would be NO fleadh if there were no sessions. Therefore it, the competitions and comhaltas are good QED.
Kids love to compete and win medals - if thats what it takes to get them into the diddley dee then I'm all for it.
Finally - I dont define Ireland as a particular sod of earth. For me the notion of Irishness is universal - fáilte to everyone who wants to be a part of it
AND - the All Ireland IS the World as far as diddley is concerned. The attempts by Master McPeake to have a World Championship have been laughable by comparison.
Tens of thousands take part in the comhaltas competitions - a handful for the self aggrandised 'World Champion' title.
Ireland qualified for the World Cup at Cricket. And beat the West Indies in 1969, bowling them out for 25. Mind you, the Windies only beat England 3-1 that year so were not very good.
i agree with Al - "It ain''t where you're from, it is how you play that matters!" I'm 2nd gen, dancer and musician, and have been told "it's just in ya." Or it's not....
don't think music is about competing. but if playing in competitions is your bag, surely you'd want to test yourself against the best, regardless of where they're from.
Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
This might sound a bit un-PC but I will take a chance in asking the following. Does anybody else share my opinion that Comhaltas should keep Irish and International Fleadhs seperate i.e. All Ireland, All British, All America, All Japan and so forth? Also, if the All Ireland were to remain open to all countries with Comhaltas branches, should a proper lineage be required? Is it right that people should be awarded for something they have no direct link to, merely just an active interest??
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by MorrisT
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
What? Why? Why would that be necessary?
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
i can see your point, morris,,,somewhere, something has been lost...afterall....where's the source??
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by noneedforthebongo
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Hi MorrisT, welcome to TheSession. What exactly do you mean by "no direct link to"? It's not quite clear. And what's your own connection? Perhaps if you put some information into your profile we could come up with some better answers? e.g. where are you located? what do you play? how long have you been involved in Comhaltas? That kind of thing.
Or are you just a troll by any chance? Please accept my most sincere apologies if you're not
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Just a person
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Ditto noneedforthebongo
Very sorry if you're not 
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Just a person
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Should non-Greeks be allowed to take part in the Olympics?Couldn't care less personally. CCE has done a wonderful job of keeping tradition alive and well, and an equally wonderful job of distorting it through turning what should be cooperative (music and dance) into something competitive. It's all interesting but only semi-relevant to what really happens when we get together to enjoy ourselves.
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by E
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Are you two in Trolling 11-14? Got any medals?
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Just a person
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
I don't get this at all...is what Morris T and noneedforthebongo saying that it's unfair that non-Irish are winning the All Ireland Fleadh and therefore that non-Irish shouldn't be allowed in the All Ireland? *Really*?
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Can blue men play the whites?
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Just a person
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
sorry..just got caught up in the madness! Comhltas have done great work for music but i dont really have any time for competitions...the notion of qualifying music contradicts my interest. makes no odds to my music what rules are applied! nor any of the politics involved....
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by noneedforthebongo
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Who knew?
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Just a person
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
I'm with you there noneedforthe bongo. Makes no odds whose better than who or where there from. Incidently, what have you got against bongos?
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by JM
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
no no, i like bongos, but a lot of the time, there's just no need for them!
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by noneedforthebongo
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Ah I see, well said! This Morris man does seem to feel very strongly on the subject. But would his location, instrument of choice,how long he is connected with Comhaltas really make it easier to answer his questions, as suggested by John Gillard? i'm guessing by "no real links" Morris means no Irish blood or something?!
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by JM
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
maybe they should start calling it the All-World fleadh, then at least the title would hold a bit more prestige, and no matter where the winner comes from everyone is happy. if not irish, they arent stealing the coveted "all-Ireland" title from the angry natives, and if they are Irish then at least Ireland win a World title in something for a change!
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by an_insoluble_pancake
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Yeah and really don't like the use of World Championship of Baseball either, but people use it.
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by I_Fel
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Oh come off it - Ive seen some bleeding brilliant non irish people playing amazing irish music and likewise absolutley crap Irish people playing Irish music. You'd say they'd still deserve to win because they just happen to be born in Ireland?
Kind of veiled racism in a way I'd guess. Nice post.
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by bb
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
*veiled*?!
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Oh and I dont really care for Comps either - but sure if thats what someone wants to do with their time then good on them - as long as it makes them happy.
Anyway - define "link" MorrisT - my father played traditional music as did his father and his father. I wasnt born in Ireland but grew up with the tunes and session in my house all of the time. Does that mean that I have no 'real link'??
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by bb
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Hehe - yeah - I know Zeens, But I was kind of trying to make my post a little less contraversial...without success obviously!
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by bb
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
MorrisT has left the building ... but will return under a different name. Be very scared.
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Just a person
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
I think there was quite enough controversy inherent to the post itself, as you pointed out with scathing irony.
Oh -- and if one knows anything about the current political landscape of Comhaltas, then the answer to JMs question is "yes".
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Maybe poor ol morris T got robbed of a much deserved All-Ireland title by one of those horrible mean foreigeners and has turned now to pure racism and internet blaggarding?? just a guess.....
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by an_insoluble_pancake
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Yeah, you got to watch out for these racists, never know where they might turn up next.
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Just a person
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
in the senior whistling competition no doubt
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by an_insoluble_pancake
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Whistling Dixie?
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Just a person
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Don't I know you from somewhere, Insoluble Pancake?
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by sergeant fox
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Didn't know you were a Seven, Sarge.
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
We play at the Irish pub in America.... All the staff and barstaff are from Ireland. They wont hire Americans cause it doest fit thier theme. Not one of them can play a musical anything but there irsh voices are oh so lovely...The entire session is irish americans three and 2 generations removed..... Most the time the irish kids behind the bar are rolling their eyes......Is it just me or do we non-connected 2gen removed respect and love it more. its ripe for the takin..
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by dan
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
With a strong six wing, methinks Zina. But ask me next week and I'll swear I'm a four. Dagnabbit.
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by sergeant fox
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
LOL -- I can't remember what I am anymore. Possibly, it doesn't really matter...
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Dan - for a long time you couldn't get arrested playing Irish music in Ireland either. There's probably still the same small percentage that love it ... just a bigger percentage now who pay lip service cos it brings in the euros. It's still seen by many as "just" Culchie music. Speaking as a 2gen of course
But one who's a bit closer, and has lived there.
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by Just a person
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
In Gaelic Games New York and London play in the All Ireland championship. Wouldn't surprise me if this year's Ulster hurling final was between those two.
In all sports the Irish diaspora are called upon, the soccer team are from everywhere, they wanted Patrick McEnroe to play in the Davis Cup for Ireland, and considering that the Irish had to emigrate everywhere, the diaspora should be called on.
Makes you wonder why so many Irish people dislike immigrants.
# Posted on January 25th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Wow
I haven't checked the board in a while and I come across this!!--what was Morris thinking- ??
I love the first response and I agree--why? why? why!!!
sounds a bit like someone wasn't too happy with the results --but .....this was what ..5 months ago already--let it go--
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by fiddlefamily
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Ireland was always fond of emigrants. Immigrants are a completely different breed altogether and not to be trusted.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by Cuso
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Traditional Music isn't seen as "Cuclhie music", not in Tyrone anyway. Although not everyone openly indluges in it, everyone is familiar with it and will find it hard not to enjoy a session.I doubt any Irishman (or woman) would care much that a non-Irishman (or woman) may snatch the All-Ireland Fleadh from our potatoe-stained mitts, it's about Irish music, not Irish birth.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by TyroneMick
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
"Can blue men play the whites?"
I've seen that in an Intel TV advert.
"i like bongos, but a lot of the time, there's just no need for them!"
But what would my glockenspeil orchestra be without them?
"Yeah and really don't like the use of World Championship of Baseball either, but people use it."
Once upon a time there were two popes and all of Christendom lived under excommunication by one or the other. It's the sort of nonesense that goes on when you start writing rules about things and forming orginizations to enforce them.
KFG
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by KFG
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Aye, this is seriously decreasing the craic factor
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by TyroneMick
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
TyroneMick - no offence, I'm only a Plastic Culchie anyway.
And if anyone doesn't know if they're a culchie or not, there's a quiz here: http://www.p45.net/omatics/culchie/
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by Just a person
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Just for info, it isn't the World Championship of Baseball, but The World Series, so called because it was originally sponsored by a newspaper called, you guessed it, The World...
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by E
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
P.S. Don't follow the "You Can Beat Head Lice" link (on the Culchie Quiz) if you're of a nervous disposition.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by Just a person
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Refering to the interleague baseball champions as the world champions predates The World Series by 9 years, although it was originally an invention of the newspapers. They do stuff like that.
And at the time it made perfect sense to do so, even if times have changed.
KFG
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by KFG
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
There was some stuff about Comhaltas on this forum a while ago, and I tried to follow all the links to work out what the flying filberts was going on; It does seem that some organisations reach a point where the internal politics completely take over and you forget why the whole thing started in the first place. In some ways you might say that their job was done, they have preserved/maintained the music, and it's back with the people ( US ! ), and stronger than ever. Are they dtill needed ? ( Heresy ! I hear you cry. )
There was that lovely spoof posting a while ago when the "old piping tutor" or whatever he claimed to be said that if you hadn't walked the cows out to the field over the frosty foggy grass in your bare feet with nothing in your stomachs but a cold potato and a slug of your father's stale porter left on the rustic kitchen table from the night before, and you couldn't remember the long years of rack-rent and famine, and the damned British repression of the bold spirit of the Irish people, and the Black-and-Tans, then you weren't qualified to even pick up an instrument ( only one of the true, pure drop, instruments, mind ) and shouldn't be allowed to even think of playing ITM ( or words to that effect ).
I was also at the Fleadh in '75 or so, and it's a funny event - the staid stiff adjudicators, the little bits of gamesmanship between the competitors, and the fine musicians who stand apart from the competitions and are only there for the craic. And there's some craic ! The general behaviour at a Fleadh, you almost wonder why CCE keeps it going. It must be deeply distressing to these retired bank managers, or whatever they are, the way the people behave at, or at least around, these events.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
I don't really follow ball sports, but didn't the Canadians win the world series a couple of times? Surely a step in the right direction.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by full measure
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
In March, I will be in Florida, and will have the chance to see some early spring baseball games. But rather than see my own beloved Boston Red Sox in a spring training game, I have decided to attend a World Baseball Classic game, and watch the Dominican Republic play the Aussies, where I will be rooting for the Dominican Republic. Why? Because many of my favorite Red Sox are Dominican, and will be playing on that team. It is amazing how many fine players in America come from elsewhere. It ain''t where you're from, it is how you play that matters!
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
In a nutshell, Pete. Well put. Brylcream, Old Spice, BO. A stoney faced panel of half a dozen of said retired bank managers, accountants and surveyors adjudicating the U-pipe playing of 10 year olds is not exactly Punk.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by Rudall the time
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
". . .didn't the Canadians win the world series. . .?"
Well, no. A team based in Canada did, but there weren't any Canadians on it.
KFG
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by KFG
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Hmmm. Y'know, I've never been involved in Comhaltas simply because there's no branch where I am...however, I've known some of the adjudicators and other musicians, and it seems to me that they're the same people as the ones kicking up their heels you're talking about, Pete, after the comp's end...p'raps they're trying to distress themselves?
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Ummmm...and it also occurs to me that we have at least 3 CCE adjudicators on the board who post fairly regularly, and they've never struck me as any different than anyone else on here... hmmmmm.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
KFG You're right about the team being based in Canada but short on Canadians. But Toronto got the proceeds, whatever they were.
One of the things I like about this music is, there aren't really any cash proceeds coming my way, only the very great pleasure of learning and playing it: such a satisfyingly un-capitalist endeavor.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by full measure
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
"But Toronto got the proceeds, whatever they were."
As Ireland gets the proceeds of the All Ireland competitions.
". . .such a satisfyingly un-capitalist endeavor."
Just make sure you aren't "stealing" anyone's music, whatever royalties there might be are duly paid and all the premits are in order is all.
Be prepared to prove all of the above.
KFG
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by KFG
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
I’d like to say that at least on the grassroots, local level, which is the only contact I have with Comhaltas, the people are extremely generous with their time and knowledge. A better bunch of folks I’ve never met. And it barely stung when they inserted the chip at the base of my skull. Kidding! Kidding.
I do notice a lot of space in Treoir devoted to pix of senior Comhaltas officers posing with Mary McAleese, though.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by fidkid
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
As my irish connections are 100 years ago - that's only three generations in my family, we breed exceeding slow - I come to CCE as a complete outsider, and my comments relate to an event I was present at 31 years ago ( doesn't time fly ? ), I wouldn't want anyone to think I was trying to put down the current membership and leadership.
Yet the original question did seem to want to reclaim the music, and the authority for it, for the Irish Irish, and try to hold back the children of the Diaspora. Within the music, for a small minority of people, sad to say, there does seem to be a resentment from the descendants of those that stayed, towards the descendants of those who left, in despair, to try and make a better life somewhere else.
And, I fear, that's what prompted the original question.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
My Irish connections don't exist at all, unless you count my daughter who lives in northern England and is thinking of a holiday in Ireland. Oh, and I did play a slide once for an Irish woman who danced around to it. This didn't worry me when I learned my first Irish tune, and I don't think I'll start worrying about it now, but KFG has me wondering if I need to pay up for singing Happy Birthday all these many years? But wait. That's not an Irish tune is it?
If non-Irish people shouldn't play Irish tunes, should Irish people play non-Irish tunes? What a very orderly world we would have....
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by full measure
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
You know, I see that's not fair, and it's not really what the original post was about. Was it?
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by full measure
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Hmm.. is this another wind-up thread here?
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by On Sabbatical
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Hard to say what the original post was about, really. I'd say that it may have been less about the Diasporian membership and more about people like me, with absolutely no Irish blood whatsoever. If it IS a windup, at least it's one where we can make a point with our reactions.
Wind up or no, I do know that there are those who harbour that kind of illogical attitude though. They never seem to realize that the flip side of their ill-thought out stance is "since everyone is better at Irish music than the Irish, we should limit the contest to the Irish".
As for a World Fleadh: http://www.theworldfleadh.com/
I have heard through the grapevine that the lineup is still a bit up in the air, tho.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
The Red Socks are still cursed, Al, and the maple Leafs did win the World Series, but nowadays most of the players are from Dominican Republic, Cuba, perennial Olympic Champions, Venezuala and places like that.
Just like the music.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Maple Leafs are hockey, arent they? It was the Blue Jays who won the world series. Well, I mean the baseball one.
Wait a minute...I don't follow ball sports, how would I know?
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by full measure
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Hockey is different than baseball. They don't use a ball in hockey, and they fight more than in baseball--and they don't play on grass, they play on ice.
But then again, when girls play hockey in America, they play it in a field of grass, with a ball.
Oh, never mind. What were we talking about???????
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by AlBrown
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
By the way if you go to
http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/quiz/sports/sports.html
and answer the question about the World Series being related to the newspaper The World. . . they'll tell you the following:
You can't blame people for trying to come up with a reason for why a competition between North American baseball teams is called the "World Series" — but this isn't it. There was never any connection between baseball and the World newspaper. It remains somewhat of a mystery why the series of games between the American League and National League champions are called the "World's Championship Series" (later shortened to "World Series"). However, one theory is that it was anticipated baseball's popularity would spread to other countries, such as Australia and Great Britain, and eventually the World Series would become an international competition.
Don't you just love trivia. . .
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by musicfan
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Well I'm trying to figure out how to work fiddling into being a ball sport; not coming up with anything, so I'm sticking to it: I don't do ball sports.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by full measure
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Me neither. I'm the one asking the irritating questions. I once asked what was going on now and was told the game was over.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by Zina Lee
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
What is this obsession with feeling the need to have a certain heritage to approach and study a genre.
I have a pipes student who keeps commenting on the fact that he doesn't have any irish blood and he considers himself 'a fake' for playing Irish music.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Rubbish,
You don't have to be from Italy to sing opera!! Nor from New Orleans to play blues, nor from Portugal to Fado, nor from Bulgaria to play fine Horo's,
It goes on.
But to refer to the original question, why bother have seperate competitions. No need. It's not it's like the Olympics where there is properly defined rules, standards etc. The winner of a Fleadh competion is the judges favourite that day. That doesn't mean that they were technically the best either.
I don't mind competitions. I've won a few and lost loads. It can be good incentive for kids but disheartening to when they loose.
The trick is not to put too much weight on the outcome of the competition.
Without running to a search engine, how many here can tell us who won the senior fiddle competition or the 15-18 flute competition at last years Fleadh in Letterkenny.
Probably not too many, why, we don't care that much. It's not the Oscars, nor should it be.
They don't help careers, love or life in general but if you win an All-Ireland you deserve to feel good for a day!
Thats my 2c
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by tompipes
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
" I'm trying to figure out how to work fiddling into being a ball sport; not coming up with anything. . ."
Ahhh, the issue isn't ball sports/fiddling, it's formally organized competitions. Catholocism and balls sports can both stand in as anaolgies. Analogies are not identity, they are ways of looking at an issue removed from the issue, and thus those issues which confuse the issue.
But then again, when girls play hockey in America, they play it in a field of grass, with a ball.
"But then again, when girls play hockey in America, they play it in a field of grass, with a ball."
Around here these days hockey seems to be most often played in mixed company on an asphalt tennis court, with a ball.
KFG
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by KFG
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Ah, analogies bring about the spice in life. It really tells you how a person's mind works.
As to the original question. I don't believe in segregation and seperate but equal drives me nuts too. . .no division based on birthplace or heritage or anything. If someone can play the music then they should be able to compete regardless of where they were born or who they are related to.
# Posted on January 26th 2006 by musicfan
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Full measure wins the sports award prize for spotting the deliberate mistake, as a Belfast based Montreal Canadians fan I know all about the maple Leafs. And I thought I would catch you on the old "I'm to clever to be interested in sport". Myself, used to be the best in the World at sports quizzes.
Speaking of the World series, all the early super stars at baseball were born in Ireland, at one stage they thought you had to have Irish "genes" to be really good. So maybe the Irish called it the World Series, finally realised how stupid that was, so when it came around to fleadhs they just called it the All Ireland.
Think about it.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Heh heh, BB, well, they sure as hell weren't going to play cricket, were they?
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by Rudall the time
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
I joined my local CCE branch since they run the session here and I wanted to encourage them, and they are a good bunch.
Still, when I got up today and found that my cat had gotten sick on my unread new copy of Treior (sp? some Irish I am) I tossed it without feeling like I'd missed much.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by KenC
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Good grief - who cares. The All Ireland is a great event, the competitions are part of it. Indeed there would be NO fleadh if there were no sessions. Therefore it, the competitions and comhaltas are good QED.
Kids love to compete and win medals - if thats what it takes to get them into the diddley dee then I'm all for it.
Finally - I dont define Ireland as a particular sod of earth. For me the notion of Irishness is universal - fáilte to everyone who wants to be a part of it
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by breandan
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Jeez - I'm losing the plot
There would be NO fleadh if there were no competitions is what I meant lol
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by breandan
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
AND - the All Ireland IS the World as far as diddley is concerned. The attempts by Master McPeake to have a World Championship have been laughable by comparison.
Tens of thousands take part in the comhaltas competitions - a handful for the self aggrandised 'World Champion' title.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by breandan
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Ireland qualified for the World Cup at Cricket. And beat the West Indies in 1969, bowling them out for 25. Mind you, the Windies only beat England 3-1 that year so were not very good.
# Posted on January 27th 2006 by bodhran bliss
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
i agree with Al - "It ain''t where you're from, it is how you play that matters!" I'm 2nd gen, dancer and musician, and have been told "it's just in ya." Or it's not....
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by Ceolagusrince
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
Hey - why not just let anyone play anywhere, at anything!
Bo**ocks to Borders & Nationalism.
Then perhaps the World will become peaceful, & we can all just go back to being Druids & worship Water, Sun & Fresh Air
- or Whisky, Peat Fires & Pub Smog
# Posted on January 29th 2006 by Ptarmigan
Re: Comhaltas Rules and Regulations
don't think music is about competing. but if playing in competitions is your bag, surely you'd want to test yourself against the best, regardless of where they're from.
# Posted on February 9th 2006 by bosco