Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
Hi All,
Wanted to get the collective wisdom from yous all about what the best devices are for recording session music. I've been using a tape walkman for recording sessions which is great, but I'd like to be able to do digital transfers (at faster than realt time too) to the computer and that isn't possible with tape players. Is there a device (unlike the sony net mds which wouldn't let you download recorded minidisks) that lets you record onto minidisk, HD or solid state memory, that does highish quality recording and takes a mic input? What do any of you use?
Also, in the past I've used either the onboard mic on my tape recorder, or a sony condenser mic with a minidisk recorder. Unfortunately, these seem rather too good at picking up background pub noise. Is there a) particular mics that are better b) methods for getting the best possible recording in noisy sessions.
Also, do any of you have experience in using software for audio clean-up of pub sessions?
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I got an Olympus DM-20 digital recorder especially for recording sessions. I got it based on reviews from users.
It will record over 4 hours in stereo high quality mode which should be enough for most sessions. In HQ (high quality) mode it will record over 8 hours.
It has a USB transfer cradle which allows you to download files to your computer.
It also has MP3 playback capability. I have uploaded a bunch of tunes (ITM of course). It has an OK speaker and an earphone output.
It has a remote mic or you can use the internal mic. It has a noise limiting feature which lets you reduce the noise while you are recording or after you have downloaded the particular file.
One of the sessions I play in is a bookstore(Borders) with a cafe. When they make expresso coffee for the customers, the expresso machine comes across like a jet in the store, but other than that it does a good job of filtering the noise.
It does record sessions well. I sit it on my accordion case and just let it go. I use the internal mic and am well pleased with the results. There is a stereo mic available, but I am probably going to stick with what I've got.
More info on specific microphones and audio clean-up
Cheers for the link. Very helpful with regard to the recorder. Looks like the Microtrack device is the kind of thing I'm after, if a little expensive. However, I'm also wondering about what microphones to use and how to get better pick up of musicians sat around a table (with a mic on it) and a very noisy pub in the background.
Furthemore, what audio editing / clean-up software is good for trying to bring out the musicians against the background noise. The only thing I've manged is using Wave lab or something like that and impose a fairly gross "treble cut" which does dampen down the ovewhelming background noise but which has a fairly radical effect on the instruments too. If you know what I mean.
To be specific, I want a highly portable setup which I can use to put down high quality session recordings for posterity and to create and audio lib.
I posted a longer comment but then lost it so here is the abbreviated version. I bought the RH910 recently for sessions and my classes and it is great. Each disc is 1 GB so there is plenty of storage. The mic I use costs under £10 but is only mono. There are plenty of more expensive options out there though. Tip - buy discs at the same time however as they do not come with the recorder. Good luck
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
Of course. Our local session is just beginning to creep into the 20th century with the inklings of a website in progress thanks to one particularly motivated individual, but we need some more and perhaps less rustly sound clips and I was hoping to start building a small online library of tunes.
Also, I've been using tape recordings to teach, but my tape recorders just died and it appears that everyone can access mp3s online, so rather than record things for each pupil each time I was hoping to try and get a load of stuff accessible on the web for them.
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I like Audacity. Free Download too. In my experience, even with a proper porta studio board, at a noisy session you won't get rid of a lot of the noise, but you can pan away from where the noise is coming from when you are doing the EQ.
Still, my recordings of our session are really noisy. Sometimes it adds to the charm and the ebergy of the whole thing, other times people are talking through a beautiful harp solo and we have to scrap it.
I am thinking of getting the microtrack for more spontaneous recordings. It's expensive, but who needs food! My birthday is coming up so maybe I will splurge, but really want to know if it records truly as decently or nearly as well as the portastudios with the built in mike. I would have to have wasted $400. Can't really afford it right now.
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
PS....typo queen......I would not want to have wasted $400....I know it made no sense!! Anyway, does anyone use one....and if you record with the built in mikes how does it separate the tracks etc.?
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I use an iRiver MP3 player/recorder (3 inches by 1 by 1). The IFP-795 has 512MB memory, and records about 8 hours in high quality mode. Cost about $140 last year, probably less now. Easy computer interface with USB. The internal mic is OK for recording one or two musicians, but lots of distortion otherwise. A direct plug-in mic from Microphone Madness (they have great customer service, unlike iRiver), was around $30. It's one inch in size,stereo, omnidirectional, great sound quality but as others describe, picks up all the background pub noise. I plan to try a unidirectional mic to see if that helps. Can also download music to the iRiver, but I've been too busy recording to try this yet. I'm really pleased with this set-up.
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I have used the microtrack at a couple of sessions and would be happy to send a couple of sample MP3's to any one who asks. (drop me a note at liam@billiamconkey.com)
I was not very happy with the T mic that came with the unit, mostly because whenever you adjust the record level the clicking of the switch intrudes on the recording, so...
I sprang for a pair of better mic's from CoreSound. I bought their least expensive model and after one outing I am very happy with them. They appear to have been designed for use by concert bootleggers. They are very small, but their specifications are good. They are very well built. CoreSound well deliver these on a paid-for trial basis, and they will send you audio samples made with their products.
I made these recordings sitting outside the players circle. The room is roughly 25 x 25 with a 14-ish foot flat ceiling. The mic's themselves (that is the microphones, not the players - sorry couldn't resist) are intended to be mounted in or near your ears - this placement gives an eerily realistic recording when played back through headphones. I just clipped them my shirt collar.
The session is generally between 10 and 20 players, with 5 - 10 folks on the fringes. Everyone is there for the session, this is not a side attraction in a pub setting.
The samples are exactly as recorded - with no post processing at all.
I do not have any relationship with CoreSound other than as a one-time customer.
They also sell the microtrack here http://www.core-sound.com/microtrack_2496/1.php for well under $400
I would note that they have a refreshingly frank review of the product. I am very happy with it (quirks and all). I especially like that it uses standard removable CompactFlash memory cards.
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I understand that the newer Sony HD minidisc recorders can download from live recordings, although I haven't done it myself. I have an older Sony Net MD recorder that does a great job of recording, and I was able to purchase a cheap program online to allow me to download recorded material, but only in real time.
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I've been on the same quest recently and found a great resource, the "Audio Field Recording Guide" from the Vermont Folklife Center. Also a conversation with and sales rep in the Apple store was very interesting -- the new video IPOD will supports CD quality recording once the add ons that will be announced this week at MACWorld are release.,
I too was looking at the Microtrack 24/96 and the Marantz PMD 660 and so far the reviews are very mixed - concerning drawbacks/value/features -- at $299 the new video IPOD looks like the best bet if the addons work as promised.
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I'm almost on a par with Jamie, I use a Sony DAT Walkman with an AudioTechnica 822 stereo condensor mic, and I like the results really well, but it takes a long time (real time) to get the recording into my ProTools rig to edit it. I'm used to that, and I've developed ways to deal with it. I don't record a lot of sessions, and I don't do it casually, just when it's some special occaision and I'm going to make CDs of it.
From other friends' experiences, I think that the next best thing would be the Edirol R1. I like that it will do lots of formats, with and without compression, and especially that it will record standard .WAV files in 24bit resolution. I have also heard nice things from friends about the internal mics on the Edirol, tho I haven't heard them. It will be nice to have the option to use the internals or external mic(s).
For me this means that I can do serious 'keeper' recordings that I'll edit and process for CDs, and also that I can use the lower resolutions to do 'casual' recordings more often, tho listening to the terrible things that mp3 encodings do to audio gives me heebiejeebies.
Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
Hi All,
Wanted to get the collective wisdom from yous all about what the best devices are for recording session music. I've been using a tape walkman for recording sessions which is great, but I'd like to be able to do digital transfers (at faster than realt time too) to the computer and that isn't possible with tape players. Is there a device (unlike the sony net mds which wouldn't let you download recorded minidisks) that lets you record onto minidisk, HD or solid state memory, that does highish quality recording and takes a mic input? What do any of you use?
Also, in the past I've used either the onboard mic on my tape recorder, or a sony condenser mic with a minidisk recorder. Unfortunately, these seem rather too good at picking up background pub noise. Is there a) particular mics that are better b) methods for getting the best possible recording in noisy sessions.
Also, do any of you have experience in using software for audio clean-up of pub sessions?
Cheers for your help
j
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Jamie
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I got an Olympus DM-20 digital recorder especially for recording sessions. I got it based on reviews from users.
It will record over 4 hours in stereo high quality mode which should be enough for most sessions. In HQ (high quality) mode it will record over 8 hours.
It has a USB transfer cradle which allows you to download files to your computer.
It also has MP3 playback capability. I have uploaded a bunch of tunes (ITM of course). It has an OK speaker and an earphone output.
It has a remote mic or you can use the internal mic. It has a noise limiting feature which lets you reduce the noise while you are recording or after you have downloaded the particular file.
One of the sessions I play in is a bookstore(Borders) with a cafe. When they make expresso coffee for the customers, the expresso machine comes across like a jet in the store, but other than that it does a good job of filtering the noise.
It does record sessions well. I sit it on my accordion case and just let it go. I use the internal mic and am well pleased with the results. There is a stereo mic available, but I am probably going to stick with what I've got.
In short, I like it.
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by rogfox
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
Try here:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/8616/comments#comment184174
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Feargal French
More info on specific microphones and audio clean-up
Cheers for the link. Very helpful with regard to the recorder. Looks like the Microtrack device is the kind of thing I'm after, if a little expensive. However, I'm also wondering about what microphones to use and how to get better pick up of musicians sat around a table (with a mic on it) and a very noisy pub in the background.
Furthemore, what audio editing / clean-up software is good for trying to bring out the musicians against the background noise. The only thing I've manged is using Wave lab or something like that and impose a fairly gross "treble cut" which does dampen down the ovewhelming background noise but which has a fairly radical effect on the instruments too. If you know what I mean.
To be specific, I want a highly portable setup which I can use to put down high quality session recordings for posterity and to create and audio lib.
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by Jamie
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/203-7889751-4135124
I posted a longer comment but then lost it so here is the abbreviated version. I bought the RH910 recently for sessions and my classes and it is great. Each disc is 1 GB so there is plenty of storage. The mic I use costs under £10 but is only mono. There are plenty of more expensive options out there though. Tip - buy discs at the same time however as they do not come with the recorder. Good luck
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
It has a USB and optical cable too and comes with software to transfer recordings to and from your computer.
# Posted on January 7th 2006 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
Make sure you share any good sessions recorded by all this fancy gear with us lesser mortals. As we would with youse.
Slainte!
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
Of course. Our local session is just beginning to creep into the 20th century with the inklings of a website in progress thanks to one particularly motivated individual, but we need some more and perhaps less rustly sound clips and I was hoping to start building a small online library of tunes.
Also, I've been using tape recordings to teach, but my tape recorders just died and it appears that everyone can access mp3s online, so rather than record things for each pupil each time I was hoping to try and get a load of stuff accessible on the web for them.
Who knows?!
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Jamie
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I like Audacity. Free Download too. In my experience, even with a proper porta studio board, at a noisy session you won't get rid of a lot of the noise, but you can pan away from where the noise is coming from when you are doing the EQ.
Still, my recordings of our session are really noisy. Sometimes it adds to the charm and the ebergy of the whole thing, other times people are talking through a beautiful harp solo and we have to scrap it.
I am thinking of getting the microtrack for more spontaneous recordings. It's expensive, but who needs food! My birthday is coming up so maybe I will splurge, but really want to know if it records truly as decently or nearly as well as the portastudios with the built in mike. I would have to have wasted $400. Can't really afford it right now.
Iris
http://cdbaby.com/cd/irisnevins
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by irisnevins
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
PS....typo queen......I would not want to have wasted $400....I know it made no sense!! Anyway, does anyone use one....and if you record with the built in mikes how does it separate the tracks etc.?
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by irisnevins
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I use an iRiver MP3 player/recorder (3 inches by 1 by 1). The IFP-795 has 512MB memory, and records about 8 hours in high quality mode. Cost about $140 last year, probably less now. Easy computer interface with USB. The internal mic is OK for recording one or two musicians, but lots of distortion otherwise. A direct plug-in mic from Microphone Madness (they have great customer service, unlike iRiver), was around $30. It's one inch in size,stereo, omnidirectional, great sound quality but as others describe, picks up all the background pub noise. I plan to try a unidirectional mic to see if that helps. Can also download music to the iRiver, but I've been too busy recording to try this yet. I'm really pleased with this set-up.
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by lindag
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
Quite a few iRivers (like mine!) don't interface with macs very easily. But I know a hack which I will tell you for money. Or crumpets.
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by Q
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I have used the microtrack at a couple of sessions and would be happy to send a couple of sample MP3's to any one who asks. (drop me a note at liam@billiamconkey.com)
I was not very happy with the T mic that came with the unit, mostly because whenever you adjust the record level the clicking of the switch intrudes on the recording, so...
I sprang for a pair of better mic's from CoreSound. I bought their least expensive model and after one outing I am very happy with them. They appear to have been designed for use by concert bootleggers. They are very small, but their specifications are good. They are very well built. CoreSound well deliver these on a paid-for trial basis, and they will send you audio samples made with their products.
I made these recordings sitting outside the players circle. The room is roughly 25 x 25 with a 14-ish foot flat ceiling. The mic's themselves (that is the microphones, not the players - sorry couldn't resist) are intended to be mounted in or near your ears - this placement gives an eerily realistic recording when played back through headphones. I just clipped them my shirt collar.
The session is generally between 10 and 20 players, with 5 - 10 folks on the fringes. Everyone is there for the session, this is not a side attraction in a pub setting.
The samples are exactly as recorded - with no post processing at all.
I do not have any relationship with CoreSound other than as a one-time customer.
Their home page is here http://www.core-sound.com/default.php
The mic I bought is here http://www.core-sound.com/lcmics/12.php
They also sell the microtrack here http://www.core-sound.com/microtrack_2496/1.php for well under $400
I would note that they have a refreshingly frank review of the product. I am very happy with it (quirks and all). I especially like that it uses standard removable CompactFlash memory cards.
It would be simple to set up the mics in the middle of circle. I would first try nose to nose at right-angles and close to the table surface - sorta like the Rode NT4 stereo mic
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/RD-NT4.jpg
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by billiamconkey
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I understand that the newer Sony HD minidisc recorders can download from live recordings, although I haven't done it myself. I have an older Sony Net MD recorder that does a great job of recording, and I was able to purchase a cheap program online to allow me to download recorded material, but only in real time.
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by danceall
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I've been on the same quest recently and found a great resource, the "Audio Field Recording Guide" from the Vermont Folklife Center. Also a conversation with and sales rep in the Apple store was very interesting -- the new video IPOD will supports CD quality recording once the add ons that will be announced this week at MACWorld are release.,
I too was looking at the Microtrack 24/96 and the Marantz PMD 660 and so far the reviews are very mixed - concerning drawbacks/value/features -- at $299 the new video IPOD looks like the best bet if the addons work as promised.
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by ratbiscuit
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
oops - forgot the link - http://www.vermontfolklifecenter.org/res_audioequip.htm
# Posted on January 8th 2006 by ratbiscuit
Re: Recording Devices and Getting Good Session Recordings
I'm almost on a par with Jamie, I use a Sony DAT Walkman with an AudioTechnica 822 stereo condensor mic, and I like the results really well, but it takes a long time (real time) to get the recording into my ProTools rig to edit it. I'm used to that, and I've developed ways to deal with it. I don't record a lot of sessions, and I don't do it casually, just when it's some special occaision and I'm going to make CDs of it.
From other friends' experiences, I think that the next best thing would be the Edirol R1. I like that it will do lots of formats, with and without compression, and especially that it will record standard .WAV files in 24bit resolution. I have also heard nice things from friends about the internal mics on the Edirol, tho I haven't heard them. It will be nice to have the option to use the internals or external mic(s).
For me this means that I can do serious 'keeper' recordings that I'll edit and process for CDs, and also that I can use the lower resolutions to do 'casual' recordings more often, tho listening to the terrible things that mp3 encodings do to audio gives me heebiejeebies.
stv
http://www.ossianusa.com
has the Culchies CD, "Bruscar Bán"!
# Posted on January 10th 2006 by stv culchie