If you want to give it a try just find a used Fender Squire or some such, about $50 full retail, pull the frets and putty up the slots. That stuff made of glass microbeads in foam works well. The stripes left by the putty will act as position markers while you get used to not having frets.
Takes a bit of discipline to learn to play, but it can be done, as several fiddler players know.
Interesting plunky sound if you play it "normally," or you can learn the Indian technique for playing fretless strings and use your nails as frets.
Throw a pickup on it if you want to get really interesting.
I'd thought of that. In fact, my post as orginally typed went:
"Step one:
Get longer nails. As a fiddle player you might not like that part."
But then I went and picked up my fiddle and tried it with my currently classically short nails and found it doable. Harder, but doable.
Of course on fiddle you don't need to use your nails in the first place, as it's already quite easy to play fingerboardless using fairly normal technique.
I saw the great New Jersey guitarist (mostly not Celtic but plays some pieces brilliantly) John Sheehan last night. He also played a renaissance lute, and it has moveable gut frets. Only you're not supposed to move them, so I don't get why they have gutstrings in the firstplace.
I'd imagine once your fingers got used to where they should go, like on a fiddle it could work.
if any guitar players want to be floored, check John out. Genius. I think he's at www.johnsheehan.net. Like I said mostly not Celtic, but he sure can play O'Carolans etc.
OK....sorta off topic, this just made me think of the gut frets. Or is this technically fretless? A guitar with moveable frets could be quite interesting! Make notes in between.....surely you cpuld do that fretless too.
"Only you're not supposed to move them, so I don't get why they have gutstrings in the firstplace."
There was a time, long ago, when there was no standarized system of western music. Movable frets allowed the easy "refretting" of an instrument to play under any system.
But main reason was that they didn't make fret wire. They made gut strings.
Here's an interesting experiment. You can fret your violin, viol style, with monofiliment line. I don't recommend doing this for regular playing, but the experiment is worth the effort.
I don't happen to have a fretless banjo at the moment, I have this tendency to give them away after awhile, but I've been known to throw 5 or 7 temp frets on one this way.
". . .is this technically fretless?"
No. A fret is as a fret does.
"A guitar with moveable frets could be quite interesting!"
Maybe some day I'll be able to show you some of my movable fret/bridge banjos/dulcimers/multichords (the progenator of the hammered dulcimer). Or just make some yourself. It isn't hard, or expensive. I once made a dulcimer out of scraps of 1/4" fir plywood and 2x4 salvaged from some construction, just to show an instrument worth playing could be made out of nearly anything if you constructed it halfway decently. Fretted it with bits of paper clip. Total out of pocket cost? A few cents worth of Elmer's Glue. Jean Ritchie loved the s*** out of that thing, which really annoyed all the "fine luthiers" who brought her their latest masterpiece to try out for her approval.
"Make notes in between.....surely you cpuld do that fretless too."
Why do you think the violin (some fiddles, like the viol, do) doesn't have frets in the first place? That's the whole point of the thing, and why adding frets is an experiment worth doing, to drive home the limitations of frets. Even assuming thourougly modern western music theory a fretted instrument cannot even be played in perfect tune with itself. Older forms of western music that still survive, like, oooooooooooh, I don't know, Irish music, does not even conform to modern music theory, some of it even predating Pythogorean theory. Attempts to "classicalize" it are misguided by people who do not truely understand the music, no matter how many PhDs they hold.
And, of course, by replacing the frets with the skill of the musician one can instantly play in any musical structure. The violin is displacing many native forms of Indian instruments. You can just pick it up and play Indian music on it.
Or just listen to early recordings of blues slide guitarists. About the only thing you'll recognize are octaves and fourths.
I don't know of any recordings of fretless guitar, but if you want to hear fretless banjo just wander down to your local library. They're likely to have the first recording of Doc Watson, Michael Cooney or Frank Proffitt (he of Tom Dooley fame). They've all got at least some nylon strung fretless banjo on them.
I don't think there was a time when a guitar was not a fretted instrument. If you were so inclined as to get one you would probably have to invent a style to play it. Fretless banjos have been around a long time as they started that way so the methods of playing (usually not past the fifth fret) are well known. The violin family of instruments (including the fretless Fender Jazz Bass) are not fretted instruments and they too have a long legacy.
If you have the time to be a pioneer, good luck <G>
There have been a number of fretless guitar experiments over time. The most recent I've seen was a bit on some cable TV (in the U.S.) talent show, in which a fellow played an electric fretless guitar with a rhythm section of electric piano, bass and drums. He didn't stray far from standard guitar method, but used the lack of frets for expressive vibrato/tremolo effects.
There have been several acticles in Acoustic Guitar Magazine about fretless guitars, tho not... monthly... No, they're not common.
I saw fretless banjos mentioned. They are quite common, more all the time, among the oldtime musicians. The sound of sliding on and off pitches in oldtime banjo frailing is wonderful.
I had a fretless bass guitar. I did better with a real double bass. I was playing in a band with guitar, dobro/mandolin player and a guitarist. -Two- of us without frets were too many. <GGG> I couldn't stay on pitch well enough. The fretless bass sound is lovely, but I couldn't do it.
Mostly, I'm really happy to have frets. Let the fiddlers slide about. <GGG>
fretless acoustic guitar
fretless acoustic guitar
has anyone heard one?
# Posted on December 11th 2005 by bobgordon
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
Can't say I've ever heard OF one!
# Posted on December 11th 2005 by Gords
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
Sure, guitar, banjo, mandolin. . .
If you want to give it a try just find a used Fender Squire or some such, about $50 full retail, pull the frets and putty up the slots. That stuff made of glass microbeads in foam works well. The stripes left by the putty will act as position markers while you get used to not having frets.
Takes a bit of discipline to learn to play, but it can be done, as several fiddler players know.
Interesting plunky sound if you play it "normally," or you can learn the Indian technique for playing fretless strings and use your nails as frets.
Throw a pickup on it if you want to get really interesting.
KFG
# Posted on December 11th 2005 by KFG
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
Sounds like re- inventing the oud. I once saw a fretless acoustic guitar in a shop in Arnprior but I left it there un- tried.
# Posted on December 11th 2005 by McMandolin
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
"use your nails as frets"---I'm trying to picture that. How do you do that?
# Posted on December 11th 2005 by dmarie
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
Well, you touch the string with your nail instead of the pad of your finger. Don't try to picture it, pick up your fiddle and try to do it.
One trial is worth a thousand words.
KFG
# Posted on December 11th 2005 by KFG
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
Alas, being a classical player my fingernails aren't long enough.
# Posted on December 12th 2005 by dmarie
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
I'd thought of that. In fact, my post as orginally typed went:
"Step one:
Get longer nails. As a fiddle player you might not like that part."
But then I went and picked up my fiddle and tried it with my currently classically short nails and found it doable. Harder, but doable.
Of course on fiddle you don't need to use your nails in the first place, as it's already quite easy to play fingerboardless using fairly normal technique.
KFG
# Posted on December 12th 2005 by KFG
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
Okay, I tried it. Really arched my fingers and got the nail to touch. Kind of a cold sound, isn't it? (hurts, too.)
# Posted on December 12th 2005 by dmarie
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
Played a fretless acoustic bass.
Great.
Wish I had the excuse to buy it, like some gigs I needed it for.
# Posted on December 12th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
I saw the great New Jersey guitarist (mostly not Celtic but plays some pieces brilliantly) John Sheehan last night. He also played a renaissance lute, and it has moveable gut frets. Only you're not supposed to move them, so I don't get why they have gutstrings in the firstplace.
I'd imagine once your fingers got used to where they should go, like on a fiddle it could work.
if any guitar players want to be floored, check John out. Genius. I think he's at www.johnsheehan.net. Like I said mostly not Celtic, but he sure can play O'Carolans etc.
OK....sorta off topic, this just made me think of the gut frets. Or is this technically fretless? A guitar with moveable frets could be quite interesting! Make notes in between.....surely you cpuld do that fretless too.
# Posted on December 12th 2005 by irisnevins
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
"Only you're not supposed to move them, so I don't get why they have gutstrings in the firstplace."
There was a time, long ago, when there was no standarized system of western music. Movable frets allowed the easy "refretting" of an instrument to play under any system.
But main reason was that they didn't make fret wire. They made gut strings.
Here's an interesting experiment. You can fret your violin, viol style, with monofiliment line. I don't recommend doing this for regular playing, but the experiment is worth the effort.
I don't happen to have a fretless banjo at the moment, I have this tendency to give them away after awhile, but I've been known to throw 5 or 7 temp frets on one this way.
". . .is this technically fretless?"
No. A fret is as a fret does.
"A guitar with moveable frets could be quite interesting!"
Maybe some day I'll be able to show you some of my movable fret/bridge banjos/dulcimers/multichords (the progenator of the hammered dulcimer). Or just make some yourself. It isn't hard, or expensive. I once made a dulcimer out of scraps of 1/4" fir plywood and 2x4 salvaged from some construction, just to show an instrument worth playing could be made out of nearly anything if you constructed it halfway decently. Fretted it with bits of paper clip. Total out of pocket cost? A few cents worth of Elmer's Glue. Jean Ritchie loved the s*** out of that thing, which really annoyed all the "fine luthiers" who brought her their latest masterpiece to try out for her approval.
"Make notes in between.....surely you cpuld do that fretless too."
Why do you think the violin (some fiddles, like the viol, do) doesn't have frets in the first place? That's the whole point of the thing, and why adding frets is an experiment worth doing, to drive home the limitations of frets. Even assuming thourougly modern western music theory a fretted instrument cannot even be played in perfect tune with itself. Older forms of western music that still survive, like, oooooooooooh, I don't know, Irish music, does not even conform to modern music theory, some of it even predating Pythogorean theory. Attempts to "classicalize" it are misguided by people who do not truely understand the music, no matter how many PhDs they hold.
And, of course, by replacing the frets with the skill of the musician one can instantly play in any musical structure. The violin is displacing many native forms of Indian instruments. You can just pick it up and play Indian music on it.
Or just listen to early recordings of blues slide guitarists. About the only thing you'll recognize are octaves and fourths.
I don't know of any recordings of fretless guitar, but if you want to hear fretless banjo just wander down to your local library. They're likely to have the first recording of Doc Watson, Michael Cooney or Frank Proffitt (he of Tom Dooley fame). They've all got at least some nylon strung fretless banjo on them.
KFG
# Posted on December 12th 2005 by KFG
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
Tony Ellis (& the "Musicians of Braeburn" - a sort of Appalchian Chieftains) is a great modern player of the gut- or nylon- strung fretless banjo
# Posted on December 12th 2005 by Bren
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
thanks for the info KFG!
# Posted on December 12th 2005 by irisnevins
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
My wife often tells me not to fret about things beyond my control--is this where the term comes from?
# Posted on December 12th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
I don't think there was a time when a guitar was not a fretted instrument. If you were so inclined as to get one you would probably have to invent a style to play it. Fretless banjos have been around a long time as they started that way so the methods of playing (usually not past the fifth fret) are well known. The violin family of instruments (including the fretless Fender Jazz Bass) are not fretted instruments and they too have a long legacy.
If you have the time to be a pioneer, good luck <G>
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com/dec05/triplets.html
# Posted on December 12th 2005 by mikeyes
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
But,
http://www.unfretted.com/loader.php?LINK=main
http://www.ehhs.cmich.edu/~dhavlena/fretles.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretless_guitar
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosession.com/dec05/triplets.com
# Posted on December 12th 2005 by mikeyes
Re: fretless acoustic guitar
There have been a number of fretless guitar experiments over time. The most recent I've seen was a bit on some cable TV (in the U.S.) talent show, in which a fellow played an electric fretless guitar with a rhythm section of electric piano, bass and drums. He didn't stray far from standard guitar method, but used the lack of frets for expressive vibrato/tremolo effects.
There have been several acticles in Acoustic Guitar Magazine about fretless guitars, tho not... monthly... No, they're not common.
I saw fretless banjos mentioned. They are quite common, more all the time, among the oldtime musicians. The sound of sliding on and off pitches in oldtime banjo frailing is wonderful.
I had a fretless bass guitar. I did better with a real double bass. I was playing in a band with guitar, dobro/mandolin player and a guitarist. -Two- of us without frets were too many. <GGG> I couldn't stay on pitch well enough. The fretless bass sound is lovely, but I couldn't do it.
Mostly, I'm really happy to have frets. Let the fiddlers slide about. <GGG>
stv
http;//cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on December 13th 2005 by stv culchie