I really love when folk sparingly and judiciously harmonise tunes. It really gives some drive and interest to the ears, especially when guitar or other backing is not present.
Many seem to think that this is outside the tradition and not particularly welcome.
Listening to too many Lunasa records and mushing a tune into a Spinal Tap-esque freeform jazz instrumental is not what we are after here, a few well chosen simple long notes can make all the differnce in brightness and lift
Note to fluters and whistlers: try a high long note in the middle of a set to signal the tune change, saves much arching of the eyebrows!
It depends on how you define "harmonies." If you mean incidental harmonies that happen here and there -- that happens all the time. If you're talkingaout holding a note now and then for drama -- I c'n dig it. But if you're composing counter melodies that run parellel 3rds and 6ths bouncing off of 4ths and 5ths etc. -- yuk!
I agree with Jack I don't want any classical harmonies for the Irish folk music - I want Irish harmonies - sparing, dramatic, and incidental. For old-time I want old-timey harmonies, I like harmonies to be off-the-cuff, inspired by the moment and fairly sparing. There are times when I love the sound of a doubled fiddle though - not playing the melody together but rather one twisting around the other's melody.
We did have an inquiry from a young sessioneer recently, asking why there were so few good harmony and arrangement performers amongst the older school of musicians - It's just not part of the tradition, it it, it's just become part of the crowd-pleasing efforts of young bands ?
On the other hand, searching for a particular tune recently I found three such great variants that I learnt the nicest one, and plonked the other two in front of the lead musicians in my barn-dance band,and it made quite a nice set, my 'zouk + fiddle and flute, all harmonising/syncopating around the bare bones of this tune.
But as a regular thing, who has time to work out harmonies to all these tunes ? Isn't it tough enough trying to learn enough to be able to keep up in a session ?
Used sparingly, they can be fun--either the extended notes that mimic a pipe drone, or the more "classical" harmonies. But like any spice, use too much, and the food tastes awful.
I’ve always liked harmony. When I first started following the revival, thirty years ago, I was puzzled and a little disappointed by the bands who played only unison. I quickly got over it, but with the right combination of players, tune, inspiration and restraint, I still like to hear this music harmonized. For me, it works best as a brief surprise – maybe one or two tunes in an evening and usually not the entire tune.
I like a lot of the highly arranged stuff from the current bands, but I see it as a commercial offshoot of the tradition, to be judged on its own terms, not as folk music. Uninitiated listeners will misunderstand and some will think the more trad stuff is inferior (if they ever hear it) because it’s simpler, but that’s just the way things go. It’s nothing new.
What gets my goatskin is when people try to work in that off- rhythm bit in the middle, when the band stop playing the tune and bugger about with stylised jazz- type bits. It annoys me enough when it's on a record- usually just a token nod in the direction of rock- but when someone tries to do it in a session, oy vay!
Like a bluegrass break? Gerald Trimble did some of that in his last Celtic recording before he disappeared and transmogrified. It sounds entirely inappropriate to me.
Any improvising that is to be done must must be based on the tune, for the tune is king. That's the differerence between us and Jazz. You don't improvise round a groove or a chord structure, you improvise very very colsely to the melody.
As for counterpoint, you can't get much better than The Bothy Band playing the stray away child. Lovely interwieving from Matt Molloy but Kevin Burke always has the tune nailed. Terrific stuff
Yeah Jack - sparing fun harmonies in jamming are great. Unplanned spontaneous. They work well in sessions too - but only if people aren't afraid of being caught jamming.
Harmonies?
Harmonies?
I really love when folk sparingly and judiciously harmonise tunes. It really gives some drive and interest to the ears, especially when guitar or other backing is not present.
Many seem to think that this is outside the tradition and not particularly welcome.
Listening to too many Lunasa records and mushing a tune into a Spinal Tap-esque freeform jazz instrumental is not what we are after here, a few well chosen simple long notes can make all the differnce in brightness and lift
Note to fluters and whistlers: try a high long note in the middle of a set to signal the tune change, saves much arching of the eyebrows!
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by harrywhohaa
Re: Harmonies?
Harmonies? We don't need no stinkin' harmonies!
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Harmonies?
It depends on how you define "harmonies." If you mean incidental harmonies that happen here and there -- that happens all the time. If you're talkingaout holding a note now and then for drama -- I c'n dig it. But if you're composing counter melodies that run parellel 3rds and 6ths bouncing off of 4ths and 5ths etc. -- yuk!
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Harmonies?
I agree with Jack I don't want any classical harmonies for the Irish folk music - I want Irish harmonies - sparing, dramatic, and incidental. For old-time I want old-timey harmonies, I like harmonies to be off-the-cuff, inspired by the moment and fairly sparing. There are times when I love the sound of a doubled fiddle though - not playing the melody together but rather one twisting around the other's melody.
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by musicfan
Re: Harmonies?
You mean as in "jamming"?
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Harmonies?
We did have an inquiry from a young sessioneer recently, asking why there were so few good harmony and arrangement performers amongst the older school of musicians - It's just not part of the tradition, it it, it's just become part of the crowd-pleasing efforts of young bands ?
On the other hand, searching for a particular tune recently I found three such great variants that I learnt the nicest one, and plonked the other two in front of the lead musicians in my barn-dance band,and it made quite a nice set, my 'zouk + fiddle and flute, all harmonising/syncopating around the bare bones of this tune.
But as a regular thing, who has time to work out harmonies to all these tunes ? Isn't it tough enough trying to learn enough to be able to keep up in a session ?
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Harmonies?
Used sparingly, they can be fun--either the extended notes that mimic a pipe drone, or the more "classical" harmonies. But like any spice, use too much, and the food tastes awful.
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Harmonies?
Here's another vote for, "Yes, but sparingly."
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by cathrynb
Re: Harmonies?
I’ve always liked harmony. When I first started following the revival, thirty years ago, I was puzzled and a little disappointed by the bands who played only unison. I quickly got over it, but with the right combination of players, tune, inspiration and restraint, I still like to hear this music harmonized. For me, it works best as a brief surprise – maybe one or two tunes in an evening and usually not the entire tune.
I like a lot of the highly arranged stuff from the current bands, but I see it as a commercial offshoot of the tradition, to be judged on its own terms, not as folk music. Uninitiated listeners will misunderstand and some will think the more trad stuff is inferior (if they ever hear it) because it’s simpler, but that’s just the way things go. It’s nothing new.
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Harmonies?
What gets my goatskin is when people try to work in that off- rhythm bit in the middle, when the band stop playing the tune and bugger about with stylised jazz- type bits. It annoys me enough when it's on a record- usually just a token nod in the direction of rock- but when someone tries to do it in a session, oy vay!
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by LastToFinish
Re: Harmonies?
Like a bluegrass break? Gerald Trimble did some of that in his last Celtic recording before he disappeared and transmogrified. It sounds entirely inappropriate to me.
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Harmonies?
Not meaning to put down Mr. Trimble, though. His other work was excellent.
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Harmonies?
Any improvising that is to be done must must be based on the tune, for the tune is king. That's the differerence between us and Jazz. You don't improvise round a groove or a chord structure, you improvise very very colsely to the melody.
As for counterpoint, you can't get much better than The Bothy Band playing the stray away child. Lovely interwieving from Matt Molloy but Kevin Burke always has the tune nailed. Terrific stuff
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by ...
Re: Harmonies?
Good example, Michael. Not every tune can survive harmony. A lot of them would just sound very sappy or cheesy with harmony.
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Harmonies?
Yeah Jack - sparing fun harmonies in jamming are great. Unplanned spontaneous. They work well in sessions too - but only if people aren't afraid of being caught jamming.
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by musicfan