Any vintage banjo experts out there? I have recently come across what described as a "Vega AS1120" tenor banjo for sale. what is the significance of the number, Model/Serial # ??
Any info/advice on this banjo or what sort of price it is worth would be greatly appreciated ?
I was talking to a mate of mine the other day about tenor banjo's who's a bit of an "expert", and he told me Vega's are the best.So if the price seems right but it!
I just googled it and it came up with several on ebay, however, these look to me like new far east banjos using the Vega name, not the same thing at all as the pre-1970 instruments which are indeed generally very desirable.
When looking for a vega look for Tubaphone, Vegaphone, Whyte Laydie, Vegavox or Little Wonder instruments. These will run the range from cheap to expensive, with Little Wonders being cheapest and Vegavox generally most expensive. Any of those would be a quality instrument and if in good condition an ideal instrument for this music.
I would avoid a modern far east instrument, if only because you can get a much better vintage instrument which will hold its value for similar money, not to mention sound a lot better!
Thanks for the advice Nick. It was on Ebay I spotted it and had my doubts about it. It looks to be in very good condition though. But I would prefer the Vintage Genuine article.
Nick has it right, the vintage (up till the late '60s) are the banjos to buy, even at the lowest end. The reason for this is that Vega banjos were all quality made instruments that the craftsmen that made the #9 banjos (the fanciest) also made the Little Wonders and the Model Ns when they were not engaged in the high end stuff (which they did rarely due to cost, mostly they made Little Wonders according to Vin Mondello whose father worked in the banjo industry in the heyday.)
I have a LW 17 fret and it is my working banjo in spite of several other higher end models in my closet. I just like the way it sounds and feels and it is setup perfectly at this point. If you can find a Little Wonder at a reasonable price (600 Euros is about the highest I'd pay right now) get it if you like it. They rarely go bad if they have managed to survive the past 70 years and they hold their value. Better yet, if you come to the States, we could help you find one at a reasonable price and you could take it home with you. Get two and pay for your trip <G>
Mike,
Thanks for your valuable input. I will keep looking. I have a William Lange 1930`s tenor in great condition with lovely action. One complaint I have about it is that I find it a bit on the quiet side.
Probably because it has a Skin head. When I play in a session I find I am trying to play it too hard to be heard. Trying to play it too hard tends to upset my rythm. I will not sell it till I find a nice replacement. I will look for a plastic head this time for volume.
Lange designed banjos are amongst my favorites and (in my opinion) are terrific for ITM. The Lange tone ring (a metal hoop suspended on 25-40 or so metal plates) can be very loud if set up properly and the sound is sweet to my ears. Check to see if there is any delamination in the rim - if so, you can fill it with glue and then clamp it down (hard) for 24 hours. In addition, make sure that every nut and bolt is tight.
I have a Remo Renaissance head on my Epiphone Recording A (a Lange designed tone ring, maybe built by Lange) that sounds good. If you want a brighter sound, use a clear head (very bright, you may not like it), a smooth top head, a frosted head, or a Fyberskin head in descending order of loudness and brightness. I'm not sure what is available where you live, but Remo, FiveStar, and Ludwig are the main manufacturers of the good banjo heads. A slightly higher bridge will also add volume and a resonator certainly will if you don't already have one.
Another aspect is that your banjo may be louder than you think. Have someone who knows how to play banjo play it in your session for you and listen to see how it sounds to your ear when you are in front of the banjo. I often don't hear mine as well as I think I should and later have other players complain that it was too loud (and I usually play a skin head in sessions.) Of course the ultimate is to have four or five banjos in the session and create a wall of banjos. But I believe that such is illegal in over 50 countries.
Also check the tightness of your head once you put the plastic on and make sure the head produces the sound you want. Skin heads are very tricky when it comes to this aspect of setup. I keep my skin head at 80% of optimal and expect my body heat and the room heat to bring it up to the place I want. Skin is tough and can tolerate a fair amount of tension, just not all the time.
Mike,
replacing the skin is an option I have thought about. I have looked up Remo Skins on the Net which are very cheap to purchase but there seems to be different configurations.
Can you enlighten me on the difference between a "Flat top" and "Arch top" configurations as I do not know what mine is, for to order a skin.
In addition....Is replacing the skin a difficult job for the in-experienced? .... Is there any danger of bursting the replacement skin easily?
Arch top means that is has a smaller ring inside the circumference of the head, shrinking the active area and typically giving a brighter tone . It is a matter of personal taste as to which you prefer. I personally like a large diameter flat tops like the Vega 11 and 13/16ths head which to my ears gives a great chunky sound. Many people like the, to my ears, sharper sound of an archtop, so you just have to experiment and see what you like.
Changing the head can be pretty difficult (if it is a skin head) or relatively straight forward if it is a plastic one. You definitely want to take care with a skin head that you don't over tighten it as it will split, however with the plastic ones applying a bit of commonsense should prevent you from any such difficulties.
"Also check the tightness of your head" - sounds like good advice, so I've just made an appointment to have mine checked out!
There used to be loads of those little short necked Vegas aqround, but although they were easy to play, I never really like the sound of them. I don't really know whether any of those little short necked jobs work as well as the long necked banjos?
Friend of mine has a Tubaphone from around 1903/4 with a beautifully carved neck & that comes pretty close, but I've yet to hear a Vega that sounds as good as a Paragon! But of course they are now as rare as Ptarmigan's teeth!
I think different people just prefer different tones. I really like the way my Style X short-neck tenor sounds. It has the sort of "thumpiness" I like for traditional tunes. The G-string has kind of a "brroooiiinngg" that I really like. My other banjo is sort of the other extreme, a resonator 5-string arch-top. It has a very bright, penetrating, strident tone that's great for bluegrass (its intended use) but not as much to my liking for other stuff. Some tenors I've encountered lean toward that sound and are not what I personally prefer for trad. Still, I've heard some fantastic music come out of a wide range of styles. More than most instruments, the sound you get from a banjo can be altered by the setup. String gauge, head tension, tailpiece height and other factors can give you anything from a very sharp, bright tone to something more smokey and complex. It's all good, just depends on personal preference. I have to admit, I've really neglected banjo of late. What little playing time I have is much more likely to go to the mandolin.
Changing heads is fairly easy unless you are putting a skin head on a flesh ring. I am going to assume you are putting on a plastic head. First you have to make sure you have the correct size. If you are not sure, there is an English site (i don't have it here) that gives you the diameter of some banjo heads. If all else fails, email Vinnie Mondello at Mrvintabebanjo@aol.com (or http://www.4stringbanjos.com) and he can tell you. Better yet measure it yourself <G>
Then decide if it is a flat top (flat across the whole top) or an archtop (an inner ring making a slight slope at the edges) because that determines the size of the crown. IF you have a flat top you can use a high or medium crown. An archtop takes a low crown.
I start by taking the old head off. Loosen the nuts on the hooks and take them off the tension ring. You should be able to take the tension ring off (sometimes they are stuck) and then the head (likewise.) Polish the tone ring and clean all the metal parts at this time as it is easy to do.
Fit the head over the ring with the logo either displayed at the neck or under the tailpeice. If it doesn't fit well, it is the wrong size. Place the tension ring over the head abutting the aluminum ring on the head and start attaching the hooks in a north-south, east-west configuration. I use the eight hooks at the 90 degree points for this. Equally torque them down until the head is within easy reach of all the rest of the hooks.
Take your time!
Then equally tighten the hooks until the head is evenly tightened down but there is still play in the nuts. Adjust the ring so there is an equal amount of space between the bottom of the tension ring and a consitent place on the rim (the bracket feet, for example.) This makes sure that the tension is equal all around the ring. Then you can begin to tighten up for the final fitting.
I use a sequential clockwise incremental turning of the nuts starting with the neck and working all the way around making sure that the tension ring is symmetrically tightened down. Keep going until you feel that there is a fair amount of tension (this is a judgement call, it is very hard to break a head with hook tension, the hooks tend to fail first on an older banjo) and put the bridge and strings on. Then keep tightening slowly until the sound you like is produced. This may take several days as a new head will stretch. If you have a way to measure the head tension or the torque on the nuts, use it as a reference.
After a while you will become more comfortable doing this. Unless your tension ring is not square, there is very little you can do to ruin your banjo while changing the head.
While is it a lot of work to change a head, the results are often worth it. Give the new head at least 6 weeks to settle in before you decide you don't like it.
I always forget this when I write about changing heads.
Once you have a significant abount of tension on your head, say 70%of the final (or even at the final tension), press down very hard (Vinnie Mondello uses his knee or even stands on it) on the head to help the head settle in. This saves a lot of tweaking down the road.
I recently put on a Remo head on my Fairbanks-Vega, Its an old open back with the number 34074 style M, I busted the synthetic head that was on it by trying to tighten it up to much. I put an 11 inch Remo head on it without much trouble. The best advice I received was to tighten it up till the bolts start to squeak. This I found to be were the thread is level with the end of the bracket. Then adjust so as the bottom string (in my case "G" sounds good, not to much base on the heavy string and nice and crisp on the light string ("E"). Too much base - then tighten head, E string not responding enough, tighten head. Go for a sound that suits the type of music that you play. Irish music is mostly played on the lighter strings.
This banjo is a 16 fret, open back, with a ball bearing tone ring (steel ring set on ball bearings). It has the Fairbanks –Vega stamp and number on the Dowel but no number stamped on the ring. Any idea’s of how old it is etc.
heres one for ya, i recently restored my brothers vega short neck tenor banjo that walter kay bauer purchases for him in 1956. it is 1 of only 3 made. the man i had restore it in torrington ct. was an apprentice to the original maker in 1956. it was played by robert kennedy who many proclaim was the greatest tenor banjo player in the world. he actually played classical music with the bauer banjo band in conn.
Vega Tenor Banjo
Vega Tenor Banjo
Any vintage banjo experts out there? I have recently come across what described as a "Vega AS1120" tenor banjo for sale. what is the significance of the number, Model/Serial # ??
Any info/advice on this banjo or what sort of price it is worth would be greatly appreciated ?
# Posted on November 28th 2005 by squelly
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
I was talking to a mate of mine the other day about tenor banjo's who's a bit of an "expert", and he told me Vega's are the best.So if the price seems right but it!
# Posted on November 28th 2005 by Justintime
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
I mean buY it.
# Posted on November 28th 2005 by Justintime
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
I just googled it and it came up with several on ebay, however, these look to me like new far east banjos using the Vega name, not the same thing at all as the pre-1970 instruments which are indeed generally very desirable.
When looking for a vega look for Tubaphone, Vegaphone, Whyte Laydie, Vegavox or Little Wonder instruments. These will run the range from cheap to expensive, with Little Wonders being cheapest and Vegavox generally most expensive. Any of those would be a quality instrument and if in good condition an ideal instrument for this music.
I would avoid a modern far east instrument, if only because you can get a much better vintage instrument which will hold its value for similar money, not to mention sound a lot better!
# Posted on November 28th 2005 by nick b
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
Thanks for the advice Nick. It was on Ebay I spotted it and had my doubts about it. It looks to be in very good condition though. But I would prefer the Vintage Genuine article.
# Posted on November 28th 2005 by squelly
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
Squelly,
Nick has it right, the vintage (up till the late '60s) are the banjos to buy, even at the lowest end. The reason for this is that Vega banjos were all quality made instruments that the craftsmen that made the #9 banjos (the fanciest) also made the Little Wonders and the Model Ns when they were not engaged in the high end stuff (which they did rarely due to cost, mostly they made Little Wonders according to Vin Mondello whose father worked in the banjo industry in the heyday.)
I have a LW 17 fret and it is my working banjo in spite of several other higher end models in my closet. I just like the way it sounds and feels and it is setup perfectly at this point. If you can find a Little Wonder at a reasonable price (600 Euros is about the highest I'd pay right now) get it if you like it. They rarely go bad if they have managed to survive the past 70 years and they hold their value. Better yet, if you come to the States, we could help you find one at a reasonable price and you could take it home with you. Get two and pay for your trip <G>
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com/oct05/interview.html
# Posted on November 28th 2005 by mikeyes
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
Mike,
Thanks for your valuable input. I will keep looking. I have a William Lange 1930`s tenor in great condition with lovely action. One complaint I have about it is that I find it a bit on the quiet side.
Probably because it has a Skin head. When I play in a session I find I am trying to play it too hard to be heard. Trying to play it too hard tends to upset my rythm. I will not sell it till I find a nice replacement. I will look for a plastic head this time for volume.
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by squelly
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
Lange designed banjos are amongst my favorites and (in my opinion) are terrific for ITM. The Lange tone ring (a metal hoop suspended on 25-40 or so metal plates) can be very loud if set up properly and the sound is sweet to my ears. Check to see if there is any delamination in the rim - if so, you can fill it with glue and then clamp it down (hard) for 24 hours. In addition, make sure that every nut and bolt is tight.
I have a Remo Renaissance head on my Epiphone Recording A (a Lange designed tone ring, maybe built by Lange) that sounds good. If you want a brighter sound, use a clear head (very bright, you may not like it), a smooth top head, a frosted head, or a Fyberskin head in descending order of loudness and brightness. I'm not sure what is available where you live, but Remo, FiveStar, and Ludwig are the main manufacturers of the good banjo heads. A slightly higher bridge will also add volume and a resonator certainly will if you don't already have one.
Another aspect is that your banjo may be louder than you think. Have someone who knows how to play banjo play it in your session for you and listen to see how it sounds to your ear when you are in front of the banjo. I often don't hear mine as well as I think I should and later have other players complain that it was too loud (and I usually play a skin head in sessions.) Of course the ultimate is to have four or five banjos in the session and create a wall of banjos. But I believe that such is illegal in over 50 countries.
Also check the tightness of your head once you put the plastic on and make sure the head produces the sound you want. Skin heads are very tricky when it comes to this aspect of setup. I keep my skin head at 80% of optimal and expect my body heat and the room heat to bring it up to the place I want. Skin is tough and can tolerate a fair amount of tension, just not all the time.
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com/oct05/interview.html
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by mikeyes
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
Mike,
replacing the skin is an option I have thought about. I have looked up Remo Skins on the Net which are very cheap to purchase but there seems to be different configurations.
Can you enlighten me on the difference between a "Flat top" and "Arch top" configurations as I do not know what mine is, for to order a skin.
In addition....Is replacing the skin a difficult job for the in-experienced? .... Is there any danger of bursting the replacement skin easily?
# Posted on November 30th 2005 by squelly
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
Arch top means that is has a smaller ring inside the circumference of the head, shrinking the active area and typically giving a brighter tone . It is a matter of personal taste as to which you prefer. I personally like a large diameter flat tops like the Vega 11 and 13/16ths head which to my ears gives a great chunky sound. Many people like the, to my ears, sharper sound of an archtop, so you just have to experiment and see what you like.
Changing the head can be pretty difficult (if it is a skin head) or relatively straight forward if it is a plastic one. You definitely want to take care with a skin head that you don't over tighten it as it will split, however with the plastic ones applying a bit of commonsense should prevent you from any such difficulties.
# Posted on November 30th 2005 by nick b
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
"Also check the tightness of your head" - sounds like good advice, so I've just made an appointment to have mine checked out!
There used to be loads of those little short necked Vegas aqround, but although they were easy to play, I never really like the sound of them. I don't really know whether any of those little short necked jobs work as well as the long necked banjos?
Friend of mine has a Tubaphone from around 1903/4 with a beautifully carved neck & that comes pretty close, but I've yet to hear a Vega that sounds as good as a Paragon! But of course they are now as rare as Ptarmigan's teeth!
# Posted on November 30th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
If you are a really good bird, one day I will let you play my style X no 9, it will rock your world - heh heh heh
# Posted on November 30th 2005 by nick b
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
I think different people just prefer different tones. I really like the way my Style X short-neck tenor sounds. It has the sort of "thumpiness" I like for traditional tunes. The G-string has kind of a "brroooiiinngg" that I really like. My other banjo is sort of the other extreme, a resonator 5-string arch-top. It has a very bright, penetrating, strident tone that's great for bluegrass (its intended use) but not as much to my liking for other stuff. Some tenors I've encountered lean toward that sound and are not what I personally prefer for trad. Still, I've heard some fantastic music come out of a wide range of styles. More than most instruments, the sound you get from a banjo can be altered by the setup. String gauge, head tension, tailpiece height and other factors can give you anything from a very sharp, bright tone to something more smokey and complex. It's all good, just depends on personal preference. I have to admit, I've really neglected banjo of late. What little playing time I have is much more likely to go to the mandolin.
# Posted on November 30th 2005 by devellis
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
Changing heads is fairly easy unless you are putting a skin head on a flesh ring. I am going to assume you are putting on a plastic head. First you have to make sure you have the correct size. If you are not sure, there is an English site (i don't have it here) that gives you the diameter of some banjo heads. If all else fails, email Vinnie Mondello at Mrvintabebanjo@aol.com (or http://www.4stringbanjos.com) and he can tell you. Better yet measure it yourself <G>
Then decide if it is a flat top (flat across the whole top) or an archtop (an inner ring making a slight slope at the edges) because that determines the size of the crown. IF you have a flat top you can use a high or medium crown. An archtop takes a low crown.
I start by taking the old head off. Loosen the nuts on the hooks and take them off the tension ring. You should be able to take the tension ring off (sometimes they are stuck) and then the head (likewise.) Polish the tone ring and clean all the metal parts at this time as it is easy to do.
Fit the head over the ring with the logo either displayed at the neck or under the tailpeice. If it doesn't fit well, it is the wrong size. Place the tension ring over the head abutting the aluminum ring on the head and start attaching the hooks in a north-south, east-west configuration. I use the eight hooks at the 90 degree points for this. Equally torque them down until the head is within easy reach of all the rest of the hooks.
Take your time!
Then equally tighten the hooks until the head is evenly tightened down but there is still play in the nuts. Adjust the ring so there is an equal amount of space between the bottom of the tension ring and a consitent place on the rim (the bracket feet, for example.) This makes sure that the tension is equal all around the ring. Then you can begin to tighten up for the final fitting.
I use a sequential clockwise incremental turning of the nuts starting with the neck and working all the way around making sure that the tension ring is symmetrically tightened down. Keep going until you feel that there is a fair amount of tension (this is a judgement call, it is very hard to break a head with hook tension, the hooks tend to fail first on an older banjo) and put the bridge and strings on. Then keep tightening slowly until the sound you like is produced. This may take several days as a new head will stretch. If you have a way to measure the head tension or the torque on the nuts, use it as a reference.
After a while you will become more comfortable doing this. Unless your tension ring is not square, there is very little you can do to ruin your banjo while changing the head.
While is it a lot of work to change a head, the results are often worth it. Give the new head at least 6 weeks to settle in before you decide you don't like it.
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com/oct05/interview.html
# Posted on November 30th 2005 by mikeyes
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
Devellis, you and I clearly think alike when it comes to banjo sound, how nice to know one is not alone
# Posted on December 1st 2005 by nick b
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
I always forget this when I write about changing heads.
Once you have a significant abount of tension on your head, say 70%of the final (or even at the final tension), press down very hard (Vinnie Mondello uses his knee or even stands on it) on the head to help the head settle in. This saves a lot of tweaking down the road.
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com/dec05/triplets.html
# Posted on December 2nd 2005 by mikeyes
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
I recently put on a Remo head on my Fairbanks-Vega, Its an old open back with the number 34074 style M, I busted the synthetic head that was on it by trying to tighten it up to much. I put an 11 inch Remo head on it without much trouble. The best advice I received was to tighten it up till the bolts start to squeak. This I found to be were the thread is level with the end of the bracket. Then adjust so as the bottom string (in my case "G" sounds good, not to much base on the heavy string and nice and crisp on the light string ("E"). Too much base - then tighten head, E string not responding enough, tighten head. Go for a sound that suits the type of music that you play. Irish music is mostly played on the lighter strings.
This banjo is a 16 fret, open back, with a ball bearing tone ring (steel ring set on ball bearings). It has the Fairbanks –Vega stamp and number on the Dowel but no number stamped on the ring. Any idea’s of how old it is etc.
# Posted on December 7th 2005 by ckeogh
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
heres one for ya, i recently restored my brothers vega short neck tenor banjo that walter kay bauer purchases for him in 1956. it is 1 of only 3 made. the man i had restore it in torrington ct. was an apprentice to the original maker in 1956. it was played by robert kennedy who many proclaim was the greatest tenor banjo player in the world. he actually played classical music with the bauer banjo band in conn.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by ronkisok
Re: Vega Tenor Banjo
i think they called it a "vega vox" it is the most beautiful banjo i have ever seen, a lot of pearl, hand carved and what a sound.
# Posted on August 22nd 2011 by ronkisok