He was making a joke about putting illustrated patterns or pictures on your accordion, not musical ornamentation.
I would help you out further, but I don't know how relevant the small slice of button-box ornamentation I have learnt would be.
Ahhhhh! You're from Poland. Sorry. An English play on words that may not translate. How some of Stanislaw Lem's English translators manage all the extremely subtle word play is beyond me. For that matter how Joseph Conrad managed to write the way he did in English is beyond me.
I guess I should point out that "sham" is English for "false" or "fake." Sham-rock. A fake rock. Some people don't like piano accordian.
Having dispensed with the puns, we might address the musical part of the question. Since I'm not a piano accordion player, I can't give you very good advice specific to the instrument, but there are some things about ornaments generally. I found it a lot easier to work with ornaments on all instruments once I realized that they're not melodic devices, but rhythmic ones. That is, the ornament is more a way to punch up the rhythm of the tune, not so much a part of the melody. The reason they're often treated as melodic devices (ie, written into staff notation as a set of grace notes a la Krassen's edition of O'Neill) is that for fiddles and flutes and whistles and pipes the best way to produce that rhythmic effect is by inserting those grace notes. On a fiddle or a whistle, a roll on an E is done by playing the E and gracing it with the F# above and the D below: E(F#)E(D)E, all crammed into a quarter note or so. For instruments that don't produce the tone separately and continuously (by breath, bag, or bow), these rolls are not the most effective way to get that rhythmic effect. A guitarist, for example, can get at best one grace note by pulling off or hammering on the string, and to try to execute a roll on the guitar is really pushing the limits of what can be done. Guitarists, therefore, tend to rely more on the pick for their ornaments, using triplets where fiddlers would roll. A button box player (B/C) trying to play that E roll as I've written it above would require a change in bellows direction, which is tough to do in that space of time, so John Williams suggests a roll which gets you E(G)E(D#)E. Because the ornament requires so little time, the D# doesn't sound out of place - it's gone before you know it was there. Likewise, his roll on a B gives B(C#)B(Bb)B - doubly out if you're in G, but the important thing is that blip of sound around the melody, a bit of white noise almost, that makes it percussive and punchy.
All that might help you find ornaments that work for you - as long as they give a good punch to the tune and don't call attention to themselves, they're probably right enough.
Certainly it can't hurt to take something like Krassen's edition of O'Neill or McCullough's tin whistle tutor and play the tunes, trying to interpret their ornaments literally on the piano box. You'll probably find that some things work, and some don't come off smooth, but you'll get a start at it.
As far as the piano box goes, the ornaments I use regularly are the triplet, roll and grace notes.
The triplet is played with the 3,2,1 finger on the same note, fast as possible.
The roll is usually the note, the note above, the note below and the note again. At least, this is the way I play it.
Regular triplets, played as grace notes seem to be standard ornaments for a lot of ITM tunes, as well as regular grace notes.
I have seen some music notated with a grace note above a note, on one beat, and a grace note below a note on the next beat.
Phil Cunningham and Jimmy Keane come to mind as piano box players you should listen to.
If you are listening to CDs and have Windows Media Player 9 or 10, there is a feature under the View menu>Enhancements, called Play Speed Settings which allows you to slow the music down. It really lets you hear what is going on, especially with the ornaments. Depending on the CD format, you might need to convert the files to MP3's or WMP formats for the Speed Settings plugin to work .
Try Karen Tweed's Irish Choice (tune book); it goes along with 2 cd's (Drops of Springwater and The Silver Spire).
The book contains a short but good introduction on accordion style and ornamentation!
Dave Mallinson publications, 1994 (I think it's www.mally.com)
I play the piano accordion, too, and have probably learned more by listening to players of other instruments than to piano accordion players. There are loads and loads of great recordings of fiddlers, pipers, button accordion and concertina players around. Not very many piano accordionists, though.
It's getting the right sound that's important, and I also find that if I put a bit of thought into it I can transfer a lot of actual technique from other instruments to the piano box.
If you do a search of this site for provious discussions on this you will find lots of stuff. Good luck!
hi. PA is a pretty good instrument for ornamentation so here are some that i use:
rolls, i generally never use the bottom note of the three because it blurs the effect on box's but as the second note of the roll, i would use anything from do to soh as it creates a nice harmonic effect.
triplets is a popular one on PA but sometimes i prefer to throw in the other fingers and create a quadruplet and quintuplet, in the same time value as a triplet would have taken, if it's done clearly it's a grand wee effect. also then, i recently started using what could be described as triplet chords and are self explanitory. a fast rist would be preferable while doing it. fiddlers like ciaran tourish and frankie gavin use em alot.
a nice way to ornament a melody particularly a slow one(cause it's easier) is to play the tune in octaves, playing the melody on the higher end of the keyboard with your fingers and same tune lower with thumb. takes practice though...
it is also very possible and not hard to bend notes on box, jazz players use it alot and through a similar prosess achieve harmonics although in actual dance music, it isn't always easy to find a practical use put it would enable you to play pieces like the fox chase which are normally confined to fiddle&pipes.
speaking of pipes, pipers crans can also be done on box, i always cheat and play (if i was in d) DEGED really fast and it gets you the same effect.
then a new technique which i'm looking at is if you were to hold down a chord,keep the belows well in and make circular movements on them, you get a real tight rhythmic effect, like a tremolo on strings almost. it could be used nicely like triplet chords but smoother.
then of course you have cuts, slurs, grace notes, appoggiaturas, arpeggios etc but sure everyone knows about them ones so that's my pennys worth!
hope it helps,
well, you only press down on the note about a quarter of the way and press hard on the bellows on the way in. the more pressure put on the bellows the lower the note goes down. takes quite a bit of practice...
The type of ornamentation you use for a particular piece also depends upon the instrument for which the music was written. For example pipe tunes have specific types of oramnentation used by the piper whch are impossible to play on a (I did have an ornamentation guide for pipe music. If I can find it I will post it on the site). Ornamentations for pipe music is quitee different from pieces written for fiddle. I suggest that you listen to solo recordings and develop your style from them .
Accordion ornamentation.
Accordion ornamentation.
Hello!
Can You tell me something about ornamentation in ITM on accordion (Piano box)?
What recordings are good to learn in ITM ortamentation learning purposes ?
Greg
# Posted on November 25th 2005 by Tubular_bell
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
"Can You tell me something about ornamentation in ITM on accordion . . .?"
Skip the shamrocks and leprechuans. Go for some Celtic knots or something.
Be cautious of people approaching you with real rocks.
KFG
# Posted on November 25th 2005 by KFG
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
Sorry, I do not understand properly what you have wrote here, can you describe it eaisier?
Gregory
# Posted on November 25th 2005 by Tubular_bell
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
He was making a joke about putting illustrated patterns or pictures on your accordion, not musical ornamentation.
I would help you out further, but I don't know how relevant the small slice of button-box ornamentation I have learnt would be.
# Posted on November 26th 2005 by kjay_bc_box
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
Ahhhhh! You're from Poland. Sorry. An English play on words that may not translate. How some of Stanislaw Lem's English translators manage all the extremely subtle word play is beyond me. For that matter how Joseph Conrad managed to write the way he did in English is beyond me.
I guess I should point out that "sham" is English for "false" or "fake." Sham-rock. A fake rock. Some people don't like piano accordian.
KFG
# Posted on November 26th 2005 by KFG
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
Having dispensed with the puns, we might address the musical part of the question. Since I'm not a piano accordion player, I can't give you very good advice specific to the instrument, but there are some things about ornaments generally. I found it a lot easier to work with ornaments on all instruments once I realized that they're not melodic devices, but rhythmic ones. That is, the ornament is more a way to punch up the rhythm of the tune, not so much a part of the melody. The reason they're often treated as melodic devices (ie, written into staff notation as a set of grace notes a la Krassen's edition of O'Neill) is that for fiddles and flutes and whistles and pipes the best way to produce that rhythmic effect is by inserting those grace notes. On a fiddle or a whistle, a roll on an E is done by playing the E and gracing it with the F# above and the D below: E(F#)E(D)E, all crammed into a quarter note or so. For instruments that don't produce the tone separately and continuously (by breath, bag, or bow), these rolls are not the most effective way to get that rhythmic effect. A guitarist, for example, can get at best one grace note by pulling off or hammering on the string, and to try to execute a roll on the guitar is really pushing the limits of what can be done. Guitarists, therefore, tend to rely more on the pick for their ornaments, using triplets where fiddlers would roll. A button box player (B/C) trying to play that E roll as I've written it above would require a change in bellows direction, which is tough to do in that space of time, so John Williams suggests a roll which gets you E(G)E(D#)E. Because the ornament requires so little time, the D# doesn't sound out of place - it's gone before you know it was there. Likewise, his roll on a B gives B(C#)B(Bb)B - doubly out if you're in G, but the important thing is that blip of sound around the melody, a bit of white noise almost, that makes it percussive and punchy.
All that might help you find ornaments that work for you - as long as they give a good punch to the tune and don't call attention to themselves, they're probably right enough.
Certainly it can't hurt to take something like Krassen's edition of O'Neill or McCullough's tin whistle tutor and play the tunes, trying to interpret their ornaments literally on the piano box. You'll probably find that some things work, and some don't come off smooth, but you'll get a start at it.
# Posted on November 26th 2005 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
As far as the piano box goes, the ornaments I use regularly are the triplet, roll and grace notes.
The triplet is played with the 3,2,1 finger on the same note, fast as possible.
The roll is usually the note, the note above, the note below and the note again. At least, this is the way I play it.
Regular triplets, played as grace notes seem to be standard ornaments for a lot of ITM tunes, as well as regular grace notes.
I have seen some music notated with a grace note above a note, on one beat, and a grace note below a note on the next beat.
Phil Cunningham and Jimmy Keane come to mind as piano box players you should listen to.
If you are listening to CDs and have Windows Media Player 9 or 10, there is a feature under the View menu>Enhancements, called Play Speed Settings which allows you to slow the music down. It really lets you hear what is going on, especially with the ornaments. Depending on the CD format, you might need to convert the files to MP3's or WMP formats for the Speed Settings plugin to work .
# Posted on November 26th 2005 by rogfox
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
Try Karen Tweed's Irish Choice (tune book); it goes along with 2 cd's (Drops of Springwater and The Silver Spire).
The book contains a short but good introduction on accordion style and ornamentation!
Dave Mallinson publications, 1994 (I think it's www.mally.com)
# Posted on November 26th 2005 by Henk Bos
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
I play the piano accordion, too, and have probably learned more by listening to players of other instruments than to piano accordion players. There are loads and loads of great recordings of fiddlers, pipers, button accordion and concertina players around. Not very many piano accordionists, though.
It's getting the right sound that's important, and I also find that if I put a bit of thought into it I can transfer a lot of actual technique from other instruments to the piano box.
If you do a search of this site for provious discussions on this you will find lots of stuff. Good luck!
# Posted on November 26th 2005 by kris
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
hi. PA is a pretty good instrument for ornamentation so here are some that i use:
rolls, i generally never use the bottom note of the three because it blurs the effect on box's but as the second note of the roll, i would use anything from do to soh as it creates a nice harmonic effect.
triplets is a popular one on PA but sometimes i prefer to throw in the other fingers and create a quadruplet and quintuplet, in the same time value as a triplet would have taken, if it's done clearly it's a grand wee effect. also then, i recently started using what could be described as triplet chords and are self explanitory. a fast rist would be preferable while doing it. fiddlers like ciaran tourish and frankie gavin use em alot.
a nice way to ornament a melody particularly a slow one(cause it's easier) is to play the tune in octaves, playing the melody on the higher end of the keyboard with your fingers and same tune lower with thumb. takes practice though...
it is also very possible and not hard to bend notes on box, jazz players use it alot and through a similar prosess achieve harmonics although in actual dance music, it isn't always easy to find a practical use put it would enable you to play pieces like the fox chase which are normally confined to fiddle&pipes.
speaking of pipes, pipers crans can also be done on box, i always cheat and play (if i was in d) DEGED really fast and it gets you the same effect.
then a new technique which i'm looking at is if you were to hold down a chord,keep the belows well in and make circular movements on them, you get a real tight rhythmic effect, like a tremolo on strings almost. it could be used nicely like triplet chords but smoother.
then of course you have cuts, slurs, grace notes, appoggiaturas, arpeggios etc but sure everyone knows about them ones so that's my pennys worth!
hope it helps,
martin tourish.
# Posted on November 27th 2005 by martin t
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
Still giggling about the sham-rocks ..... and what about the Celtic knots? Must be some Scottish football jokes in there somewhere?
# Posted on November 27th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
I heard some bending notes on PA on Irish Rovers recordings, but I have no idea how to do it.
Is it possible on ordinary accordion?
How can I do it ?
Greg
# Posted on November 28th 2005 by Tubular_bell
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
well, you only press down on the note about a quarter of the way and press hard on the bellows on the way in. the more pressure put on the bellows the lower the note goes down. takes quite a bit of practice...
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by martin t
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
Does it change a tuning of the reed ? Or no ?
Is it dangerous to accordion reed ?
Greg
# Posted on November 29th 2005 by Tubular_bell
Re: Accordion ornamentation.
The type of ornamentation you use for a particular piece also depends upon the instrument for which the music was written. For example pipe tunes have specific types of oramnentation used by the piper whch are impossible to play on a (I did have an ornamentation guide for pipe music. If I can find it I will post it on the site). Ornamentations for pipe music is quitee different from pieces written for fiddle. I suggest that you listen to solo recordings and develop your style from them .
# Posted on December 3rd 2005 by rod johnston