I'm looking to buy an Irish flute, but know almost nothing about the instrument. I'm buying it as a gift for someone who is an excellent classical flute player looking to learn Irish music. I'm not looking for a student model, but I'm also not independantly wealthy. Give me some reviews if you can. Thanks a lot.
sorry - I should have thought about that. $1,000 seems reasonable to me.....much more than that might start pulling at the purse strings a bit too much, but if it's really worth it, then I might be willing.
If the gift is going to be a surprise, I wouldn't spend more than a few hundred - this will get very good instruments, actually. If the flute is NOT going to be a surprise, than I would advise the giftee to do as much research as possible.
If you want to play it safe, get one of the following:
-Casey Burns Folk Flute (~$250)
-Ralph Sweet Rosewood (~$250)
-M & E "Rudall & Rose" model (~400-500 depending on goodies. THis one is made of polymer - ie plastic)
-Seery (~$550?) also polymer.
Any of these can allow a player to play some great Irish music in a session or performance. A lot of really fine players don't use anything fancier.
I currently play a M & E polymer flute, and it's been great. It sounds good and in tune, relatively loud. THe big downside is that it's somewhat more uncomfortable to play than a comparable wooden flute because it's heavier and a tad more top-heavy. ON the positive, polymer is fantastic! I leave it assembled constantly (which is a bad idea with real wood) and so I get a tremendous amount of casual playing time that I wouldn;t get with a wooden instrument. No one can tell that it;s plastic from hearing it (Or looking at it from more than 8 inches away).
If you decide to "go for it" from the outset, you can get a flute from some first class makers: Some great (keyless) flutes in that range or just a bit more (like around $1200-1300 USD should do it.)
Chris Wilkes (UK)
Patrick Olwell (USA)
Sam Murray (Belfast? I believe)
"Hammy" Hamilton (Eire)
Michael Grinter (Australia)
Terry McGee (Aus)
Peter Noy (USA)
George Ormiston (Scotland)
THe downside is that all of these makers have substantial waiting lists. The other, more significant downside is that flutes are very individual - I wouldn't blow a grand on a gift for someone without feeling very confident that the instrument will suit his/her preferences. Even though flutes look pretty much look identical, there are a number of important factors to consider: large bore vs. small bore, large vs. small holes, what type of wood, etc. One of the biggest variables is how different makers cut the embouchure (blow hole). Even as a classical flautist, your giftee may not have an appreciation for how these factors work on a conical, simple-system flute (The fancy term for "Irish flute.")
THe absolute best thing to do would be to get the giftee to try out as many instruments as possible. I've messed around with Olwells, Murrays, and a Hammy or two. THey are all very nice. FOr instant user-friendliness, it's pretty much impossible to go wrong with an Olwell-not that that is necesserily the best quality in a flute.
Last but not least - DEFINITELY get your friend a whistle - the fingering is the same as a flute, so they are super convenient for practicing in the car and causing wrecks ;)
if you are near indiana, grey larsen might let you try out a mcgee. he only carries grey larsen preferred, but they can get an idea of his manufacturing and embouchure.
dave copley is in kentucky lives in ohio, he also makes a good flute. i've never played one (i guess i had the chance once but i didnt ask), although hopefully next year i will get down to see him and try one out. my uncle got to try several copleys (D and Eb) next to eachother (dave was wherever he was), and at least one olwell. he says that they are pretty close. he does not play wooden flute, because he grew up in the time when there were no new classical flutes. so for him, he felt the only option was boehm. here he is, 20 plus years later, and now he simply doesnt care.
point is, even though he does not play wooden flute, he recommends a copley. he says it was the first wooden flute he ever liked that he played (besides and olwell), and he told dave copley that he would recommend them. i dont know if he'll get one, but i hear him leaning towards an Eb.
besides a lenghty and pointless story, telling you someone's opinion beside my own, the whole point is that its hard to tell. i dont know what flutes he has played beside copley, and no one else mentioned, and he gives a strong recomendation on it. so i thought i'd give you another name.
different people like different stuff. i dont have the money, so it doesnt matter what i like. i plan on trying a mcgee out and a copley, and i plan on maybe trying out seery and m&e, and then in a couple years after buying my 2 concertinas i will look into it.
all the names wormdiet mentioned are great, but thats the trouble. they're all great, and what do you pick? my uncle, for one, sometimes choses instruments over other ones because of their response over their tone (he plays aluminum burkes over brass even though he likes the brass sound better), whereas i am a tone-fiend. i like my embochoures to create good sound (even if it would take me years to learn on a new instrument as long as it had a good end result), whereas your friend might want to just play now. maybe they want polymer, maybe they want wood. maybe they want to be easier in tune, or maybe they want the harmonics. maybe they want big holes, maybe they want smaller.
sorry to make things more complicated (and add a new name to the list of makers), but i think wormdiet is right. that there are so many variables. however, the converse is true. all the flutes he mentioned are quality, and any flutist (myself included) would be more than lucky to receive any of them.
i think wormdiet's first point is the most important. if they know you're getting it, ask what they want. if they dont care, then you can decide if you want a less expensive polymer (for ruggedness) or if they want a more expensive flute, and whether or not they want to chose the maker, or that they just want to go on the most recommended one.
and yes, to restate again, your friend needs a whistle if they dont have one.
On the McGee - the model Larsen carries is a bit different from most Irish flutes.
The two "ur" flute styles in the Irish world are "Pratten" and "Rudall" styles. I won't comment on what that means (There's another recent thread on that topic that will point you to better info than I could provide), except to say that the Larsen model McGee is something of a different animal. Specifically, it's got smaller toneholes and a smaller bore than other styles. The advantage to this is that it is very responsive, crisp, and quick, and can have a good complex tone. A disadvantage is that they can seem quieter than other types of flute, which will matter if playing with other instruments. It might actually be a great flute for a crossover silver player.
id go for sam murray flute.they are reasonably priced and are one of the best flutes you can buy.value for money.
they are a lot cheaper than than the other top makers.
I have a Dave Copley flute - price falls nicely below the very high profile makers (keyless blackwood currently $865) and none other than Mick McGoldrick commented favourably on the tone of it at a workshop. I love it, and have used it in my transition from classical flute over the past year. His waiting time is currently only 6 weeks, and second hand ones crop up very ocassionally (I got mine for $750 - like most good wooden flutes they hold their value well). The website also says he's going to be doing a version without a tuning slide for $480, but I suspect most people here would advise you to go for the tuning slide if there's any possibility of the recipient ever wanting to play in a session.
I've also heard good things about Sam Murray's flutes, and I got to play and Eamon Cotter flute briefly the other weekend and it felt and sounded pretty good, but not good enough to tempt me away from my Copley!
Have fun with this decision - let us know what you plump for and how your friend gets on with it
I second Sam Murray as being a very good flute but could take quite a while. However not as long as other flutes such as Patrick Olwell has been known to take anything over 7 years!!
How long are you wanting to wait?
Let us know how you're getting on. Whatever you do, check with a flute player before paying a lot of money for a flute!
I think the long wait for (some) Olwells stems from the fact that he apparently hates making keys. . . but the waits on keyless flutes are a lot more reasonable.
FWIW - You really don't need a tuning slide to play in a session. Most slideless flutes have tenons long enough to tune, and baroque flutes never had tuning slides yet they can play in ensembles, etc.
I play a 4 key Ralph Sweet flute that doesn't have a tuning slide, and I can tune sharp enough to play in tune even in a cold room.
wormdiet - thats why i said idea of the manufacture and tonehole, so they could look into a pratten or a rudall and rose mcgee if they liked what they saw in the glp, but i guess i forgot that they wouldnt know it was a smaller holed, quieter flute. thansk for pointing it out.
and how long does a keyless olwell take? i've never been able to get a good answer. and how much deposit does he require? if i have the money i'm already waiting 3 years for a concertina so if its about that long i might get on his wait list next year so that i can have a reprieve between purchases. i know the the keyed ones can take 7 or 8 years.
daiv--Last I heard, the wait for a keyless Olwell was 16-18 months.
finster16--If you want to receive the flute by Christmas, this really whittles down the possibilities (not necessarily a bad thing, given the variety of choices).
I play, and very much like, a Copley flute.
Another great maker with a short waiting list is Martin Doyle. Check the link above for contact info.
While a tuning slide isn't a life or death decision, get one if you can.
Unfortunately you could wait a VERY long time for one of Sam's flutes. Sam is now located in Galway at the Old Forge and his contact number is +35391532848 if you want to try him.
The quality of the workmanship is outstanding and many top notch players use his instruments.
buying a flute
buying a flute
Hey everybody,
I'm looking to buy an Irish flute, but know almost nothing about the instrument. I'm buying it as a gift for someone who is an excellent classical flute player looking to learn Irish music. I'm not looking for a student model, but I'm also not independantly wealthy. Give me some reviews if you can. Thanks a lot.
# Posted on November 20th 2005 by finster16
Re: buying a flute
If you give us a price range, you'll get a more useful response...
Eric
# Posted on November 20th 2005 by Jayhawk
Re: buying a flute
sorry - I should have thought about that. $1,000 seems reasonable to me.....much more than that might start pulling at the purse strings a bit too much, but if it's really worth it, then I might be willing.
# Posted on November 20th 2005 by finster16
Re: buying a flute
If the gift is going to be a surprise, I wouldn't spend more than a few hundred - this will get very good instruments, actually. If the flute is NOT going to be a surprise, than I would advise the giftee to do as much research as possible.
If you want to play it safe, get one of the following:
-Casey Burns Folk Flute (~$250)
-Ralph Sweet Rosewood (~$250)
-M & E "Rudall & Rose" model (~400-500 depending on goodies. THis one is made of polymer - ie plastic)
-Seery (~$550?) also polymer.
Any of these can allow a player to play some great Irish music in a session or performance. A lot of really fine players don't use anything fancier.
I currently play a M & E polymer flute, and it's been great. It sounds good and in tune, relatively loud. THe big downside is that it's somewhat more uncomfortable to play than a comparable wooden flute because it's heavier and a tad more top-heavy. ON the positive, polymer is fantastic! I leave it assembled constantly (which is a bad idea with real wood) and so I get a tremendous amount of casual playing time that I wouldn;t get with a wooden instrument. No one can tell that it;s plastic from hearing it (Or looking at it from more than 8 inches away).
If you decide to "go for it" from the outset, you can get a flute from some first class makers: Some great (keyless) flutes in that range or just a bit more (like around $1200-1300 USD should do it.)
Chris Wilkes (UK)
Patrick Olwell (USA)
Sam Murray (Belfast? I believe)
"Hammy" Hamilton (Eire)
Michael Grinter (Australia)
Terry McGee (Aus)
Peter Noy (USA)
George Ormiston (Scotland)
THe downside is that all of these makers have substantial waiting lists. The other, more significant downside is that flutes are very individual - I wouldn't blow a grand on a gift for someone without feeling very confident that the instrument will suit his/her preferences. Even though flutes look pretty much look identical, there are a number of important factors to consider: large bore vs. small bore, large vs. small holes, what type of wood, etc. One of the biggest variables is how different makers cut the embouchure (blow hole). Even as a classical flautist, your giftee may not have an appreciation for how these factors work on a conical, simple-system flute (The fancy term for "Irish flute.")
THe absolute best thing to do would be to get the giftee to try out as many instruments as possible. I've messed around with Olwells, Murrays, and a Hammy or two. THey are all very nice. FOr instant user-friendliness, it's pretty much impossible to go wrong with an Olwell-not that that is necesserily the best quality in a flute.
Last but not least - DEFINITELY get your friend a whistle - the fingering is the same as a flute, so they are super convenient for practicing in the car and causing wrecks ;)
Hope this helps
# Posted on November 20th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: buying a flute
if you are near indiana, grey larsen might let you try out a mcgee. he only carries grey larsen preferred, but they can get an idea of his manufacturing and embouchure.
dave copley is in kentucky lives in ohio, he also makes a good flute. i've never played one (i guess i had the chance once but i didnt ask), although hopefully next year i will get down to see him and try one out. my uncle got to try several copleys (D and Eb) next to eachother (dave was wherever he was), and at least one olwell. he says that they are pretty close. he does not play wooden flute, because he grew up in the time when there were no new classical flutes. so for him, he felt the only option was boehm. here he is, 20 plus years later, and now he simply doesnt care.
point is, even though he does not play wooden flute, he recommends a copley. he says it was the first wooden flute he ever liked that he played (besides and olwell), and he told dave copley that he would recommend them. i dont know if he'll get one, but i hear him leaning towards an Eb.
besides a lenghty and pointless story, telling you someone's opinion beside my own, the whole point is that its hard to tell. i dont know what flutes he has played beside copley, and no one else mentioned, and he gives a strong recomendation on it. so i thought i'd give you another name.
different people like different stuff. i dont have the money, so it doesnt matter what i like. i plan on trying a mcgee out and a copley, and i plan on maybe trying out seery and m&e, and then in a couple years after buying my 2 concertinas i will look into it.
all the names wormdiet mentioned are great, but thats the trouble. they're all great, and what do you pick? my uncle, for one, sometimes choses instruments over other ones because of their response over their tone (he plays aluminum burkes over brass even though he likes the brass sound better), whereas i am a tone-fiend. i like my embochoures to create good sound (even if it would take me years to learn on a new instrument as long as it had a good end result), whereas your friend might want to just play now. maybe they want polymer, maybe they want wood. maybe they want to be easier in tune, or maybe they want the harmonics. maybe they want big holes, maybe they want smaller.
sorry to make things more complicated (and add a new name to the list of makers), but i think wormdiet is right. that there are so many variables. however, the converse is true. all the flutes he mentioned are quality, and any flutist (myself included) would be more than lucky to receive any of them.
i think wormdiet's first point is the most important. if they know you're getting it, ask what they want. if they dont care, then you can decide if you want a less expensive polymer (for ruggedness) or if they want a more expensive flute, and whether or not they want to chose the maker, or that they just want to go on the most recommended one.
and yes, to restate again, your friend needs a whistle if they dont have one.
# Posted on November 20th 2005 by daiv
Re: buying a flute
On the McGee - the model Larsen carries is a bit different from most Irish flutes.
The two "ur" flute styles in the Irish world are "Pratten" and "Rudall" styles. I won't comment on what that means (There's another recent thread on that topic that will point you to better info than I could provide), except to say that the Larsen model McGee is something of a different animal. Specifically, it's got smaller toneholes and a smaller bore than other styles. The advantage to this is that it is very responsive, crisp, and quick, and can have a good complex tone. A disadvantage is that they can seem quieter than other types of flute, which will matter if playing with other instruments. It might actually be a great flute for a crossover silver player.
# Posted on November 20th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: buying a flute
you guys are great - thanks a lot
# Posted on November 20th 2005 by finster16
Re: buying a flute
id go for sam murray flute.they are reasonably priced and are one of the best flutes you can buy.value for money.
they are a lot cheaper than than the other top makers.
# Posted on November 20th 2005 by fused
Re: buying a flute
Mark Hoza also makes inexpensive wooden flutes. Look at his website: http://www.woodenflutemaker.com
# Posted on November 20th 2005 by slainte
Re: buying a flute
I have a Dave Copley flute - price falls nicely below the very high profile makers (keyless blackwood currently $865) and none other than Mick McGoldrick commented favourably on the tone of it at a workshop. I love it, and have used it in my transition from classical flute over the past year. His waiting time is currently only 6 weeks, and second hand ones crop up very ocassionally (I got mine for $750 - like most good wooden flutes they hold their value well). The website also says he's going to be doing a version without a tuning slide for $480, but I suspect most people here would advise you to go for the tuning slide if there's any possibility of the recipient ever wanting to play in a session.
I've also heard good things about Sam Murray's flutes, and I got to play and Eamon Cotter flute briefly the other weekend and it felt and sounded pretty good, but not good enough to tempt me away from my Copley!
Have fun with this decision - let us know what you plump for and how your friend gets on with it
# Posted on November 20th 2005 by NeilC
Re: buying a flute
I second Sam Murray as being a very good flute but could take quite a while. However not as long as other flutes such as Patrick Olwell has been known to take anything over 7 years!!
How long are you wanting to wait?
Let us know how you're getting on. Whatever you do, check with a flute player before paying a lot of money for a flute!
R
# Posted on November 20th 2005 by Rosh
Re: buying a flute
I think the long wait for (some) Olwells stems from the fact that he apparently hates making keys. . . but the waits on keyless flutes are a lot more reasonable.
But a Wilkes.. .those really do take forever!
# Posted on November 20th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: buying a flute
FWIW - You really don't need a tuning slide to play in a session. Most slideless flutes have tenons long enough to tune, and baroque flutes never had tuning slides yet they can play in ensembles, etc.
I play a 4 key Ralph Sweet flute that doesn't have a tuning slide, and I can tune sharp enough to play in tune even in a cold room.
Eric
# Posted on November 21st 2005 by Jayhawk
Re: buying a flute
wormdiet - thats why i said idea of the manufacture and tonehole, so they could look into a pratten or a rudall and rose mcgee if they liked what they saw in the glp, but i guess i forgot that they wouldnt know it was a smaller holed, quieter flute. thansk for pointing it out.
and how long does a keyless olwell take? i've never been able to get a good answer. and how much deposit does he require? if i have the money i'm already waiting 3 years for a concertina so if its about that long i might get on his wait list next year so that i can have a reprieve between purchases. i know the the keyed ones can take 7 or 8 years.
# Posted on November 21st 2005 by daiv
Re: buying a flute
Here's a good place to start doing research:
www.firescribble.net/flute
# Posted on November 21st 2005 by Tintin
Re: buying a flute
daiv--Last I heard, the wait for a keyless Olwell was 16-18 months.
finster16--If you want to receive the flute by Christmas, this really whittles down the possibilities (not necessarily a bad thing, given the variety of choices).
I play, and very much like, a Copley flute.
Another great maker with a short waiting list is Martin Doyle. Check the link above for contact info.
While a tuning slide isn't a life or death decision, get one if you can.
# Posted on November 21st 2005 by Tintin
Re: buying a flute
Unfortunately you could wait a VERY long time for one of Sam's flutes. Sam is now located in Galway at the Old Forge and his contact number is +35391532848 if you want to try him.
The quality of the workmanship is outstanding and many top notch players use his instruments.
Good luck!
# Posted on November 22nd 2005 by breandan