hi everyone,
i need some advice and help from you(because most of you are muscians i guess)...
i'm a flute player...or at least , i'm supposed to play the flute(i've been playing for 7 years)...but, for several months, i've been unable, "mentally" unable to play in front of somebody...i mean i have a visceral fear of playing in front of people. It's really weird and, above all, annoying. I'm getting frustrated, and so are the musicians i was playing with.
Tomorrow night, i'm supposed to go and play at a session...it's a kind of a challenge...but the more i think about tomorrow, the more frightened i get, and i think i won't go to that session, and it makes me more frightened 'cause it seems that i'll never manage to play with somebody again. (oops, i can feel tears coming to my eyes). it's very complicated, you know "i want to, but I don't want to", mixed-feelings and all that stuff...
Have you ever felt such a thing? how do you cope with it?
i'm looking forward your answers,
Lucie
If it helps I can tell you that I have been walking into sessions for over 30 years, just sitting down and playing, without so much as a by your leave. And I have a bodhran. Can you imagine the shame in that? That bit is to cheer you up.
If the thought that you are always better off than someone else doesn't help, relax. that's right, relax.
A session is not a musical test, it should be fun. Lots of people suffer from stage fright, including so called super stars, and there is no hard and fast rule about how to overcome it.
A session should be enjoyed. Look around at most of the people in the pub and realise that you have a talent which they do not, you can play better than them. If it helps, realise that many of them are not really listening, and would not be technical experts anyway.
If you go to a private session, then the other musicians should know you, and just let you do your own thing. It is a kind of "mental illness", fear of whatever, and the only way to really overcome it is to think positive, realise that there are no dire consequences, and just get up with a "F### 'em" attitude and play.
You are already a better flute player than most of the world, because we poor unfortunates cannot play, and rely on listening to people like yourself for our enjoyment.
Just try not to let it bother you. Who says you have to play in front of people anyway? Playing music is supposed to be fun for yourself, so just play for yourself.
Sit in a room on your own and simply play for yourself.
And this is good advice for anyone. I'm sick of all these people who play for adulation and recognition. There was a thread earlier where a few people were saying that they'd hate to play the fiddle, 'cause there are already loads of fiddle players. This really bugs me. If you play for yourself, such thoughts should not clutter your motivation.
That man Bodhran Bliss snuck in before me there. Don't listen to him, he's an idiot. His idea of motivation is to look for people who are worse than you, this is nasty and divisive. I think it is he who has the "mental illness" of arrogance in wanting to stand up to people with the attitude of "F### 'em".
I've thought a lot about this issue actually on account of that I suffer from stage fright. (playing in front of anyone) When you're learning the music the signals between your head and your fingers goes through a lot of checkpoints at first. Gradually they start waving you through as they become familiar with you. When you play for yourself nearly all the checkpoints are waving you through and it's effortless to play. The minute anyone walks in the room or you're in front of anyone the signal goes out and puts all the checkpoints on high alert. Suddenly the signals between your head and fingers are all bogged down again painstakingly going through each checkpoint. The trick is to keep the high alert from going out to the checkpoints. Some people do it with alcohol, and others seem to be able to give all the people manning the checkpoints the day off. Personally, I just try telling them all to just chill and forget about the high alert.
Hi Lucie,
Great advice from the others. Don't let anything take away from you the gift you were given; music! go and play at the session. Afterall, sessions are for us musicians. A time to have a lot of fun. A time to recharge and share some laughs with our friends. A time to renew ourselves.......... so go, play and leave there a new person!
whistledon
Hi Lucie-
I stopped playing music when I was about 20 years old for the same reason: stage fright made me absolutely unable to function. I loved music, and it was very frustrating to not be able to play. I didn't start again for over 20 years.
When I decided that I wanted to play with people again, I was very fortunate to find a supportive group that allowed unlimited lurking. I think that was the key. I finally got it through my thick skull that it wasn't about how I sounded, or me, or whatever; it was about enjoying the musical interaction with a bunch of nice people. Maybe that comes with living a certain number of years, but I really don't think so--plenty of folks a lot younger than me have figured it out.
Hang in there, dearie, and just work through it for a while. Whatever you do, don't listen to the "you are not worthy' voice in your head. And don't stop playing, even if you just play for your own pleasure for a while.
I suspect you must play pretty well, given the time you've put into your insrtument and your broader background in music. I definitely share your performance anxiety, even in the friendliest session.
One practical suggestion might be to go to a session without your instrument, just enjoy the music and company with no worries. Another small step might be to bring your instrument, but tell yourself ahead of time you're only going to bring it out for the last few tunes of the night. Or, give yourself permission to enjoy listening and sociallizing with your flute in your lap all night; eventually, your desire to play some tunes that come up will overpower your anxieties. Sharing your feelings with your session mates might also help; they're bound to be supportive (and if they're not, you just send 'em over here...).
Yeah, maybe you could just bring your flute, or even a whistle (I always think whistle is a tad less stressful, for no good reason). And just leave it in its case until the urge strikes to play along. DOn;t let anyone bully you into starting a set if you feel uncomfortable. Do give yerself permission to noodle, or lurk, or whatever. MOst of all, have fun, whether you play or not.
One thing I try to do to head off stage fright (And I absolutely love performing but I also suffer from "performance anxiety.") is to play in public parks whenever I can. Or on the front porch.
Sometimes I get nervous, esecially when asked that dreaded question "got a tune Paul?" it never seems to fail that the first time through a tune when I'm leading and playing practcally solo for a few bars that I've completely forgotton the tune. By the time everyone else joins in I've gotten it together well enough but that first time through was a bomb and I stunk really bad. Then I get over it. They keep asking me if I have tune for reason I surmise and then I remind myself that it's just fiddle-dee-dee music and nobody gives a damn whether I blew a couple of notes. The only "practical suggestion" I could make is to tell you to sit a bit away from the circle perhaps at the bar with your flute in your lap, blow a few notes quetly to yourself, see how it feels go on from there, feel inivited because you are!
>>Or, give yourself permission to enjoy listening and sociallizing with your flute in your lap all night; eventually, your desire to play some tunes that come up will overpower your anxieties.<<
That's fantastic advice. Do that! It worked for me at the first session I went to. I went to listen but I wanted to play along so much I had to =P
Lucie
Reading this thread I could have sworn that was me a few years back. I still suffer from stage fright but definitely not to the degree I used to. Years ago I played in a concert with a group (who went on to do quite well in Irish music scene albeit without me!!!-- and who are still doing well!!!) I absolutely froze on the stage and it caused me to put my fiddle down for over 10 years!!-- I took it up again to start teaching and over the last 10 years or so have finally gotten more comfortable in playing on stage and in seisuns!!--
I still would not get up to do a concert by myself in any way, shape or form!, but I having a heck of a lot more fun with it by teaching what I can. It took me a long time to get to where I am and I feel I still have a ways to go but take your time and don't give up because if I could only have persevered I feel I would be so much farther along in my playing and with tunes than I am today!!
Good Luck!!!
Lucie.....Sit and relax in the session and maybe just coax yourself to play ONE tune you know really well. Then give yourself permission to stop for the rest of the night and just listen. If that works out OK, then next time coax yourself to play TWO. And so on....eash session try one more. Maybe after six months it will become a habit to just play and not worry.
TO tell the truth, this is the way I coax myself into cleaning my house. Just one room or one chore. Then if I still feel up for it, one more or two more. I only make myself commit to the first one. It's the only way I will ever get started, LOL! If you do things this way, a session (or cleaning!) is not an overwhelming all or nothing deal. You can just do part, but at least get started. And reward yourself for it somehow.
You can also try the fake it til you make it theory....play one and pretend to yourself you are not afraid. You can even imagine you are one of the more out here and confident players as you close your eyes and play...just pick one, they don't have to be the best, just confident...imagine being in their skin and imagine how they must feel while playing, feel the fearlessness and tell yourself you are both humans, if they can do it so can you.
It sounds like the fear has become a bad habit that feeds on itself, so force the opposite just a little until that becomes habit.
Funny though, I play guitar, both backup and fingetstyle tune playing, and have zero stage fright.... yet if I have to SING in public....well let's say the first time I really had to have a Jack Daniels and half a Xanax, and that's the truth. I am not a real good singer and know it, just passable, but some of our pub gigs wanted some songs. I quickly learned that A)it gets easier the more you do it and B) in a pub not that many people are really listening closely anyway and C) If they are listening they are WAY WAY WAY WAY less judgemental than you are on yourself.
Stick to things you know real well, it's all about fear of making a mistake. The best nusicians make mistakes though, and they often, even in performance, either ignore it or crack a joke about it and move on. Try to have that attitude.
I t helped me a lot when somebody told me that music is spiritual food and a session is kind of a potluck. Go in there with the idea of sharing the feast .... even if all you can bring is a big can of Pork & Beans.
And remember most people are so wrapped up in themselves, they are not paying you any attention anyway.
When I first started playing in sessions, like most other folk, I used to be worried about what people thought of my playing, but believe it or not, what cured me was spending over a year busking in Dublin.
When you spend a few hours every day playing your precious music, while thousands of people walk by, totally ignoring you, you begin to realise just how important your music actually is, in the scheme of things & now it doesn't bother me.
It certainly cured me of this fear that everyone was listening to ME.
I don't know if you have ever tried busking in the street, but perhaps if yourself & a good friend were to try it, it might help.
It sounds a bit scary perhaps, the thought of playing in front of thousands of people, but it is really a lot easier than playing in a session, where other musicians will be listening to you, and much, much easier than playing in a concert, where everyone sits looking & listening.
Busking great therapy cause virtually nobody listens.
Of course that may be the case in Dublin, but perhaps not where you live.
Anyway, I now go into sessions thinking nobody is listening to me, they are all to busy watching & listening to the best players & that way I can relax.
Good Luck to you. I hope you can learn to just enjoy YOUR music & almost ignore your surroundings.
I think the thing that scares most folk at a session is the thought of having to start a tune on their own, or worse still, have to play one on your own.
Now, that's not the deal at all - there is no 'LAW' that says YOU 'HAVE' to start any tunes! That's pure nonsense.
I have played at countless sessions where I have never started a tune the whole night, & trust me, nobody cares. Just let other folk start all the tunes, all night. There are always loads of folk who are eager to start all the sets.
When I know I'm not going to be having to start any tunes, it helps me to relax.
If you have the opportunity to play for church services, do it as often as you can. It gets you up in front of a group of people, and church folk generally are very open, accepting and very appreciative. This really helped me overcome stagefight jitters. And as Ptarmigan says: enjoy your music--when it's obvious that you are enjoying yourself and the music, other people will enjoy it with you.
Wonderful tips and thoughts...it's natural to be nervous, because you want to do well...just remember that those who can't play any instrument are looking at you (and the others) and wish they could play, too.
When I feel nervous at my session, I sit a bit further from the center. Ptarmigan is right- you don't have to start any tunes. Just join in and your confidence will pick up.
I've been playing in public since 1965 and I STILL get nervous. But, now as I look at the people watching me, I know they are here to share the music and the experience. Before long, I'm having a blast. Good luck to you!
THANK YOU everyone for your precious advice...i didn't expect so much!! that's great...
Scjandy, to answer your question, no. I can't play in front of a family member...except, perhaps, my father.
anyway, i feel much better thanks to you...i'll let you know how i get on with that session tonight!!!
If you're interested, you could try a homeopathic stage fright remedy called Arg nit 6. Also very useful is a 50/50 mixture of 2 Bach flower remedies, Walnut and Larch.
You've had loads of good advice there. I just want to sympathise - I'm a flute player with exactly the same problem! I manage the odd few tunes at a session now and again but hate it when I get bullied (however nicely its intended) into starting a tune. I just like to sit there, join in when I can, have fun and not be noticed - but sometimes that's easier said than done! Good luck - do let us know how you get on.
wouh...don't you worry about my age, Jim Troy, i'm now 18, and i'm not afraid of alcohol....2 pints of guiness seems to be a good solution(perhaps the best??)!! oh, i'm not breizh...why do you ask? you live there?? actually i'm norman(almost the same, though)
Thanks for the hug, showaddyditto(what kind of dub is that??lol!), that's exactly what i need right now
by the way, H-6 before the session starts...i'm not getting that nervous...i'm on the good way i think...
I spend about half my concious life either on a stage, by myself, with everyone staring at me expecting me to something entertaining, or out busking. Doesn't bother me much at all and I've coached a few people through paralyzing stage fright. It isn't going to be possible over the internet, but at least I can offer support and advice, for whatever that's worth.
Batlady and Keith give exellent advice. Iris's isn't bad either and Ptarmagin's is spot on, although perhaps a bit too advanced for you right now.
First, pick up the book The Inner Game of Music. Now that you've picked it up, open it and read it. Pay attention.
Ok, you can play a bit in front of your father. That's a start. We have some leverage. Take things slowly and just play a tune or do a few minutes of pure practice, a scale or something, when he's in the room. Don't tell him that's what you're doing. Just do it. He won't be "listening" that way and don't think of him as listening. He just "happens" to be there. Try to do that every day and it will start to get easier.
When you can play one tune with your father in the room go to the park and find a quiet, out of the way bench, where a few people might happen to go by, but there are no crowds. Same deal, just play a tune or a scale, to *yourself*, not other people. The people just happen to be there. Do that everyday until you find you're comfortable with that.
Move to a busier bench and and "play at" a person or two now and again. Make eye contact, but don't make a big deal of it. Just let *yourself* know that you see them and they see you, just for a few seconds.
We're moving up in slow, never too uncomfortable stages to Ptarmagin's suggestion of busking. Lots of busking, when you can handle it, will work wonders for you. I spent a good deal of this weekend standing under the Jumbotron in Times Square playing fiddle and whistle. Perhaps millions of people saw me, but in an impersonal way. I just happened to be there, they just happened to be there . . .and walking by. They don't point and giggle or nothin' . If anything you're likely to feel more alone than in your own living room with your father. Nothing feels more alone than a million people ignoring you utterly. Yet there you are, playing in public .
Every now and again someone will stop for a few seconds, maybe take your picture and you are "on," but only for a few moments at a time. Not long enough to build up a full head of anxieity.
You are afraid. Somewhere in your head there is the idea that something really bad is going to happen if you play in front of people. Well, guess what? It ain't. Even if you screw up horribly *nothing bad will happen,* even if they point and giggle. Nothing blows up. People don't die.
Most of all, it turns out you are not even branded with shame for life. I'm afraid people just don't care about you that much. You want people to care about you. You don't want to lose that caring.
But really, you never had it in the first place. Not in the sense that you could lose it by playing badly at any rate. You just don't have that sort of power over people. Get used to the idea.
So there's nothing really to lose. So there's no sense worryinging about losing what you never really had.
BB's advice is bang on, if overly simplified. Just relax.
It's just that for awhile you're going to have to learn how to relax in easy, baby steps that don't put the wind up your skirt and make you run away. You'll get there if you do that.
The pros call this "Aversion Therapy." Exposing you to what you are afraid of at, but not over, the limits of your tolerance. You can learn to be unfraid of nearly anything that way, because anything can made to be percieved as ordinary, and "ordinary" is what you don't even take any notice of.
lucie,
I know how you feel. The first time I had to give a speech in Public Speaking class in high school, I stood in front of the class for a moment, said "I can't do this," and sat back down. The teacher really had to work with me to get me to perform adequately in that class. And whenever I played an instrument alone, my abilities got all wobbly on me.
But, because my work required it, and because my love of music required it, I kept speaking and playing in public. Today, I can sing and play my guitar solo, I am a lay speaker in my church, and I conduct training classes. Along the way, I found out the fear of performance was far worse than the reality of performance--and once I faced the fear enough, I realized that it wasn't so bad. Nowadays, when I make a mistake, or forget the words in the middle of a song, I just laugh along with my friends, and go along with what I am doing.
The nice thing about a session is that everyone plays together, you don't have to feel like you are alone. You are part of the team, and it is usually a happy team, at that. It is not easy to face your fears, but when you do, you can overcome them. And early on, if they get the best of you momentarily, just take time out for a quick laugh or a deep breath, and jump back in.
Good luck!
When I perform, often in church, and I have an attack of the jitters, I choose one person from the audience/congregation who looks as if they really need the blessing of my music that day, and I play directly to and for them. If I'm jittery ahead of time, I check out the folks as they come in the door and pick my person. Then, when it's time, I play my most heartfelt, beautiful music straight toward their heart and ignore everyone else. This is a great way to enjoy and love the process of playing with minimal performance nerves and give a special gift to someone else at the same time! Doing this in a session is also a possibility, as you can focus on playing your most beautiful flute sounds to touch the hearts of the people with whom you're playing. We all need music to fill us up during these difficult times in the world, and you can uplift your little group as they uplift you in return. Music heals! (I know that may have sounded sappy to some, but it's the reason I play. Of course, applause isn't bad, either...)
I also play in church but no longer get the jitters because, like a heap of other folk, I now realise that nobody is concentrating on ME as an individual. They are only even half listening to the band as a whole because they are all singing.
However, I still freeze when it's just me and somebody walks in the room but I have found that playing in a semi-taught situation (i.e. a closed session an experienced musician leads members of the great unwashed) is helping.
As for Chutzpah... isn't that like Oompah but played on the off beat?
I can get horrible performance anxiety at a session when I start a tune and end up playing it more or less solo if no other melody players know it. Tunes turn into train wrecks under those circumstances. I find I do better if I stare at the chanter and block out the presence of the other people in the pub. Doesn't always work, but helps. Also, once I get into the habit of soloing a tune in public, I find it that much easier to play it again solo during the next session. But the first time I play any tune alone in a pub usually doesn't end that well.
Some good advice here already, but I’ll add some more personal experience. I have a benign tremor condition inherited from my father. As a young man, he tried to deal with it by self-medicating with alcohol when he needed to engage in business (it does actually help with the tremors) and within a few years was badly addicted. Now, I like my pint as much as the next stooge, but I think it’s a bad idea to start depending on it to get you through tough spots. That’s been the path to addiction for lots of people.
Of course, non-medicinal solutions are best, so give them a good try. But failing there, lots of performers use the occasional very small dose of Inderal (propranolol) to help control performance anxiety. It’s been shown in good studies to decrease the effects of perf anx without significant side effects. I use it occasionally to control the tremors and have never had any problems with it.
But, again, this kind of thing should be a last resort. I’ve always found that the more often I play for people (whether one person or a big audience), the less nervous I am about it. So I say take every opportunity to play for very small, unthreatening audiences – like one or two friends. It’ll build up your confidence.
Maybe you could take little steps and build up to it.
I can join in at sessions OK but after 7 years playing fiddle I still won't start a tune. I tell myself that I will when I'm ready and try not to let it spoil enjoying a session. Its also a bit that a lot of the tunes I know from my teacher , the people at the session don't know, yet I've learned their tunes. I'm not complaining here - its just a difficult situation for me.
I've a similar thing with singing. I love to sing, have had lessons and am told I'm a decent singer but the heart just pounds so much when I try to sing when anyone is there (except the kids). I'm building up to it by joining in with chorus' and have set myself a moveable target of singing solo by the end of the year.
Good luck with it and enjoy yourself. Its not about being perfect ( this is what I try to tell myself too!)
hi lucie. i think you may have had just about all the advice possible, but i'd like to share my own experience with you. i'm 18, dont really drink alcohol, and therefore dont go into pubs much. when i walked into the porterhouse for my first session i felt really self-concious. in fact, i'd got lost on the way there, so i was already feeling a bit daft. playing in front of other people has never bothered me, but i understand your nervousness. thankfully, all the people i met that night were really friendly. i think if the other people at the session are welcoming, you will feel instantly relaxed. its definately worth getting over this fear, 'cos sessions are great. i've only been to 3, but i'm hooked now! x (i try to play flute too)
"i think if the other people at the session are welcoming, you will feel instantly relaxed."
I think you have missed the point that she is now afraid to play with/in front of other people she has previously been perfectly comfortable playing with/in front of for years.
This is a different problem than you one you posit a solution for, and, unfortunately, not at all an uncommon one.
Bob himself made a good point. Alcohol is great for a bit, but it's best not to rely on it. Propanolol is non-addicting, as is atenolol. Both are beta-blockers, and help dampen the fight-or-flight response that causes much nervousness.
If all else fails, it never hurts to seek professional help. A good scientifically-oriented psychologist with training in hyponsis can do wonders. There's no need to suffer, and no shame in seeking help.
Ptarmigan made a good point.I cured my stage fright by busking.It's true that in a session most of the punters are not listening anyway and the ones that are will forgive you almost anything.
i 've got back home!
i'm still alive
now, let me tell you the story....
9.00pm=time to leave home. I can feel butterflies flying in my stomach, but i try hard to keep in mind what you told me: "people don't care", "you're not forced to play", "try to play just one tune" and so on so forth...And, wooh, 9.25pm, i'm already in front of the pub, where i meet the other musicians. We start joking, i relax, it's gonna be okay...
Then, here we are, we're IN the pub, with people in it...my oh my...i sit next to the window, put my flute on my knees(which is a good beginning), play a few notes(my sound is awful), and then we start....and i'm shaking terribly...
And that was the strangest session i've ever played in. It was very...quiet. First, the "leader" wasn't there.(by "leader", i mean, The Professional fiddler, The One who plays best, The One who knows around 3,000 tunes..), the guitar player wasn't there either. Yet, there were about 10 fiddles, 2 bodhrans, and, 2 fluters(me included!!). Why was it strange? Because, nobody knew the tunes each of us was playing. Therefore, you almost had to play a set of reels alone. AAAAAAARGH!!!! BUT, i realized that i didn't even care. The people in the pub were there drinking their beer, not even listenning to the music...so, ok, Lucie, let's go, be brave, you want to play, go then!! and I did it!!!!!! first, i played a reel(Skylark), and i tried to play another one after it(john carty's), but it didn't work out., since nobody knew those tunes! but anyway, i didn't care. I managed to play the first one very well(i think everyone was astonished to hear me playing...!)...Then, i felt good(i was a bit drunk, i think...), so i played a hornpipe, which nobody knew of course, but it was very well played too...i tried a third tune, a set of jigs, very famous ones, The Kilmovee Jig, and The Maids in the kitchen...guess what! nobody knew!!! therefore, i had great difficulities to play it...because of course, my fingers were shaking, my blow was hard, and there was nobody able to play with me...but anyway, i didn't care!!!
It was a good RE-start, i think. What I want to do next week, is to play the tunes i played yesterday night, to play them very well, to manage to play the set entirely, properly, as i used to play a few months ago. I want to get again the habit to play. I want it to be natural. I realized yesterday that was capable to play, so...eh oh let's go!
wanna add something.
i want you to know how PROUD of myself i am. Because, what i really needed, i think, is someone to tell me "you play well and keep on playing because it worths it". i needed encouragement, see what i mean? and that's exactly what happened yesterday actually. i hadn't played at that session for such a longtime, that the other musicians were extremely pleased to hear me playing...they told me i played very well, the other fluter even told me i should teach the flute(??!!)...
it really was a weird session, but it wasn't beacuse of me and that was great anyway.
well, if you want to plan a trip to France, go to Caen, Normandy(instead of Brettony, lol!), and ask for the pub La Garsouille. I'll be glad to meet you all there! (and play with and in front of you!wouh, what an achievement!)...don't forget your fiddles, i think 10 isn't enough...
And thank you for keeping me a seat in your sessions, i'm honored!
see you soon then!( i'll come when i have money to pay for the plane ticket, or boat tichet, which means not that soon actually...)
For the cd, i'm thinking of it, perhaps a tour all around the world as well...i should ask my manager...perhaps i'll replace JM Veillon in his flute training courses...what a career i've just carved out!!
of course, i'm kidding, ahah. I'm still afraid of playing in front of somebody...Stage fright(or People fright, as i read in the article on www.guitarnoise.com) does not disappear by magic(too easy)...but at least, i think it won't keep away from playing anymore. No way i get petrified again when i have to play!
Lucie, sounds like you're making progress with it, congrats!
I just returned from Zoukfest in New Mexico. It was a wonderful week-long camp, with some fantastic instructors, including John Carty, Roger Landes, Randal Bays, Luke Plumb, Matt & Shannon Heaton, etc.
One of the classes (which I didn't take) was taught by a guy named Don Richmond. The class was titled "Getting Your Music Past The Fear", which is also the title of his new book. (http://www.donrichmond.com/gymptf1.html)
The class looked fascinating. From what I understand, they basically just worked on playing music in front of each other, and discussed what their feelings were when doing that. And then did things like recorded and videotaped the playing and explored what kind of nervousness that brought on. I didn't get a chance to talk to anyone who had taken the class, but it really sounded neat, because you got a chance to really try to explore, accept, and ultimately ignore the nervousness aspects of playing in front of others.
I'm thinking of ordering his book because it looks interesting. I don't normally have much "stage fright", but I did find that I had a hard time starting tunes when asked in sessions at the festival in front of the likes of John Carty (my new hero, btw).
une vielle à roue!!! TROP BIEN!!!! that would be fun! you play irish music with it? because, generally, une vielle à roue(how dyou call it in English??)is used in breton music, or norman music, in "fest-noz", etc... but I'd be pleased to hear you!...
OK, now that everybody's helped Lucie, can we please start talking about ME!
I'm so nervous that I get too shakey to play the bodhran but then I freeze up so that I'm not shakey enough to play the shakey eggs? What should I do?
HELP, please..help
HELP, please..help
hi everyone,
i need some advice and help from you(because most of you are muscians i guess)...
i'm a flute player...or at least , i'm supposed to play the flute(i've been playing for 7 years)...but, for several months, i've been unable, "mentally" unable to play in front of somebody...i mean i have a visceral fear of playing in front of people. It's really weird and, above all, annoying. I'm getting frustrated, and so are the musicians i was playing with.
Tomorrow night, i'm supposed to go and play at a session...it's a kind of a challenge...but the more i think about tomorrow, the more frightened i get, and i think i won't go to that session, and it makes me more frightened 'cause it seems that i'll never manage to play with somebody again. (oops, i can feel tears coming to my eyes). it's very complicated, you know "i want to, but I don't want to", mixed-feelings and all that stuff...
Have you ever felt such a thing? how do you cope with it?
i'm looking forward your answers,
Lucie
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by lucie
Re: HELP, please..help
If it helps I can tell you that I have been walking into sessions for over 30 years, just sitting down and playing, without so much as a by your leave. And I have a bodhran. Can you imagine the shame in that? That bit is to cheer you up.
If the thought that you are always better off than someone else doesn't help, relax. that's right, relax.
A session is not a musical test, it should be fun. Lots of people suffer from stage fright, including so called super stars, and there is no hard and fast rule about how to overcome it.
A session should be enjoyed. Look around at most of the people in the pub and realise that you have a talent which they do not, you can play better than them. If it helps, realise that many of them are not really listening, and would not be technical experts anyway.
If you go to a private session, then the other musicians should know you, and just let you do your own thing. It is a kind of "mental illness", fear of whatever, and the only way to really overcome it is to think positive, realise that there are no dire consequences, and just get up with a "F### 'em" attitude and play.
You are already a better flute player than most of the world, because we poor unfortunates cannot play, and rely on listening to people like yourself for our enjoyment.
Do it for us.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: HELP, please..help
Hi lucie
Just try not to let it bother you. Who says you have to play in front of people anyway? Playing music is supposed to be fun for yourself, so just play for yourself.
Sit in a room on your own and simply play for yourself.
And this is good advice for anyone. I'm sick of all these people who play for adulation and recognition. There was a thread earlier where a few people were saying that they'd hate to play the fiddle, 'cause there are already loads of fiddle players. This really bugs me. If you play for yourself, such thoughts should not clutter your motivation.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: HELP, please..help
That man Bodhran Bliss snuck in before me there. Don't listen to him, he's an idiot. His idea of motivation is to look for people who are worse than you, this is nasty and divisive. I think it is he who has the "mental illness" of arrogance in wanting to stand up to people with the attitude of "F### 'em".
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: HELP, please..help
Hi Lucie
I've thought a lot about this issue actually on account of that I suffer from stage fright. (playing in front of anyone) When you're learning the music the signals between your head and your fingers goes through a lot of checkpoints at first. Gradually they start waving you through as they become familiar with you. When you play for yourself nearly all the checkpoints are waving you through and it's effortless to play. The minute anyone walks in the room or you're in front of anyone the signal goes out and puts all the checkpoints on high alert. Suddenly the signals between your head and fingers are all bogged down again painstakingly going through each checkpoint. The trick is to keep the high alert from going out to the checkpoints. Some people do it with alcohol, and others seem to be able to give all the people manning the checkpoints the day off. Personally, I just try telling them all to just chill and forget about the high alert.
I hope this helps.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: HELP, please..help
Hi Lucie,
Great advice from the others. Don't let anything take away from you the gift you were given; music! go and play at the session. Afterall, sessions are for us musicians. A time to have a lot of fun. A time to recharge and share some laughs with our friends. A time to renew ourselves.......... so go, play and leave there a new person!
whistledon
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by westcoastfluter
Re: HELP, please..help
Hi Lucie-
I stopped playing music when I was about 20 years old for the same reason: stage fright made me absolutely unable to function. I loved music, and it was very frustrating to not be able to play. I didn't start again for over 20 years.
When I decided that I wanted to play with people again, I was very fortunate to find a supportive group that allowed unlimited lurking. I think that was the key. I finally got it through my thick skull that it wasn't about how I sounded, or me, or whatever; it was about enjoying the musical interaction with a bunch of nice people. Maybe that comes with living a certain number of years, but I really don't think so--plenty of folks a lot younger than me have figured it out.
Hang in there, dearie, and just work through it for a while. Whatever you do, don't listen to the "you are not worthy' voice in your head. And don't stop playing, even if you just play for your own pleasure for a while.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Batlady
Re: HELP, please..help
Hi Lucie,
I suspect you must play pretty well, given the time you've put into your insrtument and your broader background in music. I definitely share your performance anxiety, even in the friendliest session.
One practical suggestion might be to go to a session without your instrument, just enjoy the music and company with no worries. Another small step might be to bring your instrument, but tell yourself ahead of time you're only going to bring it out for the last few tunes of the night. Or, give yourself permission to enjoy listening and sociallizing with your flute in your lap all night; eventually, your desire to play some tunes that come up will overpower your anxieties. Sharing your feelings with your session mates might also help; they're bound to be supportive (and if they're not, you just send 'em over here...).
Good luck!
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: HELP, please..help
Lucie, please let me apologise for Mr Gill. The rest of us realise that this is a serious issue, and cannot be solved by solitary confinement..
Just play. Soon you won't even notice other people. And enjoy yourself.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: HELP, please..help
Yeah, maybe you could just bring your flute, or even a whistle (I always think whistle is a tad less stressful, for no good reason). And just leave it in its case until the urge strikes to play along. DOn;t let anyone bully you into starting a set if you feel uncomfortable. Do give yerself permission to noodle, or lurk, or whatever. MOst of all, have fun, whether you play or not.
One thing I try to do to head off stage fright (And I absolutely love performing but I also suffer from "performance anxiety.") is to play in public parks whenever I can. Or on the front porch.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: HELP, please..help
Lucie
Sometimes I get nervous, esecially when asked that dreaded question "got a tune Paul?" it never seems to fail that the first time through a tune when I'm leading and playing practcally solo for a few bars that I've completely forgotton the tune. By the time everyone else joins in I've gotten it together well enough but that first time through was a bomb and I stunk really bad. Then I get over it. They keep asking me if I have tune for reason I surmise and then I remind myself that it's just fiddle-dee-dee music and nobody gives a damn whether I blew a couple of notes. The only "practical suggestion" I could make is to tell you to sit a bit away from the circle perhaps at the bar with your flute in your lap, blow a few notes quetly to yourself, see how it feels go on from there, feel inivited because you are!
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Chef Paul
Re: HELP, please..help
>>Or, give yourself permission to enjoy listening and sociallizing with your flute in your lap all night; eventually, your desire to play some tunes that come up will overpower your anxieties.<<
That's fantastic advice. Do that! It worked for me at the first session I went to. I went to listen but I wanted to play along so much I had to =P
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by kaytee83
Re: HELP, please..help
Lucie
Reading this thread I could have sworn that was me a few years back. I still suffer from stage fright but definitely not to the degree I used to. Years ago I played in a concert with a group (who went on to do quite well in Irish music scene albeit without me!!!-- and who are still doing well!!!) I absolutely froze on the stage and it caused me to put my fiddle down for over 10 years!!-- I took it up again to start teaching and over the last 10 years or so have finally gotten more comfortable in playing on stage and in seisuns!!--
I still would not get up to do a concert by myself in any way, shape or form!, but I having a heck of a lot more fun with it by teaching what I can. It took me a long time to get to where I am and I feel I still have a ways to go but take your time and don't give up because if I could only have persevered I feel I would be so much farther along in my playing and with tunes than I am today!!
Good Luck!!!
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by fiddlefamily
Re: HELP, please..help
Lucie.....Sit and relax in the session and maybe just coax yourself to play ONE tune you know really well. Then give yourself permission to stop for the rest of the night and just listen. If that works out OK, then next time coax yourself to play TWO. And so on....eash session try one more. Maybe after six months it will become a habit to just play and not worry.
TO tell the truth, this is the way I coax myself into cleaning my house. Just one room or one chore. Then if I still feel up for it, one more or two more. I only make myself commit to the first one. It's the only way I will ever get started, LOL! If you do things this way, a session (or cleaning!) is not an overwhelming all or nothing deal. You can just do part, but at least get started. And reward yourself for it somehow.
You can also try the fake it til you make it theory....play one and pretend to yourself you are not afraid. You can even imagine you are one of the more out here and confident players as you close your eyes and play...just pick one, they don't have to be the best, just confident...imagine being in their skin and imagine how they must feel while playing, feel the fearlessness and tell yourself you are both humans, if they can do it so can you.
It sounds like the fear has become a bad habit that feeds on itself, so force the opposite just a little until that becomes habit.
Funny though, I play guitar, both backup and fingetstyle tune playing, and have zero stage fright.... yet if I have to SING in public....well let's say the first time I really had to have a Jack Daniels and half a Xanax, and that's the truth. I am not a real good singer and know it, just passable, but some of our pub gigs wanted some songs. I quickly learned that A)it gets easier the more you do it and B) in a pub not that many people are really listening closely anyway and C) If they are listening they are WAY WAY WAY WAY less judgemental than you are on yourself.
Stick to things you know real well, it's all about fear of making a mistake. The best nusicians make mistakes though, and they often, even in performance, either ignore it or crack a joke about it and move on. Try to have that attitude.
good luck!
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by irisnevins
Re: HELP, please..help
I t helped me a lot when somebody told me that music is spiritual food and a session is kind of a potluck. Go in there with the idea of sharing the feast .... even if all you can bring is a big can of Pork & Beans.
And remember most people are so wrapped up in themselves, they are not paying you any attention anyway.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Owell Mabee
Re: HELP, please..help
When I first started playing in sessions, like most other folk, I used to be worried about what people thought of my playing, but believe it or not, what cured me was spending over a year busking in Dublin.
When you spend a few hours every day playing your precious music, while thousands of people walk by, totally ignoring you, you begin to realise just how important your music actually is, in the scheme of things & now it doesn't bother me.
It certainly cured me of this fear that everyone was listening to ME.
I don't know if you have ever tried busking in the street, but perhaps if yourself & a good friend were to try it, it might help.
It sounds a bit scary perhaps, the thought of playing in front of thousands of people, but it is really a lot easier than playing in a session, where other musicians will be listening to you, and much, much easier than playing in a concert, where everyone sits looking & listening.
Busking great therapy cause virtually nobody listens.
Of course that may be the case in Dublin, but perhaps not where you live.
Anyway, I now go into sessions thinking nobody is listening to me, they are all to busy watching & listening to the best players & that way I can relax.
Good Luck to you. I hope you can learn to just enjoy YOUR music & almost ignore your surroundings.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: HELP, please..help
Oh & one more thought:
I think the thing that scares most folk at a session is the thought of having to start a tune on their own, or worse still, have to play one on your own.
Now, that's not the deal at all - there is no 'LAW' that says YOU 'HAVE' to start any tunes! That's pure nonsense.
I have played at countless sessions where I have never started a tune the whole night, & trust me, nobody cares. Just let other folk start all the tunes, all night. There are always loads of folk who are eager to start all the sets.
When I know I'm not going to be having to start any tunes, it helps me to relax.
Please let us know how you get on.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: HELP, please..help
If you have the opportunity to play for church services, do it as often as you can. It gets you up in front of a group of people, and church folk generally are very open, accepting and very appreciative. This really helped me overcome stagefight jitters. And as Ptarmigan says: enjoy your music--when it's obvious that you are enjoying yourself and the music, other people will enjoy it with you.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by dmarie
Re: HELP, please..help
Wonderful tips and thoughts...it's natural to be nervous, because you want to do well...just remember that those who can't play any instrument are looking at you (and the others) and wish they could play, too.
When I feel nervous at my session, I sit a bit further from the center. Ptarmigan is right- you don't have to start any tunes. Just join in and your confidence will pick up.
I've been playing in public since 1965 and I STILL get nervous. But, now as I look at the people watching me, I know they are here to share the music and the experience. Before long, I'm having a blast. Good luck to you!
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: HELP, please..help
Lucie, can you play in front of a family member or friend?
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by scjandy
Re: HELP, please..help
THANK YOU everyone for your precious advice...i didn't expect so much!! that's great...
Scjandy, to answer your question, no. I can't play in front of a family member...except, perhaps, my father.
anyway, i feel much better thanks to you...i'll let you know how i get on with that session tonight!!!
see you, lucie
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by lucie
Re: HELP, please..help
There's always the old trick of imagining they are all sat there in there underwear!
Hope you're able to overcome this problem soon Lucie.
Seeing I'm old enough to be your dad, and mostly harmless, I hope you won't take it amiss if I send you a hug.
Hug.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: HELP, please..help
If you're interested, you could try a homeopathic stage fright remedy called Arg nit 6. Also very useful is a 50/50 mixture of 2 Bach flower remedies, Walnut and Larch.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by maxF
Re: HELP, please..help
It wouldn’t have been so inappropriate if you weren’t in your underwear showdaddy !
Check this link, I found it useful. http://www.guitarnoise.com/article.php?id=252
And an earlier discussion on stage fright
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/4131/comments#comment84403
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by BegF
Re: HELP, please..help
You've had loads of good advice there. I just want to sympathise - I'm a flute player with exactly the same problem! I manage the odd few tunes at a session now and again but hate it when I get bullied (however nicely its intended) into starting a tune. I just like to sit there, join in when I can, have fun and not be noticed - but sometimes that's easier said than done! Good luck - do let us know how you get on.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Biddy
Re: HELP, please..help
wouh...don't you worry about my age, Jim Troy, i'm now 18, and i'm not afraid of alcohol....2 pints of guiness seems to be a good solution(perhaps the best??)!! oh, i'm not breizh...why do you ask? you live there?? actually i'm norman(almost the same, though)
Thanks for the hug, showaddyditto(what kind of dub is that??lol!), that's exactly what i need right now
by the way, H-6 before the session starts...i'm not getting that nervous...i'm on the good way i think...
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by lucie
Re: HELP, please..help
I spend about half my concious life either on a stage, by myself, with everyone staring at me expecting me to something entertaining, or out busking. Doesn't bother me much at all and I've coached a few people through paralyzing stage fright. It isn't going to be possible over the internet, but at least I can offer support and advice, for whatever that's worth.
Batlady and Keith give exellent advice. Iris's isn't bad either and Ptarmagin's is spot on, although perhaps a bit too advanced for you right now.
First, pick up the book The Inner Game of Music. Now that you've picked it up, open it and read it. Pay attention.
Ok, you can play a bit in front of your father. That's a start. We have some leverage. Take things slowly and just play a tune or do a few minutes of pure practice, a scale or something, when he's in the room. Don't tell him that's what you're doing. Just do it. He won't be "listening" that way and don't think of him as listening. He just "happens" to be there. Try to do that every day and it will start to get easier.
When you can play one tune with your father in the room go to the park and find a quiet, out of the way bench, where a few people might happen to go by, but there are no crowds. Same deal, just play a tune or a scale, to *yourself*, not other people. The people just happen to be there. Do that everyday until you find you're comfortable with that.
Move to a busier bench and and "play at" a person or two now and again. Make eye contact, but don't make a big deal of it. Just let *yourself* know that you see them and they see you, just for a few seconds.
We're moving up in slow, never too uncomfortable stages to Ptarmagin's suggestion of busking. Lots of busking, when you can handle it, will work wonders for you. I spent a good deal of this weekend standing under the Jumbotron in Times Square playing fiddle and whistle. Perhaps millions of people saw me, but in an impersonal way. I just happened to be there, they just happened to be there . . .and walking by. They don't point and giggle or nothin' . If anything you're likely to feel more alone than in your own living room with your father. Nothing feels more alone than a million people ignoring you utterly. Yet there you are, playing in public .
Every now and again someone will stop for a few seconds, maybe take your picture and you are "on," but only for a few moments at a time. Not long enough to build up a full head of anxieity.
You are afraid. Somewhere in your head there is the idea that something really bad is going to happen if you play in front of people. Well, guess what? It ain't. Even if you screw up horribly *nothing bad will happen,* even if they point and giggle. Nothing blows up. People don't die.
Most of all, it turns out you are not even branded with shame for life. I'm afraid people just don't care about you that much. You want people to care about you. You don't want to lose that caring.
But really, you never had it in the first place. Not in the sense that you could lose it by playing badly at any rate. You just don't have that sort of power over people. Get used to the idea.
So there's nothing really to lose. So there's no sense worryinging about losing what you never really had.
BB's advice is bang on, if overly simplified. Just relax.
It's just that for awhile you're going to have to learn how to relax in easy, baby steps that don't put the wind up your skirt and make you run away. You'll get there if you do that.
The pros call this "Aversion Therapy." Exposing you to what you are afraid of at, but not over, the limits of your tolerance. You can learn to be unfraid of nearly anything that way, because anything can made to be percieved as ordinary, and "ordinary" is what you don't even take any notice of.
KFG
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by KFG
Re: HELP, please..help
lucie,
I know how you feel. The first time I had to give a speech in Public Speaking class in high school, I stood in front of the class for a moment, said "I can't do this," and sat back down. The teacher really had to work with me to get me to perform adequately in that class. And whenever I played an instrument alone, my abilities got all wobbly on me.
But, because my work required it, and because my love of music required it, I kept speaking and playing in public. Today, I can sing and play my guitar solo, I am a lay speaker in my church, and I conduct training classes. Along the way, I found out the fear of performance was far worse than the reality of performance--and once I faced the fear enough, I realized that it wasn't so bad. Nowadays, when I make a mistake, or forget the words in the middle of a song, I just laugh along with my friends, and go along with what I am doing.
The nice thing about a session is that everyone plays together, you don't have to feel like you are alone. You are part of the team, and it is usually a happy team, at that. It is not easy to face your fears, but when you do, you can overcome them. And early on, if they get the best of you momentarily, just take time out for a quick laugh or a deep breath, and jump back in.
Good luck!
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: HELP, please..help
Lucie
What you need is Chutzpah.
Goodness only knows where you get it from though.
I believe it is made out of tomatoes, (although some people use mangoes).
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: HELP, please..help
When I perform, often in church, and I have an attack of the jitters, I choose one person from the audience/congregation who looks as if they really need the blessing of my music that day, and I play directly to and for them. If I'm jittery ahead of time, I check out the folks as they come in the door and pick my person. Then, when it's time, I play my most heartfelt, beautiful music straight toward their heart and ignore everyone else. This is a great way to enjoy and love the process of playing with minimal performance nerves and give a special gift to someone else at the same time! Doing this in a session is also a possibility, as you can focus on playing your most beautiful flute sounds to touch the hearts of the people with whom you're playing. We all need music to fill us up during these difficult times in the world, and you can uplift your little group as they uplift you in return. Music heals! (I know that may have sounded sappy to some, but it's the reason I play. Of course, applause isn't bad, either...)
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by thier1754
Re: HELP, please..help
"Goodness only knows where you get it from though."
Kosher deli, but what she really needs right now is something rather different:
Indifference.
KFG
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by KFG
Re: HELP, please..help
I also play in church but no longer get the jitters because, like a heap of other folk, I now realise that nobody is concentrating on ME as an individual. They are only even half listening to the band as a whole because they are all singing.
However, I still freeze when it's just me and somebody walks in the room but I have found that playing in a semi-taught situation (i.e. a closed session an experienced musician leads members of the great unwashed) is helping.
As for Chutzpah... isn't that like Oompah but played on the off beat?
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by JonB
Re: HELP, please..help
Bon Courage Lucie!
J'éspère que tout va bien. Tu joueras comme une vedette de la flûte, j'en suis sûr.
Amitiés
Conán
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Conán McDonnell
Re: HELP, please..help
I know where she's coming from.
I can get horrible performance anxiety at a session when I start a tune and end up playing it more or less solo if no other melody players know it. Tunes turn into train wrecks under those circumstances. I find I do better if I stare at the chanter and block out the presence of the other people in the pub. Doesn't always work, but helps. Also, once I get into the habit of soloing a tune in public, I find it that much easier to play it again solo during the next session. But the first time I play any tune alone in a pub usually doesn't end that well.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by TheSilverSpear
Re: HELP, please..help
Conan, you international man of mystery, you!
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Will CPT
Re: HELP, please..help
Some good advice here already, but I’ll add some more personal experience. I have a benign tremor condition inherited from my father. As a young man, he tried to deal with it by self-medicating with alcohol when he needed to engage in business (it does actually help with the tremors) and within a few years was badly addicted. Now, I like my pint as much as the next stooge, but I think it’s a bad idea to start depending on it to get you through tough spots. That’s been the path to addiction for lots of people.
Of course, non-medicinal solutions are best, so give them a good try. But failing there, lots of performers use the occasional very small dose of Inderal (propranolol) to help control performance anxiety. It’s been shown in good studies to decrease the effects of perf anx without significant side effects. I use it occasionally to control the tremors and have never had any problems with it.
But, again, this kind of thing should be a last resort. I’ve always found that the more often I play for people (whether one person or a big audience), the less nervous I am about it. So I say take every opportunity to play for very small, unthreatening audiences – like one or two friends. It’ll build up your confidence.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: HELP, please..help
It's a session. No one is listening to you anyway. If that thought doesn't help, drink.
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Farr
Re: HELP, please..help
Maybe you could take little steps and build up to it.
I can join in at sessions OK but after 7 years playing fiddle I still won't start a tune. I tell myself that I will when I'm ready and try not to let it spoil enjoying a session. Its also a bit that a lot of the tunes I know from my teacher , the people at the session don't know, yet I've learned their tunes. I'm not complaining here - its just a difficult situation for me.
I've a similar thing with singing. I love to sing, have had lessons and am told I'm a decent singer but the heart just pounds so much when I try to sing when anyone is there (except the kids). I'm building up to it by joining in with chorus' and have set myself a moveable target of singing solo by the end of the year.
Good luck with it and enjoy yourself. Its not about being perfect ( this is what I try to tell myself too!)
# Posted on November 15th 2005 by Caraaz
Re: HELP, please..help
Try reading "The Inner Game of Music" Fantastic book that gives you loads of advice on stage fright, all non medical.
# Posted on November 16th 2005 by woops
Re: HELP, please..help
hi lucie. i think you may have had just about all the advice possible, but i'd like to share my own experience with you. i'm 18, dont really drink alcohol, and therefore dont go into pubs much. when i walked into the porterhouse for my first session i felt really self-concious. in fact, i'd got lost on the way there, so i was already feeling a bit daft. playing in front of other people has never bothered me, but i understand your nervousness. thankfully, all the people i met that night were really friendly. i think if the other people at the session are welcoming, you will feel instantly relaxed. its definately worth getting over this fear, 'cos sessions are great. i've only been to 3, but i'm hooked now! x (i try to play flute too)
# Posted on November 16th 2005 by flisstle
Re: HELP, please..help
"i think if the other people at the session are welcoming, you will feel instantly relaxed."
I think you have missed the point that she is now afraid to play with/in front of other people she has previously been perfectly comfortable playing with/in front of for years.
This is a different problem than you one you posit a solution for, and, unfortunately, not at all an uncommon one.
KFG
# Posted on November 16th 2005 by KFG
Re: HELP, please..help
Bob himself made a good point. Alcohol is great for a bit, but it's best not to rely on it. Propanolol is non-addicting, as is atenolol. Both are beta-blockers, and help dampen the fight-or-flight response that causes much nervousness.
If all else fails, it never hurts to seek professional help. A good scientifically-oriented psychologist with training in hyponsis can do wonders. There's no need to suffer, and no shame in seeking help.
# Posted on November 16th 2005 by TaoCat
Re: HELP, please..help
Ptarmigan made a good point.I cured my stage fright by busking.It's true that in a session most of the punters are not listening anyway and the ones that are will forgive you almost anything.
# Posted on November 16th 2005 by dafydd
help... please help=epilogue
i 've got back home!
i'm still alive
now, let me tell you the story....
9.00pm=time to leave home. I can feel butterflies flying in my stomach, but i try hard to keep in mind what you told me: "people don't care", "you're not forced to play", "try to play just one tune" and so on so forth...And, wooh, 9.25pm, i'm already in front of the pub, where i meet the other musicians. We start joking, i relax, it's gonna be okay...
Then, here we are, we're IN the pub, with people in it...my oh my...i sit next to the window, put my flute on my knees(which is a good beginning), play a few notes(my sound is awful), and then we start....and i'm shaking terribly...
And that was the strangest session i've ever played in. It was very...quiet. First, the "leader" wasn't there.(by "leader", i mean, The Professional fiddler, The One who plays best, The One who knows around 3,000 tunes..), the guitar player wasn't there either. Yet, there were about 10 fiddles, 2 bodhrans, and, 2 fluters(me included!!). Why was it strange? Because, nobody knew the tunes each of us was playing. Therefore, you almost had to play a set of reels alone. AAAAAAARGH!!!! BUT, i realized that i didn't even care. The people in the pub were there drinking their beer, not even listenning to the music...so, ok, Lucie, let's go, be brave, you want to play, go then!! and I did it!!!!!! first, i played a reel(Skylark), and i tried to play another one after it(john carty's), but it didn't work out., since nobody knew those tunes! but anyway, i didn't care. I managed to play the first one very well(i think everyone was astonished to hear me playing...!)...Then, i felt good(i was a bit drunk, i think...), so i played a hornpipe, which nobody knew of course, but it was very well played too...i tried a third tune, a set of jigs, very famous ones, The Kilmovee Jig, and The Maids in the kitchen...guess what! nobody knew!!! therefore, i had great difficulities to play it...because of course, my fingers were shaking, my blow was hard, and there was nobody able to play with me...but anyway, i didn't care!!!
It was a good RE-start, i think. What I want to do next week, is to play the tunes i played yesterday night, to play them very well, to manage to play the set entirely, properly, as i used to play a few months ago. I want to get again the habit to play. I want it to be natural. I realized yesterday that was capable to play, so...eh oh let's go!
# Posted on November 16th 2005 by lucie
Re: help... please help=epilogue
Well done!
(10 fiddles? - how awful!)
# Posted on November 16th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: HELP, please..help
wanna add something.
i want you to know how PROUD of myself i am. Because, what i really needed, i think, is someone to tell me "you play well and keep on playing because it worths it". i needed encouragement, see what i mean? and that's exactly what happened yesterday actually. i hadn't played at that session for such a longtime, that the other musicians were extremely pleased to hear me playing...they told me i played very well, the other fluter even told me i should teach the flute(??!!)...
it really was a weird session, but it wasn't beacuse of me and that was great anyway.
# Posted on November 16th 2005 by lucie
Re: HELP, please..help
Jim - 10 is a big number.
It more than several.
It's more than how many eggs are in a small box, and nearly as many as eggs in a big box.
It's as many as all your toes before that business with the rotavator.
Does that help?
# Posted on November 16th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: HELP, please..help
"i want you to know how PROUD of myself i am."
Well, we have achieved some sort of symetry then, because I want you to know how proud I am of you.
KFG
# Posted on November 16th 2005 by KFG
Re: HELP, please..help
well, if you want to plan a trip to France, go to Caen, Normandy(instead of Brettony, lol!), and ask for the pub La Garsouille. I'll be glad to meet you all there! (and play with and in front of you!wouh, what an achievement!)...don't forget your fiddles, i think 10 isn't enough...
And thank you for keeping me a seat in your sessions, i'm honored!
see you soon then!( i'll come when i have money to pay for the plane ticket, or boat tichet, which means not that soon actually...)
For the cd, i'm thinking of it, perhaps a tour all around the world as well...i should ask my manager...perhaps i'll replace JM Veillon in his flute training courses...what a career i've just carved out!!
of course, i'm kidding, ahah. I'm still afraid of playing in front of somebody...Stage fright(or People fright, as i read in the article on www.guitarnoise.com) does not disappear by magic(too easy)...but at least, i think it won't keep away from playing anymore. No way i get petrified again when i have to play!
# Posted on November 16th 2005 by lucie
Re: HELP, please..help
oh, by the way! is anyone here from Cork or Dundalk?
# Posted on November 16th 2005 by lucie
Re: HELP, please..help
well done! (sorry my advice was rubbish)
x
# Posted on November 16th 2005 by flisstle
Re: HELP, please..help
Lucie, sounds like you're making progress with it, congrats!
I just returned from Zoukfest in New Mexico. It was a wonderful week-long camp, with some fantastic instructors, including John Carty, Roger Landes, Randal Bays, Luke Plumb, Matt & Shannon Heaton, etc.
One of the classes (which I didn't take) was taught by a guy named Don Richmond. The class was titled "Getting Your Music Past The Fear", which is also the title of his new book. (http://www.donrichmond.com/gymptf1.html)
The class looked fascinating. From what I understand, they basically just worked on playing music in front of each other, and discussed what their feelings were when doing that. And then did things like recorded and videotaped the playing and explored what kind of nervousness that brought on. I didn't get a chance to talk to anyone who had taken the class, but it really sounded neat, because you got a chance to really try to explore, accept, and ultimately ignore the nervousness aspects of playing in front of others.
I'm thinking of ordering his book because it looks interesting. I don't normally have much "stage fright", but I did find that I had a hard time starting tunes when asked in sessions at the festival in front of the likes of John Carty (my new hero, btw).
Good luck with your continued progress!
Pete
# Posted on November 17th 2005 by Reverend
Re: HELP, please..help
Hooray and congratulations!
# Posted on November 17th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: HELP, please..help
I should give shakey-egg lessons.
# Posted on November 17th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: HELP, please..help
What did I tellya?! Drink!... What can't it do?
# Posted on November 17th 2005 by Farr
Re: HELP, please..help
Est-ce que je puis apporter mon vielle a roue?
Sorry I can't find the squiggldy bits on this XP.
# Posted on November 17th 2005 by Owell Mabee
Re: HELP, please..help
Oh, BTW congrats on yr breakthru.
# Posted on November 17th 2005 by Owell Mabee
Re: HELP, please..help
une vielle à roue!!! TROP BIEN!!!! that would be fun! you play irish music with it? because, generally, une vielle à roue(how dyou call it in English??)is used in breton music, or norman music, in "fest-noz", etc... but I'd be pleased to hear you!...
# Posted on November 17th 2005 by lucie
Re: HELP, please..help
OK, now that everybody's helped Lucie, can we please start talking about ME!
I'm so nervous that I get too shakey to play the bodhran but then I freeze up so that I'm not shakey enough to play the shakey eggs? What should I do?
# Posted on November 17th 2005 by cuchulain54