Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I noticed on the Chiff & fipple forum a piper stating,"The Session.org is a nice enough resource but never once have I found the version of the tune I wanted to play".I worry that ,although piping versions of tunes are unique to themselves and have their own ornamentions,it should still be possible to get an authentic version of a tune on this site.Discuss.
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
No I think rather that it is full of different versions of tunes. People are always going to adapt a tune to the style they want to play depending on who they want to emulate as a player. And what exactly are we going to describe an 'authentic version' of any kind of tune?
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I think what The Session gives is a collection of tunes as posted! Just like O'Neill (original version, not M&K) had all the triplets etc as he collected them.
The Session has the difference in the collectors and contributors, not the one source.
Maybe calling a version inferior is misguided ; after all one man's meat is another man's poison!
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I suppose it depends on the purpose. I’ve only been into ITM for about a year. For me, this site is a tremendous resource. I use the music here to get myself up to a minimum standard so that I can play along at a session. Then work on the nuances of the tunes after listening to some of the better players that I see every week. Also after learning a tune I come back to read the comments and work on the posted variations.
Only once or twice that I can remember was the version posted here incompatible with what is played at my local sessions as compared with O’Neil’s which I find to be rarely compatible.
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
"Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes"
i think the short answer is no. I can see, for the most part, people who submit tunes here are conscious enough to submit 'basic' versions of tunes and not an indivudals particular version.
If that piper didn't find the 'version he wanted to play', thats no fault of the tunes submitted to this site.
The piper in question should learn the basic version and create their own version and not be relying on others for enlightenment.
Expecting 'authentic' version is dangerous too. You have to ask 'authentic' to what.
To an instrument, a region, an era of time, etc.
E.g. The Bucks in 1900's Chicago on the pipes will be different to the tune as played in 2005 Dublin on the fiddle. You can't tell the dublin fiddle players that their version is less authentic only because its newer. The 1900's version may be historicaly more original but if the 2005 version is common to that place, time and instrument it renders itself to be presently authentic and more acceptable than the 1900's version.
But, an essential part of understanding Irish music is knowing and appreciating that there are many versions of tunes and each one valid.
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I generally agree with the original quote, in that rarely have I found a setting of a tune here that I wanted to play. However, I also rarely look tunes up here, so not much of an accurate statistic.
I usually learn my Irish tunes by ear. I have occasionally looked up a tune that I was trying to learn from a recording and just couldn't "hear" bits of it - but the setting posted varied so much from the one I was trying to learn that it wasn't much help on pretty much every occasion that I can remember.
I have used it a few times simply to remember how a tune goes, full stop. The setting given was enough to jog my memory, even though different than what I play.
I do enjoy browsing through books of tunes, but have never done that here as it's too labourious and not as nice as actually turning pages.
However, what I really enjoy are the comments section, I have learned loads from these!
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
How do you know which version the piper wanted to play, and whether that, in fact, maight have been a duff version? Aha!
How do we know if this piper was not a complete ignoramus?
If this piper was worth his salt, surely he could take the bones of a tune and turn it into what he wants. Does it all have to be spelled out?
What is 'an authentic version of a tune'? Authenticised by whom?
There are some very odd people on Chiff and Dribble. It's such a sprawling site that they probably visited one of the forums once and never found their way out.
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Yes and no. It depends on what you're looking for. People are submitting the tunes as they know them for the most part. Sometimes their source is the same as mine, and sometimes not. Many times I'll find the version I'm looking for in the comments rather than the initial posting. I have tried to contribute my versions of tunes in the comments sections for that very reason. One of the best things about the tune database here is that different versions can be added. One man’s bad version is another man’s treasure.
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
"Never once have I found the version of the tune I wanted to play"
Precisely!. That's the point. You never ever should. A notated version of a tune can only ever be the bare bones of it. By this reasoning, there is a respectable body of opinion which says there should not be notated versions of tunes. Personally, I think that is an extreme position. I think notation has a role, but a very limited one. For example it makes nonsense to try to play a tune from notation that you have never heard, which is a a perfectly common practice for classical players.
The only role for notation is to give you the basic shape. There is no point playing this exactly as someone else does. The point is to get the shape and say what you think about the tune through your playing
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I'm pretty much with Kris on this one.
I find that, having heard a tune I like (and I'm new to this really so I find this quite confusing), I try to find it here but almost invariably the sheet music (and the midi file) is quite different from the way I've heard it played. So I never quite know whether I should learn the tune I've heard, by ear, or learn the different verison from the sheet music. I ask myself which is going to be the most common. It can be a bit of a pain.
I've resorted to finding as many examples of a tune as I can as clips on the Internet to see which is the most common version.
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I remember seeing Ivor Moirants, in Ivor Moirants ( his shop ) playing a piece of guitar music from the dots to a couple, and they were unhappy with the version he played them, as opposed to what they remembered or had heard, and he simply said "It's the best. "
I think every version or arrangement is yours to choose, and after reading the recent character assasination of Pete Cooper I agree that maybe Chiff and Fipple has some strange people on it.
And who knows what they are saying about us ?
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
The first thing that springs to mind is that chafed nipples is the site wherein the monster Toastie lurks. He who recently gave out about our Jim.
But the last thing we want to do is to factionalise, like some load of far left parties of the 70's and 80's. We need to cop on that what was said is not necessarily the concensus view of all Chiff and Fipple members.
A recent exchange of emails with a member here regarding a controversial remark I made, made me think twice about all this posturing we do (not just the male members!) We have to remember that we are a minority interest, and if some young person with an embryonic interest in the music were to log on and observe any snidey back-biting, they might freak, and want to go back to listening to Britney, thus obviate imminent salvation.
I had a look over at The Mudcat Cafe today, to discover that an old chap, a singer from around here, Dave Bryant, had died. Now, I have to admit, his style wasn't my cup of tea. Booming voice folky with guitar and all that. But that was his thing. He was part of the local folk-trad landscape and he'll be missed, and certainly he was greatly loved by many on Mudcat and the SE London FolkMob.
Just to say, in conclusion, don't worry about what some person said on another site. If you need to email her, be kind, try and win her over. And remember we all need to stick together or globalisation will nick our music as well as everything else we want to be individual about.
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Since it's open-sourced & mainly unjuried - it can be both good & bad. If you're looking for a particular setting of a tune, there's no better way than to learn that setting yourself. Sheetmusic is a crutch & the use of it is a topic which has been flogged to death. On the whole there is more good than bad - most of the settings at thesessoin.org are acceptable versions of what I hear at sessions. The Comments section on the tunes should always be read over, it fleshes the tunes out with alternate settings history, stories etc. If you find a setting which has nothing to do with what you know & love - post a comment. I wouldn't flame the whole database on the account of one person's opinion though.
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I find the tunes on this site to be quite close to what I hear at my session. I have my Tunebook printed out and make changes as I hear them so I can practice them during the week.
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Some tune submissions here are simplified settings (so you have to know what your musical options are when you read, e.g., |df f2 af f2|).
Some are transcriptions of "as played" settings by respected players (so you have to take into account what instrument was being played, and personal style, and whether the source was a gig, a studio recording, or a session).
Some are "as played" settings from musicians with less experience in the tradition (so you have to know what clues give that away).
Some are abcs lifted whole off other web sites (so you have to check the back story to determine how reliable the source is).
Some are lifted whole from old printed collections (so you have to check the back story to determine how reliable the source is).
Some are posted by people well versed in the music and the tradition. Some are posted by relative newcomers.
In sum, you have to already know how to play this music if you want to get a playable version of a tune off the notation here. Surprise, surprise.
Strikes me that these considerations are true of nearly every other web source for Irish trad tunes. At least here we all have the immediate opportunity to post additional settings, to exchange information and questions about tunes and settings, and even to offer corrections.
Besides, thesession.org tune database is relatively young. As the years go by, I suspect more and more people will add versions to the comments, greatly enriching the collection. Many tunes have already been well fleshed out this way--with a little tender loving care, it will only get better.
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
With the number of pedants and self-styled experts on the session, inferior versions of tunes would not get far without comments and suggested superior versions of the same tune.
I always amend tunes to my style but have always found the standard of notation of tunes on here to be good.
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Kevin's right.
So's everyone else, but he hits the point, if I may paraphrase:
"I play it this way, and if you have a problem with that, that is your problem, not mine".
As for what's "authentic" . . . . oh we've been there before haven't we boys and girls.
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
It doesn't take long for any newcomer to realize how many versions there are of some tunes , but in my experience there are usually very notable similarities..... But there is one tune on this site that I can't seem to liken to ANY other version I have ever heard , it doesn't even seem to come close, especially not the midi file anyway, not sure about the dots , maybe somebody more experienced with reading dots might make something of it. The tune I refer to is Nora Crionna. Does anybody else have a comment on that specific tune and the version on this site ?
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Hi, Eamonn, I took a look at "Nora Crionna". It was posted by Gian Marco, who transcribed it from Mary Bergin's 1st CD. It looks pretty accurate to me. What "other" versions are you referring to ?
"Inferior versions" ? Sod 'em. If they don't like the versions here, they can get them somewhere else. As far as I'm concerned, all the tunes I've ever posted are authentic versions, transcribed, to the best of my ability, from the playing of traditional Irish musicians. What would be an "inauthentic" version ?
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I'd never refer to any version as inferior !!, but take a listen to Donal Lunny's version , track 9 I think , on his Coolfin album or Mícheál Ó Briain's version on The Drones & the Chanters Vol 2. Mícheál's version is excellent, he plays it as a piece, which starts at a slow tempo and then moves into Jig tempo, It's the Jig tempo portion that I'm more familiar with. Maybe I need to get a copy of Mary Bergin's CD to see the similarity. Check out the other 2 versions I mentioned , you won't be disappointed !
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Hi Jim , I replied to Kenny before I saw your reply & I have to agree , as my other reply suggests, Mícheál's version is , as you call it , a beaut !!! I could listen to it ten thousand times over & still want to hear it again !...... as well as his other tracks , of course ! Missed you the other night , hope you're feeling better !
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
........or Maybe because it was Mary's first CD she plays a really bad version..hahahaha, just joking of course , took a quick look on the web and there are a few sites that have sound samples of Mary's CD but they all cut off before she gets to Nora Criona , but the bits I did hear make me want to buy it now anyway ! so now I have 2 reasons to buy it , gwan Mary !
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Nora Crionna is a perfect example for why the dots in the database should only be in reference to the aural tune. Gian Marco transcribed it from the same recording where I learned it, but there are some discrepancies. If I had learned it from the dots he posted here, I would be playing it much differently than I do today. There are a few discrepancies in the first part, but it's the ending of the second part that is most obvious. Mary plays a sequence of melodic triplets (B/c/d) as the final notes ascend. Gian heard these three notes moving upward with the melody, (B/c/d, c/d/e, def) but if you listen to the recording she only plays the (B/c/d) each time. If I were to learn this tune from Gian's transcription without the aural source to refer to -- I would have missed that. Besides not being accurate to Mary’s playing, it would be more difficult to play.
I would caution anyone against taking these transcriptions literally. Sometimes there's no direct source for the tune's transcriptions, but the same sort of discrepancies might exist. All these transcriptions can do is start you on a path for tracking down the tunes and give you an idea of how they go. Luckily there are vast resources available to us these days to track down recordings or finding people who play the tunes. When you can't find any sources beyond what's available here you have to just do your best I guess, but always be on the lookout for tune corroborations.
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
For some reason, it seems to be that the tune I get sounds not only completely different than what I've hear, but is written that way too. I got a tune off here and got the same one off of a different site, and they seem to be two different tunes!
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Oh, and this is the only place I can get tunes off for free, at least a diverse selection, so it doesn't matter, just kind of agreeing. I wouldn't call the inferior, though, just very different from versions I've actually heard
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
You can get ABCs in loads of places, but where The Session scores is in the comments on the tunes and the variations that people have taken the trouble to post. It's great, don't knock it, couldn't be without it!
Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I noticed on the Chiff & fipple forum a piper stating,"The Session.org is a nice enough resource but never once have I found the version of the tune I wanted to play".I worry that ,although piping versions of tunes are unique to themselves and have their own ornamentions,it should still be possible to get an authentic version of a tune on this site.Discuss.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by cos
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
No I think rather that it is full of different versions of tunes. People are always going to adapt a tune to the style they want to play depending on who they want to emulate as a player. And what exactly are we going to describe an 'authentic version' of any kind of tune?
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by musicfan
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I think what The Session gives is a collection of tunes as posted! Just like O'Neill (original version, not M&K) had all the triplets etc as he collected them.
The Session has the difference in the collectors and contributors, not the one source.
Maybe calling a version inferior is misguided ; after all one man's meat is another man's poison!
Brianx
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by briantheflute
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I suppose it depends on the purpose. I’ve only been into ITM for about a year. For me, this site is a tremendous resource. I use the music here to get myself up to a minimum standard so that I can play along at a session. Then work on the nuances of the tunes after listening to some of the better players that I see every week. Also after learning a tune I come back to read the comments and work on the posted variations.
Only once or twice that I can remember was the version posted here incompatible with what is played at my local sessions as compared with O’Neil’s which I find to be rarely compatible.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by iampeterfonda
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
"Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes"
i think the short answer is no. I can see, for the most part, people who submit tunes here are conscious enough to submit 'basic' versions of tunes and not an indivudals particular version.
If that piper didn't find the 'version he wanted to play', thats no fault of the tunes submitted to this site.
The piper in question should learn the basic version and create their own version and not be relying on others for enlightenment.
Expecting 'authentic' version is dangerous too. You have to ask 'authentic' to what.
To an instrument, a region, an era of time, etc.
E.g. The Bucks in 1900's Chicago on the pipes will be different to the tune as played in 2005 Dublin on the fiddle. You can't tell the dublin fiddle players that their version is less authentic only because its newer. The 1900's version may be historicaly more original but if the 2005 version is common to that place, time and instrument it renders itself to be presently authentic and more acceptable than the 1900's version.
But, an essential part of understanding Irish music is knowing and appreciating that there are many versions of tunes and each one valid.
t
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by tompipes
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I generally agree with the original quote, in that rarely have I found a setting of a tune here that I wanted to play. However, I also rarely look tunes up here, so not much of an accurate statistic.
I usually learn my Irish tunes by ear. I have occasionally looked up a tune that I was trying to learn from a recording and just couldn't "hear" bits of it - but the setting posted varied so much from the one I was trying to learn that it wasn't much help on pretty much every occasion that I can remember.
I have used it a few times simply to remember how a tune goes, full stop. The setting given was enough to jog my memory, even though different than what I play.
I do enjoy browsing through books of tunes, but have never done that here as it's too labourious and not as nice as actually turning pages.
However, what I really enjoy are the comments section, I have learned loads from these!
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by kris
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
How do you know which version the piper wanted to play, and whether that, in fact, maight have been a duff version? Aha!
How do we know if this piper was not a complete ignoramus?
If this piper was worth his salt, surely he could take the bones of a tune and turn it into what he wants. Does it all have to be spelled out?
What is 'an authentic version of a tune'? Authenticised by whom?
There are some very odd people on Chiff and Dribble. It's such a sprawling site that they probably visited one of the forums once and never found their way out.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Ottery
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
The piper in question was actually a `she`piper! Thank you everyone for your feedback. I can now send her a poison pen letter with impunity!
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by cos
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Yes and no. It depends on what you're looking for. People are submitting the tunes as they know them for the most part. Sometimes their source is the same as mine, and sometimes not. Many times I'll find the version I'm looking for in the comments rather than the initial posting. I have tried to contribute my versions of tunes in the comments sections for that very reason. One of the best things about the tune database here is that different versions can be added. One man’s bad version is another man’s treasure.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
"Never once have I found the version of the tune I wanted to play"
Precisely!. That's the point. You never ever should. A notated version of a tune can only ever be the bare bones of it. By this reasoning, there is a respectable body of opinion which says there should not be notated versions of tunes. Personally, I think that is an extreme position. I think notation has a role, but a very limited one. For example it makes nonsense to try to play a tune from notation that you have never heard, which is a a perfectly common practice for classical players.
The only role for notation is to give you the basic shape. There is no point playing this exactly as someone else does. The point is to get the shape and say what you think about the tune through your playing
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Pól
P.S.
And sometimes I can't find what I'm looking for at all.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I'm pretty much with Kris on this one.
I find that, having heard a tune I like (and I'm new to this really so I find this quite confusing), I try to find it here but almost invariably the sheet music (and the midi file) is quite different from the way I've heard it played. So I never quite know whether I should learn the tune I've heard, by ear, or learn the different verison from the sheet music. I ask myself which is going to be the most common. It can be a bit of a pain.
I've resorted to finding as many examples of a tune as I can as clips on the Internet to see which is the most common version.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by halfirish
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I remember seeing Ivor Moirants, in Ivor Moirants ( his shop ) playing a piece of guitar music from the dots to a couple, and they were unhappy with the version he played them, as opposed to what they remembered or had heard, and he simply said "It's the best. "
I think every version or arrangement is yours to choose, and after reading the recent character assasination of Pete Cooper I agree that maybe Chiff and Fipple has some strange people on it.
And who knows what they are saying about us ?
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I hardly ever go to the tunes section here, for ALL the reasons, no matter how diverse, mentioned above
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
The first thing that springs to mind is that chafed nipples is the site wherein the monster Toastie lurks. He who recently gave out about our Jim.
But the last thing we want to do is to factionalise, like some load of far left parties of the 70's and 80's. We need to cop on that what was said is not necessarily the concensus view of all Chiff and Fipple members.
A recent exchange of emails with a member here regarding a controversial remark I made, made me think twice about all this posturing we do (not just the male members!) We have to remember that we are a minority interest, and if some young person with an embryonic interest in the music were to log on and observe any snidey back-biting, they might freak, and want to go back to listening to Britney, thus obviate imminent salvation.
I had a look over at The Mudcat Cafe today, to discover that an old chap, a singer from around here, Dave Bryant, had died. Now, I have to admit, his style wasn't my cup of tea. Booming voice folky with guitar and all that. But that was his thing. He was part of the local folk-trad landscape and he'll be missed, and certainly he was greatly loved by many on Mudcat and the SE London FolkMob.
Just to say, in conclusion, don't worry about what some person said on another site. If you need to email her, be kind, try and win her over. And remember we all need to stick together or globalisation will nick our music as well as everything else we want to be individual about.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
ha ha. I'm reminded of The Life of Bryan and the scene with "The People's Front of Judea" and "The Judean's People's Front" etc ...
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Since it's open-sourced & mainly unjuried - it can be both good & bad. If you're looking for a particular setting of a tune, there's no better way than to learn that setting yourself. Sheetmusic is a crutch & the use of it is a topic which has been flogged to death. On the whole there is more good than bad - most of the settings at thesessoin.org are acceptable versions of what I hear at sessions. The Comments section on the tunes should always be read over, it fleshes the tunes out with alternate settings history, stories etc. If you find a setting which has nothing to do with what you know & love - post a comment. I wouldn't flame the whole database on the account of one person's opinion though.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Mad Baloney
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I find the tunes on this site to be quite close to what I hear at my session. I have my Tunebook printed out and make changes as I hear them so I can practice them during the week.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
C&F is better for instrument-specific questions, but the beer is better here.
Both of them have those patrons who assume they are the font of authenticity. It's a pretty pathetic thing over with to develop an overweening ego.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by wormdiet
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
[sic]
"over which," rather.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by wormdiet
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Some tune submissions here are simplified settings (so you have to know what your musical options are when you read, e.g., |df f2 af f2|).
Some are transcriptions of "as played" settings by respected players (so you have to take into account what instrument was being played, and personal style, and whether the source was a gig, a studio recording, or a session).
Some are "as played" settings from musicians with less experience in the tradition (so you have to know what clues give that away).
Some are abcs lifted whole off other web sites (so you have to check the back story to determine how reliable the source is).
Some are lifted whole from old printed collections (so you have to check the back story to determine how reliable the source is).
Some are posted by people well versed in the music and the tradition. Some are posted by relative newcomers.
In sum, you have to already know how to play this music if you want to get a playable version of a tune off the notation here. Surprise, surprise.
Strikes me that these considerations are true of nearly every other web source for Irish trad tunes. At least here we all have the immediate opportunity to post additional settings, to exchange information and questions about tunes and settings, and even to offer corrections.
Besides, thesession.org tune database is relatively young. As the years go by, I suspect more and more people will add versions to the comments, greatly enriching the collection. Many tunes have already been well fleshed out this way--with a little tender loving care, it will only get better.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Will CPT
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
The one and only "authentic" version of a tune is the one I happen to be playing at any given moment.
Whether or not that version has any relationship to any given set of dots is at least partially coincidental.
KFG
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by KFG
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
How very Zen, Kevin.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
...Yet true.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Perhapsyour friend was "The Quarrelsome Piper" (geddit?)
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by JonB
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
With the number of pedants and self-styled experts on the session, inferior versions of tunes would not get far without comments and suggested superior versions of the same tune.
I always amend tunes to my style but have always found the standard of notation of tunes on here to be good.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by geoffwright
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Kevin's right.
So's everyone else, but he hits the point, if I may paraphrase:
"I play it this way, and if you have a problem with that, that is your problem, not mine".
As for what's "authentic" . . . . oh we've been there before haven't we boys and girls.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
It doesn't take long for any newcomer to realize how many versions there are of some tunes , but in my experience there are usually very notable similarities..... But there is one tune on this site that I can't seem to liken to ANY other version I have ever heard , it doesn't even seem to come close, especially not the midi file anyway, not sure about the dots , maybe somebody more experienced with reading dots might make something of it. The tune I refer to is Nora Crionna. Does anybody else have a comment on that specific tune and the version on this site ?
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Eamonn Croke
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Hi, Eamonn, I took a look at "Nora Crionna". It was posted by Gian Marco, who transcribed it from Mary Bergin's 1st CD. It looks pretty accurate to me. What "other" versions are you referring to ?
"Inferior versions" ? Sod 'em. If they don't like the versions here, they can get them somewhere else. As far as I'm concerned, all the tunes I've ever posted are authentic versions, transcribed, to the best of my ability, from the playing of traditional Irish musicians. What would be an "inauthentic" version ?
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Kenny
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
I'd never refer to any version as inferior !!, but take a listen to Donal Lunny's version , track 9 I think , on his Coolfin album or Mícheál Ó Briain's version on The Drones & the Chanters Vol 2. Mícheál's version is excellent, he plays it as a piece, which starts at a slow tempo and then moves into Jig tempo, It's the Jig tempo portion that I'm more familiar with. Maybe I need to get a copy of Mary Bergin's CD to see the similarity. Check out the other 2 versions I mentioned , you won't be disappointed !
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Eamonn Croke
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Hi Jim , I replied to Kenny before I saw your reply & I have to agree , as my other reply suggests, Mícheál's version is , as you call it , a beaut !!! I could listen to it ten thousand times over & still want to hear it again !...... as well as his other tracks , of course ! Missed you the other night , hope you're feeling better !
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Eamonn Croke
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
........or Maybe because it was Mary's first CD she plays a really bad version..hahahaha, just joking of course , took a quick look on the web and there are a few sites that have sound samples of Mary's CD but they all cut off before she gets to Nora Criona , but the bits I did hear make me want to buy it now anyway ! so now I have 2 reasons to buy it , gwan Mary !
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Eamonn Croke
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Nora Crionna is a perfect example for why the dots in the database should only be in reference to the aural tune. Gian Marco transcribed it from the same recording where I learned it, but there are some discrepancies. If I had learned it from the dots he posted here, I would be playing it much differently than I do today. There are a few discrepancies in the first part, but it's the ending of the second part that is most obvious. Mary plays a sequence of melodic triplets (B/c/d) as the final notes ascend. Gian heard these three notes moving upward with the melody, (B/c/d, c/d/e, def) but if you listen to the recording she only plays the (B/c/d) each time. If I were to learn this tune from Gian's transcription without the aural source to refer to -- I would have missed that. Besides not being accurate to Mary’s playing, it would be more difficult to play.
I would caution anyone against taking these transcriptions literally. Sometimes there's no direct source for the tune's transcriptions, but the same sort of discrepancies might exist. All these transcriptions can do is start you on a path for tracking down the tunes and give you an idea of how they go. Luckily there are vast resources available to us these days to track down recordings or finding people who play the tunes. When you can't find any sources beyond what's available here you have to just do your best I guess, but always be on the lookout for tune corroborations.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
For some reason, it seems to be that the tune I get sounds not only completely different than what I've hear, but is written that way too. I got a tune off here and got the same one off of a different site, and they seem to be two different tunes!
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by akoz
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
Oh, and this is the only place I can get tunes off for free, at least a diverse selection, so it doesn't matter, just kind of agreeing. I wouldn't call the inferior, though, just very different from versions I've actually heard
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by akoz
Re: Is this session full of inferior versions of tunes?
You can get ABCs in loads of places, but where The Session scores is in the comments on the tunes and the variations that people have taken the trouble to post. It's great, don't knock it, couldn't be without it!
# Posted on November 4th 2005 by RichardB