A great many of the contributors here tell us that they started classically trained, and came to discover The Music after 5 / 10 / 20 years, and now love it. Some of these now play some of both (like Trevor) and a few declare that now they have found The Music they wish to abandon the classical.
Does anyone make the journey the other way round? Anyone here who started playing diddley, and migrated into some sort of classical, be it orchestra or small ensemble? Or know anyone who has?
I guess anyone who has totally gone over to "the other side" won't be reading this anyway, but there could be some of their friends, or some of the hybrids here.
I just wondered.
(I expect this was discussed in detail about three weeks ago and I missed it - in which case perhaps some learned friend would direct me there.)
This seems to be a not-uncommon phenomenon among harpers--some learn to play ITM on the lever harp, and find themselves drawn to classical music on the concert (pedal) harp.
I played trad and a little pop stuff for about fifteen years, then spent the next eight or ten years playing about 80% classical, then back to trad almost exclusively. Solo classical guitar is a lonely path and I like to play with friends. Also, I found that I really love the trad better. I no longer have the technical ability to play very much classical anyway. It’s too much like work.
Help, Conan, I seem to have stepped into some perpetual cycle; I clicked on your link and it led me to a thread in which you provided a link, which, when I clicked on it, came up with another link that you provided......
I tried it and it was fun at first, but I found reading music from the dots and moving the bow in set directions required a disclipine that I just don't have, so the experience was short and sweet.
I did, briefly.
I was given a metal flute, and had a lot of fun trying to play classical and baroque stuff, but, not having had any training it was a bit beyond my abilities (Irish music is beyond my ability much of the time).
When I moved to this village, I did a couple of bits of playing for local drama groups, just simple incidental music stuff. After one of these I was approached by a lady who said she played violin in an amateur string quartet and why didn't I come and join them and we could do some flute quartets?
I said that I didnt think my playing was up to it, but she just took this for false modesty and badgered away at me until I finally agreed to come along and give it a go.
We met up at the viola player's house (The cellist was coming over from Wantage, where she played in the Wantage Symphony Orchestra). The first thing I noticed was that I was the only one with a bag of tinnies. Basically the format of the evening was, play/practice for an hour and a half, then stop for tea and biscuits, then play some more.
When I asked if they finished in time for last orders at the Barleycorn (which was opposite the house) they looked at me with blank incomprehension.
They gave me some music for Mozart Flute Quartets and we decided to start on the one in D.
It was enormous fun! Trying to count the bars going by in the bits you weren't playing and coming in at the right time proved not to be quite as difficult as I had feared. We got through the evening without falling out, and, I have to say, I don't think I was the actually the weakest link there(!) They were thrilled to be playing with a flutist, and obviously thought they'd made a bit of a find, and packed me off with the dots to practise and reconvene a week later.
Over the next few weeks we made sometimes painful progress through all four Quartets - some were more manageable than others - and everyone was pleased, and on one occasion we even packed up early and went down the pub for last orders.
Then one week the cellist arrived brandishing some new music - We must try this! She cried - I love it, it's Beethovens Serenade for flute!
Buoyed up by my semblance of success with the Mozart, I agreed that it was indeed a fine piece of music, and snatched the score from her excited grasp.
When I looked at it, my eyes popped out of my head!
It was all octave jumps and crazy archipeligos, or whatever they are called.
I said I'd have to take it home and try to run through the flute part first.
Try as I might, I could not get my fingers and lips round this stuff, so I went back next week, a little crestfallen, and said that it was a bit beyond me, and that we should go back to the Mozart, or maybe back further to Pergolesi or someone like that. No, No, they cried, lets at least try it! You can do it!
So we played through it. When we got to the bits I couldn't manage I plyed notes I thought sounded good. We made it all the way through, and they thought it was wonderful. I told you you could do it! They exclaimed.
Next week we tried it again. I must say it sounded quite good (well, interesting), and they obviously had no idea that I wasn't playing it as written. At the end of the evening the Cello player announced that we should put on a little recital in Wantage as part of some fund-aising event she was involved in.
I laughed at her (to tell you the honest truth I was mostly worried about the rather scratchy fiddler). We can't do that, I said, what if someone listening actually knows the piece well?
What do you mean? They chirped.
Well, I said, I'm not exactly playing it the way it's written.
They looked bewildered.
But where did you get the music you're playing? They asked.
Well, I explained, On the hard bits I improvise something that fits in with what you're playing and sounds a bit like what Beethoven intended, after all, I do know the piece of music quite well.
They couldn't believe this and thought I was joking, after all, it sounded great to them, it must be right.
Mustn't it?
No, I said, but it's all in the right key and nothing jars! It sounds ok, doesn't it?
They seemed very disturbed by this revelation. Particularly the rather serious lady from the Wantage Symphony Orchestra.
We didn't go to the Barleycorn that night.
And although I see the fiddler, and the viola player around the village quite a lot, the subject of getting back together never actually comes up ...
I don't wear cardigans - and all of the classical musicians that I know are clean - except when we've been playing frisbee or soccer . . . I am a classical musician and I'm also a folk musician - it should be noted that I play classically on the piano and the folk stuff on the other instruments. I did two years of classical violin lessons - not fun for me - and then one semester of orchestra which might have been fun if they hadn't insisted on playing a few fiddle tunes like they were classical pieces. I'm thinking of taking classical lessons again just to work on technique especially since they're covered by government money while I'm in college.
I wear a cardigan, and play slow airs, which to me are classical.
Actually slow classical bits are like slow airs and easy enough to play, until you hit the sudden mad bits. A bit like the rise in "Limerick's Lament". The mad bit I mean.
I'm a pro violinist who also plays Irish music...I don't think I or many of my classical collegues have ever completed a gig in the honest belief that we had played "exactly what was written"!Having the freedom to improvise is a lot less creatively frustrating than the white noise that goes on in the back of a symphony orchestra..And about those cardigans..it can get very chilly in some of those churches we have to do concerts in.
" I found reading music from the dots and moving the bow in set directions required a disclipine that I just don't have"
Hot tip for you, you don't have to do that. I spent about half of today playing Bach by ear as I damned well pleased.
Oddly enough I spent much of the rest of the day playing fiddle tunes in fairly strict fashion from the dots, just to start getting the tunes fixed in my head before I turn them into music at some later date.
You don't have to do things the way "they" say. If you like the music, play the damned music, any way you damned please.
Some things are best left unchanged; would someone really think they could change Beethoven's Ninth Symphony for the better? KFG, did you change the notes to the Bach or just the style? I don't consider myself good enough to alter the greats.
P.S. Conan, I haven't heard anyone mention Max Escher in a long time (maybe everyone's too busy re-sketching his works)--the engagement's back on.
I started out as a music scholar at Chetham's in Manchester but soon found out that the tyranny of the dots was not for me. In my mid teens I discovered trad Irish and bluegrass (sorry Tanya) and from that moment on there was no looking back; so the antithesis to the original post really. Sorry.
"KFG, did you change the notes to the Bach or just the style?"
How the hell should I know? I told you, I didn't look at the notes. I had music in my head. Music that I've never played before. I made it come out of the fiddle. It sounded pretty good to me. I don't care how it would have sounded to Bach. He's, like, dead and s***.
We have it on pretty authority though that Bach was a pretty good fiddler and improviser. One of his favorite things to do was alter the notes of other greats. It's called "Variations on a Theme." There's nothing wrong with it. Not even on themes by "The Greats." He might well have said to me, "Hey, play that bit again," and used it later himself. Composers do that you know. The Greatest of the Greats have always freely admited that they "steal" like sons of bitches. Only hacks and "artistes" think they're being "original."
I frail Beethoven's Ninth on the five string banjo, as I see fit. I think Beethoven would have liked it just fine. Even if he could have heard it. The last classical pianist who I played it for thought it was a hoot.
For goodness sake, it's all just music, not Holy Writ.
Holy Writ isn't even Holy Writ for that matter.
"I haven't heard anyone mention Max Escher in a long time"
A day hardly goes by that I don't hear his name. I certainly see his works all over the place. Physicists and mathematicians love him to pieces.
I know of a few people around home that have gone from traditional to classical, and this isn't a case of overextending oneself musically. These are a few musicians extremely proficient at Irish music who simply wanted to expand themselves musically. Seriously doubt they have any plans of completely going to the other side, but I guess this reverse process can happen, at least to some degree.
KFG - yeah, Bach, Vivaldi and all the rest of that marvellous crew weren't exactly famous for specifying bowing, or very much in the way of phrasing or dynamics beyond basic loud and soft.. Any edition of Bach's or Vivaldi's violin or cello works which gives phrasing, and detailed bowing and dynamics, and sometimes even fingering (which imho is an insult to anyone capable of playing that music), is invariably by some modern guy who believes in all sincerity that is the ONLY way to play it (and also that a new edition of Bach etc is a good way to make some money). The best way to learn to play such music is to listen to it being played by experts in the period, lots and lots, and go and get an urtext edition (as written by Bach or Vivaldi, with no modern messing around with the music) and do likewise.
Some years ago, John Lill the concert pianist, was ajudicating at the Leeds Piano Festival (one of the world's premier classical competitions), and during a break in the proceedings he wandered into a pub nearby to find himself in the middle of a pub pianist competition. He said in a radio interview I heard later something to the effect that this was one of the most enjoyable music experiences he'd ever had, and that one or two of those pub pianists had the technique to have appeared in the Leeds competition with no questions asked.
Ottery, that was a wonderful story about your improvising in a Beethoven flute quartet! Consider yourself an honorary member of the MFU (Music Faker's Union), which most self-respecting orchestral players are members of!
Remember that the one basic thing that distinguishes Irish (and other folk music) from classical music is that Irish music doesn't wear a bow tie and tails.
I know a girl trained in diddley by her loving father, and then denouncing the tradition and embracing the classical. The effects are, ekhm, stunning. Literally. Schubert romantic pieces squeezed out of a fiddle with a characteristic heavy sound of Donegal. Makes your imagination go wild.
J.S. Bach & O'Carolyn were just 15 years apart in age.... two of my favorite composers. I'll bet they hang out together on the other side sometimes for tea & whatnot.
. . . . . I expect they spend whole days decomposing together!
I s'pose the classical conversion option rather tends to depend on what instrument you play. There's not much call for whistles or banjos in classical music - just like there's not much call for bodhrans in diddly music.
Enlighten us. Our perception over here is that the population of Western Australia is about 3,500, of whome 3,450 are rough tough sheep wranglers, and the other 500 are bar floozies. Just how many of these people actually play in anything so prissy and girlie as a Mandolin Orchestra?
Ottery's posting reminds me painfully of one of my worst ever lifetime experiences when I was persuaded against all good sense to play my banjo with an amateur orchestra. I was having great fun at the time playing trad jazz with a sousaphone player (splendid instrument - any use in ITM?) and a trumpet player. Someone from the orchestra was scouting for a banjo player to play in a Kurt Weill piece, and my name was mentioned. I was told it was a piece of cake - dead simple, just twang away in the right places, but they lied. I was so hopelessly out of my depth I wanted the floor to open up and rescue me. The main problem was counting all the rest bars, and then coming in frantically plucking away at the right moment. I did not succeed. I was playing my Windsor Zither banjo, which in recent years has been employed mainly as a wall decoration.
I started out with trad voice and whistle, then went classical for about 15 years, and now I'm swinging back again towards the trad. Although classical makes my money, and I have no intention of leaving my choir...
I have done both for more than 30 years as a singer, and now that I'm less dangerous on the mandolin I'm thinking of branching out from ITM into a little Corelli.
I find that each has its own strict discipline. The great virtue of trad music is that I don't have to read a monomaniac conductor's mind. The great virtue of the classical stuff is that most of the tune is on the page.
Conan, I'm afraid the embarrassment would be too great for you, for when I play Bach partitas on the violin or Vivaldi mandolin concertoes, I (gulp) actually play the notes they so carefully crafted and wrote down with such care. The shock of this confession may be too much; please (sob) don't hate me!
dmarie,
If Beethoven was serious about wanting me to play his wretched Flute Sonata, he shouldn't have written notes so far above the stave that I needed a calculator to work out what they were, and then an embouchure as tiny and tight as a watervole's bottom to play them!
Beethoven did have a sadistic streak, didn't he? As did Bach and Paganini--but the fact that they and their contemporaries could play the compositions; well, there you have it.
Only jazz piano, I'm fed up with up the classical stuff on the piano. I had 15 years of that in Dublin's RIAM (Eire) and finished all the exams. I wouldn't teach it either....Cynical eh?
"Monomaniac conductors" do have their uses. At my chamber orchestra rehearsal a few days ago a few bars played by the second violins fell apart in a big way. The conductor pointed out that it was simple grade 3 dots but they were playing it like they were struggling grade 2 players. They immediately smartened up their act after that comment. Btw, all the players are at least grade 8 (and some are ex-pros), and our conductor isn't just a baton waver; he's a top line violin soloist and teacher who has done his time in a rock band in his teens; and is a very nice guy indeed.
Does anyone swing the other way?
Does anyone swing the other way?
A great many of the contributors here tell us that they started classically trained, and came to discover The Music after 5 / 10 / 20 years, and now love it. Some of these now play some of both (like Trevor) and a few declare that now they have found The Music they wish to abandon the classical.
Does anyone make the journey the other way round? Anyone here who started playing diddley, and migrated into some sort of classical, be it orchestra or small ensemble? Or know anyone who has?
I guess anyone who has totally gone over to "the other side" won't be reading this anyway, but there could be some of their friends, or some of the hybrids here.
I just wondered.
(I expect this was discussed in detail about three weeks ago and I missed it - in which case perhaps some learned friend would direct me there.)
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Why d'ya wanna know?
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by BegF
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
This seems to be a not-uncommon phenomenon among harpers--some learn to play ITM on the lever harp, and find themselves drawn to classical music on the concert (pedal) harp.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by tedium
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I played trad and a little pop stuff for about fifteen years, then spent the next eight or ten years playing about 80% classical, then back to trad almost exclusively. Solo classical guitar is a lonely path and I like to play with friends. Also, I found that I really love the trad better. I no longer have the technical ability to play very much classical anyway. It’s too much like work.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Check out this thread, Dave:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/8232
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Nah Conan, this one's much better.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by BegF
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I disagree
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Help, Conan, I seem to have stepped into some perpetual cycle; I clicked on your link and it led me to a thread in which you provided a link, which, when I clicked on it, came up with another link that you provided......
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by cuchulain54
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Yeah, so does http://www.thesession.org/members/display.php/1402
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by BegF
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Max Escher would have loved this.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Who now ?
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by BegF
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I tried it and it was fun at first, but I found reading music from the dots and moving the bow in set directions required a disclipine that I just don't have, so the experience was short and sweet.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Fudge
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I did, briefly.
I was given a metal flute, and had a lot of fun trying to play classical and baroque stuff, but, not having had any training it was a bit beyond my abilities (Irish music is beyond my ability much of the time).
When I moved to this village, I did a couple of bits of playing for local drama groups, just simple incidental music stuff. After one of these I was approached by a lady who said she played violin in an amateur string quartet and why didn't I come and join them and we could do some flute quartets?
I said that I didnt think my playing was up to it, but she just took this for false modesty and badgered away at me until I finally agreed to come along and give it a go.
We met up at the viola player's house (The cellist was coming over from Wantage, where she played in the Wantage Symphony Orchestra). The first thing I noticed was that I was the only one with a bag of tinnies. Basically the format of the evening was, play/practice for an hour and a half, then stop for tea and biscuits, then play some more.
When I asked if they finished in time for last orders at the Barleycorn (which was opposite the house) they looked at me with blank incomprehension.
They gave me some music for Mozart Flute Quartets and we decided to start on the one in D.
It was enormous fun! Trying to count the bars going by in the bits you weren't playing and coming in at the right time proved not to be quite as difficult as I had feared. We got through the evening without falling out, and, I have to say, I don't think I was the actually the weakest link there(!) They were thrilled to be playing with a flutist, and obviously thought they'd made a bit of a find, and packed me off with the dots to practise and reconvene a week later.
Over the next few weeks we made sometimes painful progress through all four Quartets - some were more manageable than others - and everyone was pleased, and on one occasion we even packed up early and went down the pub for last orders.
Then one week the cellist arrived brandishing some new music - We must try this! She cried - I love it, it's Beethovens Serenade for flute!
Buoyed up by my semblance of success with the Mozart, I agreed that it was indeed a fine piece of music, and snatched the score from her excited grasp.
When I looked at it, my eyes popped out of my head!
It was all octave jumps and crazy archipeligos, or whatever they are called.
I said I'd have to take it home and try to run through the flute part first.
Try as I might, I could not get my fingers and lips round this stuff, so I went back next week, a little crestfallen, and said that it was a bit beyond me, and that we should go back to the Mozart, or maybe back further to Pergolesi or someone like that. No, No, they cried, lets at least try it! You can do it!
So we played through it. When we got to the bits I couldn't manage I plyed notes I thought sounded good. We made it all the way through, and they thought it was wonderful. I told you you could do it! They exclaimed.
Next week we tried it again. I must say it sounded quite good (well, interesting), and they obviously had no idea that I wasn't playing it as written. At the end of the evening the Cello player announced that we should put on a little recital in Wantage as part of some fund-aising event she was involved in.
I laughed at her (to tell you the honest truth I was mostly worried about the rather scratchy fiddler). We can't do that, I said, what if someone listening actually knows the piece well?
What do you mean? They chirped.
Well, I said, I'm not exactly playing it the way it's written.
They looked bewildered.
But where did you get the music you're playing? They asked.
Well, I explained, On the hard bits I improvise something that fits in with what you're playing and sounds a bit like what Beethoven intended, after all, I do know the piece of music quite well.
They couldn't believe this and thought I was joking, after all, it sounded great to them, it must be right.
Mustn't it?
No, I said, but it's all in the right key and nothing jars! It sounds ok, doesn't it?
They seemed very disturbed by this revelation. Particularly the rather serious lady from the Wantage Symphony Orchestra.
We didn't go to the Barleycorn that night.
And although I see the fiddler, and the viola player around the village quite a lot, the subject of getting back together never actually comes up ...
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Ottery
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Ottery, xcellent story, favourite bit "tinnies at a tea party"!!
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Fudge
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I didn't and don't know anyone who did. I did it the normal way round.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Dow
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I used to mix with classical musicians but nowadays I wouldn't be seen dead with one. They wear cardigans and talk posh and they're a bit dirty.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Dow
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I don't wear cardigans - and all of the classical musicians that I know are clean - except when we've been playing frisbee or soccer . . . I am a classical musician and I'm also a folk musician - it should be noted that I play classically on the piano and the folk stuff on the other instruments. I did two years of classical violin lessons - not fun for me - and then one semester of orchestra which might have been fun if they hadn't insisted on playing a few fiddle tunes like they were classical pieces. I'm thinking of taking classical lessons again just to work on technique especially since they're covered by government money while I'm in college.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by musicfan
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I wear a cardigan, and play slow airs, which to me are classical.
Actually slow classical bits are like slow airs and easy enough to play, until you hit the sudden mad bits. A bit like the rise in "Limerick's Lament". The mad bit I mean.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I'm a pro violinist who also plays Irish music...I don't think I or many of my classical collegues have ever completed a gig in the honest belief that we had played "exactly what was written"!Having the freedom to improvise is a lot less creatively frustrating than the white noise that goes on in the back of a symphony orchestra..And about those cardigans..it can get very chilly in some of those churches we have to do concerts in.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by oh fiddle it
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
" I found reading music from the dots and moving the bow in set directions required a disclipine that I just don't have"
Hot tip for you, you don't have to do that. I spent about half of today playing Bach by ear as I damned well pleased.
Oddly enough I spent much of the rest of the day playing fiddle tunes in fairly strict fashion from the dots, just to start getting the tunes fixed in my head before I turn them into music at some later date.
You don't have to do things the way "they" say. If you like the music, play the damned music, any way you damned please.
Damn the "Nazis" and full speed ahead!
KFG
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by KFG
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Some things are best left unchanged; would someone really think they could change Beethoven's Ninth Symphony for the better? KFG, did you change the notes to the Bach or just the style? I don't consider myself good enough to alter the greats.
P.S. Conan, I haven't heard anyone mention Max Escher in a long time (maybe everyone's too busy re-sketching his works)--the engagement's back on.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by dmarie
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I started out as a music scholar at Chetham's in Manchester but soon found out that the tyranny of the dots was not for me. In my mid teens I discovered trad Irish and bluegrass (sorry Tanya) and from that moment on there was no looking back; so the antithesis to the original post really. Sorry.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
"KFG, did you change the notes to the Bach or just the style?"
How the hell should I know? I told you, I didn't look at the notes. I had music in my head. Music that I've never played before. I made it come out of the fiddle. It sounded pretty good to me. I don't care how it would have sounded to Bach. He's, like, dead and s***.
We have it on pretty authority though that Bach was a pretty good fiddler and improviser. One of his favorite things to do was alter the notes of other greats. It's called "Variations on a Theme." There's nothing wrong with it. Not even on themes by "The Greats." He might well have said to me, "Hey, play that bit again," and used it later himself. Composers do that you know. The Greatest of the Greats have always freely admited that they "steal" like sons of bitches. Only hacks and "artistes" think they're being "original."
I frail Beethoven's Ninth on the five string banjo, as I see fit. I think Beethoven would have liked it just fine. Even if he could have heard it. The last classical pianist who I played it for thought it was a hoot.
For goodness sake, it's all just music, not Holy Writ.
Holy Writ isn't even Holy Writ for that matter.
"I haven't heard anyone mention Max Escher in a long time"
A day hardly goes by that I don't hear his name. I certainly see his works all over the place. Physicists and mathematicians love him to pieces.
KFG
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by KFG
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I know of a few people around home that have gone from traditional to classical, and this isn't a case of overextending oneself musically. These are a few musicians extremely proficient at Irish music who simply wanted to expand themselves musically. Seriously doubt they have any plans of completely going to the other side, but I guess this reverse process can happen, at least to some degree.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Jason G
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
My, my, my. Such an outburst. I do stand chastised.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by dmarie
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
KFG - yeah, Bach, Vivaldi and all the rest of that marvellous crew weren't exactly famous for specifying bowing, or very much in the way of phrasing or dynamics beyond basic loud and soft.. Any edition of Bach's or Vivaldi's violin or cello works which gives phrasing, and detailed bowing and dynamics, and sometimes even fingering (which imho is an insult to anyone capable of playing that music), is invariably by some modern guy who believes in all sincerity that is the ONLY way to play it (and also that a new edition of Bach etc is a good way to make some money). The best way to learn to play such music is to listen to it being played by experts in the period, lots and lots, and go and get an urtext edition (as written by Bach or Vivaldi, with no modern messing around with the music) and do likewise.
Some years ago, John Lill the concert pianist, was ajudicating at the Leeds Piano Festival (one of the world's premier classical competitions), and during a break in the proceedings he wandered into a pub nearby to find himself in the middle of a pub pianist competition. He said in a radio interview I heard later something to the effect that this was one of the most enjoyable music experiences he'd ever had, and that one or two of those pub pianists had the technique to have appeared in the Leeds competition with no questions asked.
Ottery, that was a wonderful story about your improvising in a Beethoven flute quartet! Consider yourself an honorary member of the MFU (Music Faker's Union), which most self-respecting orchestral players are members of!
Remember that the one basic thing that distinguishes Irish (and other folk music) from classical music is that Irish music doesn't wear a bow tie and tails.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by lazyhound
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I live for the day I can afford to go to a live show of bb playing Beethoven's suite for string quartet and bodhran.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by wormdiet
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I thought convention was that BB = Bliss and bb = Bridie, though she has been a bit absent of late. His greatness does after all deserve capitals!
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Donough
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
An interesting thread in v.com on the subject of faking...
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by thier1754
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
It WOULD help if I pasted in the link, wouldn't it? I do that 'way too often...Sorry! http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?ID=3929
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by thier1754
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Conan's mention of Escher was more than just a mention -- it was f---ing clever.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by cuchulain54
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I know a girl trained in diddley by her loving father, and then denouncing the tradition and embracing the classical. The effects are, ekhm, stunning. Literally. Schubert romantic pieces squeezed out of a fiddle with a characteristic heavy sound of Donegal. Makes your imagination go wild.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by EastPole
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
J.S. Bach & O'Carolyn were just 15 years apart in age.... two of my favorite composers. I'll bet they hang out together on the other side sometimes for tea & whatnot.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by nonesuch
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
. . . . . I expect they spend whole days decomposing together!
I s'pose the classical conversion option rather tends to depend on what instrument you play. There's not much call for whistles or banjos in classical music - just like there's not much call for bodhrans in diddly music.
(now running for cover)
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I went with a friend to a WAMO (West Australian Mandolin Orchestra) practice once. It looked like fun. I could do that, I thought.
Well, not fun exactly, but an absorbing hobby.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Bren
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
West Australian Mandolin Orchestra?
Enlighten us. Our perception over here is that the population of Western Australia is about 3,500, of whome 3,450 are rough tough sheep wranglers, and the other 500 are bar floozies. Just how many of these people actually play in anything so prissy and girlie as a Mandolin Orchestra?
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Sorry about the arithmetic. I think it communicates the issue in hand, regardless of the technical inaccuracies.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Ottery's posting reminds me painfully of one of my worst ever lifetime experiences when I was persuaded against all good sense to play my banjo with an amateur orchestra. I was having great fun at the time playing trad jazz with a sousaphone player (splendid instrument - any use in ITM?) and a trumpet player. Someone from the orchestra was scouting for a banjo player to play in a Kurt Weill piece, and my name was mentioned. I was told it was a piece of cake - dead simple, just twang away in the right places, but they lied. I was so hopelessly out of my depth I wanted the floor to open up and rescue me. The main problem was counting all the rest bars, and then coming in frantically plucking away at the right moment. I did not succeed. I was playing my Windsor Zither banjo, which in recent years has been employed mainly as a wall decoration.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by RichardB
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Take it over to cuchulain54's thread, it could be handy in the fighting there.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~fameweb/wamo/main.htm
WAMO's about 60% bar floozies and 40% rough tough sheep wranglers. Don't call them prissy ... mate. Or I'll get Big "Dr. Axe" Donough on to you.
All right?
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Bren
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Dmarie, I'm so glad you've come to your senses. Who cares what the public might say - will you come with me over the mountain? :¬)
Cx
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I started out with trad voice and whistle, then went classical for about 15 years, and now I'm swinging back again towards the trad. Although classical makes my money, and I have no intention of leaving my choir...
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by tumeltyni
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
I have done both for more than 30 years as a singer, and now that I'm less dangerous on the mandolin I'm thinking of branching out from ITM into a little Corelli.
I find that each has its own strict discipline. The great virtue of trad music is that I don't have to read a monomaniac conductor's mind. The great virtue of the classical stuff is that most of the tune is on the page.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Charmion
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Conan, I'm afraid the embarrassment would be too great for you, for when I play Bach partitas on the violin or Vivaldi mandolin concertoes, I (gulp) actually play the notes they so carefully crafted and wrote down with such care. The shock of this confession may be too much; please (sob) don't hate me!
# Posted on November 4th 2005 by dmarie
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
P.S. Conan--I, too, thought your Escher line was, as previously stated, f---ing clever.
# Posted on November 4th 2005 by dmarie
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
dmarie,
If Beethoven was serious about wanting me to play his wretched Flute Sonata, he shouldn't have written notes so far above the stave that I needed a calculator to work out what they were, and then an embouchure as tiny and tight as a watervole's bottom to play them!
# Posted on November 4th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Beethoven did have a sadistic streak, didn't he? As did Bach and Paganini--but the fact that they and their contemporaries could play the compositions; well, there you have it.
# Posted on November 4th 2005 by dmarie
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Only jazz piano, I'm fed up with up the classical stuff on the piano. I had 15 years of that in Dublin's RIAM (Eire) and finished all the exams. I wouldn't teach it either....Cynical eh?
# Posted on November 4th 2005 by flauta dolce
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
So, dmarie, basically you're saying I'm crap?
# Posted on November 4th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Not much crap could could come out of a tight little watervole's bottom, so I'm sure dmarie didn't mean that, Ottery.
# Posted on November 4th 2005 by thier1754
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
"Monomaniac conductors" do have their uses. At my chamber orchestra rehearsal a few days ago a few bars played by the second violins fell apart in a big way. The conductor pointed out that it was simple grade 3 dots but they were playing it like they were struggling grade 2 players. They immediately smartened up their act after that comment. Btw, all the players are at least grade 8 (and some are ex-pros), and our conductor isn't just a baton waver; he's a top line violin soloist and teacher who has done his time in a rock band in his teens; and is a very nice guy indeed.
# Posted on November 4th 2005 by lazyhound
Re: Does anyone swing the other way?
Ottery, anyone with the chutzpa to even attempt that wretched sonata is definitely not crap.
# Posted on November 5th 2005 by dmarie