Need help. I actually play with a piezo pick up I put in the f hole of my fiddle conected to a preamp. I'm having some problems in the high register. Now I'm thinking in buying an amplified bridge or some of these pick ups to put in the bridge. Can I use my preamp with one of these? any experience or advise? the "amplified bridge" , how it change the soud when playing unpluged?
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There are two questions you need to consider before getting amplification for a fiddle. The first is: how loud do you need to be? And the second is: Do you still want a good sound acoustically?
The best option by far, is to stand under a good microphone. Try this first.
Next, anything you stick to your fiddle anywhere will alter the sound of it, but no more so than sticking something to the bridge. But bridge pickups give the highest levels, so much in fact that you may not need a preamp. What you will need though is a decent graphic equalizer.
But have you tried a decent graphic equalizer with your piezo?
well, I really need to sound loud and clear. I play in a band with a mandolin and a guitar. I've tried with michrophones. I like the sound but always there are problems. Last I've tried was a n equalizer but I couldn't make it work properly with high sounds. And yes, I want to sound good acousticaly.
Bridge "pickuped" makers says it doesnt change "so much" the fiddle sound. The question is: Is it right? you think, pleople who have tried it, tath the sound chane is aceptable?
thank for your answers.
Pick up the world has and under-the-foot of the bridge pick up that's pretty good. L.R. Baggs also has a very popular one. They should work with the preamp you have. I don't care for the pick-ups that clip to the bridge because it's like putting a mute on if you were to play acoustically. Also on the bridge pickups might give you more extraneous bow noise than you want.
By far my favorite though, is the Schertler DYN. It’s a mic that sticks on the back (or front) of the fiddle with putty. It’s excellent on its own with out a pre-amp and very powerful with.
Heya! While I don't play the fiddel in our band (yet) our fiddle player has one of those pickups that you put in the scrollwork of the standard bridge. It sound FANTASTIC both acoustically and with the sound system. She runs through a pre-amp as well. I'll get the exact name of her pickup, and post it here. Otherwise, the link given above would be my best bet.
Some of the following might be outdated, but in my experience:
Having to stand under a microphone--constantly directly under it, if the band is loud--for a long time can give you a godawful crick in your neck.
Violin bridges with built-in pickups are thicker, so they reduce acoustic volume a bit. The same thing happens with a pickup that clamps onto the bridge. I have a Fishman pickup that slips into the slot at the side (not all bridges have the right scrollwork for this) that works pretty well, for a piezo, and has been pretty feedback-free for rock-band gigs.
Pickups that stick on with putty can fall off (maybe they've improved the putty in recent years--but if it's too sticky, it might harm the finish....)
Sean Smyth has used a system that combines a soundpost pickup and a microphone attached to the fiddle. Must be expensive, and apparently requires two cables.
I had a Baggs pick-up/bridge for a while and found that the bridge was far too thick, and muted the acoustic sound. The solution was to get my repairer to remove the pick-up and put it into a standard fiddle bridge. The other thing I did was to go into a studio and work with an engineer to find descent settings on my pre-amp. This has saved heaps of time at sound checks, espessially at festivals, and has earned many compliments from soundmen at the ease of getting a good sound out of my fiddle/guitar/mandolin. I run all three instruments through a Roland GT-6 guitar effects procesor, and so only need one channel for all three. It has a good parametric EQ system, plus you can control the reverb etc that you want. Just tell the engineer to run your channel flat and dry and you control the rest. That being said, the VERY best sound has always been with a good quality mic, but unfortunatly that has proved impractical in a lot of situations I've had to play.
That's a god posting Don. You know that the best sound is a good mike on a mike stand. And, you know the other stuff too.
Years ago now, before digital live desks, I was in a band where I had to play very very loud. I use a Barcus Berry bridge pick up that just would not feed back ever. Though it did deaden the acoustic sound of my fiddle.
However, I agree that a good guitar effects processor is the answer. I had many settings that were subtly different that I could swap between with the foot pedals. Some had a longer delays and a bigger reverbs for playing slow, others were almost dry for playing tunes. I also had different parametric EQ settings for tunes that were played predominantly on different strings, again, scrolling through them with the pedals. This is relevant to the original question where the poster has problems with "the higher register". Though I remember that simply moving the position of the pick up just half a millimeter or so across the bridge would fix this
The addition I had, though, was a really good and powerful combo. A 250W Peavy Reno. It allowed me the options of giving the out front a line out if they were clued up enough and had time to deal with it, or to simply stick a mike in front of it, like they are used to dealing with electric guitar players. This was the preferred method for festivals when you had little or no sound check time.
Good point Michael. Having control of your onstage sound is very important, especially if you are constantly playing through strange PAs. Monitor sounds can vary enormously, especially at festivals, and your fiddle can go from sounding like a Chicken caught on barbwire, to the mating call of a Baboon, neither of which is ideal for good performance. I think the main reason for this is that most PA operaters EQ the monitors for loud, rock style vocals, with tons of mid range frequency boosts, so that a vocal can cut through a loud metal band. As a result, most acoustic instruments become unplayable. The more you can control the sound you are hearing, the better you are able to focus on playing, and the happier everybody is.
A word of warning. If only one person is playing through an on stage amp, and everyone else is going through the monitors, it can lead to a very un-balanced onstage sound. If the band you are playing with is all acoustic, and you get to use the same PA for most of your gigs, then it is worth paying a good engineer to have a session with you and the band, and get your on-stage sound as good as you can. Get them to teach you how your pre-amp works, and what to listen for. Otherwise, your $5,000 dollar instrument ends up mostly sounding like 50 cents worth of plastic.
Hey, fair play to you titch. Anyone who is activly trying to solve this problem has my support. May your enterprise prosper, and I'll certainly look at those fiddles the first time I come across them.
Thanks you all. I'm still a bit counfused but it has been a useful discussion. At last I think I'm goirg to buy a violinissimo pick up. It is really three in one. Two under the bridge feet and other in a slot of the bridge.
@ llig leahcim: In 1983 I started with a Barcus-Berry bridge, too. I played it till 2002. I never needed additional electronics – just my mid-70ies VOX AC 30 and a delay stomp box. The lineup of my band was voice / e-violin, e-viola, bass guitar and drums. We were really loud (we loved a slight overdrive from the amps) and I almost never had feedback problems. http://www.uli-boesking.de/verg_u3.htm
I never found out why so many electric violin players have problems with their sound, need thousands of bucks worth of EQs and efx. A playable instrument + fine PU + good amp should do it! – My first transducers were bad & cheap & sounded like that – same with amps. So I tried around a lot till I found my combination. An electrified violin should sound good directly through a PA, too. I agree that technicians who have no idea of bowed strings can make you sound like a device for cutting eggs – but for these occasions I always used a DI box with hi- and lo-cut filters.
With acoustic projects I had the problems described above: the B-B- bridge muted the acoustic sound of my fine violin. So a few years ago I changed to a magnetic system I develloped with an audio technician friend. It is fully adjustible (moving the coil elements changes loudness and sound of the individual strings) and has no contact to vibrating parts of the instrument. http://www.uli-boesking.de/rebo/
I'm with Michael re the best fiddle sound from a decent mic, though some of the electric fiddles don't sound too bad these days. A fiddle player I play with prefers to use the old rock industry standard vocal mic i.e. a Sure SM58. I believe it's the mic of preference for many fiddle players, and is a bit warmer than the SM57. It is of course, a dynamic mic, so you have to be reasonably close - but the fiddle sound through the PA is generally excellent.
We rarely have feedback problems with the fiddle - it's very much more of a problem micing my guitar, I can assure you of that! (although we never use foldback - which will obviously reduce that problem).
fiddle pickup
fiddle pickup
Need help. I actually play with a piezo pick up I put in the f hole of my fiddle conected to a preamp. I'm having some problems in the high register. Now I'm thinking in buying an amplified bridge or some of these pick ups to put in the bridge. Can I use my preamp with one of these? any experience or advise? the "amplified bridge" , how it change the soud when playing unpluged?
........................
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by fer
Re: fiddle pickup
There are two questions you need to consider before getting amplification for a fiddle. The first is: how loud do you need to be? And the second is: Do you still want a good sound acoustically?
The best option by far, is to stand under a good microphone. Try this first.
Next, anything you stick to your fiddle anywhere will alter the sound of it, but no more so than sticking something to the bridge. But bridge pickups give the highest levels, so much in fact that you may not need a preamp. What you will need though is a decent graphic equalizer.
But have you tried a decent graphic equalizer with your piezo?
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: fiddle pickup
well, I really need to sound loud and clear. I play in a band with a mandolin and a guitar. I've tried with michrophones. I like the sound but always there are problems. Last I've tried was a n equalizer but I couldn't make it work properly with high sounds. And yes, I want to sound good acousticaly.
Bridge "pickuped" makers says it doesnt change "so much" the fiddle sound. The question is: Is it right? you think, pleople who have tried it, tath the sound chane is aceptable?
thank for your answers.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by fer
Re: fiddle pickup
Pick up the world has and under-the-foot of the bridge pick up that's pretty good. L.R. Baggs also has a very popular one. They should work with the preamp you have. I don't care for the pick-ups that clip to the bridge because it's like putting a mute on if you were to play acoustically. Also on the bridge pickups might give you more extraneous bow noise than you want.
By far my favorite though, is the Schertler DYN. It’s a mic that sticks on the back (or front) of the fiddle with putty. It’s excellent on its own with out a pre-amp and very powerful with.
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by iampeterfonda
Re: fiddle pickup
Heya! While I don't play the fiddel in our band (yet) our fiddle player has one of those pickups that you put in the scrollwork of the standard bridge. It sound FANTASTIC both acoustically and with the sound system. She runs through a pre-amp as well. I'll get the exact name of her pickup, and post it here. Otherwise, the link given above would be my best bet.
Hope this helps!
-P
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by Philem
Re: fiddle pickup
Some of the following might be outdated, but in my experience:
Having to stand under a microphone--constantly directly under it, if the band is loud--for a long time can give you a godawful crick in your neck.
Violin bridges with built-in pickups are thicker, so they reduce acoustic volume a bit. The same thing happens with a pickup that clamps onto the bridge. I have a Fishman pickup that slips into the slot at the side (not all bridges have the right scrollwork for this) that works pretty well, for a piezo, and has been pretty feedback-free for rock-band gigs.
Pickups that stick on with putty can fall off (maybe they've improved the putty in recent years--but if it's too sticky, it might harm the finish....)
Sean Smyth has used a system that combines a soundpost pickup and a microphone attached to the fiddle. Must be expensive, and apparently requires two cables.
See also
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/7723/comments#comment165517
# Posted on November 2nd 2005 by mickray
Re: fiddle pickup
I had a Baggs pick-up/bridge for a while and found that the bridge was far too thick, and muted the acoustic sound. The solution was to get my repairer to remove the pick-up and put it into a standard fiddle bridge. The other thing I did was to go into a studio and work with an engineer to find descent settings on my pre-amp. This has saved heaps of time at sound checks, espessially at festivals, and has earned many compliments from soundmen at the ease of getting a good sound out of my fiddle/guitar/mandolin. I run all three instruments through a Roland GT-6 guitar effects procesor, and so only need one channel for all three. It has a good parametric EQ system, plus you can control the reverb etc that you want. Just tell the engineer to run your channel flat and dry and you control the rest. That being said, the VERY best sound has always been with a good quality mic, but unfortunatly that has proved impractical in a lot of situations I've had to play.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by woops
Re: fiddle pickup
That's a god posting Don. You know that the best sound is a good mike on a mike stand. And, you know the other stuff too.
Years ago now, before digital live desks, I was in a band where I had to play very very loud. I use a Barcus Berry bridge pick up that just would not feed back ever. Though it did deaden the acoustic sound of my fiddle.
However, I agree that a good guitar effects processor is the answer. I had many settings that were subtly different that I could swap between with the foot pedals. Some had a longer delays and a bigger reverbs for playing slow, others were almost dry for playing tunes. I also had different parametric EQ settings for tunes that were played predominantly on different strings, again, scrolling through them with the pedals. This is relevant to the original question where the poster has problems with "the higher register". Though I remember that simply moving the position of the pick up just half a millimeter or so across the bridge would fix this
The addition I had, though, was a really good and powerful combo. A 250W Peavy Reno. It allowed me the options of giving the out front a line out if they were clued up enough and had time to deal with it, or to simply stick a mike in front of it, like they are used to dealing with electric guitar players. This was the preferred method for festivals when you had little or no sound check time.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: fiddle pickup
Good point Michael. Having control of your onstage sound is very important, especially if you are constantly playing through strange PAs. Monitor sounds can vary enormously, especially at festivals, and your fiddle can go from sounding like a Chicken caught on barbwire, to the mating call of a Baboon, neither of which is ideal for good performance. I think the main reason for this is that most PA operaters EQ the monitors for loud, rock style vocals, with tons of mid range frequency boosts, so that a vocal can cut through a loud metal band. As a result, most acoustic instruments become unplayable. The more you can control the sound you are hearing, the better you are able to focus on playing, and the happier everybody is.
A word of warning. If only one person is playing through an on stage amp, and everyone else is going through the monitors, it can lead to a very un-balanced onstage sound. If the band you are playing with is all acoustic, and you get to use the same PA for most of your gigs, then it is worth paying a good engineer to have a session with you and the band, and get your on-stage sound as good as you can. Get them to teach you how your pre-amp works, and what to listen for. Otherwise, your $5,000 dollar instrument ends up mostly sounding like 50 cents worth of plastic.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by woops
Re: fiddle pickup
Try my FAQ page, I endeavour to answer ALL these questions.
http://www.sonicviolins.co.uk/FAQs.asp
Every player has different needs, there are many more bad solutions to amplified fiddle than well engineered systems.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by Titch {=/=}===++
Re: fiddle pickup
Hey, fair play to you titch. Anyone who is activly trying to solve this problem has my support. May your enterprise prosper, and I'll certainly look at those fiddles the first time I come across them.
# Posted on November 3rd 2005 by woops
Re: fiddle pickup
Thanks you all. I'm still a bit counfused but it has been a useful discussion. At last I think I'm goirg to buy a violinissimo pick up. It is really three in one. Two under the bridge feet and other in a slot of the bridge.
# Posted on November 4th 2005 by fer
Re: fiddle pickup
Next is a good preamp and a equalizer. sessioners of the north pole, ask Santa to read my letters.
# Posted on November 4th 2005 by fer
Re: fiddle pickup
@ llig leahcim: In 1983 I started with a Barcus-Berry bridge, too. I played it till 2002. I never needed additional electronics – just my mid-70ies VOX AC 30 and a delay stomp box. The lineup of my band was voice / e-violin, e-viola, bass guitar and drums. We were really loud (we loved a slight overdrive from the amps) and I almost never had feedback problems.
http://www.uli-boesking.de/verg_u3.htm
I never found out why so many electric violin players have problems with their sound, need thousands of bucks worth of EQs and efx. A playable instrument + fine PU + good amp should do it! – My first transducers were bad & cheap & sounded like that – same with amps. So I tried around a lot till I found my combination. An electrified violin should sound good directly through a PA, too. I agree that technicians who have no idea of bowed strings can make you sound like a device for cutting eggs – but for these occasions I always used a DI box with hi- and lo-cut filters.
With acoustic projects I had the problems described above: the B-B- bridge muted the acoustic sound of my fine violin. So a few years ago I changed to a magnetic system I develloped with an audio technician friend. It is fully adjustible (moving the coil elements changes loudness and sound of the individual strings) and has no contact to vibrating parts of the instrument.
http://www.uli-boesking.de/rebo/
# Posted on January 7th 2007 by UlisesDos
Re: fiddle pickup
I'm with Michael re the best fiddle sound from a decent mic, though some of the electric fiddles don't sound too bad these days. A fiddle player I play with prefers to use the old rock industry standard vocal mic i.e. a Sure SM58. I believe it's the mic of preference for many fiddle players, and is a bit warmer than the SM57. It is of course, a dynamic mic, so you have to be reasonably close - but the fiddle sound through the PA is generally excellent.
We rarely have feedback problems with the fiddle - it's very much more of a problem micing my guitar, I can assure you of that! (although we never use foldback - which will obviously reduce that problem).
# Posted on January 7th 2007 by Ron P