Well, that's kind of up to the person submitting the tune. Anyone can add in chords to the ABC notation just by putting them in quotes.
Why not get the ball rolling, Bernard? You could submit a tune complete with chords. If you're not sure about how to do it, you can click on "help" when you're submitting a tune or you can check out the "Links" section of the site for info on ABC notation.
Hmmm. I dunno...I've purposefully not put any guitar chords in, myself, except for when I am unsure of the actual key of the thing (which is most of the time, I think I've mentioned before that I'm not particularly swift with key signatures) and I want Jeremy to check it for me. I guess that's because one of my teachers is Matt Heaton, the guitar player, and he hates most of the chords you usually find on tunes and feels that a guitar player should really figure out his own take on chords (my husband also takes guitar from Matt). So I'm probably a little oversensitive to that.
Any other takes? On the opposite side of that, John Carr (fiddler in Ft. Collins) was telling me about a player who HATED it when his guitar players used what he called "small" chords -- he wanted the BIG, OPEN chords, and he'd yell at accompanists in the middle of the tune if they didn't give him those "big" chords... Does anyone else have strong feelings about basic chords (if basic is the right word) as opposed to fancy chords?
First off, I think anyone who yells in the middle of a tune or otherwise probably knows the names of a lot of polkas. When this happens I promptly pack up my stuff & head to the bar (or home).
I like both small & big chords alternatively in the same tune. I really like it when a guitarist goes a step further & uses the correct voicings. There's no cut & dry way of learning this outside of sitting down with the tune, learn it through. Then try to see where the chords fit & then try to keep a melody note in the highest voice of the chord. If a big chord fits on a big note then by all means do it.
A lot of players prefer DADGAD it's not my favorite, it's all 5ths & octaves & sounds washed out in the long run. It also seems that DADGAD tuned guitarists will use the same voicings regardless of where the melody is going. It's strong point is that it works well when trying to fill the sound with a bunch of musicians in a session. I prefer standard (EADGBE) for one on one preformances, it offers more voicings & more concise chords. Then again I'll take a good piano player over any guitarist, so I'm in the modern minority.
Many guitarists feel that they are expected to know & be able to back up every tune. Like any other instrument backers should go home & learn the tune & all its ins & outs. Just like melody players, there's nothing wrong with sitting & learning. The best weapon is a tape recorder, the music can be recorded than brought home to learn it. Instead of hitting clams & feeling embarassed.
Well, certainly one should take the time to study as many tunes as possible & come up with appropriate acompaniments, but there's a lot to be said for spontaneity - some truly magical things can happen on the spur of the moment. Also, once you get the hang of it, it's not too hard to at least come up with chords that sound good, even if they aren't in the perfect inversion for the particular note. But c'mon, how many people are going to be enough of an a$$hole (sorry to insult your teacher, Z!) to make a big scene about it in the middle of what's supposed to be a good time? For that matter, how many are even going to notice? Anyone who yells at me at a session (unless I've done something colossally stupid and inappropriate) is getting the finger and the back of my head.
Well, the guy was very old, and very blind. So most people give him a break. *grin* He's not my teacher, and he plays a different kind of music from me anyway. But it was a funny story nonetheless. John Carr's imitation of him yelling "Big chords! Big chords!" is priceless; we were all falling about the floor.
Matt Heaton, for instance, believes that you should just play the chord that you think sounds right. If you listen to enough music, he says, eventually you'll make you're own decisions as to what "right" is. Like, I know there's some people who don't care for what Zan McLeod, Steve Cooney, or John Doyle do, but they're all very good players.
I can hardly wait to be an old lady and be able to use that as an excuse. Heh.
I don't actually know that I have a preference for or against DADGAD tunings, although most people I know like Brad who don't like it give the exact same reasons.
DADGAD has its place, but also limitations - I think it makes it too easy to fall into a rut. Very few players have explored it beyond the "drone" aspect. Try DADGAE for an interesting variation.
Duane Allman (I know, I know...) used its cousin, Vestapol tuning, to great advantage. Jimmy Page (leave it alone) used a C6 tuning (CACGCE) on "Bron Yr Aur", which is a very nice little guitar solo.
Richard Thompson (my hero!) does things with DADGAD (and a million other tunings) that are not to be believed (I've seen him capo only the three treble strings for a tune!).
I've used some pretty weird tunings for occasional arrangements, but I mostly stick to standard.
I just "heard" the comment about "how many are going to notice", Jeff -- actually, lots. When I was in Ireland, I noted that a great many of the musicians paid a LOT of attention to what guitarists were doing. (And bodhran players, too.) If the guitarist was doing something they liked, they were either highly complimentary or started slagging them about it. I liked that they didn't just ignore them.
Of course, the flip side was that if the guitarist or bodhran player was disapproved of, they totally ignored them, but I still like to give them points for being appreciative.
Richard Thompson is SUCH a great guitarist. Two weeks ago, I was for some reason out and about an awful lot. I heard no less than FIVE covers of "Vincent" that weekend, it was weird. I finally went home and listened to Thompson doing it (some of the versions weren't *quite* up to his standard...)
Have you ever noticed the little "triplet" thing he does right before the vocals start? It gives me chills - I've never heard ANYONE get that right! I've seen him live, and he plays "Feel So Good" solo, playing ALL the band parts - and singing. It was hard not to jump into the isle and start going, "I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!"
I didn't think the guitarists at sessions went totally unnoticed, I just doubted that most folks noticed specific chord inversions. If they do, that's a good thing!
I think people DO notice the chord inversions. I do, although sometimes I don't really know what it is I'm hearing. It's fun to whoop when somebody does something nice like that, I think.
When I somebody playing chords which don't seem to fit, or backing in what seems to be the wrong key, I wonder, is it just me? Does my classical/pop background mean that I have a different perception of what sounds harmonious to that of somebody with a background in the Irish tradition?
Kind of like asking, how long is a piece of string!
But you're not the only one who wonders, David. I have a very good player friend who just plain doesn't care for a certain famous guitar player's choices of chords and such. I can't figure it out, frankly. I listen, and I can't hear anything wrong with his choices. They're not particularly adventurous, maybe, but they seem just fine, more than fine, to me.
Very very occasionally, I find his own chord choices a little too adventurous for me, a little distracting. But he's SUCH a good player. And I've a feeling that the longer I listen to him, the more used to that kind of sound I get.
Maybe one of us with more background in harmony theory could enlighten us?
Guitar Chords
Guitar Chords
How about some guitar Chords for our back -ups.
# Posted on September 2nd 2001 by Bernard Farrell
Re: Guitar Chords
Well, that's kind of up to the person submitting the tune. Anyone can add in chords to the ABC notation just by putting them in quotes.
Why not get the ball rolling, Bernard? You could submit a tune complete with chords. If you're not sure about how to do it, you can click on "help" when you're submitting a tune or you can check out the "Links" section of the site for info on ABC notation.
# Posted on September 2nd 2001 by Jeremy
Re: Guitar Chords
Hmmm. I dunno...I've purposefully not put any guitar chords in, myself, except for when I am unsure of the actual key of the thing (which is most of the time, I think I've mentioned before that I'm not particularly swift with key signatures) and I want Jeremy to check it for me. I guess that's because one of my teachers is Matt Heaton, the guitar player, and he hates most of the chords you usually find on tunes and feels that a guitar player should really figure out his own take on chords (my husband also takes guitar from Matt). So I'm probably a little oversensitive to that.
Any other takes? On the opposite side of that, John Carr (fiddler in Ft. Collins) was telling me about a player who HATED it when his guitar players used what he called "small" chords -- he wanted the BIG, OPEN chords, and he'd yell at accompanists in the middle of the tune if they didn't give him those "big" chords... Does anyone else have strong feelings about basic chords (if basic is the right word) as opposed to fancy chords?
Zina
# Posted on September 3rd 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Guitar Chords
First off, I think anyone who yells in the middle of a tune or otherwise probably knows the names of a lot of polkas. When this happens I promptly pack up my stuff & head to the bar (or home).
I like both small & big chords alternatively in the same tune. I really like it when a guitarist goes a step further & uses the correct voicings. There's no cut & dry way of learning this outside of sitting down with the tune, learn it through. Then try to see where the chords fit & then try to keep a melody note in the highest voice of the chord. If a big chord fits on a big note then by all means do it.
A lot of players prefer DADGAD it's not my favorite, it's all 5ths & octaves & sounds washed out in the long run. It also seems that DADGAD tuned guitarists will use the same voicings regardless of where the melody is going. It's strong point is that it works well when trying to fill the sound with a bunch of musicians in a session. I prefer standard (EADGBE) for one on one preformances, it offers more voicings & more concise chords. Then again I'll take a good piano player over any guitarist, so I'm in the modern minority.
Many guitarists feel that they are expected to know & be able to back up every tune. Like any other instrument backers should go home & learn the tune & all its ins & outs. Just like melody players, there's nothing wrong with sitting & learning. The best weapon is a tape recorder, the music can be recorded than brought home to learn it. Instead of hitting clams & feeling embarassed.
# Posted on September 3rd 2001 by Brad Maloney
Re: Guitar Chords
Well, certainly one should take the time to study as many tunes as possible & come up with appropriate acompaniments, but there's a lot to be said for spontaneity - some truly magical things can happen on the spur of the moment. Also, once you get the hang of it, it's not too hard to at least come up with chords that sound good, even if they aren't in the perfect inversion for the particular note. But c'mon, how many people are going to be enough of an a$$hole (sorry to insult your teacher, Z!) to make a big scene about it in the middle of what's supposed to be a good time? For that matter, how many are even going to notice? Anyone who yells at me at a session (unless I've done something colossally stupid and inappropriate) is getting the finger and the back of my head.
# Posted on September 3rd 2001 by JeffK627
Re: Guitar Chords
Well, the guy was very old, and very blind. So most people give him a break. *grin* He's not my teacher, and he plays a different kind of music from me anyway. But it was a funny story nonetheless. John Carr's imitation of him yelling "Big chords! Big chords!" is priceless; we were all falling about the floor.
Matt Heaton, for instance, believes that you should just play the chord that you think sounds right. If you listen to enough music, he says, eventually you'll make you're own decisions as to what "right" is. Like, I know there's some people who don't care for what Zan McLeod, Steve Cooney, or John Doyle do, but they're all very good players.
I can hardly wait to be an old lady and be able to use that as an excuse. Heh.
I don't actually know that I have a preference for or against DADGAD tunings, although most people I know like Brad who don't like it give the exact same reasons.
Zina
# Posted on September 3rd 2001 by Zina Lee
DADGAD
DADGAD has its place, but also limitations - I think it makes it too easy to fall into a rut. Very few players have explored it beyond the "drone" aspect. Try DADGAE for an interesting variation.
Duane Allman (I know, I know...) used its cousin, Vestapol tuning, to great advantage. Jimmy Page (leave it alone) used a C6 tuning (CACGCE) on "Bron Yr Aur", which is a very nice little guitar solo.
Richard Thompson (my hero!) does things with DADGAD (and a million other tunings) that are not to be believed (I've seen him capo only the three treble strings for a tune!).
I've used some pretty weird tunings for occasional arrangements, but I mostly stick to standard.
-Jeff
# Posted on September 4th 2001 by JeffK627
Re: Guitar Chords
I just "heard" the comment about "how many are going to notice", Jeff -- actually, lots. When I was in Ireland, I noted that a great many of the musicians paid a LOT of attention to what guitarists were doing. (And bodhran players, too.) If the guitarist was doing something they liked, they were either highly complimentary or started slagging them about it. I liked that they didn't just ignore them.
Of course, the flip side was that if the guitarist or bodhran player was disapproved of, they totally ignored them, but I still like to give them points for being appreciative.
Richard Thompson is SUCH a great guitarist. Two weeks ago, I was for some reason out and about an awful lot. I heard no less than FIVE covers of "Vincent" that weekend, it was weird. I finally went home and listened to Thompson doing it (some of the versions weren't *quite* up to his standard...)
Zina
# Posted on September 4th 2001 by Zina Lee
Richard Thompson
Have you ever noticed the little "triplet" thing he does right before the vocals start? It gives me chills - I've never heard ANYONE get that right! I've seen him live, and he plays "Feel So Good" solo, playing ALL the band parts - and singing. It was hard not to jump into the isle and start going, "I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!"
I didn't think the guitarists at sessions went totally unnoticed, I just doubted that most folks noticed specific chord inversions. If they do, that's a good thing!
# Posted on September 4th 2001 by JeffK627
Re: Guitar Chords
No, I never have -- I'll have to go listen now.
I think people DO notice the chord inversions. I do, although sometimes I don't really know what it is I'm hearing. It's fun to whoop when somebody does something nice like that, I think.
Zina
# Posted on September 4th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Guitar Chords
When I somebody playing chords which don't seem to fit, or backing in what seems to be the wrong key, I wonder, is it just me? Does my classical/pop background mean that I have a different perception of what sounds harmonious to that of somebody with a background in the Irish tradition?
# Posted on September 8th 2001 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: Guitar Chords
Kind of like asking, how long is a piece of string!
But you're not the only one who wonders, David. I have a very good player friend who just plain doesn't care for a certain famous guitar player's choices of chords and such. I can't figure it out, frankly. I listen, and I can't hear anything wrong with his choices. They're not particularly adventurous, maybe, but they seem just fine, more than fine, to me.
Very very occasionally, I find his own chord choices a little too adventurous for me, a little distracting. But he's SUCH a good player. And I've a feeling that the longer I listen to him, the more used to that kind of sound I get.
Maybe one of us with more background in harmony theory could enlighten us?
Zina
# Posted on September 8th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Guitar Chords
Thanks, Jeremy. Thought of it as soon as I finished typing.
# Posted on September 11th 2001 by Bernard Farrell