I bought my first Hammer Dulcimer last Xmas, & attended the 1st ever Irish Dulcimer Festival this summer, in Cork City. During the weekend, I heard various comments, often negative, about how the H. D. was viewed in sessions, & given the recent debates here, on Guitars in sessions, I wondered if any of you had an opinion. I, like most folk in Ireland, had never seen a H.D. in a session, until Cork, mainly because you could count the number of players in Ireland on one hand, maybe two. As I intend to learn enough to be able to play it in sessions, I would be really interested to know how other musicians view the presense of a H. D. in their own sessions. To kick this off, Barry Carroll, who is a magician on the instrument, is possibly the only person in Ireland who takes his out to sessions, in Dublin, & he finds the instrument sounds really well with Fiddles, Flutes, Whistles & Pipes, but clashes with Concertinas, Accordions, Banjos & Harps. Any personal experiences out there?
I remember hearing Jim Cizah play his in Belfast a while back at a session. It was a fiddle and flute sesh, like most up North. I thought it sounded terrific; I think that stemmed from a fascination with the sound when I first heard The Tímpan Reel on the Chieftains 5. Don't hold back, mate!
Ptarmigan, we have several threads on the subject -- do a search for more info.
I'm not usually crazy about HDs in a session, because a lot of times they muddy up the sound, unless the player is experienced in not letting the strings ring. It *can* be quite nice, though.
Ptarmigan, I was at the Cork Dulcimer Festival. You probably attended the workshop, 'Playing the Hammer Dulcimer in an Irish Session' - I was the mandolin and whistle player making up part of the "typical Irish session".
I am not a dulcimer player myself, but having been exposed to so much dulcimer playing at the festival, I feel I am qualified to make a few comments. Firstly, Dulcimers in numbers only work if you want a strictly dulcimer session - any other instrument will be rendered insignificant by their collective volume. To my ears, a dulcimer sounds best in combination with one or two other instruments. Whilst it has volume, its long sustain makes the notes of fast tunes indistinct, and in a large session its sound tends to come across as a discordant hum. In a smaller combination, e.g dulcimer and pipes, dulcimer and one or two fiddles, the notes are allowed to ring though, whilst being complemented by a very different timbre.
I apologize for any offence caused to dulcimerers.
David, you haven’t caused any offense, at least not to me. Ptarmigan asked for the opinions of non-dulcimer players, and as a dulcimer player myself, I’m quite interested to hear from you and others. I hope more non-dulcimer players will add their views, even it it’s a “I really dislike them” – that’s worth hearing too, and helpful if you give some reasons.
Personally, I love the hammered dulcimer – that’s why I play it. It brings more joy into my life. I like the sound; I like the physical feeling of the hammers flying over the strings; I even like the look of my beautiful wooden instrument. I do realize that not everyone is as enamored of the dulcimer as I am. I have NO desire to barge in where my instrument is not wanted. My impression from a number of sources about “session etiquette” is that the hammered dulcimer is most likely to be unwelcome at an Irish session, at least in the United States. I’d be afraid to even be seen with a dulcimer case without asking first. Luckily for me, the folks at my local session have welcomed my dulcimer. I asked before I first brought it, and received a positive response from several people. If anyone there doesn’t like it, they’ve remained graciously silent about it.
For those with limited experience with hammered dulcimers, it’s important to know that there is enormous variation in volume and sustain between dulcimers. (If you’ve heard one, you haven’t heard them all!) A dulcimer with less sustain works better for playing fast tunes; more sustain sounds great on slow airs. The volume can be controlled by the player; the sustain can be controlled to a much lesser extent unless dampers are installed. Dampers, activated with a foot pedal, allow the player to dampen both the sustain and the volume, and can be retrofitted to an existing dulcimer.
My dulcimer has a moderate amount of sustain, no dampers (though I may add them in the future), is fairly quiet, and I rarely play it as loudly as it could go. I think it adds a nice layer to the sound in a small group of mixed instruments, but if there are half a dozen or more instruments playing (or just one really loud one, like pipes or a really loud fiddle) the dulcimer gets washed out. I think that only the people sitting right next to me, with an ear right next to the dulcimer, can hear it then. In a previous discussion, Will Harmon made an interesting comment about room acoustics and positioning the hammered dulcimer so that it isn’t completely washed out, but also doesn’t overwhelm the other instruments. I searched for it and found it in the thread “New and Help” http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/433
I play the dulcimer as a melody instrument on Irish tunes. On my dulcimer, at my current skill level, ornaments can sound muddy at speed. I will typically play a simple triplet on a single note where a flute or fiddle might play a roll – that gives a rhythmic ornament without the muddiness caused by cutting with other notes. (More skilled players CAN imitate a roll and sound good, but I’m not there yet.)
A recording that you might want to listen to is John Rea and Sean McAlloon. Hammer dulcimer and pipes. Nice eerie stuff.
I have been in sessions in Belfast with Barry and it worked reasonably well but I certainly wouldn't want oneat every session nor more than one atany one time.
I agree with the comments that the fewer the instruments along with the dulcimer the better it's likely to work.
As a hammered dulcimer player, I brought mine to a few sessions, and while the onlookers loved it, I couldn't stand it except to do a solo air or occasional waltz, or show them that jigs and reels slowed down have a whole different feel to them.
Steve, my dulcimers have quite a bit of reverb that I find awful in session. At home or alone, I can play a set of jigs that flow along like a nice meandering stream...sessions tend to roar like a torrent, and even if I can keep up, there is just the wash of sound.
Both the session players and onlookers like the instrument, maybe because it is so unusual, and when I play an air it is quite ethereal. Then someone sticks a mike in front of me....ugh. I'd rather whistle.
I saw your post about your dulcimers having too much reverb for session playing and was curious: what kind(s) of dulcimer(s) do you have? [i.e., who is the builder, how many courses, are your bridges solid or separated, what woods are in your soundboard and bridges?] I'm interested to learn more about other dulcimers, and what works (and doesn't) for others.
My dulcimer is a James Jones 3/16/18/9, with redwood soundboard and paduak bridges. The bridges are continuous and are not cut across the tops, although the white and black delrin bridge caps are in separate pieces, so that gives a little bit of separation of the courses. From what I've seen and heard, the sustain of my dulcimer is moderate, but there is more sustain in the lower ranges. I love "The Silver Spire" on fiddle but I'm not happy with the B part on my dulcimer: that scale run, starting so low, has too much sustain and sounds muddy. Fast runs played higher up sound ok to me, though.
The room that our session is in seems to suck up the sound of the dulcimer. For now, at least, I'm happier NOT being heard much, so I haven't tried to position myself where the sound will bounce back off the wall. (That's what's preventing me from bringing out my whistle at the session, even at beginner time: unlike the dulcimer, I can't play it quietly!)
Sarah, I had three. The small one which I sold, was a Folkcraft, 8/12, and I couldn't begin to tell you the details. The neat thing about that was it was very small, very portable and nicely quiet, but it didn't have a bass bridge and was limiting in that fashion.
The middle critter is a standard Songbird, probably maple, 11/12, and it is nice and light, moderate sound, and holds its pitch like a dream.
The big one is a black walnut top, zebrawood frame, rock maple block Dana Hamilton, 13/14, #69 in his career. It is a stunner, but extravagantly heavy, especially when I throw in the stand.
In regard to quiet whistling, take a look into the chiff and fipple message board and do a search on whistle mutes. They are EXTREMELY effective, don't cost anything, don't interfere with your high notes, but can reduce the loudest whistle to half volume or a mere whisper. Of course do that in session and you can't even hear yourself!
Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
I bought my first Hammer Dulcimer last Xmas, & attended the 1st ever Irish Dulcimer Festival this summer, in Cork City. During the weekend, I heard various comments, often negative, about how the H. D. was viewed in sessions, & given the recent debates here, on Guitars in sessions, I wondered if any of you had an opinion. I, like most folk in Ireland, had never seen a H.D. in a session, until Cork, mainly because you could count the number of players in Ireland on one hand, maybe two. As I intend to learn enough to be able to play it in sessions, I would be really interested to know how other musicians view the presense of a H. D. in their own sessions. To kick this off, Barry Carroll, who is a magician on the instrument, is possibly the only person in Ireland who takes his out to sessions, in Dublin, & he finds the instrument sounds really well with Fiddles, Flutes, Whistles & Pipes, but clashes with Concertinas, Accordions, Banjos & Harps. Any personal experiences out there?
# Posted on August 26th 2002 by Ptarmigan
Re: Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
I remember hearing Jim Cizah play his in Belfast a while back at a session. It was a fiddle and flute sesh, like most up North. I thought it sounded terrific; I think that stemmed from a fascination with the sound when I first heard The Tímpan Reel on the Chieftains 5. Don't hold back, mate!
# Posted on August 26th 2002 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
Indeed, don't hold back mate.
But watch your volume
# Posted on August 26th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
Ptarmigan, we have several threads on the subject -- do a search for more info.
I'm not usually crazy about HDs in a session, because a lot of times they muddy up the sound, unless the player is experienced in not letting the strings ring. It *can* be quite nice, though.
Zina
# Posted on August 27th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
Ptarmigan, I was at the Cork Dulcimer Festival. You probably attended the workshop, 'Playing the Hammer Dulcimer in an Irish Session' - I was the mandolin and whistle player making up part of the "typical Irish session".
I am not a dulcimer player myself, but having been exposed to so much dulcimer playing at the festival, I feel I am qualified to make a few comments. Firstly, Dulcimers in numbers only work if you want a strictly dulcimer session - any other instrument will be rendered insignificant by their collective volume. To my ears, a dulcimer sounds best in combination with one or two other instruments. Whilst it has volume, its long sustain makes the notes of fast tunes indistinct, and in a large session its sound tends to come across as a discordant hum. In a smaller combination, e.g dulcimer and pipes, dulcimer and one or two fiddles, the notes are allowed to ring though, whilst being complemented by a very different timbre.
I apologize for any offence caused to dulcimerers.
# Posted on August 27th 2002 by granama
Re: Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
David, you haven’t caused any offense, at least not to me. Ptarmigan asked for the opinions of non-dulcimer players, and as a dulcimer player myself, I’m quite interested to hear from you and others. I hope more non-dulcimer players will add their views, even it it’s a “I really dislike them” – that’s worth hearing too, and helpful if you give some reasons.
Personally, I love the hammered dulcimer – that’s why I play it. It brings more joy into my life. I like the sound; I like the physical feeling of the hammers flying over the strings; I even like the look of my beautiful wooden instrument. I do realize that not everyone is as enamored of the dulcimer as I am. I have NO desire to barge in where my instrument is not wanted. My impression from a number of sources about “session etiquette” is that the hammered dulcimer is most likely to be unwelcome at an Irish session, at least in the United States. I’d be afraid to even be seen with a dulcimer case without asking first. Luckily for me, the folks at my local session have welcomed my dulcimer. I asked before I first brought it, and received a positive response from several people. If anyone there doesn’t like it, they’ve remained graciously silent about it.
For those with limited experience with hammered dulcimers, it’s important to know that there is enormous variation in volume and sustain between dulcimers. (If you’ve heard one, you haven’t heard them all!) A dulcimer with less sustain works better for playing fast tunes; more sustain sounds great on slow airs. The volume can be controlled by the player; the sustain can be controlled to a much lesser extent unless dampers are installed. Dampers, activated with a foot pedal, allow the player to dampen both the sustain and the volume, and can be retrofitted to an existing dulcimer.
My dulcimer has a moderate amount of sustain, no dampers (though I may add them in the future), is fairly quiet, and I rarely play it as loudly as it could go. I think it adds a nice layer to the sound in a small group of mixed instruments, but if there are half a dozen or more instruments playing (or just one really loud one, like pipes or a really loud fiddle) the dulcimer gets washed out. I think that only the people sitting right next to me, with an ear right next to the dulcimer, can hear it then. In a previous discussion, Will Harmon made an interesting comment about room acoustics and positioning the hammered dulcimer so that it isn’t completely washed out, but also doesn’t overwhelm the other instruments. I searched for it and found it in the thread “New and Help” http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/433
I play the dulcimer as a melody instrument on Irish tunes. On my dulcimer, at my current skill level, ornaments can sound muddy at speed. I will typically play a simple triplet on a single note where a flute or fiddle might play a roll – that gives a rhythmic ornament without the muddiness caused by cutting with other notes. (More skilled players CAN imitate a roll and sound good, but I’m not there yet.)
Sarah
# Posted on August 27th 2002 by x
Re: Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
Sorry, I'm just trying out my new computer skill. Yes I've just learned how to write in paragraphs! You can teach an old dog new tricks!
# Posted on August 27th 2002 by Ptarmigan
Kindergarden
Oops!
back to the drawing board.
Ah ha. got ya.
Thanks Jeremy
Sorry,
don't mind me.
# Posted on August 27th 2002 by Ptarmigan
Re: Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
A recording that you might want to listen to is John Rea and Sean McAlloon. Hammer dulcimer and pipes. Nice eerie stuff.
I have been in sessions in Belfast with Barry and it worked reasonably well but I certainly wouldn't want oneat every session nor more than one atany one time.
I agree with the comments that the fewer the instruments along with the dulcimer the better it's likely to work.
# Posted on August 29th 2002 by breandan
Re: Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
As a hammered dulcimer player, I brought mine to a few sessions, and while the onlookers loved it, I couldn't stand it except to do a solo air or occasional waltz, or show them that jigs and reels slowed down have a whole different feel to them.
People keep asking, I keep refusing.
# Posted on September 1st 2002 by Tyghress
Re: Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
Tyghress-Why couldn't you stand it? Were the "onlookers" other session members or non-players?
# Posted on September 1st 2002 by SteveKendall
Re: Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
Steve, my dulcimers have quite a bit of reverb that I find awful in session. At home or alone, I can play a set of jigs that flow along like a nice meandering stream...sessions tend to roar like a torrent, and even if I can keep up, there is just the wash of sound.
Both the session players and onlookers like the instrument, maybe because it is so unusual, and when I play an air it is quite ethereal. Then someone sticks a mike in front of me....ugh. I'd rather whistle.
# Posted on September 2nd 2002 by Tyghress
Re: Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
Hi Tyghress,
I saw your post about your dulcimers having too much reverb for session playing and was curious: what kind(s) of dulcimer(s) do you have? [i.e., who is the builder, how many courses, are your bridges solid or separated, what woods are in your soundboard and bridges?] I'm interested to learn more about other dulcimers, and what works (and doesn't) for others.
My dulcimer is a James Jones 3/16/18/9, with redwood soundboard and paduak bridges. The bridges are continuous and are not cut across the tops, although the white and black delrin bridge caps are in separate pieces, so that gives a little bit of separation of the courses. From what I've seen and heard, the sustain of my dulcimer is moderate, but there is more sustain in the lower ranges. I love "The Silver Spire" on fiddle but I'm not happy with the B part on my dulcimer: that scale run, starting so low, has too much sustain and sounds muddy. Fast runs played higher up sound ok to me, though.
The room that our session is in seems to suck up the sound of the dulcimer. For now, at least, I'm happier NOT being heard much, so I haven't tried to position myself where the sound will bounce back off the wall. (That's what's preventing me from bringing out my whistle at the session, even at beginner time: unlike the dulcimer, I can't play it quietly!)
Sarah Garland
Fairbanks, Alaska
# Posted on September 3rd 2002 by x
Re: Hammer Dulcimers in Irish Sessions
Sarah, I had three. The small one which I sold, was a Folkcraft, 8/12, and I couldn't begin to tell you the details. The neat thing about that was it was very small, very portable and nicely quiet, but it didn't have a bass bridge and was limiting in that fashion.
The middle critter is a standard Songbird, probably maple, 11/12, and it is nice and light, moderate sound, and holds its pitch like a dream.
The big one is a black walnut top, zebrawood frame, rock maple block Dana Hamilton, 13/14, #69 in his career. It is a stunner, but extravagantly heavy, especially when I throw in the stand.
In regard to quiet whistling, take a look into the chiff and fipple message board and do a search on whistle mutes. They are EXTREMELY effective, don't cost anything, don't interfere with your high notes, but can reduce the loudest whistle to half volume or a mere whisper. Of course do that in session and you can't even hear yourself!
# Posted on September 4th 2002 by Tyghress