I wanted to tell you about this competition I’m organizing in Atlanta in Feb.
So when I was in Ireland this summer doing the TTCT course with a bunch of very nice and very young 18 to 22 year olds—yep, I was one of the ‘old ones’ at 28. Everyone was getting so excited about the up coming Fleadh—I think it was Leinster. Unfortunately, I didn’t get to go, as I had to fly home.
Being an American, and about 500 miles away from the closest Fleadh even in my own country, I started thinking, “Wow, their enthusiasm is really cool! I bet my own fiddle students would be more driven if they had a local competition to look forward to every year.”
I want to give them a competition that they can feel like they can successful, but at the same time a competition where the quality of music is high and respect of the music is upheld. Basically, quality adjudication so they can know (unlike many Feis music competitions) that the judges are experience and respected traditional musicians.
Coming back to Atlanta, I shared this idea with some friends and parents and they thought it was a good idea as well and anyway; here it is, the first Atlanta Irish Music Competition: www.atlantairishmusic.com.
We’re really hoping to attract competitors from all over the South and nationally—would be cool to; kind of a warm up to the Fleadh for our friends in NY and Midwest. We’re bringing in Marie Reilly and Seamus MacConaonaigh to adjudicate, who are also doing a concert that night in the city.
I’m posting here because I wanted to get the word out and get your feedback as well.
You deserve a tremendous amout of credit for what you are doing. Anything that can raise standards of music in your area, and provided a social network for young people to see that they are not learning this music in a vacuum, is great. Your choice of judges is good as well. Good luck with your Fleadh!!
Excellent idea!!--I wish you the best of luck!!
I looked over the website though and I did notice that it is set up very differently from the standard fleadh type competitions--it's more like the Old time fiddle competions. At a fleadh or even a feis there is no time limit and with slow airs mostly being played over twice --that could take up a lot of the 5 minutes you've allotted.... Just a thought--
Heya Kat - I think I recall playing with you in some sessions up at Swananoa this year. I was the lefty flute player (not the instructor) who struggled a bit to keep up. I roomed with Keyton, if you know who he is.
Anyway - best of luck with the new competition! As long as the ultimate goals are kept in persective, then they can be really good things.
It's similar to something I've had on my mind for my area too. There was a feis in my area, which fell apart when the person that ran it got too old to run it any more. She ran it completely alone for years, and has died since, so I can't ask her for tips. That feis was predominantly classical music, but also had competitions for Irish dancing, drama, verse-speaking, scéalaíocht and so on.
It was far more casual than the Feis Ceoil or most of the other feiseanna around Dublin. The comments were all constructive, and the emphasis was on getting up there and doing what you could rather than the competition element (although there was that too, to keep the standards up).
My idea is for something similar, but making it more inclusive. Having sections for different types of music, including trad, obviously.
So, any tips for me? Any things I should watch out for?
I have my doubts about competition in the arts in general.
If you look at what has happened to step dancing, you can see its worst influence: what started out as something everyone could do (and I have seen an 80-year old doing a wonderful sean nos step) has tirned into an olympic gymnastic event, complete with ludicrously kitsch costumes, bizarre leaping about, and occasionally a champion who can only dance to a specific specialised recording of a specific tune (I swear I have seen one).
In classical music too, many critics question events like the Leeds piano competition, citing the way that music is now written specially for it, and serves merely to demonstrate the flashiest possible techniques, leaving the quality of the pieces themselves at the bottom of the pile.
I've played alongside a few competition winners over the years in sessions, and while they wow the bystanders, they seem to have got more and more difficult to play along with over the years. Bodhran playing, for instance, has changed out of all recognition lately it seems, and I wonder how much of that is due to the competitors' need to stand out in the crowd.
I'm a mediocre session musician myself (on a good day), and I really don't begrudge the competitive success of the talented and inspired, but I regret the way that over-emphasis on winning can distort things.
Having said all that, I am well aware of the pleasure competitons can bring to youngsters, and the not-so-young, if entered in the right spirit.
I used to do a bit of set dancing, although I only ever entered one competition. I enjoyed it enormously, and won a Best in Britain trophy, which was nice. But I and my fellow dancers were all adults, and all had a pretty laid back attitude to it. We chose to do simple stuff well, in the traditional manner, and were quite surprised to win against some teams who were much more technically brilliant.
So I guess what I would say is that to preserve the good side of competition - especially the encouragement it can give to the kids - your choice of judges, and their awareness of what you want to achieve, is vitally important.
Sorry if this sounds like a really negative rant. From what you said originally, I am sure you know what you are doing, and I hope it all goes really well. Good luck to you!
A self-quote from a similar discussion at that other website:
'At the end of the day, the only things that can be *objectively* judged are the ability to conform to pre-determined, usually technical standards. If you allow for subjective things like "flair," "creativity," "musicality," etc., then competitors will always be able to say "It's not fair." This is the intrinsic bind of music competitions: if you want objective standards, ppl will complain of blandness. If you want creativity, people will complain of favoritism. Just watch the skating competitions at the Olympics.
This is why I stopped competing on GHB - yes, the competitions were "fair", but the repertoire and stylistic latitudes were so small as to encourage quick burnout.
That said, I think competitions can be a great motivator to learn some technical aspects of playing music - so they have a great purpose. But it isn't necessarily to encourage creativity or "musicality."'
Competitions if handled right can be a great motivational tool. If handled incorrectly they can be a highly destructive weapon as well. I used to compete in Texas Old Time Fiddling. I burned out on the politics of competing. I competed for 12 years in classical music and got burned for interpretation more than once. I will never compete again. One fiddle competition I went too I was one of two people in the 17-40 age group. I was 18, my opponent was in her late 30's at the least. She had only been playing fiddle for a year or so and didn't play a note cleanly, but her nephew is a star fiddler so she beat me. I haven't competed since. On any instrument.
That said, I when I have a studio I probably will encourage my students to compete since it's required by most music teacher associations. If handled properly it can also be a fun and motivating experience. I learned my competition pieces and developed good technique while competing. And I never really cared about winning, I'm not overly competitive so I was never crushed, but I watched the nicest kids turn horridly nasty if they didn't win.
I'm not saying that all kids are like this, most of the ones who did act in that manner were pushed by demonically driven parents. So make sure that the competition stays motivational and fun for the kids. And while I understand the importance of kids be allowed to win and allowed to lose understand that if a kid loses badly it may mar their affections for the music. And if some are pushed to hard and do well and then pushed harder they may burn out. I've seen all of it happen so many times.
It's sad to see kids that loved playing the music for the music lose the love because of competitions. The danger of supplying their motivation for them is that sometimes it replaces their intrinsic motivation and they start to wonder why they bother playing.
All that said, I think that this competition and concert can be a good thing for your students and other kids. My favorite part of the competitions was seeing all the people again time and again. Most of us had fun and enjoyed being around other young people who liked the music and the instruments. So, just take care that your kids don't get to caught up in winning and that they remember that they aren't playing to win but to have fun.
Thanks for all you comments and reflects from your own experiances. I think this competition will encourage students to get in involved in Irish music or improve their playing, but at the end of day, love of music is intrensic and no one can put a score on that.
New Irish Music Competition-- thoughts?
New Irish Music Competition-- thoughts?
Hey session folks,
I wanted to tell you about this competition I’m organizing in Atlanta in Feb.
So when I was in Ireland this summer doing the TTCT course with a bunch of very nice and very young 18 to 22 year olds—yep, I was one of the ‘old ones’ at 28. Everyone was getting so excited about the up coming Fleadh—I think it was Leinster. Unfortunately, I didn’t get to go, as I had to fly home.
Being an American, and about 500 miles away from the closest Fleadh even in my own country, I started thinking, “Wow, their enthusiasm is really cool! I bet my own fiddle students would be more driven if they had a local competition to look forward to every year.”
I want to give them a competition that they can feel like they can successful, but at the same time a competition where the quality of music is high and respect of the music is upheld. Basically, quality adjudication so they can know (unlike many Feis music competitions) that the judges are experience and respected traditional musicians.
Coming back to Atlanta, I shared this idea with some friends and parents and they thought it was a good idea as well and anyway; here it is, the first Atlanta Irish Music Competition: www.atlantairishmusic.com.
We’re really hoping to attract competitors from all over the South and nationally—would be cool to; kind of a warm up to the Fleadh for our friends in NY and Midwest. We’re bringing in Marie Reilly and Seamus MacConaonaigh to adjudicate, who are also doing a concert that night in the city.
I’m posting here because I wanted to get the word out and get your feedback as well.
Kat
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by fiddle_around
Re: New Irish Music Competition-- thoughts?
You deserve a tremendous amout of credit for what you are doing. Anything that can raise standards of music in your area, and provided a social network for young people to see that they are not learning this music in a vacuum, is great. Your choice of judges is good as well. Good luck with your Fleadh!!
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by oldetimey
Re: New Irish Music Competition-- thoughts?
hmm ... music / competition? ... competition / music? ...
Oxymoron
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: New Irish Music Competition-- thoughts?
Excellent idea!!--I wish you the best of luck!!
I looked over the website though and I did notice that it is set up very differently from the standard fleadh type competitions--it's more like the Old time fiddle competions. At a fleadh or even a feis there is no time limit and with slow airs mostly being played over twice --that could take up a lot of the 5 minutes you've allotted.... Just a thought--
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by fiddlefamily
Re: New Irish Music Competition-- thoughts?
Heya Kat - I think I recall playing with you in some sessions up at Swananoa this year. I was the lefty flute player (not the instructor) who struggled a bit to keep up. I roomed with Keyton, if you know who he is.
Anyway - best of luck with the new competition! As long as the ultimate goals are kept in persective, then they can be really good things.
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: New Irish Music Competition-- thoughts?
Fair play Kat!
It's similar to something I've had on my mind for my area too. There was a feis in my area, which fell apart when the person that ran it got too old to run it any more. She ran it completely alone for years, and has died since, so I can't ask her for tips. That feis was predominantly classical music, but also had competitions for Irish dancing, drama, verse-speaking, scéalaíocht and so on.
It was far more casual than the Feis Ceoil or most of the other feiseanna around Dublin. The comments were all constructive, and the emphasis was on getting up there and doing what you could rather than the competition element (although there was that too, to keep the standards up).
My idea is for something similar, but making it more inclusive. Having sections for different types of music, including trad, obviously.
So, any tips for me? Any things I should watch out for?
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by tumeltyni
Re: New Irish Music Competition-- thoughts?
I have my doubts about competition in the arts in general.
If you look at what has happened to step dancing, you can see its worst influence: what started out as something everyone could do (and I have seen an 80-year old doing a wonderful sean nos step) has tirned into an olympic gymnastic event, complete with ludicrously kitsch costumes, bizarre leaping about, and occasionally a champion who can only dance to a specific specialised recording of a specific tune (I swear I have seen one).
In classical music too, many critics question events like the Leeds piano competition, citing the way that music is now written specially for it, and serves merely to demonstrate the flashiest possible techniques, leaving the quality of the pieces themselves at the bottom of the pile.
I've played alongside a few competition winners over the years in sessions, and while they wow the bystanders, they seem to have got more and more difficult to play along with over the years. Bodhran playing, for instance, has changed out of all recognition lately it seems, and I wonder how much of that is due to the competitors' need to stand out in the crowd.
I'm a mediocre session musician myself (on a good day), and I really don't begrudge the competitive success of the talented and inspired, but I regret the way that over-emphasis on winning can distort things.
Having said all that, I am well aware of the pleasure competitons can bring to youngsters, and the not-so-young, if entered in the right spirit.
I used to do a bit of set dancing, although I only ever entered one competition. I enjoyed it enormously, and won a Best in Britain trophy, which was nice. But I and my fellow dancers were all adults, and all had a pretty laid back attitude to it. We chose to do simple stuff well, in the traditional manner, and were quite surprised to win against some teams who were much more technically brilliant.
So I guess what I would say is that to preserve the good side of competition - especially the encouragement it can give to the kids - your choice of judges, and their awareness of what you want to achieve, is vitally important.
Sorry if this sounds like a really negative rant. From what you said originally, I am sure you know what you are doing, and I hope it all goes really well. Good luck to you!
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by E
Re: New Irish Music Competition-- thoughts?
A self-quote from a similar discussion at that other website:
'At the end of the day, the only things that can be *objectively* judged are the ability to conform to pre-determined, usually technical standards. If you allow for subjective things like "flair," "creativity," "musicality," etc., then competitors will always be able to say "It's not fair." This is the intrinsic bind of music competitions: if you want objective standards, ppl will complain of blandness. If you want creativity, people will complain of favoritism. Just watch the skating competitions at the Olympics.
This is why I stopped competing on GHB - yes, the competitions were "fair", but the repertoire and stylistic latitudes were so small as to encourage quick burnout.
That said, I think competitions can be a great motivator to learn some technical aspects of playing music - so they have a great purpose. But it isn't necessarily to encourage creativity or "musicality."'
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: New Irish Music Competition-- thoughts?
Competitions if handled right can be a great motivational tool. If handled incorrectly they can be a highly destructive weapon as well. I used to compete in Texas Old Time Fiddling. I burned out on the politics of competing. I competed for 12 years in classical music and got burned for interpretation more than once. I will never compete again. One fiddle competition I went too I was one of two people in the 17-40 age group. I was 18, my opponent was in her late 30's at the least. She had only been playing fiddle for a year or so and didn't play a note cleanly, but her nephew is a star fiddler so she beat me. I haven't competed since. On any instrument.
That said, I when I have a studio I probably will encourage my students to compete since it's required by most music teacher associations. If handled properly it can also be a fun and motivating experience. I learned my competition pieces and developed good technique while competing. And I never really cared about winning, I'm not overly competitive so I was never crushed, but I watched the nicest kids turn horridly nasty if they didn't win.
I'm not saying that all kids are like this, most of the ones who did act in that manner were pushed by demonically driven parents. So make sure that the competition stays motivational and fun for the kids. And while I understand the importance of kids be allowed to win and allowed to lose understand that if a kid loses badly it may mar their affections for the music. And if some are pushed to hard and do well and then pushed harder they may burn out. I've seen all of it happen so many times.
It's sad to see kids that loved playing the music for the music lose the love because of competitions. The danger of supplying their motivation for them is that sometimes it replaces their intrinsic motivation and they start to wonder why they bother playing.
All that said, I think that this competition and concert can be a good thing for your students and other kids. My favorite part of the competitions was seeing all the people again time and again. Most of us had fun and enjoyed being around other young people who liked the music and the instruments. So, just take care that your kids don't get to caught up in winning and that they remember that they aren't playing to win but to have fun.
# Posted on October 28th 2005 by musicfan
Re: New Irish Music Competition-- thoughts?
Thanks for all you comments and reflects from your own experiances. I think this competition will encourage students to get in involved in Irish music or improve their playing, but at the end of day, love of music is intrensic and no one can put a score on that.
ahhh....
Kat
# Posted on October 28th 2005 by fiddle_around