I showed up to a session tonight and I was the only one. I think everyone was somewhere else but no one told me of the location (have fun with that one). Anyway, I took the opportunity to talk to the doorman. Fishing for a compliment, I asked him how big a part the sessioneers played to the atmosphere of the pub (he didn't know I was one). He said, in a nutshell, NOTHING! Those guys come for the free beer. That their music chased away as many as it drew, and it may as well be RAP. Irish music is an *aquired taste* that few appreciate. I was crushed twice (I was alone, you recall). I sought solace from my musician son. He has played in pubs, even on St Pats day and was told not to play Irish music. He painted a picture of how wierd it is to have a bunch of people in a corner of a pub facing each other playing a combination of the most aggravating instruments on the face of the earth, playing the same melody line, and not caring if anyone in the establishment is listening or enjoying.
We recently had to find a new home for our session because the management of the old venue decided we took up too much space, and they needed it for paying customers.
Last week we played our hearts out at the new venue, and a few people actually applauded at the end of the tune--and one patron told us how much she enjoyed our playing ("each and every one of you").
So, "illegitimati non carborundum," as the fake Latin saying goes. Opinons are like a**sholes, everybody's got one.
I've been there feardearg. A lot of people have no clue. Some have a clue and don't like it. Sometimes the place goes stale and it's time to move on. Better to move on before yr sent.
We had a situation once that got so hostile we found another arena. So, the owner fired the mgr and replaced half the staff. Eventually we went back, everybody loved us because we're not amplified and don't sing. Nobody said anything about the quality of the music.
Irish Music is an acquired taste". I'm inclined to argee, I don't know anybody that came straight into ITM. Everybody has some other musical background.
"...a bunch of people ......facing each other.... and not caring....."
A most effective hostility breeding strategy.
What can I say, it happens, I HAVE learned not to fish for compliments.
"He painted a picture of how wierd it is to have a bunch of people in a corner of a pub facing each other playing a combination of the most aggravating instruments on the face of the earth, playing the same melody line, and not caring if anyone in the establishment is listening or enjoying."
That's amazing... this is exactly the way a lot of people in here described their session to demonstrate that it wasn't a public performance. (except for the "aggravating instruments" part)
ITM sessions fit in with the regular clientele better in some pubs than others. The music may be treated as Nuisance, Tolerated, Background Music, Minor attraction or Major Drawcard by the punters that happen to be there. I certainly wouldn't take it personally any more than I would take it personally if a punter came up and said how much they enjoyed listening to the session.
I was in a local Irish pub owned by a friend of mine from Dublin who likes that "staccato" Irish music, as he calls it. It sounded like Sweeny's Men was on the CD player behind the bar and I asked the barman (he’s Irish) if that's what it was. He said, "Hell if I know, I couldn't care less about that diddly-di crap." Funny thing is, he was the barman when we had our sessions in there. I had no idea he was so hostile towards it.
Also… an incensed cook holding a machete demanding that I stop playing Irish music once threatened me from the other side of the college radio studio’s window. I guess it's very moving for some folks.
Heh heh, spot on, man. I fear that's the unavoidable choice: either play what people like, or play what you like, and don't get bitter that others don't compliment you. Rather be thankful if from time to time you find someone that will give you due credit.
In here, for example, I have this feeling that most gigs we do for general public (i.e. not-Irish-music-fans) leaves people cold or mildly interested. But what do you want? We decided to play more or less traditional style, not shantie-shmantie-pop with a mixture of the Pogues, and we have what we wanted. We don't sing almost at all, and all the melodies are just the same for the people, be it jigs, reels, barndances, laridees, horas or klezmer. Can't blame them.
Also, if you sit in the corner, your back to the punter crowd, why on Earth should you expect to be appreciated? It's like signalling "we don't want to have anything with you, stay away". Customers are the primary care and concern of the pub owner, the guy who pays the piper. So what do you do apart from making racket in the pub?
(Don't take it personally, I wouldn't ever want to be offensive, just to give you a different perspective)
Sessions in the UK have always flourished best where the social context supports them. REAL Irish pubs, which are fairly rare now but more common in the 70s, where the music provided the punters with a link to home. A supportive landlord- this is the best way of surviving these days. A pub with a regular quiet night, so that they are glad to have ANYONE in. A landlord whose attitude is to have things going on rather than just milk the place for maximum income.
As for the music played, if you arrange it to please the punters, it's not a session, it's a band. Both have their place, but they are different things.
Free beer is fairly uncommon over here, I only know of one that does it just now, and then it's only the one pint., and limited to the "serious" musicians (there is a sort of allocation procedure). It's not in the list and I'm not telling you where it is because you'll only sup it all before I get there.
"As for the music played, if you arrange it to please the punters, it's not a session, it's a band. Both have their place, but they are different things."
Whether you like it or not, if it doesn't please the punters to some extent, they'll stop coming, and the session will cease to exist, and we'll get more hurt & bewildered posts asking " ...... but WHY?" I don't mean arranging it to please the punters - we're at least presuming that the punters appreciate the spontaneity of the session - but I do mean playing in a way that can be heard by people other than the musicians, and not behaving as if you're in a private folk club, especially if you're not a regular at the pub you're playing in.
Personally, I think it's nice when you get a free drink or two, but I'd throw out everyone who thinks it's theirs by right, just for turning up. That just gets people's backs up and is a death wish for the session.
Paul or luap has it right about the" A pub with a regular quiet night, so that they are glad to have ANYONE in".
But after it gets established, management can change - or quickly forget - and they see the musicians as a nuisance to rather than the cause of the extra business they're getting. And some musicians get arrogant and forget that they're in a public place - usually the ones who never drank in that pub (and are maybe not usually pub-goers at all) but just turned up when they - eventually - heard there was a session.
None of this is all that true for pubs like Sandy Bells which are more famous for their sessions than anything else - but they are few and far between
Do session have to take place in pubs? Does anyone play in a parlor, basement, garage, gym, community center, old folks home, orphanage, gift shop, book shop, prison....? Is the pub a neccessary element of the music?
"Punters" = customers, the crowd, civilians, average Joes etc. Used to mean someone betting on a horse or dog race - don't know how or when it changed.
Sessions can take place anywhere. Forcing them into a pub environment can cause tensions if it's not part of the local culture.
But I don't know many musicians around here who'd come to a sesh anywhere but a pub. Maybe because their houses are a tip/tiny/devoid of drink/full of family wanting to watch Coronation St etc.
If the landlord is getting you in to increase revenue, not because he simply loves music, he should be paying you in some way. I should imagine that bar staff who DON'T like the music (and why should they), and are forced to listen to it for hours on end, probably find it intensely irritating.
Every session I play at has a landlord that loves the music.
I'd like things to get back to the good ol' folk club days, when you went to a room upstairs in the pub dedicated to the music, where devotees came and listened in silence and musicians played and sang their hearts out to an appreciative audience. Anyone could come, provided they paid a miniscule fee and provided they agreed to be quiet. It was absolutely great.
Sessions are great, of course, but a poor substitute for the real thing because of all we've read in this post, but it's all we've got now. I'm with Ptarmigan - it's worth the effort to find the right pub, I guess - shop around.
I've been on both sides of the fence. Nobody should apologise for their sesh even if it is a ton of ugly instruments playing monodically (if that's a word). It's not meant to be 'fair'.
But. When I was at college, before I began playing, I worked at a pub where there was a session on a Sunday afternoon. When I started it was pretty lively, lots of musicians, some coming quite a long way. However over the course of about a year it deteriorated very badly, and I & the other girls working began to loathe the musicians with a passion. This sounds mean but we were all kids being paid 3.50 an hour, and it was Sunday dinnertime so we were always hungover & not in the best of humours.
We resented giving them their pints-for-a-pound. They should have been charged *extra*. Also because the landlord fancied that the pub was an arty place, & wanted it to be like a little theatre, the table they sat round was on a kind of stage, so the bathos was multiplied. Irish music might not be to everyone's taste but this wasn't to anyone's; in fact there were bad vibes from the last handful musicians too who were cross about the decline but couldn't stop it getting worse. Maybe as well there were a couple of people competing to be leader, I can't remember (this is a long while ago now). I do remember a couple that had broken up playing 'duelling banjos', & the girl looking beautiful & sad. So, there was lots of bad temper.
It was all worth it in the end because when I started learning I realised I knew the standard tunes. Now I think we were being brats (funny how a change of allegiance does that). Imagine how you'd want to smack a barmaid who calls over to another barmaid, 'remember it's a pound a pint for --- "musicians" '.
The one remaining trauma has been that I come out in hives when I hear Sonny's Mazurka.
Siobhan, are you seriously telling me that when Paul struggled in with his Dulcimer, propped it on two chairs, stopped the session dead for 30 minutes while he 'tuned' it, and then launched into a faltering version of Sonny's Mazurka, your heart didn't soar?
You cannot please all of the people all of the time. This is especially true with Irish traditional music. It is not pop music afterall. People have different tastes, and that is OK.
Re: musicians sitting in a circle with their backs to the punters
I've also seen this in singer/songwriter sessions when I lived in Nashville. In particular, the Bluebird Cafe which hosts singer/songwriter sessions has an "in the round" [1] format that they use for some of their sessions.
I've played in a hospital cafeteria. This was at work. (The session originally was in the main foyer, but I guess there were complaints that some of the more uplifting tunes might not be appropriate for friends and family waiting to see patients in life/death situations.)
P.S. the reference to [1] in the previous entry should be:
Our band and a few other musicians were at a folk festival and on the Sunday, after playing in the pub all weekend, we were asked if we could play in another room as "we were blocking his bar trade". We suggested we could play in another room in another pub! Anyway we all trooped out and low and behold the pub was empty.
Seems a shame that he was quite happy to take money off the musicians all weekend but suddenly on the Sunday - maybe when he had made enough money - we all have to leave. I think the pub has since changed hands and we were welcome to play all weekend.
We have a great seisun here in NJ and I personally don't give a darn what the public thinks--for the most part though they do seem to enjoy it and are amazed at the fact that we're sitting there playing tunes. The bar owner pays 2 of us to run the seisun while the other join in and we all have a blast...it gets better as the time goes by..
Well, I was telling that story against my 19-year-old self to show how evil the bar staff might be. At first working Sundays was such fun, but then the sesh fell on harder times, & now on the other side of the fence I can see the good bits (I did get to learn the tunes after all). But at the time I was very cross. In fact, I was a horrid barmaid. I worked hard but was stroppy with customers.
Conan I'm sure you must have played in sessions with a broken-up couple who have unspoken rows via tunes. Always hilarious. Mark - we'll chat about it off-board...!
Funny - I bet many of these people who complain so loudly against ITM have seen (and very likely own a copy of) Riverdance or Celtic Tiger or Celtic Women and LOVED them. Idiots! LOL
Siobhan: I just wanted to check that you don't still loathe those musicians with a vengeance. After all I was one of them until the terminal session decline and I don't like to think that someone is out there sending bad vibes in my direction
I sort of miss those days - the grumpy bar staff, the banjo arguments, that man who stood facing the wall tweeting on the whistle frantically all the time, the cake, Rita glaring at me as she played long sets of 15 polkas, the constant sound of keys bashing on beer glasses. But not Sonny's Mazurka.
Just joined the session and relate to this one been there and seen it.Although I am a singer and in the past have done mainly singer sessions-sometimes we had a mixture of both and it was great.I used to hate the in fighting between singers and instrumentalists at some of the festival sessions and pub one's too.But on some occassions we would mix the session with singers and instrumentalists abd we would do two for us and one for the punters.
I dont mean pop for the punters but just the very well known songs or tunes they sometimes join in.Also the instrumentalists would sometimes take a very well known popular mainstream song-slip it into the middle of a trad set and the pinters would love it -not knowing that we were just having fun sending it up.Especially tunes with a comedy theme to them.
Once in a session with four fiddlers, total strangers who slipped in a set that included "suicide is painless(mash),the funeral march,stairway to heaven,auld lang syne and deil among the tailors" the neutrals loved it.
Other one we did often was a canadian barn dance of sorts that included among trad tunes-yellow submarine-monty pythons flying circus, and some others I dont remember.
We also always picked the centre point of any pub and never hid ourselves from the audience so that we could involve them in a bit of the craic-had lots of great sessions this way with lots of neutrals around too.
No no no no! No bad vibes! I wouldn't have posted it unless I thought you guys knew what I was talking about and that you knew I didn't mean you!! And I'm not backpedalling, it really was great until suddenly, it wasn't. There was this lovely bodhran guy with a beard who gave me loads of print-offs of tunes, & a shy fiddler called Colin (I can't remember Rita though or the whistler), & my friend Clodagh who played piano accordion, and the fiddle guy who came from a long way to teach a class first. But I think at some point you all disappeared to the Elm Tree.
Um - I did notice who was a strong musician & to be pleased when you turned up, but once it got to the point of no return we did tar everyone with the same brush. Memories hazy but I can't remember you being there at the end when there were three or four people. I'm not going to pretend we weren't horrible (the staff I mean, I'm not being royal). It all looks different on the outside.
There was one guy & the landlord said 'oh don't be too hard on him, his wife doesn't let him practice at home'. And we could see why. He certainly made up for lost time by starting every other tune.
If you're in Slough this weekend (if I make it) we should try & reconstruct the memories, because I've forgotten a lot (& it's easier to be garrulous in real life; there isn't a permanent reminder of your b*tchiness blinking back at you from cyberspace for eternity).
Which good old days had the music upstairs, halfirish? Certainly not the 70s in Manchester- at least a dozen pubs with the music in the bar/ lounge. We used to go to the Exile most. Everyone talked through the tunes as a matter of course- it was expected. But stopped for slow airs and songs. The crowd were mostly Irish anyway, so there was no conflict at all with the regulars. And NO free beer unless you were Joe Burke or someone like that.
What the bottom line is is that to a lot of people, irish is "ethnic music." The melodies aren't at all familiar to people, and there are no words to sing along to. The point of a session isn't to please the crowd; at that point it becomes a show which is an entirely different thing. The point is to go out, have fun, learn some tunes and take advantage of any free/ discounted drinks the bar has to offer. The bar owner/ staff may not like the music, but generally a session is allowed because the musicians are good customers and add to the atmosphere. Just make sure to tip well and treat the staff like gold. That'll keep them happy, and as long as the occasional fast fiddle tune comes out, the crowd will be too.
Put it this way; how many of you like traditional indian music, or greek, or chinese for example. These are all traditional music, and certainly not to everyone's taste. When I go out for sushi, I may not want to hear bloody koto music for an hour, but I can't deny that it does add to the ambience.
S1obhan, was that the session where Danny played fiddle every Sunday? (I played concertina and used to hitch a lift with the fiddle guy who came from a long way away to teach a class first). For us, the heart went out of it when Danny died, and a lot of the (mainly Irish) locals melted away over the next few weeks. I often wondered what happened to that session - we never intended to stop going, just other things tended to be allowed to get in the way of it more. I did wonder sometimes what the overworked bar staff thought ot it!
Yes - that sesh - I began working shortly before he died when things were still raring. I remember being told to give him double helpings on his red wine! A framed photo of him was kept behind the bar - he was a true gent.
Ugly Experience at Pub
Ugly Experience at Pub
I showed up to a session tonight and I was the only one. I think everyone was somewhere else but no one told me of the location (have fun with that one). Anyway, I took the opportunity to talk to the doorman. Fishing for a compliment, I asked him how big a part the sessioneers played to the atmosphere of the pub (he didn't know I was one). He said, in a nutshell, NOTHING! Those guys come for the free beer. That their music chased away as many as it drew, and it may as well be RAP. Irish music is an *aquired taste* that few appreciate. I was crushed twice (I was alone, you recall). I sought solace from my musician son. He has played in pubs, even on St Pats day and was told not to play Irish music. He painted a picture of how wierd it is to have a bunch of people in a corner of a pub facing each other playing a combination of the most aggravating instruments on the face of the earth, playing the same melody line, and not caring if anyone in the establishment is listening or enjoying.
I sit here heartbroken. Is there any consolation?
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by feardearg
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
As Slick Willie used to say, I feel your pain....
We recently had to find a new home for our session because the management of the old venue decided we took up too much space, and they needed it for paying customers.
Last week we played our hearts out at the new venue, and a few people actually applauded at the end of the tune--and one patron told us how much she enjoyed our playing ("each and every one of you").
So, "illegitimati non carborundum," as the fake Latin saying goes. Opinons are like a**sholes, everybody's got one.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by tuckered out
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
"...everybody's got one, and they all stink."
I've been there feardearg. A lot of people have no clue. Some have a clue and don't like it. Sometimes the place goes stale and it's time to move on. Better to move on before yr sent.
We had a situation once that got so hostile we found another arena. So, the owner fired the mgr and replaced half the staff. Eventually we went back, everybody loved us because we're not amplified and don't sing. Nobody said anything about the quality of the music.
Irish Music is an acquired taste". I'm inclined to argee, I don't know anybody that came straight into ITM. Everybody has some other musical background.
"...a bunch of people ......facing each other.... and not caring....."
A most effective hostility breeding strategy.
What can I say, it happens, I HAVE learned not to fish for compliments.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Owell Mabee
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
"He painted a picture of how wierd it is to have a bunch of people in a corner of a pub facing each other playing a combination of the most aggravating instruments on the face of the earth, playing the same melody line, and not caring if anyone in the establishment is listening or enjoying."
That's amazing... this is exactly the way a lot of people in here described their session to demonstrate that it wasn't a public performance. (except for the "aggravating instruments" part)
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Don't go there Jack, please. If you touch that brown button it might all explode again
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Donough
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
ITM sessions fit in with the regular clientele better in some pubs than others. The music may be treated as Nuisance, Tolerated, Background Music, Minor attraction or Major Drawcard by the punters that happen to be there. I certainly wouldn't take it personally any more than I would take it personally if a punter came up and said how much they enjoyed listening to the session.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Donough
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
I was in a local Irish pub owned by a friend of mine from Dublin who likes that "staccato" Irish music, as he calls it. It sounded like Sweeny's Men was on the CD player behind the bar and I asked the barman (he’s Irish) if that's what it was. He said, "Hell if I know, I couldn't care less about that diddly-di crap." Funny thing is, he was the barman when we had our sessions in there. I had no idea he was so hostile towards it.
Also… an incensed cook holding a machete demanding that I stop playing Irish music once threatened me from the other side of the college radio studio’s window. I guess it's very moving for some folks.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Heh heh, spot on, man. I fear that's the unavoidable choice: either play what people like, or play what you like, and don't get bitter that others don't compliment you. Rather be thankful if from time to time you find someone that will give you due credit.
In here, for example, I have this feeling that most gigs we do for general public (i.e. not-Irish-music-fans) leaves people cold or mildly interested. But what do you want? We decided to play more or less traditional style, not shantie-shmantie-pop with a mixture of the Pogues, and we have what we wanted. We don't sing almost at all, and all the melodies are just the same for the people, be it jigs, reels, barndances, laridees, horas or klezmer. Can't blame them.
Also, if you sit in the corner, your back to the punter crowd, why on Earth should you expect to be appreciated? It's like signalling "we don't want to have anything with you, stay away". Customers are the primary care and concern of the pub owner, the guy who pays the piper. So what do you do apart from making racket in the pub?
(Don't take it personally, I wouldn't ever want to be offensive, just to give you a different perspective)
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by EastPole
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Sessions in the UK have always flourished best where the social context supports them. REAL Irish pubs, which are fairly rare now but more common in the 70s, where the music provided the punters with a link to home. A supportive landlord- this is the best way of surviving these days. A pub with a regular quiet night, so that they are glad to have ANYONE in. A landlord whose attitude is to have things going on rather than just milk the place for maximum income.
As for the music played, if you arrange it to please the punters, it's not a session, it's a band. Both have their place, but they are different things.
Free beer is fairly uncommon over here, I only know of one that does it just now, and then it's only the one pint., and limited to the "serious" musicians (there is a sort of allocation procedure). It's not in the list and I'm not telling you where it is because you'll only sup it all before I get there.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by LastToFinish
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
"As for the music played, if you arrange it to please the punters, it's not a session, it's a band. Both have their place, but they are different things."
It's not a session if it pleases the punters?
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Luap didn't say "its not a session if you please the punters".
What Luap said was "if you arrange it to please the punters, its not a session".
I agree 100% with what Laup said, but not with what he didn't (IYSWIM)
- Chris
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Whether you like it or not, if it doesn't please the punters to some extent, they'll stop coming, and the session will cease to exist, and we'll get more hurt & bewildered posts asking " ...... but WHY?" I don't mean arranging it to please the punters - we're at least presuming that the punters appreciate the spontaneity of the session - but I do mean playing in a way that can be heard by people other than the musicians, and not behaving as if you're in a private folk club, especially if you're not a regular at the pub you're playing in.
Personally, I think it's nice when you get a free drink or two, but I'd throw out everyone who thinks it's theirs by right, just for turning up. That just gets people's backs up and is a death wish for the session.
Paul or luap has it right about the" A pub with a regular quiet night, so that they are glad to have ANYONE in".
But after it gets established, management can change - or quickly forget - and they see the musicians as a nuisance to rather than the cause of the extra business they're getting. And some musicians get arrogant and forget that they're in a public place - usually the ones who never drank in that pub (and are maybe not usually pub-goers at all) but just turned up when they - eventually - heard there was a session.
None of this is all that true for pubs like Sandy Bells which are more famous for their sessions than anything else - but they are few and far between
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Bren
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Do session have to take place in pubs? Does anyone play in a parlor, basement, garage, gym, community center, old folks home, orphanage, gift shop, book shop, prison....? Is the pub a neccessary element of the music?
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by feardearg
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
"punters". This is new to me. Is there a story behind that?
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by feardearg
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
"Punters" = customers, the crowd, civilians, average Joes etc. Used to mean someone betting on a horse or dog race - don't know how or when it changed.
Sessions can take place anywhere. Forcing them into a pub environment can cause tensions if it's not part of the local culture.
But I don't know many musicians around here who'd come to a sesh anywhere but a pub. Maybe because their houses are a tip/tiny/devoid of drink/full of family wanting to watch Coronation St etc.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Bren
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Thanks, all. I feel better.
I still wonder where everyone else was tonight. I wonder if the doorman....naaaaaah.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by feardearg
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
If the landlord is getting you in to increase revenue, not because he simply loves music, he should be paying you in some way. I should imagine that bar staff who DON'T like the music (and why should they), and are forced to listen to it for hours on end, probably find it intensely irritating.
Every session I play at has a landlord that loves the music.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Bren, please stop talking about Sandy Bells, I'm getting homesick again!
Hey guys, if you don't like the pub, it's owner or it's customers - go find another one!
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
I'd like things to get back to the good ol' folk club days, when you went to a room upstairs in the pub dedicated to the music, where devotees came and listened in silence and musicians played and sang their hearts out to an appreciative audience. Anyone could come, provided they paid a miniscule fee and provided they agreed to be quiet. It was absolutely great.
Sessions are great, of course, but a poor substitute for the real thing because of all we've read in this post, but it's all we've got now. I'm with Ptarmigan - it's worth the effort to find the right pub, I guess - shop around.
You can all use my parlour if you like!
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by halfirish
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
O K halfirish, sounds good, get the beer in, we're on our way - what no. bus do we get to your place?
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Great - I'll pick you up in Rochdale town centre if you like. Is that normal or Extra Cold Guiness?
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by halfirish
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
I've been on both sides of the fence. Nobody should apologise for their sesh even if it is a ton of ugly instruments playing monodically (if that's a word). It's not meant to be 'fair'.
But. When I was at college, before I began playing, I worked at a pub where there was a session on a Sunday afternoon. When I started it was pretty lively, lots of musicians, some coming quite a long way. However over the course of about a year it deteriorated very badly, and I & the other girls working began to loathe the musicians with a passion. This sounds mean but we were all kids being paid 3.50 an hour, and it was Sunday dinnertime so we were always hungover & not in the best of humours.
We resented giving them their pints-for-a-pound. They should have been charged *extra*. Also because the landlord fancied that the pub was an arty place, & wanted it to be like a little theatre, the table they sat round was on a kind of stage, so the bathos was multiplied. Irish music might not be to everyone's taste but this wasn't to anyone's; in fact there were bad vibes from the last handful musicians too who were cross about the decline but couldn't stop it getting worse. Maybe as well there were a couple of people competing to be leader, I can't remember (this is a long while ago now). I do remember a couple that had broken up playing 'duelling banjos', & the girl looking beautiful & sad. So, there was lots of bad temper.
It was all worth it in the end because when I started learning I realised I knew the standard tunes. Now I think we were being brats (funny how a change of allegiance does that). Imagine how you'd want to smack a barmaid who calls over to another barmaid, 'remember it's a pound a pint for --- "musicians" '.
The one remaining trauma has been that I come out in hives when I hear Sonny's Mazurka.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by S1obhan
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Siobhan, are you seriously telling me that when Paul struggled in with his Dulcimer, propped it on two chairs, stopped the session dead for 30 minutes while he 'tuned' it, and then launched into a faltering version of Sonny's Mazurka, your heart didn't soar?
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
S1obhán, you should write about this stuff. That kind of thing just washes over me - usually because I'm in an alcohol-fuelled haze.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
You cannot please all of the people all of the time. This is especially true with Irish traditional music. It is not pop music afterall. People have different tastes, and that is OK.
Do you think the doorman likes Guinness?
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Jode
Re: musicians sitting in a circle with their backs to the punters
I've also seen this in singer/songwriter sessions when I lived in Nashville. In particular, the Bluebird Cafe which hosts singer/songwriter sessions has an "in the round" [1] format that they use for some of their sessions.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Aidan HD
Re: where
I've played in a hospital cafeteria. This was at work. (The session originally was in the main foyer, but I guess there were complaints that some of the more uplifting tunes might not be appropriate for friends and family waiting to see patients in life/death situations.)
P.S. the reference to [1] in the previous entry should be:
[1] http://www.bluebirdcafe.com/about/round.shtml
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Aidan HD
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Our band and a few other musicians were at a folk festival and on the Sunday, after playing in the pub all weekend, we were asked if we could play in another room as "we were blocking his bar trade". We suggested we could play in another room in another pub! Anyway we all trooped out and low and behold the pub was empty.
Seems a shame that he was quite happy to take money off the musicians all weekend but suddenly on the Sunday - maybe when he had made enough money - we all have to leave. I think the pub has since changed hands and we were welcome to play all weekend.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by lynzbox
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
We have a great seisun here in NJ and I personally don't give a darn what the public thinks--for the most part though they do seem to enjoy it and are amazed at the fact that we're sitting there playing tunes. The bar owner pays 2 of us to run the seisun while the other join in and we all have a blast...it gets better as the time goes by..
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by fiddlefamily
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Well, I was telling that story against my 19-year-old self to show how evil the bar staff might be. At first working Sundays was such fun, but then the sesh fell on harder times, & now on the other side of the fence I can see the good bits (I did get to learn the tunes after all). But at the time I was very cross. In fact, I was a horrid barmaid. I worked hard but was stroppy with customers.
Conan I'm sure you must have played in sessions with a broken-up couple who have unspoken rows via tunes. Always hilarious. Mark - we'll chat about it off-board...!
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by S1obhan
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Funny - I bet many of these people who complain so loudly against ITM have seen (and very likely own a copy of) Riverdance or Celtic Tiger or Celtic Women and LOVED them. Idiots! LOL
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by uilleann_craic
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
I thought I'd never hear the end of "that Fandango from Young Guns"
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by Owell Mabee
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Siobhan: I just wanted to check that you don't still loathe those musicians with a vengeance. After all I was one of them until the terminal session decline and I don't like to think that someone is out there sending bad vibes in my direction
I sort of miss those days - the grumpy bar staff, the banjo arguments, that man who stood facing the wall tweeting on the whistle frantically all the time, the cake, Rita glaring at me as she played long sets of 15 polkas, the constant sound of keys bashing on beer glasses. But not Sonny's Mazurka.
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by JerryH
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Just joined the session and relate to this one been there and seen it.Although I am a singer and in the past have done mainly singer sessions-sometimes we had a mixture of both and it was great.I used to hate the in fighting between singers and instrumentalists at some of the festival sessions and pub one's too.But on some occassions we would mix the session with singers and instrumentalists abd we would do two for us and one for the punters.
I dont mean pop for the punters but just the very well known songs or tunes they sometimes join in.Also the instrumentalists would sometimes take a very well known popular mainstream song-slip it into the middle of a trad set and the pinters would love it -not knowing that we were just having fun sending it up.Especially tunes with a comedy theme to them.
Once in a session with four fiddlers, total strangers who slipped in a set that included "suicide is painless(mash),the funeral march,stairway to heaven,auld lang syne and deil among the tailors" the neutrals loved it.
Other one we did often was a canadian barn dance of sorts that included among trad tunes-yellow submarine-monty pythons flying circus, and some others I dont remember.
We also always picked the centre point of any pub and never hid ourselves from the audience so that we could involve them in a bit of the craic-had lots of great sessions this way with lots of neutrals around too.
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by Celtic Horizon
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
No no no no! No bad vibes! I wouldn't have posted it unless I thought you guys knew what I was talking about and that you knew I didn't mean you!! And I'm not backpedalling, it really was great until suddenly, it wasn't. There was this lovely bodhran guy with a beard who gave me loads of print-offs of tunes, & a shy fiddler called Colin (I can't remember Rita though or the whistler), & my friend Clodagh who played piano accordion, and the fiddle guy who came from a long way to teach a class first. But I think at some point you all disappeared to the Elm Tree.
Um - I did notice who was a strong musician & to be pleased when you turned up, but once it got to the point of no return we did tar everyone with the same brush. Memories hazy but I can't remember you being there at the end when there were three or four people. I'm not going to pretend we weren't horrible (the staff I mean, I'm not being royal). It all looks different on the outside.
There was one guy & the landlord said 'oh don't be too hard on him, his wife doesn't let him practice at home'. And we could see why. He certainly made up for lost time by starting every other tune.
If you're in Slough this weekend (if I make it) we should try & reconstruct the memories, because I've forgotten a lot (& it's easier to be garrulous in real life; there isn't a permanent reminder of your b*tchiness blinking back at you from cyberspace for eternity).
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by S1obhan
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Which good old days had the music upstairs, halfirish? Certainly not the 70s in Manchester- at least a dozen pubs with the music in the bar/ lounge. We used to go to the Exile most. Everyone talked through the tunes as a matter of course- it was expected. But stopped for slow airs and songs. The crowd were mostly Irish anyway, so there was no conflict at all with the regulars. And NO free beer unless you were Joe Burke or someone like that.
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by LastToFinish
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
What the bottom line is is that to a lot of people, irish is "ethnic music." The melodies aren't at all familiar to people, and there are no words to sing along to. The point of a session isn't to please the crowd; at that point it becomes a show which is an entirely different thing. The point is to go out, have fun, learn some tunes and take advantage of any free/ discounted drinks the bar has to offer. The bar owner/ staff may not like the music, but generally a session is allowed because the musicians are good customers and add to the atmosphere. Just make sure to tip well and treat the staff like gold. That'll keep them happy, and as long as the occasional fast fiddle tune comes out, the crowd will be too.
Put it this way; how many of you like traditional indian music, or greek, or chinese for example. These are all traditional music, and certainly not to everyone's taste. When I go out for sushi, I may not want to hear bloody koto music for an hour, but I can't deny that it does add to the ambience.
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by downtowndalebrown
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
S1obhan, was that the session where Danny played fiddle every Sunday? (I played concertina and used to hitch a lift with the fiddle guy who came from a long way away to teach a class first). For us, the heart went out of it when Danny died, and a lot of the (mainly Irish) locals melted away over the next few weeks. I often wondered what happened to that session - we never intended to stop going, just other things tended to be allowed to get in the way of it more. I did wonder sometimes what the overworked bar staff thought ot it!
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by Pippa
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
> No no no no! No bad vibes!
Phew!
Yes, I'll be at Slough this weekend. It should be a good one.
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by JerryH
Re: Ugly Experience at Pub
Yes - that sesh - I began working shortly before he died when things were still raring. I remember being told to give him double helpings on his red wine! A framed photo of him was kept behind the bar - he was a true gent.
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by S1obhan