As a player of the bodhran I thought it was about time to contribute to the debate on this much misunderstood instrument. I know there are some who think that a drum has no place in traditional Irish music but my personal view is that in the right tune it can really enhance it. I believe there are 3 golden rules to bodhran playing in a session: (1) only one bodhran at a time, (2) keep it simple and (3) don’t feel obliged to accompany every tune. I have played in sessions where there have been several bodhrans all playing at the same time and it has sounded awful. God only knows what the prima donnas on the fiddles thought. The second rule, keep it simple, is also important. All this stuff about moving your hand across the skin to vary the pitch is unnecessary. By all means use your hand to dampen the sound but there is no need to move it around. I read in one of the many discussions on this superb instrument that some players are inclined to attend a session after little more experience than playing along with their Chieftains CDs. I can think of worse ways to learn. The early Chieftains albums include many examples of fine bodhran playing and if you listen carefully I think that you will find that there is only one, he keeps it simple and sometimes it is not there at all.
Thumper, I'm not too sure about all of your rules!
(1) only one bodhran at a time.
(2) keep it simple.
(3) don’t feel obliged to accompany every tune.
1 - If these rules were appropriate, then shouldn't we be able to apply them to all traditional instruments in a session, in which case we must throw No 1 out straight away.
Can you see the fiddlers or flute players agreeing to an 'only one playing at a time' rule?
2 - If you asked all musicians to 'keep it simple', after all the hours they had spent practicing up those delicious twiddly bits, I think you might hear some choice language!
3 - If folks have gone to the bother of learning a tune, they usually want to play it & won't wish to spend too much of, perhaps their only weekly session, just sitting listening.
Perhaps you should re-think these rules. After all, if you make rules for one instrument, then surely they must then apply to all the instruments at the session?
Now, to qualify my remarks, I also think the best sessions sound much better if there is no more than one Bodhran, or one Banjo, or one Accordion, or one Concertina, but that's only my personal opinion & I certainly don't feel I should impose my rules on others, so I regard the above as simply my opinion.
I'm guessing you play the banjo too?
If so, do you agree that one banjo is more than enough in any session?
I love the sound of a well played Bodhran, when, as you say, they are keeping it fairly simple, but then I dislike the 'show-offs', no matter what instrument they are playing!
A brilliant musician is one thing, but a show off is something else & let's be honest, they rarely listen to anyone else, so are hardly likely to take head of any rules!
I agree that if we're going to impose rules on one instrument then we should set rules for all of them. And then we should just go ahead and standardize the music and prescribe set parts and before you know it everyone will be playing classical music! Yay!
In all seriousness, I have heard some amazing bodhran players (bodrhanists, bodhraners?) who use the movement of their hand to change the pitch and it is incredibly wonderful. I have been able to recognize some songs from a solo bodhran and the variations of the pitch.
Anyways, I pretty agree with Ptarmigan. I don't think that it is fair to look down at someone for their choice of instrument. As a fiddle player I love a solid rhythm section.
I play with a re-enactment dance band where I'm the only fiddler, we have one hammer dulcimer and then a banjo, double bass, and two rhythmists. The feel and flow of the music is spectacular. When I take melody everyone else is playing rhythm of some sort behind me and it sounds spectacular. The same is true when others take melody. I would never want to lose even one of our rhythm instrumentalists. Besides, when you are playing for waltzes and such most people just want to here the Boom-swish-swish of the bass and rhythm toys. The melody and all is just ear-candy. All's our dancers really need is the rhythm. Interesting thought isn't it. . .
Well I don't know. I've been playing the bodhrán for 25 years (my hand's really tired now) and I think there are certain guidelines, open to interpretation,which apply specifically to bodhrán's.
The one- bodhrán rule: at a pinch you can get away with 2, as long as they play relatively quietly (what are the chances?) and play different registers - in which case someone's gonna need to move their hand. Think of a pop group - lead and rhythm guitar but only one drum kit with bass and snare in tandem. Not necessarily applicable to all instruments.
Diddly bits: It takes practice to master all the subtleties but sensitivity to know when to use them. Often it's best to keep it simple. As usual,it depends.
Dropping out: You don't need to play in every tune in a set or even in every set. If the music is quiet or there's a good solo which won't be enhanced by a bodhrán, drop out! Use your ears and your good sense.
I think hair is very important and clean underpants and every bodhran player should have them inspected before joining the sesh,by all those wonderful fault-free melody players with wings and halos. You know the ones! they are the players who totally ignore all the beaut rules they impose on drumbangers.
Have a long, hard look at yerselves!
Whether bodran or otherwise, all contributors need to know where to back off, attach fiddly bit or really stick it to the tune to get the most out of it.
Noodling over the top of a tune with any instrument is distracting and mundane
I especially like the suggestions here to keep bodhran playing simple and to know the tune. First, if you remember that this music is dance music, you'll see that the goal of bodhran playing should be to bring out the rhythm enough so that you make it easier for dancers (whether real or imagined) to pick up the beat. Anything that would distract or confuse dancers is bad.
Second, since what you should be aiming at is to bring out something that's already in the tune (and the dance), you must know the tune. For instance, don't try to impose a syncopated rhythm on a tune that doesn't have one. Many tunes have little bits that can be played with or without syncopation, but you must know what those are beforehand, or have a good ear, to recognize where it's appropriate to use any kind of "fancy" techniques.
Yes, I agree. Apply the same rules to orchestra, there's only one triangle so there should be only one violin. There are TWO kettledrums, though, so we should have two double basses and two contrabassoons. But only one person should play each of them.
In other words, don't be daft. The session runs on tunes. Instruments that play the tunes can be accommodated without problems (usually). Anything that swamps the other musicians (piano accordians, saxophones, Great Highland bagpipes) can be tolerated in small doses. Guitars play chordal accompaniment and rhythm. A number can be accommodated as long as they don't swamp the tunes, and get the chords right. Bodhrans, bones, African speaking drums, didgeridoos, 50ps rattled on pint pots, and spoons provide pure rhythmic background. If they don't swamp the tunes and get the rhythm right they are fine.
Sometimes a musician of any category adds to the music whatever they are playing. It's part of being in a session to notice such people and promote them accordingly.
As for dance music, it's EX- dance music. I've hardly ever seen a dancer in a session, even then only as a special exhibition piece. It's session music, whatever that is.
Sort of off the point here, but you know how everyone goes on about the bodhran being 18th century (or something like that) and that it was originally a farm yard tool (again, or something like that).
Well, I always thought that was an attampt to bring the bodhran down, saying that people only started playing as an after thought, BUT, there are references in the bible to (again, something like this),'A circular drum held sideways and played with a stick'. It could have been a precurser to the tambourine.
Anyway...to get back ON topic, I have to go clean my room so bye for now.
This horse has been dead and beaten so long that it must surely be petrified by now. Beating a stone! Well I guess the animal rights folks are happier than if we were still beating a horse, dead or otherwise.
My view on rules is very simple. At one time we were given ten, then we concocted let’s say about 600 million kajillion on top of those and still there are some that don’t follow even the original ten.
Now I have found that those who do follow the rules do so irrespective of the fact that there is such a rule to follow.
My conclusion is simply that the people that don’t follow the rules simply will not and those that do need not have a rule to do so, so why bother having rules.
I agree with bodhran bliss' "firdt" and "second" rules; a bodhrán player must listen. In the session I regularly attend, there's one other main bodhránii and he sometimes works out whether the tune is a jig or a reel, or whatever, and plays the rhythm in his head. Thing with sessions, and lots of live music, is it's subject to changes in speed throughout, so he can end up seeming to drive the music with his playing, which is a no-go. The bodhrán is an accompanying instrument; and never the conducting one. It needs to follow the tune, not try to make the tune follow it. So yes, a bodhrán player must listen, and follow.
As for keeping it simple: yes, to a point. As long as you recognise the difference between "simple" and "boring". When I started learning about moving my other hand, it opened up a new world of sounds I could create, and to ignore it would be daft. That's not to say I'll use that technique in every tune; but just that it's another skill I have access to so I can keep my playing fresh and interesting.
I'm in somewhat agreement of the one drum at a time thing. Particularly if you play with someone competative. Then it becomes more like playing against them, rather than with them. At my session, if halfway through the guy puts down his whistle and picks up his drum, I'm likely to either quieten right down, or put mine down. He plays really loud!
I don't want to tell this person not to, or how to play. But I must say, those sessions where you get more than one, or two, or even three bodhrans can be a grind. They drown me out.
Same goes for guitarists.
And definitely for Accordian players. Especially for the guys who grind those big piano-accordians.
But then again, I play mandolin. That means that 9 times out of 10, I'm gonna get drowned out anyway regardles. So to me, bodhrans aren't any more of a problem than everything else is.
Agree whole heartedly thumper, except for you comments about the necessity of pitch variation. To me, the key to effectively contributing to a session on a backing instrument is the musicality of your choices. Take a guitar for example, if you were to play only the chords that represent the key center of each section (Gmaj for the A section and Emin for the B section for example) it would be appropriate harmonically but isn't really contributing anything to the tunes in terms of highlighting passages, creating tension etc. The same goes (in my opinion) with the bodhran. If you play one sound, at an appropriate dynamic and in time with the tune then it is by all means appropriate, however i think that once this has been mastered, the introduction of pitch variation can drastically increase the musicality of the part.
I'd also like to add (sorry it's long i know) that i believe both backing players and melody players can benefit from spending some time in the other camp. Backing players that also play tunes seem to have a better understanding of how to phrase their parts within the context of a particular tune, and melody players that have also backed tunes seem to adapt more easily to some of those obscure syncopations that we like to throw in from time to time. Obviously both of these outcomes can also be achieved by simply having big ears (not literally :p) and being sensitive to what's going on around you.
Anyways, I'm Kent Brockman, and that's my two cents!!!
Thanks to everyone who has posted to this discussion. I think it itsthe most intelligent discussion I have seen about the bodhran. Of course, my "rules" are only a starting point and and as experience develops these disappear. A lot of the criticism I see about the bodhran could, I think, be avoided if my 3 rules were followed, particularly for those like myself who are relative beginners. As regards my rule of only one bodhran then my own view is that some instruments are best on there own, particularly non-melody instruments. 2 fiddles ok, 2 pipes not ok. 2 banjos playing melody not for me (yes I also play the banjo) but one playing melody and the other playing chords I like. I guess a lot is personal choice and if you are lucky enough tol find like minded musicians then you will have a whole lotta fun.
First rule is play to the music instead of over the top of it. One at a time is realistic. The Cheiftains on the DVD "Water from the Well" had several tracks with Matt's pub full of fiddlers, flute players, etc... and only Kevin Conneff on bodhran in the corner. He alone handled the percussion quite well. I would highly recommend this DVD to study Kevin's style and in general for good music.
Changing the pitch with backslide techniques similarly can not be done effectively unless it is played compatibly with the music. Johnny McDonagh pioneered this technique and demonstrates excellent backslide through the years with Mary Bergin (Feodoga Stain) and with Eileen Ivers before she moved from the middle of the road to off the road entirely.
Bliss: long time - no read. How are you doing? I suppose a "Session Master" sounds better than a "Master Baker."
Hey guys, it's all very well to say only one Bodhran at a time, but just imagine this situation.
A first class player travels 30 miles to a weekly session, so is it fair to expect him to sit quiet while great music is going on around him, just to allow a couple of complete no hopers their turn to beat the sh*t out of their bin lids - all for the sake of somebody else's 'rule'!
As with lots of things, reality is a little more complicated & I'm not convinced these rules are workable!
Quite correct, Mr Ptarmigan, but again tact and decorum can usually save the day. If not an honest "that sounds dreadful. If you really want to learn listen to me, now try a simple steady rhythm, etc, etc, etc,.."usually works. If all this fails a simple two word request, such as "#### up" always works. We are not social workers after all.
Our aim should be to encourage and help, and honesty is a good way of doing that.
How's tricks, Ceol? I have been devoting my time to political sites, you can really start a row on them.
I've been following this with with intermittent sad exhalations and deep sighs. I've been warned off "contributing" to bodhran discussions, but I just can't help myself ...
Somebody mentioned earlier a whistle player who puts his whistle down half way through a tune and picks up his bodhran, even when there's another drum already being banged. I really do despair.
Then I got to thinking about what goes on in peoples heads when they list the bodhran as "one" of the instrument they play. I just don't get it. If you play tunes, you play tunes. Why on earth would you want to stop playing the tune and just bang away to it instead? I just don't get it.
I suppose I have some sympathy for those who only play the bodhran. They obviously just don't get what tunes are about, and they honestly believe they contribute. At least they are not liars, even if they are deluded.
And then there's this thing of shifting your hand about in the back of the drum. Christ, what a racket. I had the misfortune of having this in my ear the other week. "Notes" dancing around all over the place with absolutely no relation to pitch. And don't give me that nonsense about "if it's done properly it IS in tune". crap. It's like so tone deaf.
But I don't want to end on such a depressing note, It is possible to play the thing in tune. Though not easy, and you can onlly do it slowly, and you can really only tune two notes, three at the most. I beg you all to listen to my favorite bit of bodhran bashing ever. Donal Lunny with Frank Harte singing Shan Van Vocht. Beautiful tone, very very soft, beautifully in tune. Beautiful
Bliss: I've been doing the same thing here. Have to fight against Gee Dubya Bush.
Gill-Gill-Gill: Still as trad retentive as possible but moving an inch at a time. Wake me up when you get to the 21st century. I'll respond at that point.
The one bodhran at a time rule is right. The bodhran is a back-up instrument and the rules are different for those than for the melody instruments. In the same way you don't have 2 pianos, guitars, or bouzoukis -- you shouldn't have more than one bodhran as well. The only exception would be if you have prearranged parts to play together. But people at sessions aren't usually playing intricate arrangements like that.
Mr Gill knows something, he was astute enough to realise that the bodhran is Donal Lunny's true instrument. Playing by hand, lovely with songs but not so effective with tunes.
Mr Gill also knows moving your hand all over the place is not required, sometimes effective with a bodhran and one other instrument, once a night, but not required useually. You just need to rest your hand on the back of the drum, and lift it on and off as required.
Bliss: I probably would appreciate your playing very much, if not playing with you just for the hell of it. Is that two bodhrans at the same time with no other instruments but just having as much fun as we could? And maybe all the (bleep) retentive trads in the place fainting dead away?
I'm trying to get America out of Iraq here, and involved with curevents.com. I would more than welcome some people from Ireland, the UK and Europe to help change opinions in the US and get the UK and US out of Iraq.
Hmm, the age old discussion once again. Coincidentally I just watched the Planxty DVD last night and have to note both Donal Lunny and Christy Moore were playing their bodhrans TOGETHER for a tune or two. The issue isn't number of bodhrans so much as it is playing together and listening to each other. One bodhran played badly is much worse than two played well.
If there are two bodhrans at the sessions I go to we usually take turns but sometimes will play togther with one taking a basic rhythm and the other playing more ornaments. I agree 100% on not playing every tune, there are many tunes for which a bodhran is not well-suited. I also agree knowing the tune makes a world of difference.
Not use the left hand? I disagree, I can't think of a current top bodhran player who does not use the left hand extensively, including Kevin Conneff. In fact on Water From the Well he's throwing ornaments all over the place, the key is he knows how to make them add to the sound and not subtract.
Some will say "yeah but it isn't top bodhran players at our session so they should just shut up". There's a certain amount of truth there, beginners should stick to basic stuff but there is a certain learning process that goes on with any instrument. Demanding players of any instrument avoid ornaments until they are experts seems a bit unreasonable.
I admit it.......I play the bodhran
I admit it.......I play the bodhran
As a player of the bodhran I thought it was about time to contribute to the debate on this much misunderstood instrument. I know there are some who think that a drum has no place in traditional Irish music but my personal view is that in the right tune it can really enhance it. I believe there are 3 golden rules to bodhran playing in a session: (1) only one bodhran at a time, (2) keep it simple and (3) don’t feel obliged to accompany every tune. I have played in sessions where there have been several bodhrans all playing at the same time and it has sounded awful. God only knows what the prima donnas on the fiddles thought. The second rule, keep it simple, is also important. All this stuff about moving your hand across the skin to vary the pitch is unnecessary. By all means use your hand to dampen the sound but there is no need to move it around. I read in one of the many discussions on this superb instrument that some players are inclined to attend a session after little more experience than playing along with their Chieftains CDs. I can think of worse ways to learn. The early Chieftains albums include many examples of fine bodhran playing and if you listen carefully I think that you will find that there is only one, he keeps it simple and sometimes it is not there at all.
# Posted on October 25th 2005 by Thumper
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
That is some good advice for Bodhran players. Bodhrans sound good sometimes other times they just suck it is that simple.
# Posted on October 25th 2005 by Unseen122
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
unseen122 - Don't you mean - All traditional instruments sound good!
However, sometimes they just suck, but this is usually down to the 'musician' who is playing them!
# Posted on October 25th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
Thumper, I'm not too sure about all of your rules!
(1) only one bodhran at a time.
(2) keep it simple.
(3) don’t feel obliged to accompany every tune.
1 - If these rules were appropriate, then shouldn't we be able to apply them to all traditional instruments in a session, in which case we must throw No 1 out straight away.
Can you see the fiddlers or flute players agreeing to an 'only one playing at a time' rule?
2 - If you asked all musicians to 'keep it simple', after all the hours they had spent practicing up those delicious twiddly bits, I think you might hear some choice language!
3 - If folks have gone to the bother of learning a tune, they usually want to play it & won't wish to spend too much of, perhaps their only weekly session, just sitting listening.
Perhaps you should re-think these rules. After all, if you make rules for one instrument, then surely they must then apply to all the instruments at the session?
Now, to qualify my remarks, I also think the best sessions sound much better if there is no more than one Bodhran, or one Banjo, or one Accordion, or one Concertina, but that's only my personal opinion & I certainly don't feel I should impose my rules on others, so I regard the above as simply my opinion.
I'm guessing you play the banjo too?
If so, do you agree that one banjo is more than enough in any session?
I love the sound of a well played Bodhran, when, as you say, they are keeping it fairly simple, but then I dislike the 'show-offs', no matter what instrument they are playing!
A brilliant musician is one thing, but a show off is something else & let's be honest, they rarely listen to anyone else, so are hardly likely to take head of any rules!
# Posted on October 25th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
A bodhran player must listen. That is the firdt rule.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
And the second, seeing that I can't spell first.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
I agree that if we're going to impose rules on one instrument then we should set rules for all of them. And then we should just go ahead and standardize the music and prescribe set parts and before you know it everyone will be playing classical music! Yay!
In all seriousness, I have heard some amazing bodhran players (bodrhanists, bodhraners?) who use the movement of their hand to change the pitch and it is incredibly wonderful. I have been able to recognize some songs from a solo bodhran and the variations of the pitch.
Anyways, I pretty agree with Ptarmigan. I don't think that it is fair to look down at someone for their choice of instrument. As a fiddle player I love a solid rhythm section.
I play with a re-enactment dance band where I'm the only fiddler, we have one hammer dulcimer and then a banjo, double bass, and two rhythmists. The feel and flow of the music is spectacular. When I take melody everyone else is playing rhythm of some sort behind me and it sounds spectacular. The same is true when others take melody. I would never want to lose even one of our rhythm instrumentalists. Besides, when you are playing for waltzes and such most people just want to here the Boom-swish-swish of the bass and rhythm toys. The melody and all is just ear-candy. All's our dancers really need is the rhythm. Interesting thought isn't it. . .
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by musicfan
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
Well I don't know. I've been playing the bodhrán for 25 years (my hand's really tired now) and I think there are certain guidelines, open to interpretation,which apply specifically to bodhrán's.
The one- bodhrán rule: at a pinch you can get away with 2, as long as they play relatively quietly (what are the chances?) and play different registers - in which case someone's gonna need to move their hand. Think of a pop group - lead and rhythm guitar but only one drum kit with bass and snare in tandem. Not necessarily applicable to all instruments.
Diddly bits: It takes practice to master all the subtleties but sensitivity to know when to use them. Often it's best to keep it simple. As usual,it depends.
Dropping out: You don't need to play in every tune in a set or even in every set. If the music is quiet or there's a good solo which won't be enhanced by a bodhrán, drop out! Use your ears and your good sense.
Here endeth the drivel.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Conán McDonnell
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
I think hair is very important and clean underpants and every bodhran player should have them inspected before joining the sesh,by all those wonderful fault-free melody players with wings and halos. You know the ones! they are the players who totally ignore all the beaut rules they impose on drumbangers.
Have a long, hard look at yerselves!
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by mcknowall
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
4) Know the tune
Whether bodran or otherwise, all contributors need to know where to back off, attach fiddly bit or really stick it to the tune to get the most out of it.
Noodling over the top of a tune with any instrument is distracting and mundane
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by harrywhohaa
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
I especially like the suggestions here to keep bodhran playing simple and to know the tune. First, if you remember that this music is dance music, you'll see that the goal of bodhran playing should be to bring out the rhythm enough so that you make it easier for dancers (whether real or imagined) to pick up the beat. Anything that would distract or confuse dancers is bad.
Second, since what you should be aiming at is to bring out something that's already in the tune (and the dance), you must know the tune. For instance, don't try to impose a syncopated rhythm on a tune that doesn't have one. Many tunes have little bits that can be played with or without syncopation, but you must know what those are beforehand, or have a good ear, to recognize where it's appropriate to use any kind of "fancy" techniques.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by smw
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
Yes, I agree. Apply the same rules to orchestra, there's only one triangle so there should be only one violin. There are TWO kettledrums, though, so we should have two double basses and two contrabassoons. But only one person should play each of them.
In other words, don't be daft. The session runs on tunes. Instruments that play the tunes can be accommodated without problems (usually). Anything that swamps the other musicians (piano accordians, saxophones, Great Highland bagpipes) can be tolerated in small doses. Guitars play chordal accompaniment and rhythm. A number can be accommodated as long as they don't swamp the tunes, and get the chords right. Bodhrans, bones, African speaking drums, didgeridoos, 50ps rattled on pint pots, and spoons provide pure rhythmic background. If they don't swamp the tunes and get the rhythm right they are fine.
Sometimes a musician of any category adds to the music whatever they are playing. It's part of being in a session to notice such people and promote them accordingly.
As for dance music, it's EX- dance music. I've hardly ever seen a dancer in a session, even then only as a special exhibition piece. It's session music, whatever that is.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by LastToFinish
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
Sort of off the point here, but you know how everyone goes on about the bodhran being 18th century (or something like that) and that it was originally a farm yard tool (again, or something like that).
Well, I always thought that was an attampt to bring the bodhran down, saying that people only started playing as an after thought, BUT, there are references in the bible to (again, something like this),'A circular drum held sideways and played with a stick'. It could have been a precurser to the tambourine.
Anyway...to get back ON topic, I have to go clean my room so bye for now.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Folkie Junkie
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
This horse has been dead and beaten so long that it must surely be petrified by now. Beating a stone! Well I guess the animal rights folks are happier than if we were still beating a horse, dead or otherwise.
My view on rules is very simple. At one time we were given ten, then we concocted let’s say about 600 million kajillion on top of those and still there are some that don’t follow even the original ten.
Now I have found that those who do follow the rules do so irrespective of the fact that there is such a rule to follow.
My conclusion is simply that the people that don’t follow the rules simply will not and those that do need not have a rule to do so, so why bother having rules.
Peace,
Ed
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by ejsant
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
I agree with bodhran bliss' "firdt" and "second" rules; a bodhrán player must listen. In the session I regularly attend, there's one other main bodhránii and he sometimes works out whether the tune is a jig or a reel, or whatever, and plays the rhythm in his head. Thing with sessions, and lots of live music, is it's subject to changes in speed throughout, so he can end up seeming to drive the music with his playing, which is a no-go. The bodhrán is an accompanying instrument; and never the conducting one. It needs to follow the tune, not try to make the tune follow it. So yes, a bodhrán player must listen, and follow.
As for keeping it simple: yes, to a point. As long as you recognise the difference between "simple" and "boring". When I started learning about moving my other hand, it opened up a new world of sounds I could create, and to ignore it would be daft. That's not to say I'll use that technique in every tune; but just that it's another skill I have access to so I can keep my playing fresh and interesting.
I'm in somewhat agreement of the one drum at a time thing. Particularly if you play with someone competative. Then it becomes more like playing against them, rather than with them. At my session, if halfway through the guy puts down his whistle and picks up his drum, I'm likely to either quieten right down, or put mine down. He plays really loud!
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by kaytee83
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
I don't want to tell this person not to, or how to play. But I must say, those sessions where you get more than one, or two, or even three bodhrans can be a grind. They drown me out.
Same goes for guitarists.
And definitely for Accordian players. Especially for the guys who grind those big piano-accordians.
But then again, I play mandolin. That means that 9 times out of 10, I'm gonna get drowned out anyway regardles. So to me, bodhrans aren't any more of a problem than everything else is.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Deaf Frets
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
Agree whole heartedly thumper, except for you comments about the necessity of pitch variation. To me, the key to effectively contributing to a session on a backing instrument is the musicality of your choices. Take a guitar for example, if you were to play only the chords that represent the key center of each section (Gmaj for the A section and Emin for the B section for example) it would be appropriate harmonically but isn't really contributing anything to the tunes in terms of highlighting passages, creating tension etc. The same goes (in my opinion) with the bodhran. If you play one sound, at an appropriate dynamic and in time with the tune then it is by all means appropriate, however i think that once this has been mastered, the introduction of pitch variation can drastically increase the musicality of the part.
I'd also like to add (sorry it's long i know) that i believe both backing players and melody players can benefit from spending some time in the other camp. Backing players that also play tunes seem to have a better understanding of how to phrase their parts within the context of a particular tune, and melody players that have also backed tunes seem to adapt more easily to some of those obscure syncopations that we like to throw in from time to time. Obviously both of these outcomes can also be achieved by simply having big ears (not literally :p) and being sensitive to what's going on around you.
Anyways, I'm Kent Brockman, and that's my two cents!!!
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by late in the evening
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
Thanks to everyone who has posted to this discussion. I think it itsthe most intelligent discussion I have seen about the bodhran. Of course, my "rules" are only a starting point and and as experience develops these disappear. A lot of the criticism I see about the bodhran could, I think, be avoided if my 3 rules were followed, particularly for those like myself who are relative beginners. As regards my rule of only one bodhran then my own view is that some instruments are best on there own, particularly non-melody instruments. 2 fiddles ok, 2 pipes not ok. 2 banjos playing melody not for me (yes I also play the banjo) but one playing melody and the other playing chords I like. I guess a lot is personal choice and if you are lucky enough tol find like minded musicians then you will have a whole lotta fun.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by Thumper
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
Allow for intelligence. Recently we had three bodhrans, four guitars and one fiddle, but obviously we didn't all play at once.
Mind you at our sessions you can only play a tune if I say so.
# Posted on October 26th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
First rule is play to the music instead of over the top of it. One at a time is realistic. The Cheiftains on the DVD "Water from the Well" had several tracks with Matt's pub full of fiddlers, flute players, etc... and only Kevin Conneff on bodhran in the corner. He alone handled the percussion quite well. I would highly recommend this DVD to study Kevin's style and in general for good music.
Changing the pitch with backslide techniques similarly can not be done effectively unless it is played compatibly with the music. Johnny McDonagh pioneered this technique and demonstrates excellent backslide through the years with Mary Bergin (Feodoga Stain) and with Eileen Ivers before she moved from the middle of the road to off the road entirely.
Bliss: long time - no read. How are you doing? I suppose a "Session Master" sounds better than a "Master Baker."
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
Hey guys, it's all very well to say only one Bodhran at a time, but just imagine this situation.
A first class player travels 30 miles to a weekly session, so is it fair to expect him to sit quiet while great music is going on around him, just to allow a couple of complete no hopers their turn to beat the sh*t out of their bin lids - all for the sake of somebody else's 'rule'!
As with lots of things, reality is a little more complicated & I'm not convinced these rules are workable!
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
Quite correct, Mr Ptarmigan, but again tact and decorum can usually save the day. If not an honest "that sounds dreadful. If you really want to learn listen to me, now try a simple steady rhythm, etc, etc, etc,.."usually works. If all this fails a simple two word request, such as "#### up" always works. We are not social workers after all.
Our aim should be to encourage and help, and honesty is a good way of doing that.
How's tricks, Ceol? I have been devoting my time to political sites, you can really start a row on them.
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
I've been following this with with intermittent sad exhalations and deep sighs. I've been warned off "contributing" to bodhran discussions, but I just can't help myself ...
Somebody mentioned earlier a whistle player who puts his whistle down half way through a tune and picks up his bodhran, even when there's another drum already being banged. I really do despair.
Then I got to thinking about what goes on in peoples heads when they list the bodhran as "one" of the instrument they play. I just don't get it. If you play tunes, you play tunes. Why on earth would you want to stop playing the tune and just bang away to it instead? I just don't get it.
I suppose I have some sympathy for those who only play the bodhran. They obviously just don't get what tunes are about, and they honestly believe they contribute. At least they are not liars, even if they are deluded.
And then there's this thing of shifting your hand about in the back of the drum. Christ, what a racket. I had the misfortune of having this in my ear the other week. "Notes" dancing around all over the place with absolutely no relation to pitch. And don't give me that nonsense about "if it's done properly it IS in tune". crap. It's like so tone deaf.
But I don't want to end on such a depressing note, It is possible to play the thing in tune. Though not easy, and you can onlly do it slowly, and you can really only tune two notes, three at the most. I beg you all to listen to my favorite bit of bodhran bashing ever. Donal Lunny with Frank Harte singing Shan Van Vocht. Beautiful tone, very very soft, beautifully in tune. Beautiful
# Posted on October 28th 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
Bliss: I've been doing the same thing here. Have to fight against Gee Dubya Bush.
Gill-Gill-Gill: Still as trad retentive as possible but moving an inch at a time. Wake me up when you get to the 21st century. I'll respond at that point.
# Posted on October 28th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
The one bodhran at a time rule is right. The bodhran is a back-up instrument and the rules are different for those than for the melody instruments. In the same way you don't have 2 pianos, guitars, or bouzoukis -- you shouldn't have more than one bodhran as well. The only exception would be if you have prearranged parts to play together. But people at sessions aren't usually playing intricate arrangements like that.
# Posted on October 28th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
crap!
# Posted on October 28th 2005 by mcknowall
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
Mr Gill knows something, he was astute enough to realise that the bodhran is Donal Lunny's true instrument. Playing by hand, lovely with songs but not so effective with tunes.
Mr Gill also knows moving your hand all over the place is not required, sometimes effective with a bodhran and one other instrument, once a night, but not required useually. You just need to rest your hand on the back of the drum, and lift it on and off as required.
You Michael, would really appreciate my playing.
# Posted on October 28th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
Bliss: I probably would appreciate your playing very much, if not playing with you just for the hell of it. Is that two bodhrans at the same time with no other instruments but just having as much fun as we could? And maybe all the (bleep) retentive trads in the place fainting dead away?
I'm trying to get America out of Iraq here, and involved with curevents.com. I would more than welcome some people from Ireland, the UK and Europe to help change opinions in the US and get the UK and US out of Iraq.
# Posted on October 29th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: I admit it.......I play the bodhran
Hmm, the age old discussion once again. Coincidentally I just watched the Planxty DVD last night and have to note both Donal Lunny and Christy Moore were playing their bodhrans TOGETHER for a tune or two. The issue isn't number of bodhrans so much as it is playing together and listening to each other. One bodhran played badly is much worse than two played well.
If there are two bodhrans at the sessions I go to we usually take turns but sometimes will play togther with one taking a basic rhythm and the other playing more ornaments. I agree 100% on not playing every tune, there are many tunes for which a bodhran is not well-suited. I also agree knowing the tune makes a world of difference.
Not use the left hand? I disagree, I can't think of a current top bodhran player who does not use the left hand extensively, including Kevin Conneff. In fact on Water From the Well he's throwing ornaments all over the place, the key is he knows how to make them add to the sound and not subtract.
Some will say "yeah but it isn't top bodhran players at our session so they should just shut up". There's a certain amount of truth there, beginners should stick to basic stuff but there is a certain learning process that goes on with any instrument. Demanding players of any instrument avoid ornaments until they are experts seems a bit unreasonable.
# Posted on October 30th 2005 by Rando