Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
I think the sonic impact is relatively insignificant.
The major modern mandolin types are F-style (such as a Gibson F-5) and simpler tear-drop shaped A-style. Fs are more involved to carve and hence more expensive, though some would dispute they actually sound better than an A. An F does sit easier in your lap.
I'm no expert, but a two-point is a more "modern" 1950s/60s style. Jethro Burns occasionally played two-points, I think. Rigel is one of the few companies making two-points today.
Calling a Japanese Aria "rare" seems a bit of a stretch to me.
An entry-level used Weber, Breedlove, Flatiron or Gibson would probably sound better and hold its value. Check out www.mandolincafe.com for more general information.
Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
I have a 2 point mandolin.I had mine built a long time ago I wanted a new instrument and I liked the looks of the one Jethro Burns played
The luthier,Frank Gay, built it with hollow points.I think Gibsons have solid points and curls.Does this make a big difference?
Not that I have ever noticed.
I think a good "A" style with an oval sound hole would sound the same .
Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
When I was talking with Phil Crump about ordering from him, I chose his B-II two-point design just because I like the look of it. I did ask him if he felt that there were any sonic differences that come from the two-point design and he felt that if there were any, they were negligible.
In reading posts from luthiers on the Mandolin Cafe website, I've seen that some do a little different math with the relationships among the top and back plates and the sides, and the internal volume of the body, when they use two-point designs.
But overall, it seems to be a cosmetic variation.
There have been discussions on the Cafe about how/whether the scroll design of the F-style mandolins affects the sound. I think most of those more or less concluded that there are a lot of other factors that determine the sound to a much greater degree than the scroll, per se.
I don't like all of the 2-pts, I've seen, but I like mine, and I like the Weber Bighorn, Bill Bussman's Old Wave C# models, there are others, too. I'm looking into the cost of a Weber Bighorn octave mandolin...
Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
My lovely two-pointer is a Suzuki, about 25 years old, bright red, made of solid spruce etc. It has an oval hole (to my mind better for Celtic than f-holes but that's debatable)
Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
I've played on 2-pointers, bowlbacks, A, and F-style instruments, but I don't think the 2-point design has any signifigant impact on the sound. As for F-styles, though, I say that the extra space in the bass horn and (usually) larger headstock produce a fuller sound, and I'm convinced that they're a tad louder and sound better.
I've gone around and around with friends on the merits of a having larger body and headstock (heh) and I'm convinced that size DOES matter. If you don't believe me, then just strum up a chord good and loud, and without letting up, use the other hand to tightly grab the stock at the top. Use as many fingers as you can fit on one side and your whole palm on the other. Now listen to how the chord cuts out. You kill the vibration. You can do the same thing with the soundboard, and no one ever says, gee, let's make the soundboard smaller. The strings are anchored at two points on the instrument - the headstock and the bridge. So far, I have gotten *one* instrument tech to agree with me on this point, and the man was a luthier as well, the others were not. Like a soundpost, they transmit the vibration to the geometry of the instrument and that's key to having good tone. I, too, think that an oval soundhole holds up better against louder instruments, but they're a little tougher to bring up in the mix without feedback, if you mic them internally. You could also just raise the bridge and use heavier strings to get a bit more volume.
If you're really chopping or picking hard to compete with louder instruments, it's a *little bit* easier to keep a wedge-shaped headstock in tune. Off topic, but try Seagull 12-string guitars, and then any other model with a long rectangular stock for contrast. It's more dramatic wth that length of a neck and that many strings, but the effect is similar.
Personally, I would think twice about paying that kind of money for an Aria of all makes, and one that I couldn't play first. Would you pay the same for an Epiphone of that year? I think you're you're paying for the shape. I'd be more concerned with the wood and quality of construction than the design. I'll take a solid wood instrument with a carved top/back and tight grain over laminate anything any day.
What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rare-Aria-Two-Point-Mandolin-Model-M-300BS_W0QQitemZ7358147159QQcategoryZ10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
# Posted on October 21st 2005 by John Joe
Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
I think the sonic impact is relatively insignificant.
The major modern mandolin types are F-style (such as a Gibson F-5) and simpler tear-drop shaped A-style. Fs are more involved to carve and hence more expensive, though some would dispute they actually sound better than an A. An F does sit easier in your lap.
I'm no expert, but a two-point is a more "modern" 1950s/60s style. Jethro Burns occasionally played two-points, I think. Rigel is one of the few companies making two-points today.
Calling a Japanese Aria "rare" seems a bit of a stretch to me.
An entry-level used Weber, Breedlove, Flatiron or Gibson would probably sound better and hold its value. Check out www.mandolincafe.com for more general information.
# Posted on October 21st 2005 by Romkey
Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
Lyon & Healy, Vega, Gibson, and probably Martin were making two-point mandolins at least since the 1920's. A couple of them probably before that.
# Posted on October 21st 2005 by jonmilton
Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
I have a 2 point mandolin.I had mine built a long time ago I wanted a new instrument and I liked the looks of the one Jethro Burns played
The luthier,Frank Gay, built it with hollow points.I think Gibsons have solid points and curls.Does this make a big difference?
Not that I have ever noticed.
I think a good "A" style with an oval sound hole would sound the same .
# Posted on October 21st 2005 by McMandolin
Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
When I was talking with Phil Crump about ordering from him, I chose his B-II two-point design just because I like the look of it. I did ask him if he felt that there were any sonic differences that come from the two-point design and he felt that if there were any, they were negligible.
In reading posts from luthiers on the Mandolin Cafe website, I've seen that some do a little different math with the relationships among the top and back plates and the sides, and the internal volume of the body, when they use two-point designs.
But overall, it seems to be a cosmetic variation.
There have been discussions on the Cafe about how/whether the scroll design of the F-style mandolins affects the sound. I think most of those more or less concluded that there are a lot of other factors that determine the sound to a much greater degree than the scroll, per se.
I don't like all of the 2-pts, I've seen, but I like mine, and I like the Weber Bighorn, Bill Bussman's Old Wave C# models, there are others, too. I'm looking into the cost of a Weber Bighorn octave mandolin...
Thanks,
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on October 21st 2005 by stv culchie
Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
Looking Cool.
# Posted on October 21st 2005 by Why Bother?
Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
My lovely two-pointer is a Suzuki, about 25 years old, bright red, made of solid spruce etc. It has an oval hole (to my mind better for Celtic than f-holes but that's debatable)
# Posted on October 22nd 2005 by RichardB
Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
It prevents ladies with over ample bosoms from picking at your instrument
# Posted on October 22nd 2005 by Red Robin
Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
I've played on 2-pointers, bowlbacks, A, and F-style instruments, but I don't think the 2-point design has any signifigant impact on the sound. As for F-styles, though, I say that the extra space in the bass horn and (usually) larger headstock produce a fuller sound, and I'm convinced that they're a tad louder and sound better.
I've gone around and around with friends on the merits of a having larger body and headstock (heh) and I'm convinced that size DOES matter. If you don't believe me, then just strum up a chord good and loud, and without letting up, use the other hand to tightly grab the stock at the top. Use as many fingers as you can fit on one side and your whole palm on the other. Now listen to how the chord cuts out. You kill the vibration. You can do the same thing with the soundboard, and no one ever says, gee, let's make the soundboard smaller. The strings are anchored at two points on the instrument - the headstock and the bridge. So far, I have gotten *one* instrument tech to agree with me on this point, and the man was a luthier as well, the others were not. Like a soundpost, they transmit the vibration to the geometry of the instrument and that's key to having good tone. I, too, think that an oval soundhole holds up better against louder instruments, but they're a little tougher to bring up in the mix without feedback, if you mic them internally. You could also just raise the bridge and use heavier strings to get a bit more volume.
If you're really chopping or picking hard to compete with louder instruments, it's a *little bit* easier to keep a wedge-shaped headstock in tune. Off topic, but try Seagull 12-string guitars, and then any other model with a long rectangular stock for contrast. It's more dramatic wth that length of a neck and that many strings, but the effect is similar.
Personally, I would think twice about paying that kind of money for an Aria of all makes, and one that I couldn't play first. Would you pay the same for an Epiphone of that year? I think you're you're paying for the shape. I'd be more concerned with the wood and quality of construction than the design. I'll take a solid wood instrument with a carved top/back and tight grain over laminate anything any day.
It does look cool, though..
# Posted on October 23rd 2005 by gravelwalks
Re: What impact does a two-point design have on a mandolin?
Two points don't add much to the sound, but they sure do add ALOT to the look, AND questions !
Here is one big mandolin with two points,
http://www.chinatogalway.com/Toys%20Shanghai%20Bouzouki.htm
I also had a lovely Lyon and Healy two point that was stunning !!!
KS
# Posted on October 24th 2005 by KS