Is there a good link online or here in this site having to do with how to take care of onesself when hiring out to do festivals, Highland Games, etc.? How does your fee differ from, say, a wedding or party? Do you usually get a percentage of the gate, or do you charge a flat fee? Do you always have someone from your group at the gate to watch what really comes in? When are you willing to perform gratis, and how do you handle people who are clueless about what a performer requires pay-wise to make the performance worth her/his time?
1) Join a union - apart from which, you will be able to network and ask gigging musicians about such matters.
2) Make sure you get it in writing what you are expected to do, where, for how long, for how much, and when (and how) you will be paid.
3) Ensure you also write down what you specifically will not do.
4) If the organisers haven't got a clue, by all means advise them, but firstly, tell them what you are expected to do and what you will not do.
With anything like festivals and games, there will be a lot of hanging about and things running late, so make sure finishing times are specified, not just how long the spots will be. (This applies to weddings as well)
Personally, we will only perform gratis if we want to do it, we think there will be further work out of it and we think no-one is pulling a fast one.
We all have to start somewhere but be prepared for all eventualities, be one step ahead and be careful.
I wonder if anyone has a standard blank contract they could share? Ie, to see what sort of things people discuss / agree. I'd think it's just as important for the promoter, to know what you will / won't do as it is for you the musician.
I agree a lot about the "playing free" bit - I'm always amazed that people will try this on when they wouldn't dream of asking any other professional for their time free of charge.
Unless my band is just starting or the festival is a benefit for a good cause and NOBODY is making money, then we don't play for free. If you play for free, then that's what your band is worth.
Bands that ask a lot of money get a lot of respect, no matter how great they are. Don't flinch when you give your price, and don't explain it at all. Decide as a band what your time is worth, then add 50%. I wouldn't even try to "handle" people who are clueless about how much musicians are worth. Quote a price and be firm. They'll get the idea.
Flat fee or gate %? I've only played for a flat fee, it's easier for both sides to figure out, and it lets your band know up front whether the gig will be worth it. I've seen enough festival "dis" organizers to know that they'll never really have a good handle on the gate count, and I wouldn't trust 'em anyway.
In my experience, it's also really useful to have a tech sheet. Specify with a diagram the layout of the band, and the sound needs for each band member. Do you need DIs? Direct boxes? What kind of microphones? Do you need a boom stand? Do you need chairs? Water at the side of the stage?
Get really detailed, and always include a clause in the contract that says if any of the terms are not fulfilled it's breach of contract, they are liable to pay you no matter what, etc...
Lots of festivals are run by well meaning people who have no clue how to handle musicians, from the pay to the tech. To pull those gigs off well you have to be flexible, prepared, have a good sense of humour, and have the right kind of contract so you don't get shafted.
MU rates are by the half hour with a minumum - work like that.
Find out the location and use some sort of route-finder to work out distance, travel costs and travelling time - add that on top.
Make sure it is specified when, how and by who you will be paid.
Specify chairs without arms. Bring some lighting just in case.
Anything discussed - put it in writing, making it clear you are not booked until they confirm acceptance.
Make it clear they can only cancel in writing and how much will be charged depending on how near the date is.
The better your contract, the better chance at small claims court.
Playing for festivals; fees, requirements
Playing for festivals; fees, requirements
Is there a good link online or here in this site having to do with how to take care of onesself when hiring out to do festivals, Highland Games, etc.? How does your fee differ from, say, a wedding or party? Do you usually get a percentage of the gate, or do you charge a flat fee? Do you always have someone from your group at the gate to watch what really comes in? When are you willing to perform gratis, and how do you handle people who are clueless about what a performer requires pay-wise to make the performance worth her/his time?
# Posted on October 18th 2005 by thier1754
Re: Playing for festivals; fees, requirements
Sounds like you need a good Agent Peggy, or perhaps you should contact these folks:
http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/html/index.php
But seriously, check out this discussion:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/4073/comments#comment83411
& this one:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/4073/comments#comment83080
They might help you?
But, at the end of the day, it's different strokes, for different folks - isn't it?
# Posted on October 18th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Playing for festivals; fees, requirements
Sorry, I meant this one:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/354/comments#comment4874
# Posted on October 18th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Playing for festivals; fees, requirements
I still have this funny notion that you ask for a fee which reflects your ability and practise a lot more when it is knocked back
# Posted on October 18th 2005 by mcknowall
Re: Playing for festivals; fees, requirements
1) Join a union - apart from which, you will be able to network and ask gigging musicians about such matters.
2) Make sure you get it in writing what you are expected to do, where, for how long, for how much, and when (and how) you will be paid.
3) Ensure you also write down what you specifically will not do.
4) If the organisers haven't got a clue, by all means advise them, but firstly, tell them what you are expected to do and what you will not do.
With anything like festivals and games, there will be a lot of hanging about and things running late, so make sure finishing times are specified, not just how long the spots will be. (This applies to weddings as well)
Personally, we will only perform gratis if we want to do it, we think there will be further work out of it and we think no-one is pulling a fast one.
We all have to start somewhere but be prepared for all eventualities, be one step ahead and be careful.
# Posted on October 18th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: Playing for festivals; fees, requirements
I wonder if anyone has a standard blank contract they could share? Ie, to see what sort of things people discuss / agree. I'd think it's just as important for the promoter, to know what you will / won't do as it is for you the musician.
I agree a lot about the "playing free" bit - I'm always amazed that people will try this on when they wouldn't dream of asking any other professional for their time free of charge.
# Posted on October 18th 2005 by Mark Harmer
Re: Playing for festivals; fees, requirements
Unless my band is just starting or the festival is a benefit for a good cause and NOBODY is making money, then we don't play for free. If you play for free, then that's what your band is worth.
Bands that ask a lot of money get a lot of respect, no matter how great they are. Don't flinch when you give your price, and don't explain it at all. Decide as a band what your time is worth, then add 50%. I wouldn't even try to "handle" people who are clueless about how much musicians are worth. Quote a price and be firm. They'll get the idea.
Flat fee or gate %? I've only played for a flat fee, it's easier for both sides to figure out, and it lets your band know up front whether the gig will be worth it. I've seen enough festival "dis" organizers to know that they'll never really have a good handle on the gate count, and I wouldn't trust 'em anyway.
In my experience, it's also really useful to have a tech sheet. Specify with a diagram the layout of the band, and the sound needs for each band member. Do you need DIs? Direct boxes? What kind of microphones? Do you need a boom stand? Do you need chairs? Water at the side of the stage?
Get really detailed, and always include a clause in the contract that says if any of the terms are not fulfilled it's breach of contract, they are liable to pay you no matter what, etc...
Lots of festivals are run by well meaning people who have no clue how to handle musicians, from the pay to the tech. To pull those gigs off well you have to be flexible, prepared, have a good sense of humour, and have the right kind of contract so you don't get shafted.
Just my thoughts
-Kevin
# Posted on October 18th 2005 by dirtyheel
Re: Playing for festivals; fees, requirements
MU rates are by the half hour with a minumum - work like that.
Find out the location and use some sort of route-finder to work out distance, travel costs and travelling time - add that on top.
Make sure it is specified when, how and by who you will be paid.
Specify chairs without arms. Bring some lighting just in case.
Anything discussed - put it in writing, making it clear you are not booked until they confirm acceptance.
Make it clear they can only cancel in writing and how much will be charged depending on how near the date is.
The better your contract, the better chance at small claims court.
# Posted on October 19th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: Playing for festivals; fees, requirements
Thanks so much, everybody! I wasn't able to post for a couple of days for some reason, so this is a late thank you.
# Posted on October 20th 2005 by thier1754