I have a friend who heard Irish music for the first time at a recent concert, and he decided he would like to learn how to play. I've agreed to teach him what I know. Problem is, I play harp and his instrument is cello. For my part, I've only heard Irish cellists but once, and don't really know much about how to integrate that instrument into the tradition. If anyone has any suggestions or tips, they'd be greatly appreciated.
Best,
L.
Look up Abby Newton. She plays quite a bit of Celtic cello and has written books for it. My son has studied with her the past two summers, and she's wonderful. Her recordings are equally well done.
I don't know about in ITM circles but the Cello has been used more & more in recent years with Scottish music & there are more & more folks, especially Fiddle players like Alistair Fraser & Pete Clark, to mention two, who have recorded recently with Cello.
Fact is, the Cello's involvement with Fiddle music goes way, way back so this is not something new, it is just coming back into vogue, if you like, & not before time too, in my book.
In the late 70's I remember a bloke bringing his Cello along regularly to Bells sessions & it sounded absolutely brilliant.
I actually have a videa with Alistair Fraser playing with a Cello player & it is just a magic combination.
So I'd recommend you get a listen to these recordings, in the absense of Irish recordings, they might just help to point you in a useful direction.
Come to think of it, I know of a guy here in NC who uses his cello primarily as a continuo instrument for old-time music. (But he can do ITM too) He plays mostly pizzicato chording techniques. It's very percussive, fairly unique, and sounds fantastic. All in a smaller package than a double bass that can be heard more easily.
The cool thing about a cello is that it can be used for both.
SOmething else, while on this topic - the Baltimore COnsort (Chris Norman's group) uses viols for early Scottish music, but it sounds fairly close to Irish contemporary stuff in many ways.
We have a cellist at our sessions, and he plays the bass part. Brahms thought that the cello was the closest instrument to the human voice in its expressive qualities.
Check out a CD titled Fire & Grace, by Alasdair Fraser and Natalie Haas. (OK, he's Scottish, but let's not split hairs, eh?) She mostly plays backing stuff. Sounds good (OK, really good) to me.
She'd certainly be welcome at our session, any time.
"Okay he's Scottish, but let's not split hairs" ???!!!
I always find it amusing when discussions on this board take this particular turn. Somebody starts out asking a question about Irish music and the whole thing gets turned to Scots music (or some other tradition) because what they're asking isn't very relevant to Irish music. Yes, I accept that there is a relationship and an overlap in repertoires, etc. But from where I'm standing, they are not the same thing.
I've never been to a football game, so I couldn't possibly comment on Celtic cello playing.
The cello player who frequented "Sandy Bells" was Ron Shaw. He's still playing, and released a solo CD last year. He has also recorded with "Boys Of The Lough".
I can think of 3 cello players in traditional Irish music, who have recorded.
Catherine Lavelle, [ Lavalle ? ] who played with "De Danann" for a spell. She has I think 2 solo CDs out now, but from what I've heard, they're a bit "New-Ageish", and focus more on her singing, than cello-playing.
Neil Martin from Belfast played it with "Cran", on their 1st CD, but I think used it more on songs rather than tunes.
"La Lugh" had a cello player, but I can't remember her name off-hand. She also appeared on a CD recorded in Ennis by a group called "The Bowhouse Quintet". I'd say that's the best example of the cello in ITM I've come across.
I'll second the Fire and Grace tip. Natalie Haas's playing is fantastic - a little to a lot like Edgar Meyer's double bass playing style on that album he did with Bela Fleck.
The idea of a Generation whistle, to get a feel for the melody, is not a bad idea. But there is nothing wrong with bringing the "big strings" to this type of music.
I just saw Natalie Hass with Alisdair Fraser in concert last weekend--pure magic.
Also, check out the playing of your Rashaad Eggleston, who plays on the albums released by young fiddler Hannakah Cassell (a Scot-style fiddler from Boston--I am not quite sure of the exact spelling of her name), and others as well--that kid really does some awesome stuff.
And for an American approach, the trio Mark O'Connor, Yo Yo Ma and Edgar Meyers did a couple of albums with the word "Appalachia" in the title.
I think the low strings sound GREAT with this type of music, and look forward to hearing more of them in the future. At least in Scottish music, they are a lot more "traditional" than bouzoukis and some of the other "newly traditional instruments."
A couple of albums with cello:
Arcady, "Many Happy Returns." I think the cello player's name is Neil Martin (?). Whoever he is, he plays on a few tracks and plays well.
Boys of the Lough, "The West of Ireland." I think the cello player is Ron Shaw, whom Kenny mentioned. I particularly like the cello on the set of reels near the end of that album.
The Chieftains, "Boil the Breakfast." There's some very subtle, and very pretty, cello accompaniment to Matt Molloy's slow, moody version of the Home Ruler.
I've noticed that on these records the cello is used mostly for slower, darker-sounding tunes. I wonder if the cello could actually be used to brighten the sound. Just a thought.
Eire - Wow! - that is the strangest thing! You won't believe this but I have a CD in my computer & between me & the PC screen is a CD cover. It says 'Kirkmount' Queue X FiLeS mUsIc! Creeeeepy!
There are several excellent cellists who play Celtic music: Barry Phillips of the Coulter/Phillips/Grojean Ensemble from Santa Cruz CA is awesome. Also, Childsplay out of the Boston area has a strong cello component.
We even have a cellist in our band, which plays Celtic and American old timey music. It really adds a lot to the sound.
Mickray - I may have good news for you. Natalie Hass might not show up at your session but she certainly is not above sharing the occaisional tune, I've had the occaisional honor.
There was a Joe and Antonette McKenna album, ( yeh, 33 1/3 vinyl) that had some cello on it. I think it was Ms Ivers playing. Maybe not. I don't remember the name of the record either.
She always appears to be enjoying it. Lovely little smile, or a big smile. None of this closing yr eyes and drooling on the fingerboard, or "I'm so into it, watch me concentrate" look. She is completely aware of everything and still plays like like, like....well I don't have to tell you...you have the CD.
I don't play like that, maybe there IS something to be said for lessons.
Wow...thanks everyone! This is really, really helpful...Any advice on backing with the instrument, as some of you have been smarter than me to mention, would be equally appreciated. Thanks again so much.
Natalie plays alot of chords along with Alister, what would a cellist play in an Irish session. I'd love to give it a try, I'm good with chords, but not fast enought to play a reel or jig (unless it's in open C which won't happen)?
I think you can add cello without taking anything away from a true Irish sound. I really enjoy playing both melody or accompaniment on cello for Irish or Scottish tunes - fast or slow. However, the first post is talking about playing with harp - and I think there are some tunes where cello and harp work together and other tunes that don't.
I think as long as you both don't just play the melody the ENTIRE time, and experiment with different octave ranges, take turns harmonizing here and there, there is tremendous potential. Both instruments have tremendous range and timbre capabilites.
Also, on cello or harp, if you really try to make your accompaniment sound recognizably like the song itself, but without necessarily using the melody itself, I think you are on the right track. Try making your accompaniment uniquely suited to the song in a way that you would recognize the song even if you subtracted the original melody. I think this is a unique challenge to both harp and cello.
Just some thoughts from a cellist... I am curious what the world at large has to say about cello in Irish music. The session I have been attending in Duvall Washington has been very supportive of integrating cello - one night we even had 2 cellists - I know - go figure!
Irish cello
Irish cello
I have a friend who heard Irish music for the first time at a recent concert, and he decided he would like to learn how to play. I've agreed to teach him what I know. Problem is, I play harp and his instrument is cello. For my part, I've only heard Irish cellists but once, and don't really know much about how to integrate that instrument into the tradition. If anyone has any suggestions or tips, they'd be greatly appreciated.
Best,
L.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Tipperaryharper
Re: Irish cello
Look up Abby Newton. She plays quite a bit of Celtic cello and has written books for it. My son has studied with her the past two summers, and she's wonderful. Her recordings are equally well done.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Mark Stone
Re: Irish cello
I don't know about in ITM circles but the Cello has been used more & more in recent years with Scottish music & there are more & more folks, especially Fiddle players like Alistair Fraser & Pete Clark, to mention two, who have recorded recently with Cello.
Fact is, the Cello's involvement with Fiddle music goes way, way back so this is not something new, it is just coming back into vogue, if you like, & not before time too, in my book.
In the late 70's I remember a bloke bringing his Cello along regularly to Bells sessions & it sounded absolutely brilliant.
I actually have a videa with Alistair Fraser playing with a Cello player & it is just a magic combination.
So I'd recommend you get a listen to these recordings, in the absense of Irish recordings, they might just help to point you in a useful direction.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Irish cello
Ditto.
I believe Abby specializes more in Scottish music, but that doesn;t mean it's not possible to play Irish.
I'd start of with the more familiar O'Carolan tunes, because they are basically baroque/classical, stylistically.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: Irish cello
Back up or Tunes? I am just curious as I tried Fiddle but never got into it Flute is where it is at so this is not my expertise.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Unseen122
Re: Irish cello
Come to think of it, I know of a guy here in NC who uses his cello primarily as a continuo instrument for old-time music. (But he can do ITM too) He plays mostly pizzicato chording techniques. It's very percussive, fairly unique, and sounds fantastic. All in a smaller package than a double bass that can be heard more easily.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: Irish cello
The cool thing about a cello is that it can be used for both.
SOmething else, while on this topic - the Baltimore COnsort (Chris Norman's group) uses viols for early Scottish music, but it sounds fairly close to Irish contemporary stuff in many ways.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: Irish cello
Yip, played pizzicato it can fairly rattle out faster tunes, & when bowed, of course, it has a wonderful quality for slow tunes.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Irish cello
We have a cellist at our sessions, and he plays the bass part. Brahms thought that the cello was the closest instrument to the human voice in its expressive qualities.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Irish cello
"He plays the bass part."
If a TradCop hears you say that, you might be issued a citation. You've been warned .
;P
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by wormdiet
Re: Irish cello
Check out a CD titled Fire & Grace, by Alasdair Fraser and Natalie Haas. (OK, he's Scottish, but let's not split hairs, eh?) She mostly plays backing stuff. Sounds good (OK, really good) to me.
She'd certainly be welcome at our session, any time.
If she felt like slumming, anyway.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by mickray
Re: Irish cello
'Tipperaryharper', you might find this interesting:
http://www.standingstones.com/tradcllo.html
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Irish cello
"Okay he's Scottish, but let's not split hairs" ???!!!
I always find it amusing when discussions on this board take this particular turn. Somebody starts out asking a question about Irish music and the whole thing gets turned to Scots music (or some other tradition) because what they're asking isn't very relevant to Irish music. Yes, I accept that there is a relationship and an overlap in repertoires, etc. But from where I'm standing, they are not the same thing.
I've never been to a football game, so I couldn't possibly comment on Celtic cello playing.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by kris
Re: Irish cello
The cello player who frequented "Sandy Bells" was Ron Shaw. He's still playing, and released a solo CD last year. He has also recorded with "Boys Of The Lough".
I can think of 3 cello players in traditional Irish music, who have recorded.
Catherine Lavelle, [ Lavalle ? ] who played with "De Danann" for a spell. She has I think 2 solo CDs out now, but from what I've heard, they're a bit "New-Ageish", and focus more on her singing, than cello-playing.
Neil Martin from Belfast played it with "Cran", on their 1st CD, but I think used it more on songs rather than tunes.
"La Lugh" had a cello player, but I can't remember her name off-hand. She also appeared on a CD recorded in Ennis by a group called "The Bowhouse Quintet". I'd say that's the best example of the cello in ITM I've come across.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Kenny
Re: Irish cello
Is it time for the joke about the spike sticking in yer shoulder? Or has it been done?
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Irish cello
Clare O'Donaghue, was her name.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Kenny
Re: Irish cello
I'll second the Fire and Grace tip. Natalie Haas's playing is fantastic - a little to a lot like Edgar Meyer's double bass playing style on that album he did with Bela Fleck.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Q
Re: Irish cello
I would suggest to him that he buys a Generation D whistle and starts where most people start when learning to play Irish Traditional Music
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by cluaintarbh
Re: Irish cello
The idea of a Generation whistle, to get a feel for the melody, is not a bad idea. But there is nothing wrong with bringing the "big strings" to this type of music.
I just saw Natalie Hass with Alisdair Fraser in concert last weekend--pure magic.
Also, check out the playing of your Rashaad Eggleston, who plays on the albums released by young fiddler Hannakah Cassell (a Scot-style fiddler from Boston--I am not quite sure of the exact spelling of her name), and others as well--that kid really does some awesome stuff.
And for an American approach, the trio Mark O'Connor, Yo Yo Ma and Edgar Meyers did a couple of albums with the word "Appalachia" in the title.
I think the low strings sound GREAT with this type of music, and look forward to hearing more of them in the future. At least in Scottish music, they are a lot more "traditional" than bouzoukis and some of the other "newly traditional instruments."
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Irish cello
That should be "young" Rashaad Eggleston, not "your."
Oops,
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Irish cello
A couple of albums with cello:
Arcady, "Many Happy Returns." I think the cello player's name is Neil Martin (?). Whoever he is, he plays on a few tracks and plays well.
Boys of the Lough, "The West of Ireland." I think the cello player is Ron Shaw, whom Kenny mentioned. I particularly like the cello on the set of reels near the end of that album.
The Chieftains, "Boil the Breakfast." There's some very subtle, and very pretty, cello accompaniment to Matt Molloy's slow, moody version of the Home Ruler.
I've noticed that on these records the cello is used mostly for slower, darker-sounding tunes. I wonder if the cello could actually be used to brighten the sound. Just a thought.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by smw
Re: Irish cello
"The Traditional Cello Page" offers some interesting reading:
http://www.standingstones.com/cellopg.html
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Tintin
Re: Irish cello
Check out the band Kirkmount... there's some samples on their site... www.kirkmount.us the cellist, Simeon Bigney, is awesome!
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by EireLibra
Re: Irish cello
Tintin, I wonder, is it any where near this site? See above!
Re: Irish cello
'Tipperaryharper', you might find this interesting:
http://www.standingstones.com/tradcllo.html
# Posted on Friday, October 7th 2005 by Ptarmigan
No doubt you spotted it on one of your 'adventures'?
Please tell Herges, I was asking for him.
Check out tintin's true identity on his bio site:
http://tintin.biography.ms/
You have to laugh, don't you?
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Irish cello
Eire - Wow! - that is the strangest thing! You won't believe this but I have a CD in my computer & between me & the PC screen is a CD cover. It says 'Kirkmount' Queue X FiLeS mUsIc! Creeeeepy!
I notice Simon also plays Bodhran................
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Irish cello
"Tintin, I wonder, is it any where near this site? See above!
"
Ptarmigan, oops...missed your original link the first time through. Well, we're thorough, and my link at least isn't quite identical to yours.
(And your Herge link is quite informative...I've been a long-time fan of the series, but I haven't done much research outside of reading the books.)
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Tintin
Re: Irish cello
Hey, no probs Tin'Man'.
Sure is better bein' safe than sorry.
Yeah, our son enjoyed those Tintin books, but actually preferred Asterix & Obelix.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Irish cello
There are several excellent cellists who play Celtic music: Barry Phillips of the Coulter/Phillips/Grojean Ensemble from Santa Cruz CA is awesome. Also, Childsplay out of the Boston area has a strong cello component.
We even have a cellist in our band, which plays Celtic and American old timey music. It really adds a lot to the sound.
# Posted on October 7th 2005 by jmcdaniel
Re: Irish cello
Mickray - I may have good news for you. Natalie Hass might not show up at your session but she certainly is not above sharing the occaisional tune, I've had the occaisional honor.
There was a Joe and Antonette McKenna album, ( yeh, 33 1/3 vinyl) that had some cello on it. I think it was Ms Ivers playing. Maybe not. I don't remember the name of the record either.
# Posted on October 8th 2005 by Owell Mabee
Re: Irish cello
Owell--you lucky dog!
I just listened to that CD again, and was entranced--again. It must be nice, to be able to play like that. Especially on such an oversized fiddle.
# Posted on October 8th 2005 by mickray
Re: Irish cello
"It must be nice to be able to play like that"
She always appears to be enjoying it. Lovely little smile, or a big smile. None of this closing yr eyes and drooling on the fingerboard, or "I'm so into it, watch me concentrate" look. She is completely aware of everything and still plays like like, like....well I don't have to tell you...you have the CD.
I don't play like that, maybe there IS something to be said for lessons.
# Posted on October 8th 2005 by Owell Mabee
Re: Irish cello
I agree, check out Abby Newton and Natalie Hass, both are great.
# Posted on October 9th 2005 by clawhammerbanjo
Re: Irish cello
Check out Cruinn, they have an amazing cello player Alexa Ramirez on their album. Freakon creepy/excellent.
# Posted on October 14th 2005 by picking up that fiddle
Re: Irish cello
Wow...thanks everyone! This is really, really helpful...Any advice on backing with the instrument, as some of you have been smarter than me to mention, would be equally appreciated. Thanks again so much.
# Posted on October 18th 2005 by Tipperaryharper
Re: Irish cello
Natalie plays alot of chords along with Alister, what would a cellist play in an Irish session. I'd love to give it a try, I'm good with chords, but not fast enought to play a reel or jig (unless it's in open C which won't happen)?
# Posted on October 27th 2005 by pick&bow
Re: Irish cello
I think you can add cello without taking anything away from a true Irish sound. I really enjoy playing both melody or accompaniment on cello for Irish or Scottish tunes - fast or slow. However, the first post is talking about playing with harp - and I think there are some tunes where cello and harp work together and other tunes that don't.
I think as long as you both don't just play the melody the ENTIRE time, and experiment with different octave ranges, take turns harmonizing here and there, there is tremendous potential. Both instruments have tremendous range and timbre capabilites.
Also, on cello or harp, if you really try to make your accompaniment sound recognizably like the song itself, but without necessarily using the melody itself, I think you are on the right track. Try making your accompaniment uniquely suited to the song in a way that you would recognize the song even if you subtracted the original melody. I think this is a unique challenge to both harp and cello.
Just some thoughts from a cellist... I am curious what the world at large has to say about cello in Irish music. The session I have been attending in Duvall Washington has been very supportive of integrating cello - one night we even had 2 cellists - I know - go figure!
: )
# Posted on September 20th 2006 by Matt_Haverly