In the 30's, 40's and 50's ITM was at it's lowest ebb, probably due to the popular dance era. I knew several musicians who took up completely different instruments to accommodate this new type of dancing. Accordeon players switching to Saxophone for example.
With the popularity of ITM all over the world today, what would you do if people became absolutely fed up to the teeth with it?
I could care less what anyone else thinks of it -- I love it -- that's why I play it. I didn't get into it because I thought it was popular. As a matter of fact, when I first heard of it in the town I grew up in -- I was the only one that even knew about it. There might have been other people who I didn't know in town who were aware of it -- but in my circle of friends -- I was the only one. For a long time I was the person that introduced other people to it. So it's popularity wasn't at all a factor in my getting involved. I will keep playing it as long as I love the music... probably as long as I live regardless of how popular it is.
Anyway you're lying. If everyone got fed up with tunes, you wouldn't know what to do with yourself cuz you wouldn't have an audience to perform in front of anymore. Not worth doing if you've not got adoring punters lapping it up...
But seriously Ian, all those musicians who kept ITM going during those lean years, did so obviously when it wasn't regarded as a cool & trendy thing to be seen to be doing.
So if they could keep going, I'm sure a lot of the 'fanatics' here, especially those of us who have been playing ITM for more than 30 years now, would quite happily just trundle on playing it.
For us, I look upon it as an incurable disease.
We have no choice.
In fact, I think many of us will die with our instruments in our hands!
I was really wondering what would happen if, for example, pub owners that allowed sessions, decided over a period of time that ITM wasn't economically viable. I know most players would find alternative places to play but gigs would become rare. Another scenario could be envisaged, if money disappears and only credit card machines are used, how will busking fare? Can you imagine an itinerant muscian with one of these contraptions?.............
I'm not sure that it is "popular" in the popular sense of the word. Ooooh, I can't believe I just said that.
Fortunately, I think it has a good stronghold where it matters. Sometimes, it will become more or less fashionable because of phenomena such as River Dance, Titanic etc but, these days, there is good core of people playing this music because they love it. They're not all Irish or "brought up in the tradition" (Let's not start all this again) but they will also pass the music on to others wherever they may be in the world.
So, the fact that it is not really that popular is why it will survive. It's true that the public, media, and entertainment industry is very fickle and they will get fed up of the more commercial Irish music ventures but that's not really what the music is about and it doesn't need all that to survive.
Over on another site and elsewhere, many people bemoan the fact that Scottish music hasn't achieved the same popularity and high profile as Irish music. It *is* actually on "the up and up" but, even if it never reaches the same heights, it doesn't matter too much in my opinion. As long as there's a good, solid core of people playing the (Scottish) music at grassroots level just for the love of it, that's all that really matters. It might be disappointing for some would be "career musicians" who might have to consider getting a different day job but the main thing is that the music (Irish, Scottish and whatever) survives. Not that it has a God given right to, of course, but "popularity" isn't necessarily the important factor in this.
"I was really wondering what would happen if, for example, pub owners that allowed sessions, decided over a period of time that ITM wasn't economically viable."
Is it financially viable.? Ha Ha...
Yesterday evening, six of us were playing in a pub in Oxford. Whilst we played, we drank our free pint of beer and were listened to by my neighbour Paul (Rent-a-Punter) and a young couple. Half way through a set, quite early in the evening, the young couple picked up their drinks and retired to the other bar.
An hour later a girl came in, glanced at us, went into the ladies and did her business, came out and left.
At half an hour to closing time four people came in, and sat at the bar and listened while drinking a couple of pints.
As we packed up, Alison the Landlady appeared and apologised for the fact it had been such a quiet night. We speculated about whether the previous day's partial lunar eclipse might have had something to do with it. I made an appalling joke about how peoples cycles might have been disrupted by said event (Oxford being the city of bicycles).
Then we all went home.
Paul reckoned it had actually been a very good session, with lots of tunes he'd not heard before, and some lively sets.
I was inclined to agree, especially as we had the luxury of being able to hear ourselves.
Im reading a publication thats going around Dublin at the moment, theres a review of a bar;
"....If you like trad music, and don't feel ashamed to admit it.... "
This is an attitude I come across a good bit, so I'm wondering where "cool and trendy" comes into it?
Cool and trendy? I don't know. Respectde? Yes. Let's face it, you don't play trad to get laid. As long as they're music (not to be confused with image) worshippers out there, the music will never die.
But, if it did die (hypothetical), id hold onto my banjo and, in about 10 years, quietly reintroduce it back onto the scene and be hailed as the godfather of diddly, with future generations holding my name in the highest of respect.
Aye Ian, were pubs to stop the payed gigs that would be a bummer for anyone else, like myself, who plays music for a living & isn't good enough, or young enough, to join one of the trendy young "Boy Bands" of ITM!
I'm confident two of the pubs I play in each week would keep the session going if they could, mainly because the owners are into the music & I reckon free beer would be on the cards & I would still get my free cups of tea & glasses of Red Diesel.
What - get a day job Aaarrrrggggg!
No, Nae, Never! I'll remain a Wild Rover, one way or another.
Probably just have to do more teaching!
I certainly don't have the figure for Q's Salsa class! You don't accept Fat Bas*ards, do you?
Yes, Ottery, those quet sessions are wonderful, but they don't pay the bills!
stefanpaz -Re: the cool & trendy. Years ago kids, especially boys, wouldn't have been seen dead, carrying an instrument case to school for fear of being ribbed for ever more for being 'cissies'. Nowadays, it is very refreshing to see all sorts of instruments being carried by school kids who seem to feel cool about the music now.
"hailed as the godfather of diddly" - sorry copo24, just had this image of Brando - with a Banjo on his knee!
I, for one, can speak to almost the precise point the OP is trying to make: What would you do if what you played was "out of vouge?"
The band I play with plays "US old-timey" music, much as was heard around 150 years ago or so. We love it, but there is not much appreciation for it. We didn't care, and kept playing. Now that it's becoming popular again, it's a nice ego boost.
But, do we really play just for the ego boost we get from punters? I for one could give a flying squirrel if ANYBODY other than the other musicians heard what was going on. Call me a snob, I guess, but I find that the finest appreciation for this or any music comes from those that play it themselves. They can marvel at a well turned cran; they can laugh along with you when the rythm beast gets away from you; they can hoist a glass with you to a ripping good tune. Punters, God love 'em, enjoy it tremendously, but rarely can appreciate that you played a roll rather than a bowed triplet.
Don't get me wrong: I'd be VERY saddened if the punters were not about. But I'd still play. I'd be very saddened if we were no longer welcome at the pubs. But I'd still play. I'd be heartbroken if I could not find others to play this music with.
In many places around the world, this music is only popular or even tolerated for a week in mid March. But some of us love the music, and so we go on playing it the other 51 weeks. Myself, I have a decent day job. If I had no choice but to play music for a living, I'd no doubt be thrashing a Les Paul down at the local meat market bar three nights a week. And still playing jigs and reels as much as I do now.
As long as there are a few people who still play, there will always be ITM. I think everyone is forgetting all the "underground" groups and genres there are. I'm pretty sure there will always be a market for whatever music you want to play and perform, the only role popularity plays is on how well you get paid.
"In fact, I think many of us will die with instruments in our hands!"
That could be difficult for a person who plays piano like myself.
I think most of the traditional session music in the state of RI is pretty independent of trends or fads. Paying gig opportunities may ebb and flow, but us that play for drinks or for fun, we just keep on playing....and even in the worst of times, all of us get a few gigs in March!
Not to name drop, but I had the pleasure of talking to Joe Derrane from up Boston way at a festival once--he gave up the button box for playing piano accordion and keyboards, any type of music he could get gigs for, and then finally gave it up completely for years. But then, thank the Lord, in his retirement years, he came out of his musical retirement.
Is There Life Without ITM?
Is There Life Without ITM?
In the 30's, 40's and 50's ITM was at it's lowest ebb, probably due to the popular dance era. I knew several musicians who took up completely different instruments to accommodate this new type of dancing. Accordeon players switching to Saxophone for example.
With the popularity of ITM all over the world today, what would you do if people became absolutely fed up to the teeth with it?
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Ian Stevenson
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
I could care less what anyone else thinks of it -- I love it -- that's why I play it. I didn't get into it because I thought it was popular. As a matter of fact, when I first heard of it in the town I grew up in -- I was the only one that even knew about it. There might have been other people who I didn't know in town who were aware of it -- but in my circle of friends -- I was the only one. For a long time I was the person that introduced other people to it. So it's popularity wasn't at all a factor in my getting involved. I will keep playing it as long as I love the music... probably as long as I live regardless of how popular it is.
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
You *could* or you *couldn't* care less? I'm trying to quantify your level of caring here, Jack, but you're not making much sense.
As usual.
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Dow
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
Anyway you're lying. If everyone got fed up with tunes, you wouldn't know what to do with yourself cuz you wouldn't have an audience to perform in front of anymore. Not worth doing if you've not got adoring punters lapping it up...
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Dow
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
What do you mean - 'became'?
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
That could be a Freudian slip, it should have read 'become'.
I shouldn't tempt providence.........
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Ian Stevenson
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
But seriously Ian, all those musicians who kept ITM going during those lean years, did so obviously when it wasn't regarded as a cool & trendy thing to be seen to be doing.
So if they could keep going, I'm sure a lot of the 'fanatics' here, especially those of us who have been playing ITM for more than 30 years now, would quite happily just trundle on playing it.
For us, I look upon it as an incurable disease.
We have no choice.
In fact, I think many of us will die with our instruments in our hands!
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
I was really wondering what would happen if, for example, pub owners that allowed sessions, decided over a period of time that ITM wasn't economically viable. I know most players would find alternative places to play but gigs would become rare. Another scenario could be envisaged, if money disappears and only credit card machines are used, how will busking fare? Can you imagine an itinerant muscian with one of these contraptions?.............
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Ian Stevenson
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
"In fact, I think many of us will die with our instruments in our hands!"
Oh, if only . . .
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
I'm not sure that it is "popular" in the popular sense of the word. Ooooh, I can't believe I just said that.
Fortunately, I think it has a good stronghold where it matters. Sometimes, it will become more or less fashionable because of phenomena such as River Dance, Titanic etc but, these days, there is good core of people playing this music because they love it. They're not all Irish or "brought up in the tradition" (Let's not start all this again) but they will also pass the music on to others wherever they may be in the world.
So, the fact that it is not really that popular is why it will survive. It's true that the public, media, and entertainment industry is very fickle and they will get fed up of the more commercial Irish music ventures but that's not really what the music is about and it doesn't need all that to survive.
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Johannes J
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
Over on another site and elsewhere, many people bemoan the fact that Scottish music hasn't achieved the same popularity and high profile as Irish music. It *is* actually on "the up and up" but, even if it never reaches the same heights, it doesn't matter too much in my opinion. As long as there's a good, solid core of people playing the (Scottish) music at grassroots level just for the love of it, that's all that really matters. It might be disappointing for some would be "career musicians" who might have to consider getting a different day job but the main thing is that the music (Irish, Scottish and whatever) survives. Not that it has a God given right to, of course, but "popularity" isn't necessarily the important factor in this.
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Johannes J
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
Dow, jealousy doesn't become you.
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
I would take up SALSA dancing. da da da dum tah! Cos I can already tango, y'see.
Okay girls, form an orderly queue
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Q
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
"I was really wondering what would happen if, for example, pub owners that allowed sessions, decided over a period of time that ITM wasn't economically viable."
Is it financially viable.? Ha Ha...
Yesterday evening, six of us were playing in a pub in Oxford. Whilst we played, we drank our free pint of beer and were listened to by my neighbour Paul (Rent-a-Punter) and a young couple. Half way through a set, quite early in the evening, the young couple picked up their drinks and retired to the other bar.
An hour later a girl came in, glanced at us, went into the ladies and did her business, came out and left.
At half an hour to closing time four people came in, and sat at the bar and listened while drinking a couple of pints.
As we packed up, Alison the Landlady appeared and apologised for the fact it had been such a quiet night. We speculated about whether the previous day's partial lunar eclipse might have had something to do with it. I made an appalling joke about how peoples cycles might have been disrupted by said event (Oxford being the city of bicycles).
Then we all went home.
Paul reckoned it had actually been a very good session, with lots of tunes he'd not heard before, and some lively sets.
I was inclined to agree, especially as we had the luxury of being able to hear ourselves.
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
Im reading a publication thats going around Dublin at the moment, theres a review of a bar;
"....If you like trad music, and don't feel ashamed to admit it.... "
This is an attitude I come across a good bit, so I'm wondering where "cool and trendy" comes into it?
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
Cool and trendy? I don't know. Respectde? Yes. Let's face it, you don't play trad to get laid. As long as they're music (not to be confused with image) worshippers out there, the music will never die.
But, if it did die (hypothetical), id hold onto my banjo and, in about 10 years, quietly reintroduce it back onto the scene and be hailed as the godfather of diddly, with future generations holding my name in the highest of respect.
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by copo24
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
"Let's face it, you don't play trad to get laid"
Dammit, so that's where I've been going wrong all these years !
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by murfbox
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
Aye Ian, were pubs to stop the payed gigs that would be a bummer for anyone else, like myself, who plays music for a living & isn't good enough, or young enough, to join one of the trendy young "Boy Bands" of ITM!
I'm confident two of the pubs I play in each week would keep the session going if they could, mainly because the owners are into the music & I reckon free beer would be on the cards & I would still get my free cups of tea & glasses of Red Diesel.
What - get a day job Aaarrrrggggg!
No, Nae, Never! I'll remain a Wild Rover, one way or another.
Probably just have to do more teaching!
I certainly don't have the figure for Q's Salsa class! You don't accept Fat Bas*ards, do you?
Yes, Ottery, those quet sessions are wonderful, but they don't pay the bills!
stefanpaz -Re: the cool & trendy. Years ago kids, especially boys, wouldn't have been seen dead, carrying an instrument case to school for fear of being ribbed for ever more for being 'cissies'. Nowadays, it is very refreshing to see all sorts of instruments being carried by school kids who seem to feel cool about the music now.
"hailed as the godfather of diddly" - sorry copo24, just had this image of Brando - with a Banjo on his knee!
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
I, for one, can speak to almost the precise point the OP is trying to make: What would you do if what you played was "out of vouge?"
The band I play with plays "US old-timey" music, much as was heard around 150 years ago or so. We love it, but there is not much appreciation for it. We didn't care, and kept playing. Now that it's becoming popular again, it's a nice ego boost.
But, do we really play just for the ego boost we get from punters? I for one could give a flying squirrel if ANYBODY other than the other musicians heard what was going on. Call me a snob, I guess, but I find that the finest appreciation for this or any music comes from those that play it themselves. They can marvel at a well turned cran; they can laugh along with you when the rythm beast gets away from you; they can hoist a glass with you to a ripping good tune. Punters, God love 'em, enjoy it tremendously, but rarely can appreciate that you played a roll rather than a bowed triplet.
Don't get me wrong: I'd be VERY saddened if the punters were not about. But I'd still play. I'd be very saddened if we were no longer welcome at the pubs. But I'd still play. I'd be heartbroken if I could not find others to play this music with.
But I'd still play.
-P
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Philem
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
no
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by S.McMullen
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
In many places around the world, this music is only popular or even tolerated for a week in mid March. But some of us love the music, and so we go on playing it the other 51 weeks. Myself, I have a decent day job. If I had no choice but to play music for a living, I'd no doubt be thrashing a Les Paul down at the local meat market bar three nights a week. And still playing jigs and reels as much as I do now.
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Will CPT
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
As long as there are a few people who still play, there will always be ITM. I think everyone is forgetting all the "underground" groups and genres there are. I'm pretty sure there will always be a market for whatever music you want to play and perform, the only role popularity plays is on how well you get paid.
"In fact, I think many of us will die with instruments in our hands!"
That could be difficult for a person who plays piano like myself.
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by TJ
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
"Many of us will die with instruments in our hands."
Especially us banjo and accordion players. And I doubt the perpetrators will be prosecuted....
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Will CPT
Re: Is There Life Without ITM?
I think most of the traditional session music in the state of RI is pretty independent of trends or fads. Paying gig opportunities may ebb and flow, but us that play for drinks or for fun, we just keep on playing....and even in the worst of times, all of us get a few gigs in March!
Not to name drop, but I had the pleasure of talking to Joe Derrane from up Boston way at a festival once--he gave up the button box for playing piano accordion and keyboards, any type of music he could get gigs for, and then finally gave it up completely for years. But then, thank the Lord, in his retirement years, he came out of his musical retirement.
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by AlBrown