If you have a good bow hold then your thumb shouldn't make contact with the hair at all, although occasionally the back of the knuckle will bump into it. Try to NEVER touch the bow hair otherwise, particularly the rosined side, as finger oil is bad for the hair.
Is that really true about finger oil and bow hair? Or is that one of those urban myths? I could see your finger might rub the rosin off a bit, but as to oil being bad for the hair?
I read in another forum that someone who has a bit of an adventurous toddler who attacked her violin bow twice, washes the bow hair in very dilute washing-up liquid. Strange but true. Mind you, if the bow hair is messed up anyway, you might as well do anything to rescue it...
Those of us coming from the classical side of string playing were taught from an early age never to touch the bow hair.
It probably doesn't matter all that much, but it isn't a good idea for kids to get in the habit of doing this.
I went to a double bass workshop at New England Conservatory this summer, and the principal bassist of the San Francisco Symphony loosened the bow screw, took off the frog, and dipped the bow hair into a dish of warm water and dishwashing liquid. Then he replaced the frog, ran a toothbrush through the bow hair, shook it out, and dried it with a towel. I had never seen anything like it.
Here in Boston, re-hairs are going for $75 so anything you can do to preserve the hair is going to be helpful.
$75! Greg, move to Oklahoma! It's still only $30. We could use another bassist; we're doing the Mendelssohn Scottish Symphony (really, that's not just a cheap way to make this apply here ) and Beethoven Nine in the spring.
I myself have washed school bows--hand oil and grime are deadly. Dishsoap is good, and so is shampoo for oily hair. Rubbing alcohol will do if the grime seems hopeless. Do the toothbrush thing and let it dry thoroughly before rosining. Nothing replaces a re-hair, but prices can be high.
As far as grip goes (by the way, thanks Greg)--if the thumb joint is flexed enough outward, the thumbnail will come close to the hair, but not neccessarily touch. The key is to keep a feeling of roundness in the hold, keeping both thumb and pinkie curved. This will avoid undue stress in the hand and wrist, and make for good flexible bowing for those tricky patterns.
Hey! I need a re-hair - I'd be dead chuffed if I regained my locks for $ 75. I'm sure even Ptarmigan & Kenny would be very happy to pay that for getting their hair back!
Like I say--move to Oklahoma. My bow repair guy is a wizard; if he can rehair bows, I'm sure he'll get you guys fixed up, too! Will your heads fit in the bow vise, or are they too big?
"Try to NEVER touch the bow hair otherwise, particularly the rosined side, as finger oil is bad for the hair." Ah Ha, so that's it - must have spilled oil on my head at some stage! OK saiget, if your so smart, what's the cure? How does one restore one's hair?
I remember playing in a restaurant one time & getting Garlic Butter on the middle of my bow. It was a great laugh for the other guys there to hear my notes blank every time the garlic patch went over a string - bit like an old record that keeps jumping!
Yes Mark, I have washed my Bow Hair in - "very dilute washing-up liquid" - hell of a job getting it rosined up again though!
As for you Ron P, you obviously haven't seen me since I started using 'New Improved' "Wonder Grow"! I rub it in morning & night & I now look like one of the Beatles - Stag I think!
Does your thumb touch the bow hair? Depends on the size of your thumb. :oP
Seriously, my thumb does tend to touch the hair a bit when it flexes, so the hair has a dark oily smudge on it down near the frog. My bow hold passed muster with a slew of accomplished Irish fiddler teachers as well as a Carnegie Hall-playing classical teacher, so it's not "wrong." Seems like most well-played bows show signs of such thumb contact. No biggie.
Now, if only I could adapt the idea of washing to my harp strings.Unfortunately, they don't like moisture, being gut. At a gig in sardinia I put a damp towel over the outdide of the harp bag and in the morning I discovered two strings had unravelled and snapped. I never did that again!
OK, a bit off-topic, but how do you clean the gut strings that are wound with wire? Isopropyl doesn't do anything. Any ideas?
Ron P. (Kenny, Ptar-ptar, et al. I do my own rehairs since I tend to tear them up before they get dirty. ( Mostly from dropping down to that low G on Jig of Sligs, I meant Jar of Slugs, I mean Jug of.... (nevermind)).
Oh, yeah... the point..: That is stallion tail hair and I'm afraid that if one were re-pilitate with it., one might look like the back end of a horse. I would recommend investing a couple of bucks on a tube on Vaseline and let your Light so Shine.
Re finger oil being "bad" for bow hair: from viola da gamba experience (underhand grip, middle finger hooked around the hair to make minor tension adjustments, particularly at the beginning of a bow stroke) the worst that'll happen is you'll end up with a dirty-looking patch of hair that rosin won't stick to. I've yet to see a fiddler that uses every last centimetre of the bow hair. Gamba players certainly don't. As long as you don't touch the hair in the part that you use when you play, like Will said, no biggie.
well, it all depends.
do you play a violin or do you play a fiddle?
just kiddin. imho, never touch the hair!! all my bows are real horse hair and not that synthetic stuff, so in other words, not only will it sound bad in those areas. it will also just look bad having a white bow...then having a big black spot near the frog.
“OK, a bit off-topic, but how do you clean the gut strings that are wound with wire? Isopropyl doesn't do anything. Any ideas?”
If alcohol doesn’t remove it, it’s probably corrosion or etching on the surface of the metal. You can probably polish it off with a very fine grit sandpaper. Easist way to get it is in the manicure section of your local drug store. Those multi-grade buffing sticks usually have at least two grades that you can use on strings. Try the finest grade first – the one that’s for final polishing of nails. If that doesn’t do it, try the next roughest grade followed by the finest again.
This trick is great for renewing the surface of all kinds of strings. Or nearly all. I haven’t yet tried in on monofilament nylon strings, but I doubt if they would ever need it.
What a nice website! To think I'd never have found it if my boy hadn't polished his two-week-old violin. I mean REALLY polished it, even the hair on the bow, very thoroughly, with Fiddlebright oil. From reading this thread, I don't even have to ask the question; it would be too painful. (This is SO Irish, and so am I, partly, come to think of it.) Do any of you have any suggestions? Is there any hope?
My apologies! With a bit more diligence, I'd have found your wonderful 2004 discussion on cleaning bow hair. Peter O'Connor explains exactly how his Mother taught to do it. I'm off to try it; many thanks.
Bow Hold Question
Bow Hold Question
When holding the bow, does it matter if your thumb touches the bow hair?
# Posted on September 29th 2005 by Beheader
Re: Bow Hold Question
Ask Mairead Ni Mhaonaigh.
# Posted on September 29th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Bow Hold Question
If you have a good bow hold then your thumb shouldn't make contact with the hair at all, although occasionally the back of the knuckle will bump into it. Try to NEVER touch the bow hair otherwise, particularly the rosined side, as finger oil is bad for the hair.
# Posted on September 29th 2005 by Saiget
Re: Bow Hold Question
Is that really true about finger oil and bow hair? Or is that one of those urban myths? I could see your finger might rub the rosin off a bit, but as to oil being bad for the hair?
I read in another forum that someone who has a bit of an adventurous toddler who attacked her violin bow twice, washes the bow hair in very dilute washing-up liquid. Strange but true. Mind you, if the bow hair is messed up anyway, you might as well do anything to rescue it...
# Posted on September 29th 2005 by Mark Harmer
Re: Bow Hold Question
Those of us coming from the classical side of string playing were taught from an early age never to touch the bow hair.
It probably doesn't matter all that much, but it isn't a good idea for kids to get in the habit of doing this.
I went to a double bass workshop at New England Conservatory this summer, and the principal bassist of the San Francisco Symphony loosened the bow screw, took off the frog, and dipped the bow hair into a dish of warm water and dishwashing liquid. Then he replaced the frog, ran a toothbrush through the bow hair, shook it out, and dried it with a towel. I had never seen anything like it.
Here in Boston, re-hairs are going for $75 so anything you can do to preserve the hair is going to be helpful.
# Posted on September 29th 2005 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Bow Hold Question
...and as for the best bow grip, dmarie will surely have some very helpful advice.
# Posted on September 29th 2005 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Bow Hold Question
$75! Greg, move to Oklahoma! It's still only $30. We could use another bassist; we're doing the Mendelssohn Scottish Symphony (really, that's not just a cheap way to make this apply here
) and Beethoven Nine in the spring.
I myself have washed school bows--hand oil and grime are deadly. Dishsoap is good, and so is shampoo for oily hair. Rubbing alcohol will do if the grime seems hopeless. Do the toothbrush thing and let it dry thoroughly before rosining. Nothing replaces a re-hair, but prices can be high.
As far as grip goes (by the way, thanks Greg)--if the thumb joint is flexed enough outward, the thumbnail will come close to the hair, but not neccessarily touch. The key is to keep a feeling of roundness in the hold, keeping both thumb and pinkie curved. This will avoid undue stress in the hand and wrist, and make for good flexible bowing for those tricky patterns.
# Posted on September 29th 2005 by dmarie
Re: Bow Hold Question
Hey! I need a re-hair - I'd be dead chuffed if I regained my locks for $ 75. I'm sure even Ptarmigan & Kenny would be very happy to pay that for getting their hair back!
# Posted on September 30th 2005 by On Sabbatical
Re: Bow Hold Question
Like I say--move to Oklahoma. My bow repair guy is a wizard; if he can rehair bows, I'm sure he'll get you guys fixed up, too! Will your heads fit in the bow vise, or are they too big?
# Posted on September 30th 2005 by dmarie
Re: Bow Hold Question
"Try to NEVER touch the bow hair otherwise, particularly the rosined side, as finger oil is bad for the hair." Ah Ha, so that's it - must have spilled oil on my head at some stage! OK saiget, if your so smart, what's the cure? How does one restore one's hair?
I remember playing in a restaurant one time & getting Garlic Butter on the middle of my bow. It was a great laugh for the other guys there to hear my notes blank every time the garlic patch went over a string - bit like an old record that keeps jumping!
Yes Mark, I have washed my Bow Hair in - "very dilute washing-up liquid" - hell of a job getting it rosined up again though!
# Posted on September 30th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Bow Hold Question
As for you Ron P, you obviously haven't seen me since I started using 'New Improved' "Wonder Grow"! I rub it in morning & night & I now look like one of the Beatles - Stag I think!
# Posted on September 30th 2005 by Ptarmigan
Re: Bow Hold Question
Does your thumb touch the bow hair? Depends on the size of your thumb. :oP
Seriously, my thumb does tend to touch the hair a bit when it flexes, so the hair has a dark oily smudge on it down near the frog. My bow hold passed muster with a slew of accomplished Irish fiddler teachers as well as a Carnegie Hall-playing classical teacher, so it's not "wrong." Seems like most well-played bows show signs of such thumb contact. No biggie.
# Posted on September 30th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Bow Hold Question
Now, if only I could adapt the idea of washing to my harp strings.Unfortunately, they don't like moisture, being gut. At a gig in sardinia I put a damp towel over the outdide of the harp bag and in the morning I discovered two strings had unravelled and snapped. I never did that again!
OK, a bit off-topic, but how do you clean the gut strings that are wound with wire? Isopropyl doesn't do anything. Any ideas?
# Posted on September 30th 2005 by Mark Harmer
Re: Bow Hold Question
Ron P. (Kenny, Ptar-ptar, et al. I do my own rehairs since I tend to tear them up before they get dirty. ( Mostly from dropping down to that low G on Jig of Sligs, I meant Jar of Slugs, I mean Jug of.... (nevermind)).
Oh, yeah... the point..: That is stallion tail hair and I'm afraid that if one were re-pilitate with it., one might look like the back end of a horse. I would recommend investing a couple of bucks on a tube on Vaseline and let your Light so Shine.
# Posted on October 5th 2005 by Owell Mabee
Re: Bow Hold Question
Re finger oil being "bad" for bow hair: from viola da gamba experience (underhand grip, middle finger hooked around the hair to make minor tension adjustments, particularly at the beginning of a bow stroke) the worst that'll happen is you'll end up with a dirty-looking patch of hair that rosin won't stick to. I've yet to see a fiddler that uses every last centimetre of the bow hair. Gamba players certainly don't. As long as you don't touch the hair in the part that you use when you play, like Will said, no biggie.
# Posted on October 5th 2005 by Tish
Re: Bow Hold Question
well, it all depends.
do you play a violin or do you play a fiddle?
just kiddin. imho, never touch the hair!! all my bows are real horse hair and not that synthetic stuff, so in other words, not only will it sound bad in those areas. it will also just look bad having a white bow...then having a big black spot near the frog.
# Posted on October 5th 2005 by stringedrummer
Re: Bow Hold Question
“OK, a bit off-topic, but how do you clean the gut strings that are wound with wire? Isopropyl doesn't do anything. Any ideas?”
If alcohol doesn’t remove it, it’s probably corrosion or etching on the surface of the metal. You can probably polish it off with a very fine grit sandpaper. Easist way to get it is in the manicure section of your local drug store. Those multi-grade buffing sticks usually have at least two grades that you can use on strings. Try the finest grade first – the one that’s for final polishing of nails. If that doesn’t do it, try the next roughest grade followed by the finest again.
This trick is great for renewing the surface of all kinds of strings. Or nearly all. I haven’t yet tried in on monofilament nylon strings, but I doubt if they would ever need it.
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Bow Hold Question
...corrosion or etching or gunk that doesn't dissolve in alcohol.
# Posted on October 6th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Bow Hold Question
What a nice website! To think I'd never have found it if my boy hadn't polished his two-week-old violin. I mean REALLY polished it, even the hair on the bow, very thoroughly, with Fiddlebright oil. From reading this thread, I don't even have to ask the question; it would be too painful. (This is SO Irish, and so am I, partly, come to think of it.) Do any of you have any suggestions? Is there any hope?
# Posted on September 22nd 2007 by 5thGradeOrchestraMom
Re: Bow Hold Question
My apologies! With a bit more diligence, I'd have found your wonderful 2004 discussion on cleaning bow hair. Peter O'Connor explains exactly how his Mother taught to do it. I'm off to try it; many thanks.
# Posted on September 22nd 2007 by 5thGradeOrchestraMom