..it's no easy is it? I don't mean the tunes, I'm talking about trying to make a noise that can be heard above the fiddles and the, well... the fiddles actually. Don't get me wrong - I love fiddles in a session. But of course all your nice wee Arty McGlynn style trills and snaps and what not that you've worked so hard to get right just don't get heard. Actually, you just don't get heard. Maybe I could take my Marshall stack if I paint it green and cover it with peat?
I would suggest two solutions; get a louder guitar, raise the action, put heavier strings on it.
Oh, that's three solutions, Get a louder guitar, raise the action, put heavier strings on it, hit it with a harder pick.
Oh, that's four solutions.
Or, get a good bouzouki.
Good thing is to get heavy gauge strings and get a pick which is .72 or thicker. As to trills and snaps, well, the solution is just to get some tricks which are loud enough so that they might be heard, and leaving the more tasty ones for a smaller kitchen sessions
Now that I think of it, it's worth to play with a high capo, so that the tuning is higher and the sound sharper - it cuts better through the sound of other instruments.
Getting a Marshall to the session will take your sound through all right, but might get you through the window as well in no time - I found out (just my personal experience, not clinically tested) that getting any kind of elecroacoustic volume support allows the guitar to drown all other instruments, including fiddles and u-pipes.
well I've been mostly playing with one other guitar player, we trade lead/backup. I went to my first (& second) session last week and quickly determined that in such a circumstance I was much better off backing.
Problem there of course if there's another guitar player there playing backup then what happens when you choose different chords....watching didn't help me in one of the sessions 'cause he's DADGAD and I'm not.
I may decide that listening to the session is more fun for me. The other thing I got out of it was hearing beautiful new tunes I wanted to learn (of course I'm the annoying one constantly asking, what's that? what do you call that?).
Yes I know the whole point is to participate in the session...but I know what you mean, Cammy. For me, it wasn't just that I couldn't be heard but it was more that I felt I didn't contribute anything.
I misread this (must be staring at the screen too long) and thought it said "flatpacked guitar". I've been assembling IKEA flatpacked furniture, and thought a flatpacked guitar would be great - easy to travel with, and you just have to assemble it with the screws provided (and curse because there's always one bit missing). Nice idea anyway!
I just can't see flatpicking guitar in a session without some amplification, guitars just get lost in the noise unless you have a quiet venue and/or a small session. However, even with that there are great benefits if you're a crossover backup/melody player, I've recently started relearning all my mandolin flatpicked tunes in drop-D on the guitar so when I'm in a mood to play backup, I can at least start tunes sets...
I was having trouble making myself heard playing mando recently at a session and someone told me if I play right in the corner (facing the session of course!) I'd project better (too late, that seat was already taken) Anyone found this to be helpful?
Cammy sez: "A bazooka? Ok I want to be loud, but blowing the place apart is a little over the top don't you think?"
This is why my bouzouki magically becomes an "octave mandolin" within 3 miles of any US airport. This word association usually only happens with bluegrass folks and TSA employees... <G>
"Good thing is to get heavy gauge strings and get a pick which is .72 or thicker."
Janek, does "heavy gauge" mean something different in your neighborhood from the US? Heavy gauge strings here start at .014 inch and go to about .60, and using them on a flat-top guitar can void your warranty because they can do serious damage. Arch-tops can handle them, but flat-tops are almost always braced for light or medium gauge strings.
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions - Corners
I'd only worry about suggestions to play in the corner if it was on the other side of the room away from the session.
What's that funny looking hat over there in the corner?
Tony McManus told a funny anecdote about flat-picking at a session in Scotland. He was there playing away (the melody) with every note, triplet and ornamentation possible when the fiddle player next to him turned to him and said "it's in G". The tune was actually in Em!
Bobhimself, of course you're right. I totally forgot that what we consider 'heaviest' in here, which is about .12, is in the middle range in the US. Sorry for that, I was being ethnocentrist, I guess. Eh, globalism.
“Heavy gauge strings here start at .014 inch and go to about .60”
Hmmm, .60 would be heavy gauge, indeed. I meant .060, of course.
Somebody already mentioned that a sharper, brighter tone will cut through better. Using a heavy pick and playing closer to the bridge helps with this. I use a 1.00 mm nylon pick, but something more akin to tortoiseshell would have a slightly sharper attack.
Using the string that is right for the guitar is the importent thing. After all Django Reinhart used very light strings but on his archtops the strings vibrated the top just right and with his technique was VERY loud. I belive that putting too much pressure on the top will dampen the sound. (mediums for dreads - light/mediums on 000)
My local music shop has one of the eastern european-made "octave mandolins" in the window and, despite my pointing it out to them several weeks ago, still has it labelled as a "bazooki".
I'm still trying to argue for a rational system of labelling for these enlarged mandolin-family instruments, eg;
A "Tenor" mandola is so called by those who are still thinking of the tenor banjo - there always was a mandola, tuned CGda, old pre-folk revival ones had a scale of about 41.5 cm., they still turn up on ebay, etc..
Octave "mandolin" makes some sense to me.
How about "long-scale" octave mandolin for the bouzouki ?
How about "10-string" mandola for the cittern ?
PS Is it really true that flat-tops won't take more than a .012 top string ? They had much heavier than that when I was a lad. ( back when dinosaurs roamed the world chasing Raquel Welch in a fur bikini.)
Buy a six-string banjo -tune it like a normal guitar - and you'll be amazed at the noise you can make.If you decide to strum it you'll blast everyone out of the session !!
I bought a Deering six-string banjo - fantastic!
Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
..it's no easy is it? I don't mean the tunes, I'm talking about trying to make a noise that can be heard above the fiddles and the, well... the fiddles actually. Don't get me wrong - I love fiddles in a session. But of course all your nice wee Arty McGlynn style trills and snaps and what not that you've worked so hard to get right just don't get heard. Actually, you just don't get heard. Maybe I could take my Marshall stack if I paint it green and cover it with peat?
# Posted on September 10th 2005 by Cammy
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
One word:
"Tenorcaster."
KFG
# Posted on September 10th 2005 by KFG
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
I would suggest two solutions; get a louder guitar, raise the action, put heavier strings on it.
Oh, that's three solutions, Get a louder guitar, raise the action, put heavier strings on it, hit it with a harder pick.
Oh, that's four solutions.
Or, get a good bouzouki.
# Posted on September 10th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
A bazooka? Ok I want to be loud, but blowing the place apart is a little over the top don't you think?
# Posted on September 10th 2005 by Cammy
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
Good thing is to get heavy gauge strings and get a pick which is .72 or thicker. As to trills and snaps, well, the solution is just to get some tricks which are loud enough so that they might be heard, and leaving the more tasty ones for a smaller kitchen sessions
Now that I think of it, it's worth to play with a high capo, so that the tuning is higher and the sound sharper - it cuts better through the sound of other instruments.
Getting a Marshall to the session will take your sound through all right, but might get you through the window as well in no time - I found out (just my personal experience, not clinically tested) that getting any kind of elecroacoustic volume support allows the guitar to drown all other instruments, including fiddles and u-pipes.
# Posted on September 10th 2005 by Janek
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
well I've been mostly playing with one other guitar player, we trade lead/backup. I went to my first (& second) session last week and quickly determined that in such a circumstance I was much better off backing.
Problem there of course if there's another guitar player there playing backup then what happens when you choose different chords....watching didn't help me in one of the sessions 'cause he's DADGAD and I'm not.
I may decide that listening to the session is more fun for me. The other thing I got out of it was hearing beautiful new tunes I wanted to learn (of course I'm the annoying one constantly asking, what's that? what do you call that?).
Yes I know the whole point is to participate in the session...but I know what you mean, Cammy. For me, it wasn't just that I couldn't be heard but it was more that I felt I didn't contribute anything.
# Posted on September 10th 2005 by kbar
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
Hi Cammy
Disguise the marshall as a special "flatpick guitar chair" and sit on it. Just tell everyone you need to plug it in to power the heated seat.
# Posted on September 10th 2005 by Cuso
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
I misread this (must be staring at the screen too long) and thought it said "flatpacked guitar". I've been assembling IKEA flatpacked furniture, and thought a flatpacked guitar would be great - easy to travel with, and you just have to assemble it with the screws provided (and curse because there's always one bit missing). Nice idea anyway!
# Posted on September 10th 2005 by Mark Harmer
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
I just can't see flatpicking guitar in a session without some amplification, guitars just get lost in the noise unless you have a quiet venue and/or a small session. However, even with that there are great benefits if you're a crossover backup/melody player, I've recently started relearning all my mandolin flatpicked tunes in drop-D on the guitar so when I'm in a mood to play backup, I can at least start tunes sets...
# Posted on September 11th 2005 by Michael Eskin
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
"Guitars just get lost"
That's true.
Thankfully
# Posted on September 11th 2005 by Pól
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
>>With a rattling mechanical sound slowly turns the turret to aim at Pol<<
# Posted on September 11th 2005 by Janek
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
I was having trouble making myself heard playing mando recently at a session and someone told me if I play right in the corner (facing the session of course!) I'd project better (too late, that seat was already taken) Anyone found this to be helpful?
# Posted on September 11th 2005 by Cammy
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
Corners tend to beef up your low- and mid-range, especially. If it doesn't put you too far away, it probably would help.
# Posted on September 11th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
Cammy sez: "A bazooka? Ok I want to be loud, but blowing the place apart is a little over the top don't you think?"
This is why my bouzouki magically becomes an "octave mandolin" within 3 miles of any US airport. This word association usually only happens with bluegrass folks and TSA employees... <G>
stv
http://www.cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on September 11th 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
"Good thing is to get heavy gauge strings and get a pick which is .72 or thicker."
Janek, does "heavy gauge" mean something different in your neighborhood from the US? Heavy gauge strings here start at .014 inch and go to about .60, and using them on a flat-top guitar can void your warranty because they can do serious damage. Arch-tops can handle them, but flat-tops are almost always braced for light or medium gauge strings.
# Posted on September 11th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions - Corners
I'd only worry about suggestions to play in the corner if it was on the other side of the room away from the session.
What's that funny looking hat over there in the corner?
# Posted on September 12th 2005 by Donough
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
Tony McManus told a funny anecdote about flat-picking at a session in Scotland. He was there playing away (the melody) with every note, triplet and ornamentation possible when the fiddle player next to him turned to him and said "it's in G". The tune was actually in Em!
# Posted on September 12th 2005 by Donough
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
Bobhimself, of course you're right. I totally forgot that what we consider 'heaviest' in here, which is about .12, is in the middle range in the US. Sorry for that, I was being ethnocentrist, I guess. Eh, globalism.
# Posted on September 12th 2005 by Janek
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
Much of it is in the pick technique, the size of the session and how many tunes you know. Guitars can flatpick the tunes and should!
# Posted on September 12th 2005 by JPcares
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
“Heavy gauge strings here start at .014 inch and go to about .60”
Hmmm, .60 would be heavy gauge, indeed. I meant .060, of course.
Somebody already mentioned that a sharper, brighter tone will cut through better. Using a heavy pick and playing closer to the bridge helps with this. I use a 1.00 mm nylon pick, but something more akin to tortoiseshell would have a slightly sharper attack.
# Posted on September 12th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
Using the string that is right for the guitar is the importent thing. After all Django Reinhart used very light strings but on his archtops the strings vibrated the top just right and with his technique was VERY loud. I belive that putting too much pressure on the top will dampen the sound. (mediums for dreads - light/mediums on 000)
# Posted on September 12th 2005 by JPcares
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
Don't be so quick to dismiss the bazooka in a traditional music setting! These guys didn't, and it sure worked for them...
http://www.ecb.org.uk/recordings.htm
(You need to scroll down to the second recording "Traditional Irish Music and Song" and read the cover carefully)
# Posted on September 12th 2005 by grego
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
My local music shop has one of the eastern european-made "octave mandolins" in the window and, despite my pointing it out to them several weeks ago, still has it labelled as a "bazooki".
I'm still trying to argue for a rational system of labelling for these enlarged mandolin-family instruments, eg;
A "Tenor" mandola is so called by those who are still thinking of the tenor banjo - there always was a mandola, tuned CGda, old pre-folk revival ones had a scale of about 41.5 cm., they still turn up on ebay, etc..
Octave "mandolin" makes some sense to me.
How about "long-scale" octave mandolin for the bouzouki ?
How about "10-string" mandola for the cittern ?
PS Is it really true that flat-tops won't take more than a .012 top string ? They had much heavier than that when I was a lad. ( back when dinosaurs roamed the world chasing Raquel Welch in a fur bikini.)
# Posted on September 13th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Playing flatpicked guitar at sessions
Buy a six-string banjo -tune it like a normal guitar - and you'll be amazed at the noise you can make.If you decide to strum it you'll blast everyone out of the session !!
I bought a Deering six-string banjo - fantastic!
# Posted on September 22nd 2005 by Grant Perry