I was at Celtic Fusion this weekend in Castlewellan and saw 8 different bands performing live gigs to a large outdoor crowd. Whilst some of the music was excellent i was disappointed in the lack of any engagement with the audience from most of the bands. I don't want to start a debate on ITM does not suit the big stage or the music should speak for itself but i paid good money and if you bother to put a band together and want to perform gigs, at least acknowledge we are there and say hello rather than one conscript mumbling a few lines between tunes or worse a few band members sharing in jokes about themselves that only they find funny. Apart from that i had a wonderful time.
I got just the opposite effect last week, Johnny. Travelled up North a bit to see a band I'd met while compering one of the local get togethers. Ummed and ahhed for ages about putting the box in the boot of the car (along with the double pram, picnic rug, spare engine oil, etc.) then decided since the gig was a regular spot at a bar it didn't seem appropriate. First thing their box player said as I walked in was 'Hey Ian, did you bring your box?". D'oh!!!
Turned out it was a really informal setup with big leather sofas, plenty of room and a kid-friendly atmosphere. And the Guinness was on special all day...
The good news is it inspired me to learn the half dozen tunes I'd been meaning to pick up for weeks and which they played that evening - I'll go back in a few weeks armed with as many of the sets they played as I can remember.
Mind you, they knew I was a fellow diddler, so perhaps that doesn't count.
Eno
Stage presence is a big problem in Folk music. It is not there. They all can play, but hardly anybody can entertain or communicate with an audience. At the end the bands are surprised, that people Think they were boring, though they played fine music. It was so 30 Years ago and has not changed.
Is it music ye're looking for or stand-up? Loads of chat shows on TV with 'witty' presenters who can 'communicate' with an audience. I'd take myself off to the comedy tent if that's what you're after. At classical concerts most artists don't try to entertain either. Nor why should they - you go to a gig to hear music. If there's a few witty comments well and good, but if the player(s) are producing the goods, what's the problem????
I've noticed this even more so with many of the new younger bands(Scottish and Irish). Their level of musicianship far exceeds their experience and maturity as far as stage presentation goes. This is probably just an unfortunate side effect of the high standard of young players, many of whom have had the benefit of tuition, courses etc--I don't grudge them this, by the way.
However, the days of being able to form a band and doing gigs when you are "musically crap" are largely gone. In those days, by the time the music improved so did the stage presentation.
I don't think stage presentation has always been bad either. True, it's not always what people expect. As far as I'm concerned, it should be professional i.e clear announcements, no *uneccessary* tuning and retuning, and good communication with the audience. I'm not looking for jokes or rambling stories, although the odd one or two is OK if done well.
Continuo, I guess it's the matter of professionalism. I believe we're not speaking here flashing lights nor mandoline player running around the stage, screaming "Are you having fun?". It's more of keeping up the tension, and you need not be flashy to do that. Some people, like Martin McGuinnes, can do it brilliantly just sitting on the stool and explaining about the whereabouts of the tune, well spoken, short and in time.
Lack of stage presence means behaving in a manner that distracts people from listening/enjoying. It can really ruin the concert. There is a group in Poland which plays Irish traditional music - musically, they have no peer. Great ideas, great expression, good technique. Still, they do not get the credit they deserve - people tend to get bored during their concerts. The band members behave disorderly, you can sense their gloominess and reluctance, the frontman seems always depressed and displeased with the audience, his speech is disorganised and unstructured. Whatever they build with their music, they destroy with their stage appearance.
As people are saying, it's a strange thing. There's a highly skilled trio doing well in the UK at present. Their front man does a good line in lugubrious northern-England humour between sets, but last time I saw them, when they played, they seemed to withdraw into themselves. (This may now have changed.)
I guess we're talking about instrumental music here. It's a whole new ball game with singers although the same comments could often apply.
It may be boring so say it, but the best I can remember seeing were Aly Bain and Phil Cunningham. Phil Cunningham was hilarious between sets, and the music, (no songs,) just had that indefinable something.
On the other hand, I've sat (for a while) through some incredibly dull sets with "Keltic Kiddie" bands playing at the speed of light!
chadmills,
I agree with you completely about Phil Cunningham, in fact, I was thinking of him as I read the first few posts. He has you rolling in the aisles with his jokes, and then dancing in the aisle with his tunes. Showmanship and engagement with the audience is not incompatible with ITM, they are not mutually exclusive, nor should they be.
I think that's part of it, to be sure. But I also believe there are some musicians who are really born, or perhaps self-made, performers. They have certain qualities or personalities that enable them to seem enthusiastic, or at least very comfortable, about presenting their music to an audience. In fact, possessing those aforementioned characteristics may have helped them decide to embark on a musical career in the first place.
This is not to say that if you're not born with the performance sensibility you don't have any chance of attaining it. I think there are some musicians who, even if they're not natural chatterboxes or extroverts, recognized long ago the importance of being able to connect with the audience and worked up to at least some kind of competence in that department.
I try to be as engaging as possible if I'm up on stage, without trying to make it seem as if I'm doing a shtick. I must acknowledge that, sure, I sometimes think about -- even "rehearse" -- my stage patter well before a concert, but largely in terms of what I'm trying to convey about the song or tunes I am/we are about to play. That still leaves room for off-the-cuff exchanges with band members or people in the audience.
Stage presence? What about Kevin Crawford with Lúnasa or Colm O'Donnell with the Border Collies just to name two! I'm sure there are lots of other examples but these two immediately come to mind.
I agree that stage presence can be an important component of any performance. I recently went to a Joe Burke concert and enjoyed his interaction with the audience almost as much as his playing.
Even when he made the rare slip up he was able to turn it into entertainment with his facial gestures.
Was a time when music was part of general form of social intercourse. Now people go down the pub, hammer through the tunes, don't interract or sometimes even acknowledge anyone else in the room (pay attention Dow ), and the culture of musician as a bit of a raconteur has gone to be replaced by self absorbtion. It's also probably a bit to do with bands modelling themselves on rock musicians, and a sort of alienation and decontextualisation of the music, so it's become detached from any real reason for it's own existance.
Of course this is a gross overgeneralisation, but older musicians tend to be a lot better in actually making you feel that there is a point to being at the gig, rather than just listening to a CD in the car. I saw Joe Burke a few years back. I don't think he can have played more than half a dozen tunes, he told so many dodgy anecdotes, but everyone was rivetted to their seats, and left with big smiles on their faces.
Agree totally with Johnny. The exception to the rule was the Saw Doctors who were absolutely out of this world. Great energy and drive and they drew the crowd right into the performance.
Even super bands like Providence [whose music was just to die for ] really didn't try to entertain the crowd.
This is an opportunity to get across to people who are maybe not 'into' the music and when you are on a stage with hundreds of potential customers and lovers of the music there then I think you should be trying to show how much fun the music is. Not just grumpily rattling out the reels and jigs.
But that's all by the by. The festival was brilliant - great music, super venue, well organised, safe for the kids, good sessions around the town that many of the main stage artists went along to, and the weather was just perfect.
Eat yer hearts out all ye that didn't get to see it.
I'd forgotten about the Saw Doctors, the freedom fighters with mandolins... I haven't seen them for years. Now they really are a fun band!
All together now:
"Yes I wish I was on that N 17,
Stone walls and the grass is green.
Travelling with just my thoughts and dreams!"
My education in the theatrical arts taught me that there is a difference between stage presence and stage presentation. Stage presence is a special something that some people have that makes them stand out whatever they are doing. Funny, I experienced the difference just this weekend. Saturday a fund raiser session was broken up by a couple of singers that asked to join the session and then had to go right through their staged presentation of about 100 songs (I am NOT kidding) from start to finish with all the ‘charming’ patter you could ask for. They were like a wind up monkey that you couldn’t stop for 3 hours (really) till they ran out. Then at a festival on Sunday I saw Jerry O’Sullivan and a young group called Ce’ with all the presence you could ask for. No patter just great energy and good tunes. That’s stage presence.
Stage presence is largely a matter of focus by the performer. Stage shows, though, are rehearsed and polished, and so take time to develop. There's a lot that goes into putting together a good stage show, involving rhythm and focus and style and...wait, that sounds like what goes into making good Irish trad music.
Stage presence is a true art. I remember attending a concert by the late, great Ella Fitzgerald a year or so before her death. Her voice was all but gone, but she still had the audience electrified. She was THERE for each and every one of us. She didn't talk that much, but her delivery, her musicianship and her showmanship were 200%. She really demonstrated that there is a huge difference between singing (or playing) and performing.
Stage presence is easier said than done. People like Phil Cunningham are naturally charismatic and must have grown up with lovely story tellers. Frankie Kennedy was brilliant on stage too, but he was always working on jokes and was naturally funny off stage.
I think the point stands though, that perhaps people need to take the time to practice or think about their presence, rather than just their set list.
Just to be controversial, when I saw Joe Burke at a festival recently, he made me feel like I was sitting in McGurk's Pub. For me, that was a bad thing. I love his style and I'd rather hear a rake of tunes than a bunch of pub banter.
In conclusion, good stage presence for one might be bad for another.
I think we need to keep in mind that stage presence is not the same as telling jokes and stories. Everything is about the delivery. If you are a good joke or story teller great.. but if not then it doesn't mean that you are not capable of having a great stage presence. There are some musicians who IMHO can capture your attention without ever saying a word or wasting a gesture when they perform. I am not sure why when they play you watch and listen. Others can banter up and down and tell jokes that when told by someone else would be great but you just are not interested.
Jode, maybe that IS his style, his tunes come across with such joy because he places them in the context of all the banter, and that is maybe the way he prepares himself to play them. Paul McGratten said (this isn't name-dropping, it was at a workshop) that one of the best lessons in flute playing (specifically in regard to how to practice) he had ever received was from an Indian flute player who would never pick up his flute to practice a note without previously meditating for some hours on precisely what he was planning/hoping to acheive (I bet you don't get a 'rake of tunes' out of that guy) - maybe all the banter is Joe's 'meditation'.
Anyway - who would want to hear an hour of someone playing solo box?
No, but I would be if I said that Jack Gilder (star of ClareFM and all points West) had said that Ottery said that Paul McGratten said that the best lesson, etc. etc.....
Jackie Chan made a film in Melbourne and must have eaten at every Chinese restaurant in town if you believe all the signed photos.
Sorri Kerri.
I know yours is "special".
To continue with the name dropping, I was lucky enough to see Mr. Burke play with Sean McGuire and this was definitely not the pub show brought to a stage. It was, in fact, incredible.
Stage presence really is a matter of focus. You can develop stage presence, it's not really an art, it's more a tool. A lot of it has to do with how self-confident you look (not necessarily how self-confident you feel).
Working with the dancers, I've asked the young'uns who have problems in this area to be thinking, "okay, everybody, you should all be watching ME, ME, ME!!!" It's semi a joke, and it makes them laugh, but... weirdly, this actually often works -- they stand differently, they hold themselves differently, and the eye tends to stay on them longer.
It depends what you are looking for. Someone once said to me "apart from that drum, you're useless on all those other instruments, but you can entertain". Very discerning, and if you are being paid to play, you are basically being paid to entertain.
If you are appearing on a stage, with people paying in, well you need to entertain, otherwise they could have just copied the CD.
The old English folk clubs, when there were thousands of them, every singer/songwriter and musician could have a bit of banter with the audience, and this was part of the entertainment.
If however you are playing at a session in say the "John Hewitt" in Belfast, you'd be wasting your time getting a bit of rapport, because basically you are wallpaper/background music, so you might as well play for your own pleasure, a la Dow.
By the way, can't stand the "Saw Doctors". But that's just me. They probably wouldn't like me.
I have to agree that there is a big difference between stage presence and stage patter. Some of my favourite musicians have both, but I am definately there to hear the music - the jokes are a bonus.
Occasionally when I go to hear the likes of Phil Cunningham or Kevin Burke play, I find myself wishing they would tell a few less stories and play a few more tunes. The stories are tremendously entertaining, but sometimes the end of the set comes all too quickly and I find myself wishing they'd played a bit more. However, I suspect that years of performing experience has taught them that the majority of the audience enjoys the chat and it keeps them on side.
Those of us who are willing to listen to traditional music played full on with little or no speaking - in the way that classical music generally is - are probably in the minority. And while I am perfectly happy to listen in this way, I still appreciate hearing stories that relate to the tunes in particular - and also the feeling that I have gotten to know the musician a bit through what they have to say.
From a musicians point of view, I can't speak for the festival johnny was at, but at some gigs there is a feeling that the crowd is not attentive enough to make speaking worthwhile. If it's a "sit down and listen" type concert, then hopefully this is not the case, but there's nothing worse than trying to introduce a set to a rowdy crowd who just aren't interested.
One of my favorite stage presence moments was when I finally found myself actually watching Leif performing with his celtic rock band. (I had managed to avoid the opportunity up until then) The idea, I think, was that everyone on stage jump at the finale of the tune they had just executed. (literal meaning) The problem was that to everyone but Leif, this meant jumping and landing on the stage at the final stroke. To Leif (maybe because he's from Norway and they jump different there) he though it meant jumping and leaving the floor of the stage on the final stroke. The result was that it appeared that the combined weight of Leif’s band mates landing on the stage at the same time propelled Leif into the air. I was impressed.
The key word here being "stage," it's only fair to note that one's presence also depends on where said stage is: a smallish "coffeehouse"-type venue, or a large-ish festival?
It really does matter, of course. One prime example of this I like to cite is actually a non-Irish, non-traditional and non-MUSIC one: Steve Martin's "Comedy Is Not Pretty" album. About half of the record was taken from his performance in a nightclub, and there he's far more subtle and cerebral (well, relatively speaking -- if you're familiar with Steve Martin). The other half of the album was recorded at, I think, The Hollywood Bowl, in front of a big, whooping crowd. In that setting, Martin's practically shouting most of the time, because he has a much larger, more high-spirited audience, and while he's still funny, it's a far different kind of funny -- and not as satisfying, to my mind.
A little rant from me:
I can't argue with the fact that the punters need to be entertained, and there are some really funny musicians out there - like Cunningham.
On the other hand one of the biggest gripes I have with our local music Festival here is that they bring in so many funny men. As if that meant they were great because they were entertaining. If I want comedy I will go to a comedy Festival. One of the main overseas headline acts was supposedly a great singer songwriter as well as a comedian and I left after 5 mins of pain. I have to say the audience were lapping it up which probably only made me even more p*ssed off. To me he sounded like a shopping centre spruiker, selling vacuum cleaners or vegetable slicers.
I know I'm the odd man out, here!
As for myself I am still painfully aware that I need to improve my stage presence, but I know I will never be as funny as the likes of Cunningham - so I am not aiming to be. Just do my best to communicate with the audience.
wow i didn't realise i'd get so many responses. I have to stress the quality of the music was excellent but a wee bit of acknowledgement and even some sign that they were happy to be there was all i meant especially from bands like Providence. Saw Doctors were great performers and you got exactly what it said on the tin but i wouldn't expect all the bands to be like that. The local band who got together for the festival "Concordance" were brilliant but i was refering mainly to established touring bands in terms of stage presence.
Donogh, I believe your point of view is everyone else's. Stage presence doesn't have and needn't be about being a comedian. It's rather acknowledging that you play for the people who paid for the tickets, and having a, as you said, communication with them. I also don't like 'overdone' gigs, where the musician forgets what he was supposed to do there in the first place. I thoroughly enjoy gigs where peformers just introduce themselves and then go on playing, but their behaviour shows that they see the audience is there and that they are not nauseated by the fact.
How did I manage to get 2 mentions on this thread? Just because I grumpily play jigs and reels purely for my own pleasure and ignore everyone else in the room. So what. Just don't speak to me or I'll bite your head off - I'm busy enjoying myself.
Yeah some people don't have stage presence, but you should give them a bit of slack. It's a bloody hard thing to do, getting up and playing in front of an audience. You can rehearse your tunes and patter and jokes in your head and imagine yourself able to do it, and then crumble when the time comes and you have to perform. That's why I don't do public performances and stick to sessions. They're so much easier because you can just enjoy the tunes and ignore everyone else
Dow, it sounds like you went to the Ozzie Ozbourne School of Stage Presence. I understand that smashing one's instrument is also a real crowd pleaser and part of the course.
I find it excrutiatingly painful having seen the same musicians twice or three times on the same tour churn out the same patter word for word in exactly the same spot in the evening. The jokes are no longer funny and even the music becomes predictable. Sad, sad, sad.
This is the problem. It's even worse when they repeat them *every* tour. John McCusker is really bad for this. A great musician but a really corny teller of jokes.
You have to be really clever, original, and freash to get away with this sort of things. Best to keep it simple, otherwise.
Patkiwi and John J have uncovered the dark side of stage patter, when it is not natural and spontaneous, but mapped out too tightly in advance. Or like baglady said, when it is stage presentation rather than stage presence. Conversation between numbers is best when it is unforced and flows naturally, as if the conversation was personal. And since personal conversations don't normally involve one person speaking to hundreds, it is not easily pulled off!
And don't forget that the playing itself, and how you interact with the audience when you are bowing, squeezing, blowing, strumming, etc--that is the gist of it!
Patkiwi - you didn't think it was all spontaneous did you? Try watching any performance night after night. Stand up comedy with its adlibs is all rehearsed down to the last little comma.
Yes, at small comedy clubs round the nation. We went to one while we were in NYC; two of the acts were pretty painful, but the rest were pretty good -- the last one was of course the most experienced, and made everything seem the most spontaneous.
Again -- stage presence has nothing to do with acknowledging your audience, but stage presentation, the show itself, does. you can have gobs of stage presence and still be a lousy performer.
No me digas tonterias, por favor. These categories are not mutually exclusive. for example the aforementioned Lunasa frontman and flute genius Kevin Crawford quite obvious has his stage patter off to a tee -- but it's still funny -- and by all accounts he is a very funny guy in "real life".
I sometimes wonder if some people on this site just dream up theories that they think *might* be right in order to have to say something, because otherwise they won't have anything concrete to pontificate on.
The worst band I ever saw for stage presence between songs was Kate and Anna McGarrigle et al. They are sublime when performing but were an absolute shambles between songs. I saw them several times and between 1976 band 1998 and they were just as bad the last time as the first. It didn't really matter though as the musice was so wonderful.
One of the best was Robin Williamson. Just him, his harp and a load of songs , tunes and stories.
I agree with BB about the Saw Doctors. I played at the Trowbridge Festival a couple of weeks ago and they were on after us and were pretty average. They managed to drive a lot out the main tent pretty quickly ...although not as quickly as Jah Wobble a couple of years ago. He really was cr@p beyond belief.
I never saw Robin Williamson with that line up. I did see him with his Merry Band in Bath in1978 and again it was one of the best gigs I ever heard. Four great musicians.
Ah, Robin Williamson. Now that there's a feller what can hold yer attention. I've got a video of him in solo concert (Vestapol Videos) that is forking brilliant.
Pingu, I love the idea/image of sliding a piece of concrete under me when I want to pontificate on some subject.
Anyway what I was going to say was that singers have it easier IMHO as they are sort of talking to the audience when they sing and the words hold the attention of those that are less musical in the audience. By comparison it is harder to engage an audience completely with only tunes. It is therefore all the more important to have something to say about the tune beforehand even if it isn't funny to give the punter something to think about whilst listening to the tunes.
Something to do with right brain/left brain.
Now let me slide off that shlab of concrete
I think it's sad that people have to be told what to think. It's sad that they lack the imagination to enjoy music unless it has words you can sing along to. Why do they have to be given something to think about so they can get through a set of tunes without losing their concentration? Why can't they enjoy the music for the lovely, abstract, indescribable thing that it is? I could never waste my time on people like that. They should bloody well be made to stay at home in front of the telly while I go out and have a good time.
Pingu: "for example the aforementioned Lunasa frontman and flute genius Kevin Crawford quite obvious has his stage patter off to a tee -- but it's still funny -- and by all accounts he is a very funny guy in "real life".
Dow, for some silly reason, once in a while people actually pay to hear me (usually with others) play music. Maybe it's out of a sense of misplaced guilt or something I feel I have to repay them by providing some form of entertainment. This is why I too, prefer playing in sessions where I can be totally oblivious of any punters and just enjoy the music for it's own sake.
Even free beer at a session makes me feel edgy that I have to "put up" a product. Mavbe I just need some therapy and I will be cured of this affliction.
Dow - Best mate? you must be joking - he's not famous enough for me. Remember, I knocked back madonna for a ride. And britney. None of them are good enough for me. Only myself is good enough for me. At least I guess that's what you're implying with your peurile bellicose tirades, so to save you the bother I've said it for you. Happy now? OK, can we swiftly move back to the topic being discussed?.....
Anyway the only way I can explain it to you is this. It's not Pingu's fault. It's that Jocks and Geordies are a bad mix from the outset. Jocks just can't take it that Geordies are a superior race of people. If you go over the border near Coldstream there's a pile of about 20 black binbags full of rubbish, and the rubbish never gets collected - it just gets moved from one side of the border to the other. One day the Geordie side will breathe a sigh of resignation and simply take away the rubbish and dispose of it properly at a tip, because basically we're cleaner people and we don't let our armpits get sweaty. Pingu's even worse than a standard Jock because he's half Cockney, like, talk about mix from hell...
Well, it's only 11.35am here and all of a sudden I feel really sleepy ...*Yawn*... I wish there was a bed in my office....why are my eyes suddenly glazing over?
All the best performers
a) can play well or at least are aware of their limitations
b) engage with the audience
c) look as if they are having fun!
d) don't have amps up too loud
Stage Presence???
Stage Presence???
I was at Celtic Fusion this weekend in Castlewellan and saw 8 different bands performing live gigs to a large outdoor crowd. Whilst some of the music was excellent i was disappointed in the lack of any engagement with the audience from most of the bands. I don't want to start a debate on ITM does not suit the big stage or the music should speak for itself but i paid good money and if you bother to put a band together and want to perform gigs, at least acknowledge we are there and say hello rather than one conscript mumbling a few lines between tunes or worse a few band members sharing in jokes about themselves that only they find funny. Apart from that i had a wonderful time.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by johnny
Re: Stage Presence???
I got just the opposite effect last week, Johnny. Travelled up North a bit to see a band I'd met while compering one of the local get togethers. Ummed and ahhed for ages about putting the box in the boot of the car (along with the double pram, picnic rug, spare engine oil, etc.) then decided since the gig was a regular spot at a bar it didn't seem appropriate. First thing their box player said as I walked in was 'Hey Ian, did you bring your box?". D'oh!!!
Turned out it was a really informal setup with big leather sofas, plenty of room and a kid-friendly atmosphere. And the Guinness was on special all day...
The good news is it inspired me to learn the half dozen tunes I'd been meaning to pick up for weeks and which they played that evening - I'll go back in a few weeks armed with as many of the sets they played as I can remember.
Mind you, they knew I was a fellow diddler, so perhaps that doesn't count.
Eno
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by bc_box_player
Re: It is not there
Stage presence is a big problem in Folk music. It is not there. They all can play, but hardly anybody can entertain or communicate with an audience. At the end the bands are surprised, that people Think they were boring, though they played fine music. It was so 30 Years ago and has not changed.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Ranks
Re: Stage Presence???
Is it music ye're looking for or stand-up? Loads of chat shows on TV with 'witty' presenters who can 'communicate' with an audience. I'd take myself off to the comedy tent if that's what you're after. At classical concerts most artists don't try to entertain either. Nor why should they - you go to a gig to hear music. If there's a few witty comments well and good, but if the player(s) are producing the goods, what's the problem????
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by continuo
Re: Stage Presence???
I've noticed this even more so with many of the new younger bands(Scottish and Irish). Their level of musicianship far exceeds their experience and maturity as far as stage presentation goes. This is probably just an unfortunate side effect of the high standard of young players, many of whom have had the benefit of tuition, courses etc--I don't grudge them this, by the way.
However, the days of being able to form a band and doing gigs when you are "musically crap" are largely gone. In those days, by the time the music improved so did the stage presentation.
I don't think stage presentation has always been bad either. True, it's not always what people expect. As far as I'm concerned, it should be professional i.e clear announcements, no *uneccessary* tuning and retuning, and good communication with the audience. I'm not looking for jokes or rambling stories, although the odd one or two is OK if done well.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: Stage Presence???
Continuo, I guess it's the matter of professionalism. I believe we're not speaking here flashing lights nor mandoline player running around the stage, screaming "Are you having fun?". It's more of keeping up the tension, and you need not be flashy to do that. Some people, like Martin McGuinnes, can do it brilliantly just sitting on the stool and explaining about the whereabouts of the tune, well spoken, short and in time.
Lack of stage presence means behaving in a manner that distracts people from listening/enjoying. It can really ruin the concert. There is a group in Poland which plays Irish traditional music - musically, they have no peer. Great ideas, great expression, good technique. Still, they do not get the credit they deserve - people tend to get bored during their concerts. The band members behave disorderly, you can sense their gloominess and reluctance, the frontman seems always depressed and displeased with the audience, his speech is disorganised and unstructured. Whatever they build with their music, they destroy with their stage appearance.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Janek
Re: Stage Presence???
As people are saying, it's a strange thing. There's a highly skilled trio doing well in the UK at present. Their front man does a good line in lugubrious northern-England humour between sets, but last time I saw them, when they played, they seemed to withdraw into themselves. (This may now have changed.)
I guess we're talking about instrumental music here. It's a whole new ball game with singers although the same comments could often apply.
It may be boring so say it, but the best I can remember seeing were Aly Bain and Phil Cunningham. Phil Cunningham was hilarious between sets, and the music, (no songs,) just had that indefinable something.
On the other hand, I've sat (for a while) through some incredibly dull sets with "Keltic Kiddie" bands playing at the speed of light!
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by TomB-R
Re: Stage Presence???
(Frankie Gavin came pretty close to Bain/Cunningham last time I saw him.)
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by TomB-R
Re: Stage Presence???
chadmills,
I agree with you completely about Phil Cunningham, in fact, I was thinking of him as I read the first few posts. He has you rolling in the aisles with his jokes, and then dancing in the aisle with his tunes. Showmanship and engagement with the audience is not incompatible with ITM, they are not mutually exclusive, nor should they be.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Stage Presence???
>I guess it's the matter of professionalism.
I think that's part of it, to be sure. But I also believe there are some musicians who are really born, or perhaps self-made, performers. They have certain qualities or personalities that enable them to seem enthusiastic, or at least very comfortable, about presenting their music to an audience. In fact, possessing those aforementioned characteristics may have helped them decide to embark on a musical career in the first place.
This is not to say that if you're not born with the performance sensibility you don't have any chance of attaining it. I think there are some musicians who, even if they're not natural chatterboxes or extroverts, recognized long ago the importance of being able to connect with the audience and worked up to at least some kind of competence in that department.
I try to be as engaging as possible if I'm up on stage, without trying to make it seem as if I'm doing a shtick. I must acknowledge that, sure, I sometimes think about -- even "rehearse" -- my stage patter well before a concert, but largely in terms of what I'm trying to convey about the song or tunes I am/we are about to play. That still leaves room for off-the-cuff exchanges with band members or people in the audience.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by sts
Re: Stage Presence???
Stage presence? What about Kevin Crawford with Lúnasa or Colm O'Donnell with the Border Collies just to name two! I'm sure there are lots of other examples but these two immediately come to mind.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Bannerman
Re: Stage Presence???
I agree that stage presence can be an important component of any performance. I recently went to a Joe Burke concert and enjoyed his interaction with the audience almost as much as his playing.
Even when he made the rare slip up he was able to turn it into entertainment with his facial gestures.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by shaw
Re: Stage Presence???
Was a time when music was part of general form of social intercourse. Now people go down the pub, hammer through the tunes, don't interract or sometimes even acknowledge anyone else in the room (pay attention Dow
), and the culture of musician as a bit of a raconteur has gone to be replaced by self absorbtion. It's also probably a bit to do with bands modelling themselves on rock musicians, and a sort of alienation and decontextualisation of the music, so it's become detached from any real reason for it's own existance.
Of course this is a gross overgeneralisation, but older musicians tend to be a lot better in actually making you feel that there is a point to being at the gig, rather than just listening to a CD in the car. I saw Joe Burke a few years back. I don't think he can have played more than half a dozen tunes, he told so many dodgy anecdotes, but everyone was rivetted to their seats, and left with big smiles on their faces.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Stage Presence???
You beat me to it Shaw!
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Stage Presence???
Agree totally with Johnny. The exception to the rule was the Saw Doctors who were absolutely out of this world. Great energy and drive and they drew the crowd right into the performance.
] really didn't try to entertain the crowd.
Even super bands like Providence [whose music was just to die for
This is an opportunity to get across to people who are maybe not 'into' the music and when you are on a stage with hundreds of potential customers and lovers of the music there then I think you should be trying to show how much fun the music is. Not just grumpily rattling out the reels and jigs.
But that's all by the by. The festival was brilliant - great music, super venue, well organised, safe for the kids, good sessions around the town that many of the main stage artists went along to, and the weather was just perfect.
Eat yer hearts out all ye that didn't get to see it.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by breandan
Re: Stage Presence???
I'd forgotten about the Saw Doctors, the freedom fighters with mandolins... I haven't seen them for years. Now they really are a fun band!
All together now:
"Yes I wish I was on that N 17,
Stone walls and the grass is green.
Travelling with just my thoughts and dreams!"
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Stage Presence???
Yep - and they actually had one of the N17 road signs with them !!
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by breandan
Re: Stage Presence???
I think the other one's in our caving club cottage in Wales (Along with the old 'Visit the Aran Island - Bill O'Brien's Boats' sign from Doolin pier!)
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Stage Presence???
My education in the theatrical arts taught me that there is a difference between stage presence and stage presentation. Stage presence is a special something that some people have that makes them stand out whatever they are doing. Funny, I experienced the difference just this weekend. Saturday a fund raiser session was broken up by a couple of singers that asked to join the session and then had to go right through their staged presentation of about 100 songs (I am NOT kidding) from start to finish with all the ‘charming’ patter you could ask for. They were like a wind up monkey that you couldn’t stop for 3 hours (really) till they ran out. Then at a festival on Sunday I saw Jerry O’Sullivan and a young group called Ce’ with all the presence you could ask for. No patter just great energy and good tunes. That’s stage presence.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by baglady
Re: Stage Presence???
The topic reminds me of a great song on an old Eric Bogle album that went "You're a bloody rotten audience, whilst I am very good..."
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by grego
Re: Stage Presence???
Stage presence is largely a matter of focus by the performer. Stage shows, though, are rehearsed and polished, and so take time to develop. There's a lot that goes into putting together a good stage show, involving rhythm and focus and style and...wait, that sounds like what goes into making good Irish trad music.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Stage Presence???
Johnny, go see any of the following to renew your faith in showmanship:
Natalie MacMaster
La Bottine Souriante
Alasdair Fraser
Eileen Ivers
Dougie MacLean
le Vent du Nord
Altan
Good luck!
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Stage Presence???
Stage presence is a true art. I remember attending a concert by the late, great Ella Fitzgerald a year or so before her death. Her voice was all but gone, but she still had the audience electrified. She was THERE for each and every one of us. She didn't talk that much, but her delivery, her musicianship and her showmanship were 200%. She really demonstrated that there is a huge difference between singing (or playing) and performing.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by KateG
Re: Stage Presence???
Stage presence is easier said than done. People like Phil Cunningham are naturally charismatic and must have grown up with lovely story tellers. Frankie Kennedy was brilliant on stage too, but he was always working on jokes and was naturally funny off stage.
I think the point stands though, that perhaps people need to take the time to practice or think about their presence, rather than just their set list.
Just to be controversial, when I saw Joe Burke at a festival recently, he made me feel like I was sitting in McGurk's Pub. For me, that was a bad thing. I love his style and I'd rather hear a rake of tunes than a bunch of pub banter.
In conclusion, good stage presence for one might be bad for another.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Jode
Re: Stage Presence???
I think we need to keep in mind that stage presence is not the same as telling jokes and stories. Everything is about the delivery. If you are a good joke or story teller great.. but if not then it doesn't mean that you are not capable of having a great stage presence. There are some musicians who IMHO can capture your attention without ever saying a word or wasting a gesture when they perform. I am not sure why when they play you watch and listen. Others can banter up and down and tell jokes that when told by someone else would be great but you just are not interested.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by bill_mchale
Re: Stage Presence???
Jode, maybe that IS his style, his tunes come across with such joy because he places them in the context of all the banter, and that is maybe the way he prepares himself to play them. Paul McGratten said (this isn't name-dropping, it was at a workshop) that one of the best lessons in flute playing (specifically in regard to how to practice) he had ever received was from an Indian flute player who would never pick up his flute to practice a note without previously meditating for some hours on precisely what he was planning/hoping to acheive (I bet you don't get a 'rake of tunes' out of that guy) - maybe all the banter is Joe's 'meditation'.
Anyway - who would want to hear an hour of someone playing solo box?
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Stage Presence???
"Paul McGratten said (this isn't name-dropping, it was at a workshop)"
If I say that Ottery said this will I be "name dropping"?
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Stage Presence???
No, but I would be if I said that Jack Gilder (star of ClareFM and all points West) had said that Ottery said that Paul McGratten said that the best lesson, etc. etc.....
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Stage Presence???
Anyway, I'm off to Slough!
Byee!
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Stage Presence???
(scratching head) *scratch scratch*
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Stage Presence???
What if I say I have a photo of myself and jackie Chan. Is that name dropping?
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Stage Presence???
Jackie Chan made a film in Melbourne and must have eaten at every Chinese restaurant in town if you believe all the signed photos.
Sorri Kerri.
I know yours is "special".
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Bren
Re: Stage Presence???
Ottery, say hi to Mr. Brent for me.
To continue with the name dropping, I was lucky enough to see Mr. Burke play with Sean McGuire and this was definitely not the pub show brought to a stage. It was, in fact, incredible.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Jode
Re: Stage Presence???
Stage presence really is a matter of focus. You can develop stage presence, it's not really an art, it's more a tool. A lot of it has to do with how self-confident you look (not necessarily how self-confident you feel).
Working with the dancers, I've asked the young'uns who have problems in this area to be thinking, "okay, everybody, you should all be watching ME, ME, ME!!!" It's semi a joke, and it makes them laugh, but... weirdly, this actually often works -- they stand differently, they hold themselves differently, and the eye tends to stay on them longer.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Stage Presence???
It depends what you are looking for. Someone once said to me "apart from that drum, you're useless on all those other instruments, but you can entertain". Very discerning, and if you are being paid to play, you are basically being paid to entertain.
If you are appearing on a stage, with people paying in, well you need to entertain, otherwise they could have just copied the CD.
The old English folk clubs, when there were thousands of them, every singer/songwriter and musician could have a bit of banter with the audience, and this was part of the entertainment.
If however you are playing at a session in say the "John Hewitt" in Belfast, you'd be wasting your time getting a bit of rapport, because basically you are wallpaper/background music, so you might as well play for your own pleasure, a la Dow.
By the way, can't stand the "Saw Doctors". But that's just me. They probably wouldn't like me.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Stage Presence???
I have to agree that there is a big difference between stage presence and stage patter. Some of my favourite musicians have both, but I am definately there to hear the music - the jokes are a bonus.
Occasionally when I go to hear the likes of Phil Cunningham or Kevin Burke play, I find myself wishing they would tell a few less stories and play a few more tunes. The stories are tremendously entertaining, but sometimes the end of the set comes all too quickly and I find myself wishing they'd played a bit more. However, I suspect that years of performing experience has taught them that the majority of the audience enjoys the chat and it keeps them on side.
Those of us who are willing to listen to traditional music played full on with little or no speaking - in the way that classical music generally is - are probably in the minority. And while I am perfectly happy to listen in this way, I still appreciate hearing stories that relate to the tunes in particular - and also the feeling that I have gotten to know the musician a bit through what they have to say.
From a musicians point of view, I can't speak for the festival johnny was at, but at some gigs there is a feeling that the crowd is not attentive enough to make speaking worthwhile. If it's a "sit down and listen" type concert, then hopefully this is not the case, but there's nothing worse than trying to introduce a set to a rowdy crowd who just aren't interested.
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by kris
Re: Stage Presence???
Amen to that, Kris!
# Posted on August 8th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Stage Presence???
One of my favorite stage presence moments was when I finally found myself actually watching Leif performing with his celtic rock band. (I had managed to avoid the opportunity up until then) The idea, I think, was that everyone on stage jump at the finale of the tune they had just executed. (literal meaning) The problem was that to everyone but Leif, this meant jumping and landing on the stage at the final stroke. To Leif (maybe because he's from Norway and they jump different there) he though it meant jumping and leaving the floor of the stage on the final stroke. The result was that it appeared that the combined weight of Leif’s band mates landing on the stage at the same time propelled Leif into the air. I was impressed.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Stage Presence???
The key word here being "stage," it's only fair to note that one's presence also depends on where said stage is: a smallish "coffeehouse"-type venue, or a large-ish festival?
It really does matter, of course. One prime example of this I like to cite is actually a non-Irish, non-traditional and non-MUSIC one: Steve Martin's "Comedy Is Not Pretty" album. About half of the record was taken from his performance in a nightclub, and there he's far more subtle and cerebral (well, relatively speaking -- if you're familiar with Steve Martin). The other half of the album was recorded at, I think, The Hollywood Bowl, in front of a big, whooping crowd. In that setting, Martin's practically shouting most of the time, because he has a much larger, more high-spirited audience, and while he's still funny, it's a far different kind of funny -- and not as satisfying, to my mind.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by sts
Re: Stage Presence???
A little rant from me:
I can't argue with the fact that the punters need to be entertained, and there are some really funny musicians out there - like Cunningham.
On the other hand one of the biggest gripes I have with our local music Festival here is that they bring in so many funny men. As if that meant they were great because they were entertaining. If I want comedy I will go to a comedy Festival. One of the main overseas headline acts was supposedly a great singer songwriter as well as a comedian and I left after 5 mins of pain. I have to say the audience were lapping it up which probably only made me even more p*ssed off. To me he sounded like a shopping centre spruiker, selling vacuum cleaners or vegetable slicers.
I know I'm the odd man out, here!
As for myself I am still painfully aware that I need to improve my stage presence, but I know I will never be as funny as the likes of Cunningham - so I am not aiming to be. Just do my best to communicate with the audience.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by Donough
Re: Stage Presence???
wow i didn't realise i'd get so many responses. I have to stress the quality of the music was excellent but a wee bit of acknowledgement and even some sign that they were happy to be there was all i meant especially from bands like Providence. Saw Doctors were great performers and you got exactly what it said on the tin but i wouldn't expect all the bands to be like that. The local band who got together for the festival "Concordance" were brilliant but i was refering mainly to established touring bands in terms of stage presence.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by johnny
Re: Stage Presence???
Donogh, I believe your point of view is everyone else's. Stage presence doesn't have and needn't be about being a comedian. It's rather acknowledging that you play for the people who paid for the tickets, and having a, as you said, communication with them. I also don't like 'overdone' gigs, where the musician forgets what he was supposed to do there in the first place. I thoroughly enjoy gigs where peformers just introduce themselves and then go on playing, but their behaviour shows that they see the audience is there and that they are not nauseated by the fact.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by Janek
Re: Stage Presence???
Stage presence - so much better than stage absence.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Stage Presence???
How did I manage to get 2 mentions on this thread? Just because I grumpily play jigs and reels purely for my own pleasure and ignore everyone else in the room. So what. Just don't speak to me or I'll bite your head off - I'm busy enjoying myself.
Yeah some people don't have stage presence, but you should give them a bit of slack. It's a bloody hard thing to do, getting up and playing in front of an audience. You can rehearse your tunes and patter and jokes in your head and imagine yourself able to do it, and then crumble when the time comes and you have to perform. That's why I don't do public performances and stick to sessions. They're so much easier because you can just enjoy the tunes and ignore everyone else
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Stage Presence???
Now of course people like Jack would thrive in a concert atmosphere because he gets to practice his stage skills at every session.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Stage Presence???
"... I'll bite your head off"
Dow, it sounds like you went to the Ozzie Ozbourne School of Stage Presence. I understand that smashing one's instrument is also a real crowd pleaser and part of the course.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by Agnes Nutter
Re: Stage Presence???
I find it excrutiatingly painful having seen the same musicians twice or three times on the same tour churn out the same patter word for word in exactly the same spot in the evening. The jokes are no longer funny and even the music becomes predictable. Sad, sad, sad.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by Patkiwi
Re: Stage Presence???
This is the problem. It's even worse when they repeat them *every* tour. John McCusker is really bad for this. A great musician but a really corny teller of jokes.
You have to be really clever, original, and freash to get away with this sort of things. Best to keep it simple, otherwise.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: Stage Presence???
Patkiwi and John J have uncovered the dark side of stage patter, when it is not natural and spontaneous, but mapped out too tightly in advance. Or like baglady said, when it is stage presentation rather than stage presence. Conversation between numbers is best when it is unforced and flows naturally, as if the conversation was personal. And since personal conversations don't normally involve one person speaking to hundreds, it is not easily pulled off!
And don't forget that the playing itself, and how you interact with the audience when you are bowing, squeezing, blowing, strumming, etc--that is the gist of it!
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Stage Presence???
"I understand that smashing one's instrument is also a real crowd pleaser" - Hmm - we must tell Mr Bliss.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Stage Presence???
Patkiwi - you didn't think it was all spontaneous did you? Try watching any performance night after night. Stand up comedy with its adlibs is all rehearsed down to the last little comma.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Stage Presence???
Yes, at small comedy clubs round the nation. We went to one while we were in NYC; two of the acts were pretty painful, but the rest were pretty good -- the last one was of course the most experienced, and made everything seem the most spontaneous.
Again -- stage presence has nothing to do with acknowledging your audience, but stage presentation, the show itself, does. you can have gobs of stage presence and still be a lousy performer.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Stage Presence???
"Stand up comedy with its adlibs is all rehearsed down to the last little comma."
Yeah, people who tell jokes have to do it that way. Funny people don't.
KFG
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by KFG
Re: Stage Presence???
True. It's amazing how many funny people can't do standup.
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Stage Presence???
Dying is easy, comedy is hard.
KFG
# Posted on August 9th 2005 by KFG
Re: Stage Presence???
No me digas tonterias, por favor. These categories are not mutually exclusive. for example the aforementioned Lunasa frontman and flute genius Kevin Crawford quite obvious has his stage patter off to a tee -- but it's still funny -- and by all accounts he is a very funny guy in "real life".
I sometimes wonder if some people on this site just dream up theories that they think *might* be right in order to have to say something, because otherwise they won't have anything concrete to pontificate on.
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: Stage Presence???
The worst band I ever saw for stage presence between songs was Kate and Anna McGarrigle et al. They are sublime when performing but were an absolute shambles between songs. I saw them several times and between 1976 band 1998 and they were just as bad the last time as the first. It didn't really matter though as the musice was so wonderful.
One of the best was Robin Williamson. Just him, his harp and a load of songs , tunes and stories.
I agree with BB about the Saw Doctors. I played at the Trowbridge Festival a couple of weeks ago and they were on after us and were pretty average. They managed to drive a lot out the main tent pretty quickly ...although not as quickly as Jah Wobble a couple of years ago. He really was cr@p beyond belief.
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: Stage Presence???
Wot about the Incredible (teflon) String Vest Band? I heard they were patchy. Yet resistant to stains....
...yeah, you're right Geoff, I am getting pished.
"BOIIINNGG!!!"
said Zebedee...
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: Stage Presence???
I never saw Robin Williamson with that line up. I did see him with his Merry Band in Bath in1978 and again it was one of the best gigs I ever heard. Four great musicians.
"Time for bed" said Florence.
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: Stage Presence???
Ah, Robin Williamson. Now that there's a feller what can hold yer attention. I've got a video of him in solo concert (Vestapol Videos) that is forking brilliant.
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Stage Presence???
Pingu, I love the idea/image of sliding a piece of concrete under me when I want to pontificate on some subject.
Anyway what I was going to say was that singers have it easier IMHO as they are sort of talking to the audience when they sing and the words hold the attention of those that are less musical in the audience. By comparison it is harder to engage an audience completely with only tunes. It is therefore all the more important to have something to say about the tune beforehand even if it isn't funny to give the punter something to think about whilst listening to the tunes.
Something to do with right brain/left brain.
Now let me slide off that shlab of concrete
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Donough
Re: Stage Presence???
I think it's sad that people have to be told what to think. It's sad that they lack the imagination to enjoy music unless it has words you can sing along to. Why do they have to be given something to think about so they can get through a set of tunes without losing their concentration? Why can't they enjoy the music for the lovely, abstract, indescribable thing that it is? I could never waste my time on people like that. They should bloody well be made to stay at home in front of the telly while I go out and have a good time.
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Stage Presence???
Pingu: "for example the aforementioned Lunasa frontman and flute genius Kevin Crawford quite obvious has his stage patter off to a tee -- but it's still funny -- and by all accounts he is a very funny guy in "real life".
You mean he's not your best mate?!
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Stage Presence???
No, silly, he's mine!
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Donough
Re: Stage Presence???
Dow, for some silly reason, once in a while people actually pay to hear me (usually with others) play music. Maybe it's out of a sense of misplaced guilt or something I feel I have to repay them by providing some form of entertainment. This is why I too, prefer playing in sessions where I can be totally oblivious of any punters and just enjoy the music for it's own sake.
Even free beer at a session makes me feel edgy that I have to "put up" a product. Mavbe I just need some therapy and I will be cured of this affliction.
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Donough
Re: Stage Presence???
Kevin Crawford was funny when I encountered him but I never really know if I am in "Real Life" or not. Should I look around for signs saying "REAL"??
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Donough
Re: Stage Presence???
Aha! three postings and you haven't come back once. I must have caught your (Dow) disease
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Donough
Re: Stage Presence???
Mad Dow Disease ...
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Stage Presence???
Dow - Best mate? you must be joking - he's not famous enough for me. Remember, I knocked back madonna for a ride. And britney. None of them are good enough for me. Only myself is good enough for me. At least I guess that's what you're implying with your peurile bellicose tirades, so to save you the bother I've said it for you. Happy now? OK, can we swiftly move back to the topic being discussed?.....
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: Stage Presence???
My peurile (sic) bellicose tirades are no match for your melodramatic, pompous outbursts.
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Stage Presence???
woo-hooo!
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: Stage Presence???
Calm down! Calm down! (in Scouse accent)
You know you like each other really.
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: Stage Presence???
Well, he's good for a laugh, I suppose, being so easy to wind up, just like clockwork. Always amuses me.
# Posted on August 10th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: Stage Presence???
Yeah I'm sure you're right Geoff... it's just that Pingu does a really good job of *pretending* to hate my guts
# Posted on August 11th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Stage Presence???
You know, if the two of you ever behaved really decently to each other for longer than five lines of posting, I think you'd both die of the shock.
*smirk*
*yawn* It's 3:30 am. What the hell am I doing up? I'm going to bed!
# Posted on August 11th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Stage Presence???
Anyway the only way I can explain it to you is this. It's not Pingu's fault. It's that Jocks and Geordies are a bad mix from the outset. Jocks just can't take it that Geordies are a superior race of people. If you go over the border near Coldstream there's a pile of about 20 black binbags full of rubbish, and the rubbish never gets collected - it just gets moved from one side of the border to the other. One day the Geordie side will breathe a sigh of resignation and simply take away the rubbish and dispose of it properly at a tip, because basically we're cleaner people and we don't let our armpits get sweaty. Pingu's even worse than a standard Jock because he's half Cockney, like, talk about mix from hell...
# Posted on August 11th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Stage Presence???
You're incorrigible, Mark!
NOW I'm going to bed.
# Posted on August 11th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Stage Presence???
Well, it's only 11.35am here and all of a sudden I feel really sleepy ...*Yawn*... I wish there was a bed in my office....why are my eyes suddenly glazing over?
# Posted on August 11th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: Stage Presence???
Dunno, maybe because you can't think of anything remotely humorous to say as a comeback, so your own body just sends you to sleep instead.
# Posted on August 11th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Stage Presence???
...or couldn't be remotely bothered....
# Posted on August 11th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: Stage Presence???
Yeah, woohoo, that's the spirit
# Posted on August 11th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: Stage Presence???
Hmm I can see we're not going to discover the next George Burns here.
# Posted on August 11th 2005 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Stage Presence???
Taciturnity is virtuous at times.
# Posted on August 11th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: Stage Presence???
Is having a virtue the same as being virtuous? Oh wait, wrong thread.
# Posted on August 11th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Stage Presence???
All the best performers
a) can play well or at least are aware of their limitations
b) engage with the audience
c) look as if they are having fun!
d) don't have amps up too loud
# Posted on August 14th 2005 by flying tigerpig
Re: Stage Presence???
''disturbingly different''
T K Hughes, 2005
# Posted on August 19th 2005 by lisaniska