Just curious- after spending a week with Paul McGratten and others at the Catskills Irish Arts Week, I am contemplating changing the way in which I position my upper hand on the flute. Currently, I am holding the flute with my hand and fingers slightly arched over the flute. I have been playing in this manner for better than 15 years, so the prospect of changing raises some interesting issues. My reason for wanting to change is that I feel my upper hand ornientation will be sharper and more precise using the traditional low whistle/whistle fingering postions. My question to the flute players at the sesson is: how do I accomplish such a change gradually without causing undo tension while making the transition?
I'm assuming you're talking about the way you can use your middle finger joints to cover the holes, instead of the finger tips. I think this is called "piper hold".
Are you sure your ornamentation will be more precise using the piper hold? Keep in mind that (with no disrespect meant towards traditional flutists), each player does whatever comes naturally, and the hand position you're using may be the best one for you (if it wasn't at first, it very probably is now, after using it for 15 years!). So, your mileage may vary. For the record, i have no problem doing rolls, cuts and taps using the "classical" flute hold (the one you describe, with the arched fingers). The left hand is harder anyway no matter what hold, because it's not as strong (unless, of course, you're left handed). So it requires more practice for crisp cuts and rolls.
Another thing to consider, is that the piper hold doesn't work very well for using the keys in keyed flutes.
Well, making such a major transition in your grip on the flute, from the classical grip to the piper-style grip, won't be easy. But hey, you don't have to accomplish it overnight. I'd say practise the piper-style grip over two or three months, essentially phasing it in. Now, as to which grip is better? I don't know; there are plenty of great flute players of each variety. I use the piper-style grip only; can bearly play a note with the classical grip, which feels incredibly cramped. Thus the piper-style grip feels better to me because of the comfort level and because all the stuff i do on the whislte translates readily. So, i'd say give the piper-style grip a try and see what you think; you can always bag it later. (Now, as for me, i will *never* learn the classical grip because i'm lazy lazy lazy...) Good luck.
P.S. Unfortunately, there is one tangible down-side to not knowing the classical grip: if you have a fully keyed flute, you simply can't utilize all the keys properly.
I would strongly urge you not to change your hand position unless there is something seriously wrong with it. If there were any particular advantage in holding the flute the way Paul McGrattan does it would surely have been adopted as the orthodox method by now. I would suggest that Paul is a great player in spite of his unorthodox hold rather than because of it and I don't suppose he advised you to change. It is perfectly possible to perform all the ornamentation using the orthodox hold plus your hand is better positioned for using the keys. The head joint should be resting on the fleshy bit at the base of your index finger but shold not rest on bottom joint of the finger as this will impede its mobility. I'm probably teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here! You don't say what kind of flute you have or what ornamentation you're having trouble with (if any).
Arbo,
I started playing the flute recently after many time playing whistle/low whistle. I tried to hold the flute the 'orthodox' way but I couldn't. I simply cannot get used to that grip and it's very hard to get the ornamentation with the upper hand.
I have to say that I haven't tried too hard, because I'm impatient, but I'm so used to the pipers hold that I cannot change now.
So at least for me is very difficult to change the grip after so many time, but as Brendan said, it's probably worth to have a go.
Another little disadvantage of the pipers hold is that you need to concentrate in keeping the flute steady, as there're less points of support to hold the flute. That's another thing I have to struggle with during my learning process.
"Matt Molloy" holds it the wrong way means nothing. If there are 2 ways to hold a flute, each half of the players can accuse the other half of holding it the wrong way.
There's no wrong way. There are 2 main traditions that developed over time, and a few deviations in both traditions. The "classical" way was developed over time by people who play keyed instruments. The "piper" way was developed over time by people who don't bother with the keys. After you learn one way, it's hard to see the merits of the other. I tried, and can't see why people would use the "piper" way, but there are a lot of great players using it, and they keep saying it's very comfortable, so it must be.
Ignorant fiddler with a story, so take it for what it's worth: Shannon Heaton has changed her hold at least twice since I've known her. She told me not too long ago that she plays like absolute sh*te for a couple of weeks when she first switches over, but that it's always worth the try. She said that the hardest thing is to relax while you're doing it, not the least because you're not used to sounding that bad, but that you simply have to concentrate extra hard on relaxation and fluidity and bull your way through the frustration. Dunno if that helps, but I thought I'd mention it.
Zina,
So which grip has Shannon settled on? I've seen/met her at sessions, but I can't remember what grip she was using. (I was likely paying to much attention to how darn good she sounds...)
Brendan
Thank you everyone for the imput. To answer an couple of quiries, Paul McGratten suggested I stick with the
classical hold which I currently use- the particular ornimentation that I have an issue with is the B roll. I sometimes feels that the 'tap' of my G finger on the A roll is not as strong as it should be, therfore getting lost. I am playing two flutes, alternating between them as the fancy strikes me- this is somewhat problematic as the flutes have different embrochure holes, and it always takes me some time to adjust to this difference. The flutes are an older 3-keyed Sam Murray (I think I have had it for 8 years), and a 6-keyed Gilles LeHart,
which I have had for about two years now. By the way, the tip on hand position and access to the keys was very helpful. I am still thinking of changing over with the hopes of using both hand postions and letting the tune sets determine which position I use. I guess my original question referred more to the actual task of gradually working in this new style.
Geez, Brendan, don't go asking a fiddler what a fluter is doing! (Unless it's a multi-instrumentalist type who knows what they're talking about, I guess!) All I can remember is that she was talking about curving her fingers more over the top of the flute, but I can't remember if that was what she was changing to or from! Sorry to be so useless.
You could always just write her or stop her at a session and ask. Tell her I say hi, if you do, and that it sounds like I'll see her in Lincoln in October. Ta very much if you do!
I thought i might mention here about the A and B rolls: they're hard, no matter what kind of flute hold you use. I assume they're easier to do if the hand you use for the top of the flute (usually left hand) is your stronger hand, but the majority of the population is right-handed, and uses the left hand as the top hand.
The easiest roll to do is G, because you use both hands.
I had a lot of trouble learning to play rolls properly, and i can still use a lot of improvement, but when i was starting, Conal O'Grada (http://www.scoiltrad.com) suggested that i should do 10 minutes of rolls every day. This worked like a charm to me; in about a month i was a lot better.
There are 2 ways to practice. You can do a series of rolls on the same note (for example: a series of A rolls). Try doing them very slow at first (the notes are slow, but the cut and tap should be just as crisp as if you were playing fast). Then try increasing the speed a little. That's the exercise that Conal recommended to me.
Another nice exercise is to do "scales": D-crann (or skip), then E-roll, F-roll, G-roll, A-roll and B-roll. Then the same thing going down. Start by practicing very slow.
Practice, practice every day, at least 10 minutes of rolls every day. In a few weeks you should see a nice big improvement.
About keys: you don't really need them for playing traditional Irish flute music, but i've been seeing more and more flutists from Ireland using a highly chromatic style with a lot of keys. I don't know if this will catch or not, but i'm keeping my options open and buying a keyed flute.
Sarcasm alert!
Gosh, its amazing how many fiddle players are flute experts too -not to mention the pundits
who have been playing the flute for all of five minutes. I wonder if Matt Molloy knows he's holding the flute wrong. Perhaps Michael would like to offer Matt a few lessons.
Sarcasm alert!
Gosh, its amazing how many fiddle players are flute experts too -not to mention the pundits
who have been playing the flute for all of five minutes. I wonder if Matt Molloy knows he's holding the flute wrong. Perhaps Michael would like to offer Matt a few lessons.
Sarcasm alert!
Gosh, its amazing how many fiddle players are flute experts too -not to mention the pundits
who have been playing the flute for all of five minutes. I wonder if Matt Molloy knows he's holding the flute wrong. Perhaps Michael would like to offer Matt a few lessons.
Sarcasm alert!
Gosh, its amazing how many fiddle players are flute experts too -not to mention the pundits
who have been playing the flute for all of five minutes. I wonder if Matt Molloy knows he's holding the flute wrong. Perhaps Michael would like to offer Matt a few lessons.
Serious suggestions:
Arbo,
Glauber's suggestions about practising rolls are good. Here's some more:
Pay attention to your tone during the rolls. The tone of the rolled note should be as good as the tone of the unornamented note. If your tone is not that good it will tend to break up when ornamentation is introduced so tone practice will also improve the sound of your ornamentation.
As well as practising the rolls on their own try note/ roll combinations as they would occur in tunes e.g. D' followed by short B roll, E - B roll etc. Play slowly but still aiming for a crisp sound. When you play these note/roll combinations in a tune pay attention to which combinations of note/roll give trouble and work on these separately. (B - A roll can is tricky)
I have found that one problem with the B roll can be because the index finger is not clearing the hole sufficiently when executing the cut at the start of roll. This may be because the the flute is being gripped too hard or because the flute is resting on the lower joint of the index finger. Problems with the tap at the end of the roll require loads of practise to get a crisp sound. The taps with second and third fingers can be practised on their own. The tap can, of course be used as an ornament in its own right to separate two occurrences of the same note (instead of tonguing or cutting). This is particularly common with Northern players such as Fintan Vallely and Desi Wilkinson.
Hope this is of help. Good luck.
Chris
Sarcasm alert!
Gosh, its amazing how many fiddle players are flute experts too -not to mention the pundits
who have been playing the flute for all of five minutes. I wonder if Matt Molloy knows he's holding the flute wrong. Perhaps Michael would like to offer Matt a few lessons.
I think the Matt Molloy thing was an attempt at sarcasm too.
Careful with the "reload" button on your browser after you post something. If you reload right after posting, it will actually post again. I told Jeremy of this problem a while ago.
But let's keep this forum friendly and useful, please.
Quite right Glauber. The crack about lessons for Matt Molloy was meant in fun and not meant as a dig at Michael whose postings I very often find myself agreeing with so he must be a sensible bloke!
Glauber,
Your comments on whether keys are really necessary are worthy of a whole new thread. Plus I'm not quite sure what you mean by chromatic style unless you mean Niall Keegan.. Lots of scope for interesting discussion here.
No kidding! This is a topic that always creates a lot of discussion.
In the end i think it boils down to personal style, but i think one can play the traditional Irish flute repertory well without keys; for a beginner, the keys could be more a distraction than help.
As for chromaticism, it might be Niall Keegan; i had forgotten the name. I was thinking of Michael McGoldrick too. I've heard more than once recordings from young players, especially people coming from Irish universities, that are expanding the way Irish flute is played, virtuosistically. Even Matt Molloy in his more recent albums has been playing in a style that "borrows" a little from classical and jazz flute players. I don't mean to say that any of this is good or bad (except for the fact that, heck, it would take me at least 30 years to be able to play like that!), just that the flute playing tradition is alive and it evolves. Right now, you can do well without the keys, but in 5 or 10 years, who knows?
I think it's a shame that mat molloy does all that chromatic stuff. I've never been a fan of that fancy hornpipe thing. I blame it all on that James Galway geezer. Once Mat started to idolise him, it all went downhill.
Give me Hethery breeze any day. Still one of the best albums ever.
Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Just curious- after spending a week with Paul McGratten and others at the Catskills Irish Arts Week, I am contemplating changing the way in which I position my upper hand on the flute. Currently, I am holding the flute with my hand and fingers slightly arched over the flute. I have been playing in this manner for better than 15 years, so the prospect of changing raises some interesting issues. My reason for wanting to change is that I feel my upper hand ornientation will be sharper and more precise using the traditional low whistle/whistle fingering postions. My question to the flute players at the sesson is: how do I accomplish such a change gradually without causing undo tension while making the transition?
Arbo
# Posted on July 23rd 2002 by Imnotirish
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Hello, Arbo,
I'm assuming you're talking about the way you can use your middle finger joints to cover the holes, instead of the finger tips. I think this is called "piper hold".
Are you sure your ornamentation will be more precise using the piper hold? Keep in mind that (with no disrespect meant towards traditional flutists), each player does whatever comes naturally, and the hand position you're using may be the best one for you (if it wasn't at first, it very probably is now, after using it for 15 years!). So, your mileage may vary. For the record, i have no problem doing rolls, cuts and taps using the "classical" flute hold (the one you describe, with the arched fingers). The left hand is harder anyway no matter what hold, because it's not as strong (unless, of course, you're left handed). So it requires more practice for crisp cuts and rolls.
Another thing to consider, is that the piper hold doesn't work very well for using the keys in keyed flutes.
g
# Posted on July 23rd 2002 by glauber
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Well, making such a major transition in your grip on the flute, from the classical grip to the piper-style grip, won't be easy. But hey, you don't have to accomplish it overnight. I'd say practise the piper-style grip over two or three months, essentially phasing it in. Now, as to which grip is better? I don't know; there are plenty of great flute players of each variety. I use the piper-style grip only; can bearly play a note with the classical grip, which feels incredibly cramped. Thus the piper-style grip feels better to me because of the comfort level and because all the stuff i do on the whislte translates readily. So, i'd say give the piper-style grip a try and see what you think; you can always bag it later. (Now, as for me, i will *never* learn the classical grip because i'm lazy lazy lazy...) Good luck.
P.S. Unfortunately, there is one tangible down-side to not knowing the classical grip: if you have a fully keyed flute, you simply can't utilize all the keys properly.
# Posted on July 23rd 2002 by Brendan
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Lazy is good. Whatever works well and with the least amount of pain is good.
# Posted on July 23rd 2002 by glauber
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
I would strongly urge you not to change your hand position unless there is something seriously wrong with it. If there were any particular advantage in holding the flute the way Paul McGrattan does it would surely have been adopted as the orthodox method by now. I would suggest that Paul is a great player in spite of his unorthodox hold rather than because of it and I don't suppose he advised you to change. It is perfectly possible to perform all the ornamentation using the orthodox hold plus your hand is better positioned for using the keys. The head joint should be resting on the fleshy bit at the base of your index finger but shold not rest on bottom joint of the finger as this will impede its mobility. I'm probably teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here! You don't say what kind of flute you have or what ornamentation you're having trouble with (if any).
# Posted on July 23rd 2002 by milesnagopaleen
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Arbo,
I started playing the flute recently after many time playing whistle/low whistle. I tried to hold the flute the 'orthodox' way but I couldn't. I simply cannot get used to that grip and it's very hard to get the ornamentation with the upper hand.
I have to say that I haven't tried too hard, because I'm impatient, but I'm so used to the pipers hold that I cannot change now.
So at least for me is very difficult to change the grip after so many time, but as Brendan said, it's probably worth to have a go.
Another little disadvantage of the pipers hold is that you need to concentrate in keeping the flute steady, as there're less points of support to hold the flute. That's another thing I have to struggle with during my learning process.
# Posted on July 23rd 2002 by Toni Ribas
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Matt Molloy holds it the wrong way, so there you go
# Posted on July 23rd 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
"Matt Molloy" holds it the wrong way means nothing. If there are 2 ways to hold a flute, each half of the players can accuse the other half of holding it the wrong way.
There's no wrong way. There are 2 main traditions that developed over time, and a few deviations in both traditions. The "classical" way was developed over time by people who play keyed instruments. The "piper" way was developed over time by people who don't bother with the keys. After you learn one way, it's hard to see the merits of the other. I tried, and can't see why people would use the "piper" way, but there are a lot of great players using it, and they keep saying it's very comfortable, so it must be.
# Posted on July 24th 2002 by glauber
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Blimey, I'm going to have to learn this brackets and colons stuff
()();::; or whatever
# Posted on July 24th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Ignorant fiddler with a story, so take it for what it's worth: Shannon Heaton has changed her hold at least twice since I've known her. She told me not too long ago that she plays like absolute sh*te for a couple of weeks when she first switches over, but that it's always worth the try. She said that the hardest thing is to relax while you're doing it, not the least because you're not used to sounding that bad, but that you simply have to concentrate extra hard on relaxation and fluidity and bull your way through the frustration. Dunno if that helps, but I thought I'd mention it.
Zina
# Posted on July 24th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Zina,
So which grip has Shannon settled on? I've seen/met her at sessions, but I can't remember what grip she was using. (I was likely paying to much attention to how darn good she sounds...)
Brendan
# Posted on July 24th 2002 by Brendan
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Thank you everyone for the imput. To answer an couple of quiries, Paul McGratten suggested I stick with the
classical hold which I currently use- the particular ornimentation that I have an issue with is the B roll. I sometimes feels that the 'tap' of my G finger on the A roll is not as strong as it should be, therfore getting lost. I am playing two flutes, alternating between them as the fancy strikes me- this is somewhat problematic as the flutes have different embrochure holes, and it always takes me some time to adjust to this difference. The flutes are an older 3-keyed Sam Murray (I think I have had it for 8 years), and a 6-keyed Gilles LeHart,
which I have had for about two years now. By the way, the tip on hand position and access to the keys was very helpful. I am still thinking of changing over with the hopes of using both hand postions and letting the tune sets determine which position I use. I guess my original question referred more to the actual task of gradually working in this new style.
Arbo
# Posted on July 24th 2002 by Imnotirish
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Geez, Brendan, don't go asking a fiddler what a fluter is doing! (Unless it's a multi-instrumentalist type who knows what they're talking about, I guess!) All I can remember is that she was talking about curving her fingers more over the top of the flute, but I can't remember if that was what she was changing to or from! Sorry to be so useless.
You could always just write her or stop her at a session and ask.
Tell her I say hi, if you do, and that it sounds like I'll see her in Lincoln in October. Ta very much if you do!
Zina
# Posted on July 24th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Just to let you all know how interesting this topic has been to me. In fact, I have an internal gripping debate. Thank you all for your comments
# Posted on July 24th 2002 by Rmcordoba
Rolls (flute)
I thought i might mention here about the A and B rolls: they're hard, no matter what kind of flute hold you use. I assume they're easier to do if the hand you use for the top of the flute (usually left hand) is your stronger hand, but the majority of the population is right-handed, and uses the left hand as the top hand.
The easiest roll to do is G, because you use both hands.
I had a lot of trouble learning to play rolls properly, and i can still use a lot of improvement, but when i was starting, Conal O'Grada (http://www.scoiltrad.com) suggested that i should do 10 minutes of rolls every day. This worked like a charm to me; in about a month i was a lot better.
There are 2 ways to practice. You can do a series of rolls on the same note (for example: a series of A rolls). Try doing them very slow at first (the notes are slow, but the cut and tap should be just as crisp as if you were playing fast). Then try increasing the speed a little. That's the exercise that Conal recommended to me.
Another nice exercise is to do "scales": D-crann (or skip), then E-roll, F-roll, G-roll, A-roll and B-roll. Then the same thing going down. Start by practicing very slow.
Practice, practice every day, at least 10 minutes of rolls every day. In a few weeks you should see a nice big improvement.
About keys: you don't really need them for playing traditional Irish flute music, but i've been seeing more and more flutists from Ireland using a highly chromatic style with a lot of keys. I don't know if this will catch or not, but i'm keeping my options open and buying a keyed flute.
g
# Posted on July 24th 2002 by glauber
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Sarcasm alert!
Gosh, its amazing how many fiddle players are flute experts too -not to mention the pundits
who have been playing the flute for all of five minutes. I wonder if Matt Molloy knows he's holding the flute wrong. Perhaps Michael would like to offer Matt a few lessons.
# Posted on July 24th 2002 by milesnagopaleen
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Sarcasm alert!
Gosh, its amazing how many fiddle players are flute experts too -not to mention the pundits
who have been playing the flute for all of five minutes. I wonder if Matt Molloy knows he's holding the flute wrong. Perhaps Michael would like to offer Matt a few lessons.
# Posted on July 24th 2002 by milesnagopaleen
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Sarcasm alert!
Gosh, its amazing how many fiddle players are flute experts too -not to mention the pundits
who have been playing the flute for all of five minutes. I wonder if Matt Molloy knows he's holding the flute wrong. Perhaps Michael would like to offer Matt a few lessons.
# Posted on July 25th 2002 by milesnagopaleen
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Sarcasm alert!
Gosh, its amazing how many fiddle players are flute experts too -not to mention the pundits
who have been playing the flute for all of five minutes. I wonder if Matt Molloy knows he's holding the flute wrong. Perhaps Michael would like to offer Matt a few lessons.
# Posted on July 25th 2002 by milesnagopaleen
Serious suggestions:
Arbo,
Glauber's suggestions about practising rolls are good. Here's some more:
Pay attention to your tone during the rolls. The tone of the rolled note should be as good as the tone of the unornamented note. If your tone is not that good it will tend to break up when ornamentation is introduced so tone practice will also improve the sound of your ornamentation.
As well as practising the rolls on their own try note/ roll combinations as they would occur in tunes e.g. D' followed by short B roll, E - B roll etc. Play slowly but still aiming for a crisp sound. When you play these note/roll combinations in a tune pay attention to which combinations of note/roll give trouble and work on these separately. (B - A roll can is tricky)
I have found that one problem with the B roll can be because the index finger is not clearing the hole sufficiently when executing the cut at the start of roll. This may be because the the flute is being gripped too hard or because the flute is resting on the lower joint of the index finger. Problems with the tap at the end of the roll require loads of practise to get a crisp sound. The taps with second and third fingers can be practised on their own. The tap can, of course be used as an ornament in its own right to separate two occurrences of the same note (instead of tonguing or cutting). This is particularly common with Northern players such as Fintan Vallely and Desi Wilkinson.
Hope this is of help. Good luck.
Chris
# Posted on July 25th 2002 by milesnagopaleen
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Sarcasm alert!
Gosh, its amazing how many fiddle players are flute experts too -not to mention the pundits
who have been playing the flute for all of five minutes. I wonder if Matt Molloy knows he's holding the flute wrong. Perhaps Michael would like to offer Matt a few lessons.
# Posted on July 25th 2002 by milesnagopaleen
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Sorry About Sarcasm ALERT
I only posted it once, HONEST!
# Posted on July 25th 2002 by milesnagopaleen
Sarcasm alert
I think the Matt Molloy thing was an attempt at sarcasm too.
Careful with the "reload" button on your browser after you post something. If you reload right after posting, it will actually post again. I told Jeremy of this problem a while ago.
But let's keep this forum friendly and useful, please.
# Posted on July 25th 2002 by glauber
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Quite right Glauber. The crack about lessons for Matt Molloy was meant in fun and not meant as a dig at Michael whose postings I very often find myself agreeing with so he must be a sensible bloke!
# Posted on July 25th 2002 by milesnagopaleen
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Glauber,
Your comments on whether keys are really necessary are worthy of a whole new thread. Plus I'm not quite sure what you mean by chromatic style unless you mean Niall Keegan.. Lots of scope for interesting discussion here.
# Posted on July 25th 2002 by milesnagopaleen
Keys
No kidding! This is a topic that always creates a lot of discussion.
In the end i think it boils down to personal style, but i think one can play the traditional Irish flute repertory well without keys; for a beginner, the keys could be more a distraction than help.
As for chromaticism, it might be Niall Keegan; i had forgotten the name. I was thinking of Michael McGoldrick too. I've heard more than once recordings from young players, especially people coming from Irish universities, that are expanding the way Irish flute is played, virtuosistically. Even Matt Molloy in his more recent albums has been playing in a style that "borrows" a little from classical and jazz flute players. I don't mean to say that any of this is good or bad (except for the fact that, heck, it would take me at least 30 years to be able to play like that!), just that the flute playing tradition is alive and it evolves. Right now, you can do well without the keys, but in 5 or 10 years, who knows?
# Posted on July 25th 2002 by glauber
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
I think it's a shame that mat molloy does all that chromatic stuff. I've never been a fan of that fancy hornpipe thing. I blame it all on that James Galway geezer. Once Mat started to idolise him, it all went downhill.
Give me Hethery breeze any day. Still one of the best albums ever.
Bothy Band? Chieftens? come on now
# Posted on July 25th 2002 by llig leahcim
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
I thought it all started when he began holding the flute the wrong way.
# Posted on July 26th 2002 by glauber
Re: Chromatic stuff
Glauber or Michael,
Keys, chromatic stuff fancy hornpipe thing?? what's it all about?
Start a new discussion and put us out of our misery!
# Posted on July 26th 2002 by milesnagopaleen
Re: Flute and Upper Hand Positions
Arbo,
I hope you will keep us posted on how you get on regardless of whether or not you change your hand position.
# Posted on July 26th 2002 by milesnagopaleen