I found this quote in Jobst Brandt's book, "The Bicycle Wheel," and thought I'd pass it around, since it seems to fit into one of the recurring discussions here:
"Cyclists who choose to build wheels often want something more than the ordinary, but just building conventionally is not a trivial task if a durable wheel is the goal. It may be disappointing to discover that "it's all been done before" and that conventional wheels are a result of a hundred years of refinement. The true contribution for the new wheel builder is to build conventional wheels exceptionally well."
So you see, we're not the only ones who have this conversation.
In my other moments I occasionally look at other web forums. Among recent ones are ones on birdwatching, one where people make their own versions of a popular comic strip, one collecting offensive jokes about religions.
And they all have the same conversation too. They all have their guys who are asking the right way to to it, the guys who are telling the right way to do it. They all have a Dow and a Michael and a Jack and a Zina - even a Showaddydaddy, though under different names like Woodpecker, Charlie Brown, and Pope-on-a-rope. On a site which discusses some of the deeper issues of Christianity I was simultaneously pronounced to be the most offensive person the world has ever seen (sort of Antichrists evil twin), and also one of the wisest, kindest and most perceptive people the world has ever seen - all from the one remark.
What's the common link ? They're all done by people.
Many years ago when I occasionally built my own racing wheels I'd adjust the spoke tension by listening to the tone when plucked. If they played a crude sort of tune then I knew things weren't well. That was back in the days of 32 spokes front and 40 rear, so there was plenty of scope for a tune.
They get worn out just as if a tune is played too much it gets boring and annoying(Drowsy Maggie).
And if you put a needle in the tires in which this case is a bodhran :P then you destroy the tune.
I think in todays day in age, wheel/rim makers have pretty much got the construction of things down to a perfect science especially with the ubiquity and growing affordability of carbon fibre parts. I think whats happening now is that they are perfecting new structures to suit different kinds of conditions. For example, a more flexible rim for descending mountains at great speed, a rigid rim, either disk or parabolic, that optimize extremely high pressure tyres (120psi) and aeordynamics, for flat out time trials etc... So, maybe if tunes are like wheels, in modern terms, that's why we're seeing a lot of these uber-modern tunes; tunes that are composed (or re-composed) to, say, suit the audience and the occasion, rather than the tradition composition/construction that has existed for generations.
Or are some people going to come along with detailed analyses of the Tour de France, and point out that Lance Armstrongs wheels were turning at a faster rate than the other guys.
Does that make him a better cyclist? or is there a case for turning your wheels at different speeds for different journeys? Does it matter if everyone's wheels turn at the same speed?
When we twang our spokes, like Trevor, does it matter if all our spokes twang at the same pitch?
Then of course we need the discussions about who is the best living wheelmaker, what is the best wheel ever made, etc.
they're not really wheels, but rather an old set of tubulars that you have never put on; that have hung in the garage for so long that the rubber has started to check, You glue them on and go for a ride and hear that 700x24 tire singing against the pavement. Just sigining. And you remember that you like using tubulars again. And that why you like the tunes, they just sing.
And then there are the retrogrouchs, with their adoration of steel frames (a 150-year bicycle material), leather saddles, classic spoked wheels, wool clothing, etc. vs. the technocrats, with their carbon-fiber frames (which can collapse catastrophically), tiny little tires (very bumpy ride), extreme light weight, split plastic saddles, and garish nylon clothing. (Perhaps you can guess what style I ride.)
The split between classicists and technocrats is a paradigm common to many areas of endeavor: sailing, bicycling, folk music, musical intruments, tools, automobiles, etc. But each has its costs and benefits. I adore wooden boats, for instance, but keeping them up is no minor task, nor cheap. However, most modern plastic boats have no soul, and are designed by people using computers in air-conditioned offices far from the ocean.
I prefer to stake a position somewhere in the middle, where homage to tradition is not blind to innovation, and where innovation respects the grandeur and innovation of the past. Or something like that...
How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
I found this quote in Jobst Brandt's book, "The Bicycle Wheel," and thought I'd pass it around, since it seems to fit into one of the recurring discussions here:
"Cyclists who choose to build wheels often want something more than the ordinary, but just building conventionally is not a trivial task if a durable wheel is the goal. It may be disappointing to discover that "it's all been done before" and that conventional wheels are a result of a hundred years of refinement. The true contribution for the new wheel builder is to build conventional wheels exceptionally well."
So you see, we're not the only ones who have this conversation.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
I think this is adequately covered in The Third Policeman.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by kris
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
Because they can become too tired.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
In my other moments I occasionally look at other web forums. Among recent ones are ones on birdwatching, one where people make their own versions of a popular comic strip, one collecting offensive jokes about religions.
And they all have the same conversation too. They all have their guys who are asking the right way to to it, the guys who are telling the right way to do it. They all have a Dow and a Michael and a Jack and a Zina - even a Showaddydaddy, though under different names like Woodpecker, Charlie Brown, and Pope-on-a-rope. On a site which discusses some of the deeper issues of Christianity I was simultaneously pronounced to be the most offensive person the world has ever seen (sort of Antichrists evil twin), and also one of the wisest, kindest and most perceptive people the world has ever seen - all from the one remark.
What's the common link ? They're all done by people.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
They go round and round at great speed, the effort of all this causes you to perspire and they sometimes go flat. And someone spoke all the time.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by Nick Splease
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
What's the common link? We're all computer geeks
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
Many years ago when I occasionally built my own racing wheels I'd adjust the spoke tension by listening to the tone when plucked. If they played a crude sort of tune then I knew things weren't well. That was back in the days of 32 spokes front and 40 rear, so there was plenty of scope for a tune.
Trevor
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by lazyhound
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
They get worn out just as if a tune is played too much it gets boring and annoying(Drowsy Maggie).
And if you put a needle in the tires in which this case is a bodhran :P then you destroy the tune.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by ecidralla
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
Dammit Michael, I thought we were nerds.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
I think in todays day in age, wheel/rim makers have pretty much got the construction of things down to a perfect science especially with the ubiquity and growing affordability of carbon fibre parts. I think whats happening now is that they are perfecting new structures to suit different kinds of conditions. For example, a more flexible rim for descending mountains at great speed, a rigid rim, either disk or parabolic, that optimize extremely high pressure tyres (120psi) and aeordynamics, for flat out time trials etc... So, maybe if tunes are like wheels, in modern terms, that's why we're seeing a lot of these uber-modern tunes; tunes that are composed (or re-composed) to, say, suit the audience and the occasion, rather than the tradition composition/construction that has existed for generations.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by tulloch
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
We're not reinventing the wheel here, just making modifications to suit specific specializations.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by tulloch
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
How fast should the wheel turn?
Should we have a standard figure in rpm?
Or are some people going to come along with detailed analyses of the Tour de France, and point out that Lance Armstrongs wheels were turning at a faster rate than the other guys.
Does that make him a better cyclist? or is there a case for turning your wheels at different speeds for different journeys? Does it matter if everyone's wheels turn at the same speed?
When we twang our spokes, like Trevor, does it matter if all our spokes twang at the same pitch?
Then of course we need the discussions about who is the best living wheelmaker, what is the best wheel ever made, etc.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
So it's the questions surrounding wheels that are the same as those surrounding tunes?
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by tulloch
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
they're not really wheels, but rather an old set of tubulars that you have never put on; that have hung in the garage for so long that the rubber has started to check, You glue them on and go for a ride and hear that 700x24 tire singing against the pavement. Just sigining. And you remember that you like using tubulars again. And that why you like the tunes, they just sing.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by I_Fel
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
And yes, the last set of TAN Vittoria Pave-mine...all mine...
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by I_Fel
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
Trevor, you've GOT to see the Triplets of Belleville.
http://www.lestriplettesdebelleville.com/
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
(Gosh, that's a WICKED website - did you see it, stefan?)
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
Travor, click on "voir le site", then click on "jouez avec madame Souza" (the little red dangly castinet looking things)
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
And then there are the retrogrouchs, with their adoration of steel frames (a 150-year bicycle material), leather saddles, classic spoked wheels, wool clothing, etc. vs. the technocrats, with their carbon-fiber frames (which can collapse catastrophically), tiny little tires (very bumpy ride), extreme light weight, split plastic saddles, and garish nylon clothing. (Perhaps you can guess what style I ride.)
The split between classicists and technocrats is a paradigm common to many areas of endeavor: sailing, bicycling, folk music, musical intruments, tools, automobiles, etc. But each has its costs and benefits. I adore wooden boats, for instance, but keeping them up is no minor task, nor cheap. However, most modern plastic boats have no soul, and are designed by people using computers in air-conditioned offices far from the ocean.
I prefer to stake a position somewhere in the middle, where homage to tradition is not blind to innovation, and where innovation respects the grandeur and innovation of the past. Or something like that...
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by Audeamus
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
Les Triplettes: Très cool! I love that movie. Left me with a case of Django envy and a strange sense of longing for my tricycle.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
lol, bob. I love it too. I want to buy it. I can't get enough of it. I could watch it again and again and again.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Bicycling on every Wednesday evening
Triplets of Belville is a beautiful, crazy, wonderful film. Seen it twice. But trad's even better than the wheel thing.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by Q
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
They're not very good underwater and totally useless in a vacuum.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by Gael Force
Re: How are tunes like bicycle wheels?
"Many years ago when I occasionally built my own racing wheels I'd adjust the spoke tension by listening to the tone when plucked."
They make spoke tuners now.
KFG
# Posted on July 27th 2005 by KFG