Since we're debating so much lately how many fairies can dance on the end of a bridge pin, I thought I'd float this silly thought:
After attending a week-long Celtic music and dance camp, I came to the realization that I'm a hobbyist musician. That sort of bothered me a little at first--I used to work as a professional, and I grew quickly tired of the traveling and the rigors of road life. (It's quite unglamourous.)--and I guess I think of hobbyists as somehow less than serious. However, although I like to think of myself as fulfilling a serious creative need to express myself musically, the reality is that I"m a hobbyist. It's what I do in my spare time. I do it for fun, for the love of it. I'm an amateur, in the old sense of the word..
The business of such camps is oriented largely, but not solely, towards hobbyist musicians. These are people who do something completely different in real life usually, and they spend their vacation time on music camp, and their disposable income on CDs, instruments, lessons, etc. There's nothing wrong with that, of course. Professional musicians have always made part of their living from teaching, and it is a noble profession. And recordings form part of their income as well. Luthiers often make their most ornate instruments for well-paid amateurs, not professionals, who make their income in areas other than music.
Then there's that whole professional ITM musican thing. I used to think that one had to give up a life of security and comfort (all relative, of course) in order to excel on an instrument and the choice of music, ITM included. But then I met several excellent players/teachers at the camp who are like me, worker bees who spend their free time perfecting their art. That sort of made me feel better.
I don't play ITM sessions for the money, the rock 'n roll lifestyle, or the free beer--I play because it enriches my life, scratches my creative itch, and because good craic is wonderful but pretty rare, at least in the southern U.S. It's a bit of an ego thing on occasion, to be honest, but the nicest people I know are musicians, singers, composers, and/or dancers.
So, hobby? Calling? Profession? Amateur? Professional? All of the above? What are the sacrifices you've made, and have they been worth it? Are you settled in your choices?
"how many fairies can dance on the end of a bridge pin"
42.
"I'm an amateur, in the old sense of the word."
Which is not at all the same thing as a hobbiest. In the old sense of the word it was the professional that was denigrated.
"What are the sacrifices you've made. . .?"
I've never really understood this question. Oh, it's alright in and of itself, but it is almost universally posed from one particular viewpoint.
If you are a worker bee you are sacrificing the time of your life toward someone else's goals in exchange for money. I find that a rather extreme sacrifice.
I'm not at liberty to discuss in detail to what extent I rely on playing music to provide income, but I will tell you that even though I do make money with it, it seems more like a perpetual hobby. Right now I'm arranging sets of tunes that will work in the context of a contra dance we're playing for tonight, and it is work that will bring some duckies in at the end of the day, but I enjoy immensely the work I do in relation to playing music. So I'm not sure if I'd call myself a "professional" even though it would be technically accurate. The thing is; the world of ITM exists on the outer orbits of the music industry -- it hardly shows up on the radar. It's an entity unto itself for the most part. You can't really understand it if you look at it through the music industry's filter. Some people that play ITM are definitely "professional," but a vast majority can't really be pegged like that I think.
I think Jack is speaking metaphorically. The industry he refers to is the biz of music, and not just the record stores in the mall or the Border's down the street.
I get paid for gigs, some of them well, some not. But even many people whose names we'd immediately recognize barely get by, and some of them have spouses who provide health insurance, a steady income to pay the mortgage with, etc. I just found out last week that one of the world's best ITM accordion players is a banker(!). He went on the road in his youth, and it almost destroyed his health. But if I was indendently wealthy, or at least the house was paid off, I'd be spending a lot more time on music. I respect good musicians immensely, but the ones who leap over the cliff and try to make it their life's calling get my most respect.
It's probably like jazz music--it's really tough to make a living, and it's tough to play well on a part-time basis. I never seem to have enough time, and lately, energy, to really work on it. Unlike many hobbies, you really have to work on your skills and knowledge to be able to keep up with the sessioneers...
This is a good posting. I cannot agree more. And one of the things I love the most about this music is that you realloy can be top notch, and you it's still a mere pastime.
Ok, I am new here (Sort of got pulled into the session.org by some of you that I met over the last few weeks because of Irish Arts Week in the Catskills). Anyway its my general impression that most Trad Musicians, even rather famous ones, work for a living at something besides music. Making a relatively decent living probably involves playing 200 or more gigs a year. Not exactly a schedule that is condusive to having a normal life. So most who play in bands will do it for a year or two then will decide to opt out for a life that has time for things like friends and family. (And mind you the jobs they opt for may not be as grandiose as a Banker, I bet some are carpenters, auto mechanics, computer programmers, etc).
The way I look at it, whether you are doing it for pay or for free, there is really only one reason to do it and that is that you love doing it.
Hobbyist or professional, it also depends to a large extent on what stage of life you're in when you start with the music. The young ones who have ten years under their belt by the time they're 18 (the punks) have more forks in the road ahead of them, more opportunities to incorporate the music into their life paths, either going pro (for a while at least), teaching, pursuing a related degree, etc. If I'd known where to start 25 yrs. ago, I might have done the same, but I suspect that most 'amateurs' start later in life, particularly in uilleann piping, where the expense of the gear skews it towards the Dilbert class. For middle-aged dilettantes (if there's a positive sense of the word) such as myself, the music is a passion, a calling, an obsession or whatever, but tempered by other commitments. I suppose it is more difficult to play well consistently when you can only snatch a few hours a week, usually dog-tired and late at night (I'm not a morning person), but I'm pleased with any progress I can make. I've had more time since a job change four years ago gave me more regular hours, on the other hand I don't exercise as much as I used to in my spare time and my girth expandeth. Keeping wife and kiddies happy is not optional. Other than that, it's all about trade-offs.
It's a calling. I care too much to call it just a hobby. I once heard a well-known piper remark "I don't know sometimes whether I'm playing the pipes or if they're playing me". Both at once, probably. It feels that way to me, at least.
Passionate hobby for me, and one that nets me good times, creative outlet, friends, free beer, and some paid gigs. Before diving fully into ITM, I played classical flute for 15 years. Eventually I found that playing well and having a non-music job were pretty incompatible. One summer I had time to practice 4-5 hours/day, and then I felt like I was really making progress, not just treading water and inching forward, like the rest of the time when I could only put in an hour or two a day, after work. In contrast, one of the things I love about traditional music is that I can get home from work, kick back, play some tunes and work on some new ones for an hour a day and actually make progress. I find ITM to be a much more rewarding form of music for the amateur that classical music or jazz.
I've never had more than passing the hat or free beer from a session; barn dances/ceilidhs/whatyou will are paid, but even then I tell people that they get the music for free, it's the logistics of getting there/setting up/going home again they they pay for, the music is for pleasure. For both types of event I'd seriously have to sit down and drastically enlarge my repertoire if I felt I wanted to call myself a professional - as it is, it's a serious hobby but I plough money back in through going to festivals, buying cd's, etc.
Now I've got my SO involved and she's become a session junkie, learns tunes faster than me, wants one session a week or she's not happy ( acoustic or ITM, she doesn't mind ). But she won't "perform " in public, it has to be a session among friends, or at least like-minded people.
I do gigs just to get to play with TJ, and because I couldn't go to enough sessions, just can't get enough playing. Gigs show up, and so did our recording, nice events along the path, or tangential processes.
But I've been in "the music industry" as player, recordist, etc., for a long, long time. I have a deep dislike for the mainstream record biz, having been in the midst of it, and I'm glad to be in a part of it with nice folks, cameraderie and community and to completely disregard the industry.
At one point I said that I would work in the recording industry until I knew it well enough to make recordings I liked, and to record any sort of music I felt like, and then I'd go back to playing. It was quite a surprise when that time came, but a good one, and now I play. I still record when it's fun or for friends and it's more fun than ever now that I mainly play.
I just love playing and esp. in sessions, with great players.
I wrote: " I have a deep dislike for the mainstream record biz, having been in the midst of it, and I'm glad to be in a part of it with nice folks, cameraderie and community and to completely disregard the industry."
Not in a part of "it", but in - a world of music - with .... etc. Sorry!
It need not be seen as inferior to call it a hobby. Maybe this idea comes from the notion many people get from school/society/media etc that they have to excell at something. Yes- its satisfying to know you are good at something but its still OK to be OK at something and to enjoy the learning process and the social aspect of it, rather than have to get to the end of the road and to perfection ( impossible and subjective anyway.)
I play because I love it . I get creative satisfaction from it. I want to play and can chose when, where ( to some extent anyway) what and how much I play. I couldn't imagine being constrained by having to play for a living.
Thanks for asking this, HS, but I don't believe it's so easily answered by one or the other pigeonholes. Me personally, I've made some money at paid sessions and some gigs, but according to your criteria I must be a hobbyist. (Sorry, but I find the term "hobby" quite repulsive ever since I found out via a telly programme that "hobby" is what paedophiles call their young victims.)
It's just part of my profile. I hear tunes in my head all the time and I often feel the need to cathartically play them. If I get paid that's a bonus. But I also need to feed and house the fambly. And I'm nowhere near good enough to even think about doing it professionally. So I work at a semi-normal job for a living.
Oh God, I keep having this arguement with my parents. I love music (especially folk), art, drama and writing, and I want to them further and make a career (possibly only in the art and music area though), but my parents keep saying that all this 'arty-farty' stuff is 'interfering with my school work'. They still don't seem to get the point of school!!! It's a place where you find where you are talented, and then you work on thoses talents so you can make a career out of them. At least, that's how I see school. Who wants to do a job they hate just because there's a national shortage or something? I see music and art as a calling, and I get much more out of playing at a ceilidh or sketching than I ever do from getting a good grade in maths/science etc.
I still have the same argument with my folks, FlutieTootie. And I'm nearly 30!
"What do you mean, you're giving up your comfy, well-paid, low-stress, pensioned + medical insuranced job to go live like a pauper in Ireland?"
"Cos I wanna"
"..."
Thing is, Floots, they can't really say nuffin, cos I gone done got me an edjucashun, a trade, and work experience enough to serve me well enough in getting back into it later if I want.
Can't say nuffin, can they?
So stay in school you kids, and, er, don't suck all the juice out of tractors!
Hey, Matt, what the heck? You're posting? Go read your email ya mad ting.
Flutie, my grandmother once got her doctor to give me a lecture on how most of the drug addicts and prostitutes he has to treat are fallen artists and musicians, and how my attitude is a serious threat to my health.
Now she plays my recordings to all her friends and brags about me.
Don't bother arguing with your parents, they're scared that you will fail and be damaged. Try to have some sympathy and understanding for them (even if you don't feel you're getting any in return). Just keep doing what you're doing and eventually they'll get used to it.
As a footnote, I used to argue fiercely with my family and all it accomplished was to tie me in knots, which kept me from following through with my creative ideas. The more I raged and battled to keep out the anti-art message of my home town the more it gained ground in my subconscious and guided my behavior. I gained nothing by it and never once changed anyone's mind about anything. For that to happen I had to actually do what I said I was going to do. So I did, and I get nothing but support from them now.
Don't listen to Kerri, listen to me! Especially about the tractors.
Haven't been able to check mail in ages, Ms Brown - I'm working a freelance shift at the newspaper right now so I can get online to hang about here, but their putrid sheep of pit firewall doesn't like gmail, so I can't catch up on my epistology.
What's up, then? You can repost the mail here if you like.
You'd be surprised how many well known musicians have other jobs. Paddy Glackin works for RTE radio as their Political and Sports editor, which is a fairly busy job I'd suspect. Isn't Mike McGoldrick a doctor too? I wonder does he offer counselling to musicians who are addicted to thesession.org
Personally, I'm a composer/musician by profession, but I go to a lot of seisiúns for the love of it and most of the money I earn is not through ITM but other music styles. I really like making the odd few quid from ITM though because it is so enjoyable to play that to get paid for it really is a bonus. So I'd describe myself as a professional hobbyist, it is my profession and my hobby too!
I wish a person could just go out and play music on their own, like it was in the old days. None of this into-the-van nonsense. Launching CDs. What the hell does that mean? Irish music originally was solo music, following the lead of the old harpers, like baroque classical music, which was chamber oriented. People would sit around and listen to what someone played! How about that. Or dance to it.
The music industry - which I mean to include that crucial factor, record buyers - also imposes its own tastes on what gets put into stores. I've heard about various musicians wishing they could just put out some records with tunes on them, instead of Celtic Trad. Some of them have done so on their own labels - Jerry O'Sullivan for instance, The Gift (various lineups, genres, on Shanachie) was a much more broadly appealing record than O'Sullivan Meets O'Farrell (his own label, purely solo piping). Or James Kelly I think - isin't Melodic Journeys on his own imprint instead of a big company?
"So, hobby? Calling? Profession? Amateur? Professional? All of the above? What are the sacrifices you've made, and have they been worth it? Are you settled in your choices?"
High-strung's query here reminds me of a TV commercial that was on a while back that was about retirement investments. It featured a guy who had just retired comfortably (because of what the advert offered) and he took off his business suit and changed into attire that would suit a 50s and 60s period jazz musician. He then got out his saxophone and posed on a stool -- and really looked the part. At the very end of the ad he puts the sax to his lips and a horrible sound comes out. He says, “Now all I have to do is learn how to play this thing."
So this guy in the ad had sacrificed the time required to learn to play jazz working towards his retirement instead. This is the catch-22 of being a musician and having a career doing something else. It's an extreme example, but for me it spoke to this paradox. Some people have an inheritance, others manage to find enough time to become quite accomplished despite their careers, but most of us struggle to find time in between family and occupation to put in the required time.
People like myself who lack both an inheritance and talent have to make a hard choice between work and playing music. If I hadn't become obsessed with ITM I'd probably be a successful graphic designer with my own design firm. Instead I'm an eternal bohemian Irish musician eking out a living between freelance work as an artist and playing trad for fun and or profit. But at least I'll never find myself in the situation of the guy in the TV ad.
I didn't know that the term 'hobby' was so fraught with various meanings...
I'm not particularly comfortable with the term myself. It does present images of tying fishing flies or building bird houses, and playing music means so much more than that to most people. But the reality is that it costs money to live, and like James Michener wrote about writing, "You can make a killing, but you can't make a living." And that's true of virtually all the arts. If I were independently wealthy, I'd spend a lot more practicing and playing, for sure, but for now, it's a balance. And unlike the guy in the TV ad, although I'm not ready to retire, I can actually play my instruments, and do, even if not exactly at a master level.
> ..."You can make a killing, but you can't make a living."
Cue old joke about the musician who wins £1million the lottery. Asked what he's going to do, he replies "Guess I'll keep gigging till the money runs out".
Im not sure what you'd call what I'm doing, im only 17 so I have a lot of free time to play, even during the school year i maintain 3-4 hours a day and since i play alto sax and flute in the school band the band director lets me practice ITM during the school day, of course he also has me play at all school functions and at all the concerts but hey its exciting. I can't say i have the same dilema with my parents as others seem to. My parents greatly encourage my playing, my father wants me to learn another irish instrument so i can do more performances. I play at the local sessions and since my sister, brother in law and his brother all play different instruments we often play as a little band at some functions.
I know this is an old thread, but I'm new to the board and have just read it for the first time. So forgive me if this is old news.
When I was in college as a music major, I was on a road trip with one of our performing ensembles, and was sitting with another ensemble member. I finally asked her a qustion that had been nagging at me for 3 years. She was quite talented - she sang, played the flute in the marching band, played as part of our university handbell choir, and a few other things. She even took music theory classes as electives! So I asked her why she wasn't majoring, or even minoring, in music. Her response has stayed with me for the last 20 years: "I love music too much to do that. It would kill the joy." It took me a long time to figure that out, because I loved music too much to major in anything else. But finally I did. She didn't want the pressure of making a living from her love of music; she wanted to make a living to support her love of music. As far as I know, she's still very happy doing just that. Kudos to Julie, wherever she is now, and to any and all of you who do the same thing. Whether hobby or profession, if you have music in your soul, it's your calling, even if it's not your paycheck.
Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Since we're debating so much lately how many fairies can dance on the end of a bridge pin, I thought I'd float this silly thought:
After attending a week-long Celtic music and dance camp, I came to the realization that I'm a hobbyist musician. That sort of bothered me a little at first--I used to work as a professional, and I grew quickly tired of the traveling and the rigors of road life. (It's quite unglamourous.)--and I guess I think of hobbyists as somehow less than serious. However, although I like to think of myself as fulfilling a serious creative need to express myself musically, the reality is that I"m a hobbyist. It's what I do in my spare time. I do it for fun, for the love of it. I'm an amateur, in the old sense of the word..
The business of such camps is oriented largely, but not solely, towards hobbyist musicians. These are people who do something completely different in real life usually, and they spend their vacation time on music camp, and their disposable income on CDs, instruments, lessons, etc. There's nothing wrong with that, of course. Professional musicians have always made part of their living from teaching, and it is a noble profession. And recordings form part of their income as well. Luthiers often make their most ornate instruments for well-paid amateurs, not professionals, who make their income in areas other than music.
Then there's that whole professional ITM musican thing. I used to think that one had to give up a life of security and comfort (all relative, of course) in order to excel on an instrument and the choice of music, ITM included. But then I met several excellent players/teachers at the camp who are like me, worker bees who spend their free time perfecting their art. That sort of made me feel better.
I don't play ITM sessions for the money, the rock 'n roll lifestyle, or the free beer--I play because it enriches my life, scratches my creative itch, and because good craic is wonderful but pretty rare, at least in the southern U.S. It's a bit of an ego thing on occasion, to be honest, but the nicest people I know are musicians, singers, composers, and/or dancers.
So, hobby? Calling? Profession? Amateur? Professional? All of the above? What are the sacrifices you've made, and have they been worth it? Are you settled in your choices?
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by Audeamus
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
I'm just in it for the free beer myself.
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
I belatedly realized that this subject had been discussed in some detail back in March. I apologize for the redundancy.
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by Audeamus
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Hobby - Free Beer - Amateur - Calling
(in that order)
Pete
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by Reverend
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
"how many fairies can dance on the end of a bridge pin"
42.
"I'm an amateur, in the old sense of the word."
Which is not at all the same thing as a hobbiest. In the old sense of the word it was the professional that was denigrated.
"What are the sacrifices you've made. . .?"
I've never really understood this question. Oh, it's alright in and of itself, but it is almost universally posed from one particular viewpoint.
If you are a worker bee you are sacrificing the time of your life toward someone else's goals in exchange for money. I find that a rather extreme sacrifice.
KFG
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by KFG
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
I'm not at liberty to discuss in detail to what extent I rely on playing music to provide income, but I will tell you that even though I do make money with it, it seems more like a perpetual hobby. Right now I'm arranging sets of tunes that will work in the context of a contra dance we're playing for tonight, and it is work that will bring some duckies in at the end of the day, but I enjoy immensely the work I do in relation to playing music. So I'm not sure if I'd call myself a "professional" even though it would be technically accurate. The thing is; the world of ITM exists on the outer orbits of the music industry -- it hardly shows up on the radar. It's an entity unto itself for the most part. You can't really understand it if you look at it through the music industry's filter. Some people that play ITM are definitely "professional," but a vast majority can't really be pegged like that I think.
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
IRS after you again, Jack?
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Shhhhhhh
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
"the world of ITM exists on the outer orbits of the music industry"
One may exist as a full time professional musician without being in the orbit of the music "industry" at all.
The two don't really have much to do with each other at all and most people in the music industry can't even play an instrument.
KFG
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by KFG
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
So, I guess it's like the bumper sticker on a friend of mines car which says, "Real Musicians Have Day Jobs".
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by RogueFiddler
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
I think Jack is speaking metaphorically. The industry he refers to is the biz of music, and not just the record stores in the mall or the Border's down the street.
I get paid for gigs, some of them well, some not. But even many people whose names we'd immediately recognize barely get by, and some of them have spouses who provide health insurance, a steady income to pay the mortgage with, etc. I just found out last week that one of the world's best ITM accordion players is a banker(!). He went on the road in his youth, and it almost destroyed his health. But if I was indendently wealthy, or at least the house was paid off, I'd be spending a lot more time on music. I respect good musicians immensely, but the ones who leap over the cliff and try to make it their life's calling get my most respect.
It's probably like jazz music--it's really tough to make a living, and it's tough to play well on a part-time basis. I never seem to have enough time, and lately, energy, to really work on it. Unlike many hobbies, you really have to work on your skills and knowledge to be able to keep up with the sessioneers...
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by Audeamus
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
This is a good posting. I cannot agree more. And one of the things I love the most about this music is that you realloy can be top notch, and you it's still a mere pastime.
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Ok, I am new here (Sort of got pulled into the session.org by some of you that I met over the last few weeks because of Irish Arts Week in the Catskills). Anyway its my general impression that most Trad Musicians, even rather famous ones, work for a living at something besides music. Making a relatively decent living probably involves playing 200 or more gigs a year. Not exactly a schedule that is condusive to having a normal life. So most who play in bands will do it for a year or two then will decide to opt out for a life that has time for things like friends and family. (And mind you the jobs they opt for may not be as grandiose as a Banker, I bet some are carpenters, auto mechanics, computer programmers, etc).
The way I look at it, whether you are doing it for pay or for free, there is really only one reason to do it and that is that you love doing it.
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by bill_mchale
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Hobbyist or professional, it also depends to a large extent on what stage of life you're in when you start with the music. The young ones who have ten years under their belt by the time they're 18 (the punks) have more forks in the road ahead of them, more opportunities to incorporate the music into their life paths, either going pro (for a while at least), teaching, pursuing a related degree, etc. If I'd known where to start 25 yrs. ago, I might have done the same, but I suspect that most 'amateurs' start later in life, particularly in uilleann piping, where the expense of the gear skews it towards the Dilbert class. For middle-aged dilettantes (if there's a positive sense of the word) such as myself, the music is a passion, a calling, an obsession or whatever, but tempered by other commitments. I suppose it is more difficult to play well consistently when you can only snatch a few hours a week, usually dog-tired and late at night (I'm not a morning person), but I'm pleased with any progress I can make. I've had more time since a job change four years ago gave me more regular hours, on the other hand I don't exercise as much as I used to in my spare time and my girth expandeth. Keeping wife and kiddies happy is not optional. Other than that, it's all about trade-offs.
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by malanstevenson
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
It's a calling. I care too much to call it just a hobby. I once heard a well-known piper remark "I don't know sometimes whether I'm playing the pipes or if they're playing me". Both at once, probably. It feels that way to me, at least.
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by Hanley
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Passionate hobby for me, and one that nets me good times, creative outlet, friends, free beer, and some paid gigs. Before diving fully into ITM, I played classical flute for 15 years. Eventually I found that playing well and having a non-music job were pretty incompatible. One summer I had time to practice 4-5 hours/day, and then I felt like I was really making progress, not just treading water and inching forward, like the rest of the time when I could only put in an hour or two a day, after work. In contrast, one of the things I love about traditional music is that I can get home from work, kick back, play some tunes and work on some new ones for an hour a day and actually make progress. I find ITM to be a much more rewarding form of music for the amateur that classical music or jazz.
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by Tintin
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
I've never had more than passing the hat or free beer from a session; barn dances/ceilidhs/whatyou will are paid, but even then I tell people that they get the music for free, it's the logistics of getting there/setting up/going home again they they pay for, the music is for pleasure. For both types of event I'd seriously have to sit down and drastically enlarge my repertoire if I felt I wanted to call myself a professional - as it is, it's a serious hobby but I plough money back in through going to festivals, buying cd's, etc.
Now I've got my SO involved and she's become a session junkie, learns tunes faster than me, wants one session a week or she's not happy ( acoustic or ITM, she doesn't mind ). But she won't "perform " in public, it has to be a session among friends, or at least like-minded people.
# Posted on July 22nd 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
I had an SO who wouldn't "perform" in public.
No more 'water-dogging'....
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by Ottery
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Calling.
I do gigs just to get to play with TJ, and because I couldn't go to enough sessions, just can't get enough playing. Gigs show up, and so did our recording, nice events along the path, or tangential processes.
But I've been in "the music industry" as player, recordist, etc., for a long, long time. I have a deep dislike for the mainstream record biz, having been in the midst of it, and I'm glad to be in a part of it with nice folks, cameraderie and community and to completely disregard the industry.
At one point I said that I would work in the recording industry until I knew it well enough to make recordings I liked, and to record any sort of music I felt like, and then I'd go back to playing. It was quite a surprise when that time came, but a good one, and now I play. I still record when it's fun or for friends and it's more fun than ever now that I mainly play.
I just love playing and esp. in sessions, with great players.
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Woops...
I wrote: " I have a deep dislike for the mainstream record biz, having been in the midst of it, and I'm glad to be in a part of it with nice folks, cameraderie and community and to completely disregard the industry."
Not in a part of "it", but in - a world of music - with .... etc. Sorry!
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
It need not be seen as inferior to call it a hobby. Maybe this idea comes from the notion many people get from school/society/media etc that they have to excell at something. Yes- its satisfying to know you are good at something but its still OK to be OK at something and to enjoy the learning process and the social aspect of it, rather than have to get to the end of the road and to perfection ( impossible and subjective anyway.)
I play because I love it . I get creative satisfaction from it. I want to play and can chose when, where ( to some extent anyway) what and how much I play. I couldn't imagine being constrained by having to play for a living.
I'll get off me soap box now. Have fun!!!!
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by Caraaz
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Thanks for asking this, HS, but I don't believe it's so easily answered by one or the other pigeonholes. Me personally, I've made some money at paid sessions and some gigs, but according to your criteria I must be a hobbyist. (Sorry, but I find the term "hobby" quite repulsive ever since I found out via a telly programme that "hobby" is what paedophiles call their young victims.)
It's just part of my profile. I hear tunes in my head all the time and I often feel the need to cathartically play them. If I get paid that's a bonus. But I also need to feed and house the fambly. And I'm nowhere near good enough to even think about doing it professionally. So I work at a semi-normal job for a living.
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by danny flute whistle box
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Oh God, I keep having this arguement with my parents. I love music (especially folk), art, drama and writing, and I want to them further and make a career (possibly only in the art and music area though), but my parents keep saying that all this 'arty-farty' stuff is 'interfering with my school work'. They still don't seem to get the point of school!!! It's a place where you find where you are talented, and then you work on thoses talents so you can make a career out of them. At least, that's how I see school. Who wants to do a job they hate just because there's a national shortage or something? I see music and art as a calling, and I get much more out of playing at a ceilidh or sketching than I ever do from getting a good grade in maths/science etc.
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by Folkie Junkie
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
I still have the same argument with my folks, FlutieTootie. And I'm nearly 30!
"What do you mean, you're giving up your comfy, well-paid, low-stress, pensioned + medical insuranced job to go live like a pauper in Ireland?"
"Cos I wanna"
"..."
Thing is, Floots, they can't really say nuffin, cos I gone done got me an edjucashun, a trade, and work experience enough to serve me well enough in getting back into it later if I want.
Can't say nuffin, can they?
So stay in school you kids, and, er, don't suck all the juice out of tractors!
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by Q
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
If you were my child I would support this point of view:
"Who wants to do a job they hate just because there's a national shortage or something?"
But not this:
"It's a place where you find where you are talented, and then you work on thoses talents so you can make a career out of them."
KFG
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by KFG
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Hey, Matt, what the heck? You're posting? Go read your email ya mad ting.
Flutie, my grandmother once got her doctor to give me a lecture on how most of the drug addicts and prostitutes he has to treat are fallen artists and musicians, and how my attitude is a serious threat to my health.
Now she plays my recordings to all her friends and brags about me.
Don't bother arguing with your parents, they're scared that you will fail and be damaged. Try to have some sympathy and understanding for them (even if you don't feel you're getting any in return). Just keep doing what you're doing and eventually they'll get used to it.
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
As a footnote, I used to argue fiercely with my family and all it accomplished was to tie me in knots, which kept me from following through with my creative ideas. The more I raged and battled to keep out the anti-art message of my home town the more it gained ground in my subconscious and guided my behavior. I gained nothing by it and never once changed anyone's mind about anything. For that to happen I had to actually do what I said I was going to do. So I did, and I get nothing but support from them now.
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Don't listen to Kerri, listen to me! Especially about the tractors.
Haven't been able to check mail in ages, Ms Brown - I'm working a freelance shift at the newspaper right now so I can get online to hang about here, but their putrid sheep of pit firewall doesn't like gmail, so I can't catch up on my epistology.
What's up, then? You can repost the mail here if you like.
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by Q
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Great stuff, Kerri, all good. My experiences are very similar.
Good words, thanks!
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
You'd be surprised how many well known musicians have other jobs. Paddy Glackin works for RTE radio as their Political and Sports editor, which is a fairly busy job I'd suspect. Isn't Mike McGoldrick a doctor too? I wonder does he offer counselling to musicians who are addicted to thesession.org
Personally, I'm a composer/musician by profession, but I go to a lot of seisiúns for the love of it and most of the money I earn is not through ITM but other music styles. I really like making the odd few quid from ITM though because it is so enjoyable to play that to get paid for it really is a bonus. So I'd describe myself as a professional hobbyist, it is my profession and my hobby too!
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by fnarr
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
I heard Sean Smyth of Lunasa is a medical doctor as well...
And Shane Mitchell of Dervish I think had a surveying/engineering job before he switched from session player to full-time touring musician.
# Posted on July 23rd 2005 by DADGADLad
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Yes, I meant duckets of course... but a ducket won't feed too many duckies these days.
# Posted on July 24th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
I wish a person could just go out and play music on their own, like it was in the old days. None of this into-the-van nonsense. Launching CDs. What the hell does that mean? Irish music originally was solo music, following the lead of the old harpers, like baroque classical music, which was chamber oriented. People would sit around and listen to what someone played! How about that. Or dance to it.
The music industry - which I mean to include that crucial factor, record buyers - also imposes its own tastes on what gets put into stores. I've heard about various musicians wishing they could just put out some records with tunes on them, instead of Celtic Trad. Some of them have done so on their own labels - Jerry O'Sullivan for instance, The Gift (various lineups, genres, on Shanachie) was a much more broadly appealing record than O'Sullivan Meets O'Farrell (his own label, purely solo piping). Or James Kelly I think - isin't Melodic Journeys on his own imprint instead of a big company?
# Posted on July 24th 2005 by Kevin Rietmann
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
"So, hobby? Calling? Profession? Amateur? Professional? All of the above? What are the sacrifices you've made, and have they been worth it? Are you settled in your choices?"
High-strung's query here reminds me of a TV commercial that was on a while back that was about retirement investments. It featured a guy who had just retired comfortably (because of what the advert offered) and he took off his business suit and changed into attire that would suit a 50s and 60s period jazz musician. He then got out his saxophone and posed on a stool -- and really looked the part. At the very end of the ad he puts the sax to his lips and a horrible sound comes out. He says, “Now all I have to do is learn how to play this thing."
So this guy in the ad had sacrificed the time required to learn to play jazz working towards his retirement instead. This is the catch-22 of being a musician and having a career doing something else. It's an extreme example, but for me it spoke to this paradox. Some people have an inheritance, others manage to find enough time to become quite accomplished despite their careers, but most of us struggle to find time in between family and occupation to put in the required time.
People like myself who lack both an inheritance and talent have to make a hard choice between work and playing music. If I hadn't become obsessed with ITM I'd probably be a successful graphic designer with my own design firm. Instead I'm an eternal bohemian Irish musician eking out a living between freelance work as an artist and playing trad for fun and or profit. But at least I'll never find myself in the situation of the guy in the TV ad.
# Posted on July 24th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
I didn't know that the term 'hobby' was so fraught with various meanings...
I'm not particularly comfortable with the term myself. It does present images of tying fishing flies or building bird houses, and playing music means so much more than that to most people. But the reality is that it costs money to live, and like James Michener wrote about writing, "You can make a killing, but you can't make a living." And that's true of virtually all the arts. If I were independently wealthy, I'd spend a lot more practicing and playing, for sure, but for now, it's a balance. And unlike the guy in the TV ad, although I'm not ready to retire, I can actually play my instruments, and do, even if not exactly at a master level.
# Posted on July 25th 2005 by Audeamus
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
> ..."You can make a killing, but you can't make a living."
Cue old joke about the musician who wins £1million the lottery. Asked what he's going to do, he replies "Guess I'll keep gigging till the money runs out".
Ed.
# Posted on July 25th 2005 by Presumin Ed
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Jim Troy, you said , *laddie * .
i presume you meant , *lady *
ladies are quite another thing , altogether .
i used to feed them , in St.Stephen's Green, when I was a duckie . 8)
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by BegF
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Im not sure what you'd call what I'm doing, im only 17 so I have a lot of free time to play, even during the school year i maintain 3-4 hours a day and since i play alto sax and flute in the school band the band director lets me practice ITM during the school day, of course he also has me play at all school functions and at all the concerts but hey its exciting. I can't say i have the same dilema with my parents as others seem to. My parents greatly encourage my playing, my father wants me to learn another irish instrument so i can do more performances. I play at the local sessions and since my sister, brother in law and his brother all play different instruments we often play as a little band at some functions.
# Posted on July 26th 2005 by saveurbacon
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
Saveurbacon,
You're "a student", which in this context means that you don't have to decide or know your relationship to this question for quite a while yet.
You are in the business of collecting information, experiences and skills. A wonderful thing.
Being a perpetual and informal student is my hobby. <GGG>
Be good to your parents, it's great that they encourage you so!
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on July 31st 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Sessions: Hobby or Calling?
I know this is an old thread, but I'm new to the board and have just read it for the first time. So forgive me if this is old news.
When I was in college as a music major, I was on a road trip with one of our performing ensembles, and was sitting with another ensemble member. I finally asked her a qustion that had been nagging at me for 3 years. She was quite talented - she sang, played the flute in the marching band, played as part of our university handbell choir, and a few other things. She even took music theory classes as electives! So I asked her why she wasn't majoring, or even minoring, in music. Her response has stayed with me for the last 20 years: "I love music too much to do that. It would kill the joy." It took me a long time to figure that out, because I loved music too much to major in anything else. But finally I did. She didn't want the pressure of making a living from her love of music; she wanted to make a living to support her love of music. As far as I know, she's still very happy doing just that. Kudos to Julie, wherever she is now, and to any and all of you who do the same thing. Whether hobby or profession, if you have music in your soul, it's your calling, even if it's not your paycheck.
# Posted on November 22nd 2006 by CC Piper