I have a moderately uncomfortable case of tennis elbow--right arm. I suspect, but don't know if it is attributable to my infatuation with the bodhran, which I had started playing about a year ago, tho' I also play the mandolin and tenor banjo. Has anyone else had similar experience, and more importantly, what works to treat it (hopefully something other than having to give up the bodhran/mando/banjo)?
Ice it a couple of times a day and let it rest. It'll take time. After you recover, ice the elbow before and after playing. Once you've had an inflammation like that, you're at increased risk of having it again.
See a doctor, if you want, but they rarely have anything more to offer, except steroid injections and anti-inflammatory drugs.
I developed it after working out on a heavy bag. I used a bag of frozen peas instead of ice. Definitely see a doctor first. There are some physio exercises I found helpful - a summary is at http://ilil.essortment.com/tenniselbow_rbfk.htm
I'm a physical therapist ( also play the Bodhran). The most common form of "tennis elbow" is inflammation of the common extensor tendon which can be found on the outside of the forearm at the elbow crease. If you hold your arm parallel to the ground (palm side down), straigthen your arm at the elbow and then bend the wrist and fingers down you generally can elicit pain. That pain is coming form the common extensor tendon.
I'm not sure how playing the Bodhran would injure it. It's usually injured when you extend your wrist and fingers against a force - like a backhand in tennis.
If the injury is over a couple of days old you may want to apply moist heat (bathtub, sink, warm wet towel over a hot water bottle, etc). That will help to increase blood flow which is necessary for healing.
As Bobhimself said above you need to be careful and it is easy to reinjure unless it is healed. Avoid using that arm on doing common things like opening swining doors, picking up grocery bags with that hand, ect. The best way to pick up things in a way that will not aggravate the tendon is to use a motion where the hand and fingers move to the underside of the forearm (that part of the forearm which is less hairy - never used that description before!) Avoid extending your hand and fingers the other way (like we normally open a refrigerator door). Just give it time before you start going back to regualr activities. You may want to take some anti inflammatory like ibuprofin for pain as well. Hope this helps.
I play banjo and mandolin, but don't play bodhran.
I don't have tennis elbow.
It's obviously God's judgement on you for playing bodhran.
Seriously though - whilst not disagreeing with all the helpful bits from other people, I strongly recommend an "over the counter" Vitamin B complex for a couple of weeks. When I have had tendonitis in the past I have found this to be astonishingly helpful.
Dr Stefan
I dont play bodhran, mandolin or banjo but do play concertina, and guitar and every now and again I get a pain in the outer middle of my right arm where the biceps are. Strange sort of pain too, If i stretch, it generally goes away. What do you suggest?
Also I talk to me dog a lot. Is that a problem?
The advice given about resting the arm, icing the arm, and alternating the icing with moist heat applications is spot on. I would add mild stretching and adding a good amount of essential fatty acids to your diet. This can be accomplished by taking a good EFA supplement. You should insure that eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) are present in this supplement. As one who deals with my body’s inability to properly control its inflammation process I have found supplementing my EFA very helpful.
Once healed I would recommend that you stretch the muscles in the arm routinely and especially before you play music. When strength and flexibility are built up the risk of re-injuring the arm is reduced although not eliminated.
It may even be helpful to see a good Chiropractor as improper alignment of you skeletal structure may be a contributing factor to the injury.
There are a lot of muso-related strains. RSI for fiddle-players is not unknown. Why does ones left hand go numb for a few minutes after starting to play the bouzouki in a session ? ( I think that one is due to having the belly of the instrument n one's lap - if you put it over the right thigh the left hand is lower and closer to the body ).
At one time I had bi-lateral "tennis elbow", when I had a particularly heavy work-load as a veterinary autopsy technician - those cows don't come apart by themselves ! Went to the personnel doctor - "Don't you have any help ?" " I am the help. " Now I work elsewhere.
Kiwi- The pain that you refer to might not be associated with your biceps it could be rerferred pain from your neck (supporting musculature or narrowing of the disc spaces), or shoulder. Notice when you play if you happen to keep your head and neck in generally one position. If so, try changing that position. In the end, however, if you are able to stretch your arm and the pain goes away all well and good.
As for talking to your dog, it's all the rage here in the States.
Ed’s right about stretching and exercising. After I recovered from my tendinitis, it kept trying to come back until I learned how to stretch and exercise (carefully).
I talk to my cat. And she talks back. The crazy thing is that while she apparently understands a dozen or more words and phrases, I don’t understand a single thing she says. Makes me wonder who’s the intelligent being and who’s the dumb beast.
I hear that Scottish fiddlers, particular the cynical variety, are particularly susceptible to auditory conditions which make the sound of Bodhran unbearable.
I talk to my horse. Sometimes she talks back and sometimes I understand. Like today, I think much of what she had to say was, "This ^%#$#% the worst #%^%* trail ride I have ever #$@* been on in my entire %@#*& life. "
I had a bad case of sore elbow a few years ago. Other joints were stiff also and friend let me know about joint vitamins and the relationship between drinking, dehydration and joint problem. I cut back on the drinking. I don't indulge in whiskey or hard liquor anymore. I take Glucosomine, Chondritin and MSM. It made a difference.
I also studied some of the veteran players like Kevin Conneff, and how you can transfer a lot of the motion into the wrist. My angle of the tipper to the drum surface is also almost parallel, making triplets, triplets chains, doubling up and other techniques easier.
No criticism about playing other styles that involve a lot of elbow motion, but sooner or later you have to consider longevity.
Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
I have a moderately uncomfortable case of tennis elbow--right arm. I suspect, but don't know if it is attributable to my infatuation with the bodhran, which I had started playing about a year ago, tho' I also play the mandolin and tenor banjo. Has anyone else had similar experience, and more importantly, what works to treat it (hopefully something other than having to give up the bodhran/mando/banjo)?
Many thanks for your comments.
John McDaniel
# Posted on June 23rd 2005 by jmcdaniel
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
[Insert medical disclaimer here]
Ice it a couple of times a day and let it rest. It'll take time. After you recover, ice the elbow before and after playing. Once you've had an inflammation like that, you're at increased risk of having it again.
See a doctor, if you want, but they rarely have anything more to offer, except steroid injections and anti-inflammatory drugs.
# Posted on June 23rd 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
I developed it after working out on a heavy bag. I used a bag of frozen peas instead of ice. Definitely see a doctor first. There are some physio exercises I found helpful - a summary is at http://ilil.essortment.com/tenniselbow_rbfk.htm
Jim
# Posted on June 23rd 2005 by Worldfiddler
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
Yep. Give it a rest
# Posted on June 24th 2005 by ...
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
I'm a physical therapist ( also play the Bodhran). The most common form of "tennis elbow" is inflammation of the common extensor tendon which can be found on the outside of the forearm at the elbow crease. If you hold your arm parallel to the ground (palm side down), straigthen your arm at the elbow and then bend the wrist and fingers down you generally can elicit pain. That pain is coming form the common extensor tendon.
I'm not sure how playing the Bodhran would injure it. It's usually injured when you extend your wrist and fingers against a force - like a backhand in tennis.
If the injury is over a couple of days old you may want to apply moist heat (bathtub, sink, warm wet towel over a hot water bottle, etc). That will help to increase blood flow which is necessary for healing.
As Bobhimself said above you need to be careful and it is easy to reinjure unless it is healed. Avoid using that arm on doing common things like opening swining doors, picking up grocery bags with that hand, ect. The best way to pick up things in a way that will not aggravate the tendon is to use a motion where the hand and fingers move to the underside of the forearm (that part of the forearm which is less hairy - never used that description before!) Avoid extending your hand and fingers the other way (like we normally open a refrigerator door). Just give it time before you start going back to regualr activities. You may want to take some anti inflammatory like ibuprofin for pain as well. Hope this helps.
Stefan
# Posted on June 24th 2005 by stefanmlawa
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
I play banjo and mandolin, but don't play bodhran.
I don't have tennis elbow.
It's obviously God's judgement on you for playing bodhran.
Seriously though - whilst not disagreeing with all the helpful bits from other people, I strongly recommend an "over the counter" Vitamin B complex for a couple of weeks. When I have had tendonitis in the past I have found this to be astonishingly helpful.
Dave
# Posted on June 24th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
Dr Stefan
I dont play bodhran, mandolin or banjo but do play concertina, and guitar and every now and again I get a pain in the outer middle of my right arm where the biceps are. Strange sort of pain too, If i stretch, it generally goes away. What do you suggest?
Also I talk to me dog a lot. Is that a problem?
# Posted on June 24th 2005 by kiwi
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
Watch out! I believe Tim Henman's thinking of taking up the bodhran.
# Posted on June 24th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
Dear Mr Kiwi
My dog gets lonely when I'm out at work, perhaps you could phone him for a chat sometimes.
Dave
# Posted on June 24th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
The advice given about resting the arm, icing the arm, and alternating the icing with moist heat applications is spot on. I would add mild stretching and adding a good amount of essential fatty acids to your diet. This can be accomplished by taking a good EFA supplement. You should insure that eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) are present in this supplement. As one who deals with my body’s inability to properly control its inflammation process I have found supplementing my EFA very helpful.
Once healed I would recommend that you stretch the muscles in the arm routinely and especially before you play music. When strength and flexibility are built up the risk of re-injuring the arm is reduced although not eliminated.
It may even be helpful to see a good Chiropractor as improper alignment of you skeletal structure may be a contributing factor to the injury.
Peace,
Ed
# Posted on June 24th 2005 by ejsant
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
There are a lot of muso-related strains. RSI for fiddle-players is not unknown. Why does ones left hand go numb for a few minutes after starting to play the bouzouki in a session ? ( I think that one is due to having the belly of the instrument n one's lap - if you put it over the right thigh the left hand is lower and closer to the body ).
At one time I had bi-lateral "tennis elbow", when I had a particularly heavy work-load as a veterinary autopsy technician - those cows don't come apart by themselves ! Went to the personnel doctor - "Don't you have any help ?" " I am the help. " Now I work elsewhere.
# Posted on June 24th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
Kiwi- The pain that you refer to might not be associated with your biceps it could be rerferred pain from your neck (supporting musculature or narrowing of the disc spaces), or shoulder. Notice when you play if you happen to keep your head and neck in generally one position. If so, try changing that position. In the end, however, if you are able to stretch your arm and the pain goes away all well and good.
As for talking to your dog, it's all the rage here in the States.
Stefan
# Posted on June 24th 2005 by stefanmlawa
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
Ed’s right about stretching and exercising. After I recovered from my tendinitis, it kept trying to come back until I learned how to stretch and exercise (carefully).
I talk to my cat. And she talks back. The crazy thing is that while she apparently understands a dozen or more words and phrases, I don’t understand a single thing she says. Makes me wonder who’s the intelligent being and who’s the dumb beast.
# Posted on June 24th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
I hear that Scottish fiddlers, particular the cynical variety, are particularly susceptible to auditory conditions which make the sound of Bodhran unbearable.
# Posted on June 24th 2005 by tulloch
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
...I've also heard that a good excersice for the scotch auditory ailment is a good stretching of the imagination.
# Posted on June 24th 2005 by tulloch
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
An apple a day keeps the strath at spey.
...oh ...never mind... It's almost friday night and I'm obviously feeling very obnoxious. There's a beer and some jalapeno tortias with my name on it.
...can you get shin splints from stomping on some elses bodhran?
# Posted on June 24th 2005 by tulloch
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
If you want to really suffer, take up the pipes.
I talk to my horse. Sometimes she talks back and sometimes I understand. Like today, I think much of what she had to say was, "This ^%#$#% the worst #%^%* trail ride I have ever #$@* been on in my entire %@#*& life. "
# Posted on June 25th 2005 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Tennis (or Bodhran) Elbow??
I had a bad case of sore elbow a few years ago. Other joints were stiff also and friend let me know about joint vitamins and the relationship between drinking, dehydration and joint problem. I cut back on the drinking. I don't indulge in whiskey or hard liquor anymore. I take Glucosomine, Chondritin and MSM. It made a difference.
I also studied some of the veteran players like Kevin Conneff, and how you can transfer a lot of the motion into the wrist. My angle of the tipper to the drum surface is also almost parallel, making triplets, triplets chains, doubling up and other techniques easier.
No criticism about playing other styles that involve a lot of elbow motion, but sooner or later you have to consider longevity.
# Posted on July 4th 2005 by CeolCairdeas