I'm sure many of you have heard about the band called Flogging Molly. It is starting to become very popular amoung ameircan teenagers. They are not an awful band. They are not what one would call traditional, but thats not the point. Alot of people seem to think that combining Irish/scottish and Rock is a new thing. What about the pogues? What about the Elders? What about seven nations? What about all those other countless bands? Any comments?
Oh yeah . . .forget to say my question. What makes it that a band like flogging molly can become so popular, when there are bands out there that are just as good, if not more musically talented, that remain in the dust.
flogging molly became popular on the basis that they were probably in the right place at the right time. they got on the warped tour, probably had a good marketing/PR backing and got their niche,as a less faux-irish dropkick-murphys, and got popular.
i'm not going to sit here and deny that FM are something new- as banan512 said, there has been numerous irish/rock bands over the years, and FM seem to draw comparison to all of them (fairport, pogues etc etc). it's the naievity of the people that call FM et al the next big thing or whatever, without really delving into the influences behind the band, that cause the problems. sure, at one time i was naieve about certain genres of music, but if you like it enough(rather than being in as a phase) then you're going to want to delve into the background of the music, just like im doing with ITM.
and the gripe about talented bands remaining in the dust is true-its just that,as i said in the beginning, that they got in the right place at the right time and made the most of it, and who can blame them for doing something they love?
And of course Steeleye Span, who plugged in, synthesized and really rocked the music out.
Anna, I'm afraid popularity and "success" has nothing to do with merit. It just happens. It's a fad, like Hula-Hoops and Davey Crockett hats and, as Aaron says, an awful lot of just being in the right place at the right time.
Nor does one actually need to innovate to be considered innovative, just find a fad of 20 years ago or so and start doing that. No one under 20 remembers the earlier fad. Of course as soon as they discover the older tradition they'll go purist on you in a heartbeat and actually deride you any time you try to innovate.
You can't win. You can't even break even. Enjoy the music.
I agree with all the comments about right place and right time. I think that Flogging Molly's popularity comes a lot form which label they were on when they became popular, the Epitaph labe is the most popular of the underground punk labes, meaning that they get exposwure to a large amount of people who would not neccessarily listen to them otherwise. I have to admit that the first time I heard them was on an epitaph sampler, whereas a lot of other bands don't get that opertunity to get exposure to people who would not otherwise listen to that kind of music. It's the same with the Dropkick Murphys, who were (and still are) on Epitaph when they became popular. The thing that gets these bands popular is a combination of getting popular on there local scene (where there are not neccessarily many other bands doing the same thing) and getting noticed by a label that is going to put out samplers and other promotional material to expand thier audience.
my 2p worth
Anders
PS Having seen flogging Molly and The Dropkick Murphys live I have to say I like both and theyb put on a great live show, if you like crossover bands.
KFG you're wise in saying to just enjoy the music. You have the most interesting responses to things buddy. As creepy as this sounds, I've enjoyed trying to piece together what type of person you are by your posts on things.
Once again, I have nothing against flogging molly. I was just curious as to why people thought they become popular, as opposed to other bands similar to them.
I'm just another schmuck with an Internet connection who is going to die young and impoverished because in his youth he got this bizzare idea that real wealth had little to do with money, but just might have a great deal to do with music.
I wouldn't pay me no nevermind. That way lies tragedy.
As for the idea of its being creepy I wouldn't worry about that either. You don't impress me as being half as creepy as the people who already follow me around. Hell, one of 'em even plays the bodhran.
And if I'm not careful my biographer is going to have a field day with this s**t.
I don't follow the irish/schottish rock seen too closely. And I don't mean to change the s ubject (if it is a subject change), but a popular irish rock band around here is Black 47. How do you guys feel about them? I like 'em.
Here in the US, and outside of Ireland, "Celtic rock" bands have the greatest chance for success. Their audience isn't raised on Irish music and is usually introduced to any form of it through these bands. Venues that book rock, pop, etc. aren't going to book a traditional group playing brilliant Irish music, but if you sound like a rock band you can get the gig.
I worked with a musician early on who later formed one of these "Celtic rock" bands, but at the time we were playing trad. He said to me, "No one is interested in Irish music unless it has electric bass and drums. (meaning drum kit) I realized we were in different bands at that point and we parted ways. I never intended to play for people that could only understand music if it had the underpinnings of rock music as the meat & potatoes of the sound. And I also realized that the people who are attracted to play "Celtic rock" aren't interested in all of the aspects of traditional music that attracted me to begin with. The bottom line is that they are to separate entities all together.
With the exception of original bands like the Pogues, or the really good fusion bands like Moving Hearts, Cool Fin, etc. and the excellent bands pushing the envelope like Lunasa, the "Celtic rock" bands usually originate outside of Ireland. They wouldn't enjoy the same success in Ireland that they have in areas that are unaware of Irish traditional music.
These kind of bands can be good and bad within their own frame of reference. I have not been a rock fan for years, but I do enjoy putting on a Great Big Sea album once in a while and turning up the volume. There is power in the jigs and reels and traditional songs, and power in the rock format, and when the two worlds are combined well, it can be fun. Of course, they can miss the mark also, but that is another story. There is room in the world for these bands, and for the acoustic trad folks as well.
I saw FM again about a week ago (that was me pogo'ing through the mosh pit). I had a great time in a PACKED large venue (mostly underage attendies - it was an all-ages show). I think that those who maintain that FM are new or innovative (in colliding rock and ITM) are displaying a lack of musical knowledge or youth and inexperience.
They're kind of a one note band, but the note they play is an awful lot of fun (no one would accuse such drinking bands as having a lot of depth). Of course, the trouble for me with Irish-rock bands in general is that whereas ITM is a rather eternal thing for me (I make no preferential distinction between yesterday's session and one recorded 50 years ago), rock tends to get dated in a real hurry. You've got to be careful what you marry ITM to...
Back to FM:
Irish Traditional? Nope.
A good time? Yea.
I've heard second-hand that some members of the band, when not earning their living, do a bang-up job at playing "straight" traditional.
FM did play up the "I'm a Irish Catholic" bit, as well as the "I'm Irish and I drink" bit. That did get old in a real hurry, but the young, non-ITM-intiated audience members bought it (and no doubt bought loads of FM's CDs too). Probably one reason why similar Irish-rock outfits fail to resonate in Ireland...
To this ignant yankee, the Pogues epitomize "authenticity" a zillion times more than a lot of the more new-agey stuff one hears on, say, thistle & shamrock.
Sure, they have an electric bass + drum kit. BUT. They (Shane especially) have really lived life, and it shows. The tunes on their later albums have some solid foundations in dance tunes, too.
The Pogues also put on a *damn* good show. Is it session music? Clearly not. Is that a problem? Not to me.
My Peeve with Flogging Molly
My Peeve with Flogging Molly
I'm sure many of you have heard about the band called Flogging Molly. It is starting to become very popular amoung ameircan teenagers. They are not an awful band. They are not what one would call traditional, but thats not the point. Alot of people seem to think that combining Irish/scottish and Rock is a new thing. What about the pogues? What about the Elders? What about seven nations? What about all those other countless bands? Any comments?
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by banana512
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
Oh yeah . . .forget to say my question. What makes it that a band like flogging molly can become so popular, when there are bands out there that are just as good, if not more musically talented, that remain in the dust.
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by banana512
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
What about Fairport Convention?
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by Murph
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
What about Boyzone? What about Westlife?
(hee hee hee)
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by brianc
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
flogging molly became popular on the basis that they were probably in the right place at the right time. they got on the warped tour, probably had a good marketing/PR backing and got their niche,as a less faux-irish dropkick-murphys, and got popular.
i'm not going to sit here and deny that FM are something new- as banan512 said, there has been numerous irish/rock bands over the years, and FM seem to draw comparison to all of them (fairport, pogues etc etc). it's the naievity of the people that call FM et al the next big thing or whatever, without really delving into the influences behind the band, that cause the problems. sure, at one time i was naieve about certain genres of music, but if you like it enough(rather than being in as a phase) then you're going to want to delve into the background of the music, just like im doing with ITM.
and the gripe about talented bands remaining in the dust is true-its just that,as i said in the beginning, that they got in the right place at the right time and made the most of it, and who can blame them for doing something they love?
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by aaron b
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
And of course Steeleye Span, who plugged in, synthesized and really rocked the music out.
Anna, I'm afraid popularity and "success" has nothing to do with merit. It just happens. It's a fad, like Hula-Hoops and Davey Crockett hats and, as Aaron says, an awful lot of just being in the right place at the right time.
Nor does one actually need to innovate to be considered innovative, just find a fad of 20 years ago or so and start doing that. No one under 20 remembers the earlier fad. Of course as soon as they discover the older tradition they'll go purist on you in a heartbeat and actually deride you any time you try to innovate.
You can't win. You can't even break even. Enjoy the music.
KFG
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by KFG
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
I heart Flogging Molly. The end.
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by fiddlinviolinin
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
I agree with all the comments about right place and right time. I think that Flogging Molly's popularity comes a lot form which label they were on when they became popular, the Epitaph labe is the most popular of the underground punk labes, meaning that they get exposwure to a large amount of people who would not neccessarily listen to them otherwise. I have to admit that the first time I heard them was on an epitaph sampler, whereas a lot of other bands don't get that opertunity to get exposure to people who would not otherwise listen to that kind of music. It's the same with the Dropkick Murphys, who were (and still are) on Epitaph when they became popular. The thing that gets these bands popular is a combination of getting popular on there local scene (where there are not neccessarily many other bands doing the same thing) and getting noticed by a label that is going to put out samplers and other promotional material to expand thier audience.
my 2p worth
Anders
PS Having seen flogging Molly and The Dropkick Murphys live I have to say I like both and theyb put on a great live show, if you like crossover bands.
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by weefreefidler
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
I like the responses from people thanks.
KFG you're wise in saying to just enjoy the music. You have the most interesting responses to things buddy. As creepy as this sounds, I've enjoyed trying to piece together what type of person you are by your posts on things.
Once again, I have nothing against flogging molly. I was just curious as to why people thought they become popular, as opposed to other bands similar to them.
# Posted on May 30th 2005 by banana512
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
I'm just another schmuck with an Internet connection who is going to die young and impoverished because in his youth he got this bizzare idea that real wealth had little to do with money, but just might have a great deal to do with music.
I wouldn't pay me no nevermind. That way lies tragedy.
As for the idea of its being creepy I wouldn't worry about that either. You don't impress me as being half as creepy as the people who already follow me around. Hell, one of 'em even plays the bodhran.
And if I'm not careful my biographer is going to have a field day with this s**t.
KFG
# Posted on May 30th 2005 by KFG
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
I don't follow the irish/schottish rock seen too closely. And I don't mean to change the s ubject (if it is a subject change), but a popular irish rock band around here is Black 47. How do you guys feel about them? I like 'em.
# Posted on May 30th 2005 by Pete D
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
Actually, I haven't heard them yet. They'll be passing through Albany in a couple of weeks and I'll try to catch them.
KFG
# Posted on May 30th 2005 by KFG
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
How can you call Black 47 or Flogging Molly "Irish rock bands". Their albums should be filed under "Pathetic" They'd be laughed off the stage here.
# Posted on May 30th 2005 by Backer
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
"They'd be laughed off the stage here."
Here in the US, and outside of Ireland, "Celtic rock" bands have the greatest chance for success. Their audience isn't raised on Irish music and is usually introduced to any form of it through these bands. Venues that book rock, pop, etc. aren't going to book a traditional group playing brilliant Irish music, but if you sound like a rock band you can get the gig.
I worked with a musician early on who later formed one of these "Celtic rock" bands, but at the time we were playing trad. He said to me, "No one is interested in Irish music unless it has electric bass and drums. (meaning drum kit) I realized we were in different bands at that point and we parted ways. I never intended to play for people that could only understand music if it had the underpinnings of rock music as the meat & potatoes of the sound. And I also realized that the people who are attracted to play "Celtic rock" aren't interested in all of the aspects of traditional music that attracted me to begin with. The bottom line is that they are to separate entities all together.
With the exception of original bands like the Pogues, or the really good fusion bands like Moving Hearts, Cool Fin, etc. and the excellent bands pushing the envelope like Lunasa, the "Celtic rock" bands usually originate outside of Ireland. They wouldn't enjoy the same success in Ireland that they have in areas that are unaware of Irish traditional music.
# Posted on May 30th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
These kind of bands can be good and bad within their own frame of reference. I have not been a rock fan for years, but I do enjoy putting on a Great Big Sea album once in a while and turning up the volume. There is power in the jigs and reels and traditional songs, and power in the rock format, and when the two worlds are combined well, it can be fun. Of course, they can miss the mark also, but that is another story. There is room in the world for these bands, and for the acoustic trad folks as well.
# Posted on May 31st 2005 by AlBrown
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
I saw FM again about a week ago (that was me pogo'ing through the mosh pit). I had a great time in a PACKED large venue (mostly underage attendies - it was an all-ages show). I think that those who maintain that FM are new or innovative (in colliding rock and ITM) are displaying a lack of musical knowledge or youth and inexperience.
They're kind of a one note band, but the note they play is an awful lot of fun (no one would accuse such drinking bands as having a lot of depth). Of course, the trouble for me with Irish-rock bands in general is that whereas ITM is a rather eternal thing for me (I make no preferential distinction between yesterday's session and one recorded 50 years ago), rock tends to get dated in a real hurry. You've got to be careful what you marry ITM to...
Back to FM:
Irish Traditional? Nope.
A good time? Yea.
I've heard second-hand that some members of the band, when not earning their living, do a bang-up job at playing "straight" traditional.
FM did play up the "I'm a Irish Catholic" bit, as well as the "I'm Irish and I drink" bit. That did get old in a real hurry, but the young, non-ITM-intiated audience members bought it (and no doubt bought loads of FM's CDs too). Probably one reason why similar Irish-rock outfits fail to resonate in Ireland...
# Posted on May 31st 2005 by Schy
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
Kevvy, DEAR, ordinary schmucks on the Net don't have their own biographers. Just so you know.
# Posted on May 31st 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: My Peeve with Flogging Molly
To this ignant yankee, the Pogues epitomize "authenticity" a zillion times more than a lot of the more new-agey stuff one hears on, say, thistle & shamrock.
Sure, they have an electric bass + drum kit. BUT. They (Shane especially) have really lived life, and it shows. The tunes on their later albums have some solid foundations in dance tunes, too.
The Pogues also put on a *damn* good show. Is it session music? Clearly not. Is that a problem? Not to me.
# Posted on May 31st 2005 by wormdiet