I have to sing an Irish song for an Irish lady's funeral tomorrow. It's not traditional (written in 1947 or so) but the non-Irish husband sang it for her once and it has sentimental value for the family. The poor lady herself will probably the only Irish person present, but still I'd like to get it right.
How to I pronounce Claddagh? (I've seen clad-daw, clad-ah, clay-day and even clod-uh in my reading around this morning.)
And "gossoon"? I'm guessing this is a word for a child, as whatever gossoons are, they play barefoot in the song.
And the other word is not 'gossoon', but rather 'garsun', and it means "boy"...
I suspect you're singing "Galway Bay".... if that is the case, the word in that song is "garsuin" (I think I have that spelled correctly), and it's pronounced:
GAR-soons... but barely pronounce the "R" in it, and you'll be fine.
Thankyou gents! A small thing, perhaps, but I like to get these things right.
Yes, it is Galway Bay. I've never heard it/heard of it before. The family requested it yesterday and thankfully I found words and a midi file on the Internet, and have managed to confirm that I have the right Galway Bay (not the one Dolores Keane sings) and the right tune for it.
I guess "gossoon" is an anglicised spelling, then - it's spelt that way in all the versions of the lyrics that I found, so it's nice to know what the word actually is.
The word is definately gasur, and the fada`s are on both vowels, it would be pronounced gas-oor.
Have that version of Galway bay.
Good luck, I`m sure you`ll do a fine job of it.
Why, if I might be so bold as to ask,would you not regard Galway bay as a traditional song since it was "only" written in 1947? Is there a line in the sand here? To my mind a traditional song/tune is one which has a traditional form, not a particular timeline.
Sometimes people use the term traditional in context to denote that its old and we don't have a clue who wrote it. You will find this usage on CD sleeve notes, where some of the tunes have copyright/composer listed and some just have "Trad Arr....."
This is not strictly correct usage but in context is at least forgivable - not that Tish even made that mistake.
Origin of the word would be interesting. Are those hand, heart and crown rings called Claddagh rings?
Wreckin' rea, I don't know if I did a fine job of it but the widower was very happy and we even had a few joiner-inners, so it can't have gone too badly. Thanks for the encouragement!
OK, so anyone who does know this song - is it traditional or isn't it? It doesn't feel like it to me, seems more like a song that might have been composed for solo performance. (I'm using those words in a literal sense, not in a derogatory way.) The words are apparently by Arthur Colahan and I don't know the provenance of the tune. I'd never heard it before Saturday and I'm interested.
Traditional comes from a Latin root meaning "to hand over." In English it means handed over from one generation to another. There is no definative line in the sand, but yes, there is a sort of a smudgy area in the sand. I've just been playing a tune of my own. So far as I know it has been passed on to no one. It is not only fairly new, but I'm the only one that plays it. It is not traditional.
It is, however, a hornpipe, and the hornpipe form has certainly been passed to me from a previous generation. I'm afraid the word may have different meanings depending upon context.
Which brings us to Claddagh, which translates roughly as, "Jaysus, this beach sucks. There's no bloody sand to draw lines in."
Gosson is actually fine as a pronunciation. It's still very common in Hiberno-English the Midlands. You get it as gossoon elsewhere too.
It comes into Hiberno-English from the Irish, and there are several different variants in Irish depending on which dialect, "gasúr" in Galway for example, which means "children", not just "boy". In Kerry you get it as "garsún", or with metathesis as "gasrún", meaning "a boy". It does indeed derive from French "garcon", and probably first appeared in Irish in Munster as did many other French borrowings.
I remember gársún being in common use in my parents' homes in south Armagh. Locally pronounced"gah-sun". Not forgetting the young ladies they were "gyer-sils"-do any other counties use this for girls?
Peter
London
Pronunciation help for funeral tomorrow
Pronunciation help for funeral tomorrow
Hi all,
I have to sing an Irish song for an Irish lady's funeral tomorrow. It's not traditional (written in 1947 or so) but the non-Irish husband sang it for her once and it has sentimental value for the family. The poor lady herself will probably the only Irish person present, but still I'd like to get it right.
How to I pronounce Claddagh? (I've seen clad-daw, clad-ah, clay-day and even clod-uh in my reading around this morning.)
And "gossoon"? I'm guessing this is a word for a child, as whatever gossoons are, they play barefoot in the song.
Thanks in advance!
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by Tish
Re: Pronunciation help for funeral tomorrow
"Claddagh" is pronounced:
KLAD-duh
And the other word is not 'gossoon', but rather 'garsun', and it means "boy"...
I suspect you're singing "Galway Bay".... if that is the case, the word in that song is "garsuin" (I think I have that spelled correctly), and it's pronounced:
GAR-soons... but barely pronounce the "R" in it, and you'll be fine.
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by brianc
Re: Pronunciation help for funeral tomorrow
Thankyou gents! A small thing, perhaps, but I like to get these things right.
Yes, it is Galway Bay. I've never heard it/heard of it before. The family requested it yesterday and thankfully I found words and a midi file on the Internet, and have managed to confirm that I have the right Galway Bay (not the one Dolores Keane sings) and the right tune for it.
I guess "gossoon" is an anglicised spelling, then - it's spelt that way in all the versions of the lyrics that I found, so it's nice to know what the word actually is.
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by Tish
Re: Pronunciation help for funeral tomorrow
The word is definately gasur, and the fada`s are on both vowels, it would be pronounced gas-oor.
Have that version of Galway bay.
Good luck, I`m sure you`ll do a fine job of it.
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by wreckin` rea
Re: Pronunciation help for funeral tomorrow
Why, if I might be so bold as to ask,would you not regard Galway bay as a traditional song since it was "only" written in 1947? Is there a line in the sand here? To my mind a traditional song/tune is one which has a traditional form, not a particular timeline.
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by Backer
Re: Pronunciation help for funeral tomorrow
"Written in 1947" is supplementary information, not a reason why I wouldn't regard it as traditional.
# Posted on May 30th 2005 by Tish
Re: Pronunciation help for funeral tomorrow
Sometimes people use the term traditional in context to denote that its old and we don't have a clue who wrote it. You will find this usage on CD sleeve notes, where some of the tunes have copyright/composer listed and some just have "Trad Arr....."
This is not strictly correct usage but in context is at least forgivable - not that Tish even made that mistake.
# Posted on May 30th 2005 by Donough
Re: Pronunciation help for funeral tomorrow
Origin of the word would be interesting. Are those hand, heart and crown rings called Claddagh rings?
Wreckin' rea, I don't know if I did a fine job of it but the widower was very happy and we even had a few joiner-inners, so it can't have gone too badly. Thanks for the encouragement!
OK, so anyone who does know this song - is it traditional or isn't it? It doesn't feel like it to me, seems more like a song that might have been composed for solo performance. (I'm using those words in a literal sense, not in a derogatory way.) The words are apparently by Arthur Colahan and I don't know the provenance of the tune. I'd never heard it before Saturday and I'm interested.
# Posted on May 30th 2005 by Tish
Re: Pronunciation help for funeral tomorrow
Traditional comes from a Latin root meaning "to hand over." In English it means handed over from one generation to another. There is no definative line in the sand, but yes, there is a sort of a smudgy area in the sand. I've just been playing a tune of my own. So far as I know it has been passed on to no one. It is not only fairly new, but I'm the only one that plays it. It is not traditional.
It is, however, a hornpipe, and the hornpipe form has certainly been passed to me from a previous generation. I'm afraid the word may have different meanings depending upon context.
Which brings us to Claddagh, which translates roughly as, "Jaysus, this beach sucks. There's no bloody sand to draw lines in."
KFG
# Posted on May 30th 2005 by KFG
Re: Pronunciation help for funeral tomorrow
Gosson is actually fine as a pronunciation. It's still very common in Hiberno-English the Midlands. You get it as gossoon elsewhere too.
It comes into Hiberno-English from the Irish, and there are several different variants in Irish depending on which dialect, "gasúr" in Galway for example, which means "children", not just "boy". In Kerry you get it as "garsún", or with metathesis as "gasrún", meaning "a boy". It does indeed derive from French "garcon", and probably first appeared in Irish in Munster as did many other French borrowings.
# Posted on May 30th 2005 by oraghalm
Re: Pronunciation help for funeral tomorrow
If only understanding a language were as simple as understanding its words.
KFG
# Posted on May 30th 2005 by KFG
Re: Pronunciation help for funeral tomorrow
I remember gársún being in common use in my parents' homes in south Armagh. Locally pronounced"gah-sun". Not forgetting the young ladies they were "gyer-sils"-do any other counties use this for girls?
Peter
London
# Posted on June 5th 2005 by sheepdip