I don't think I can pull that off without a change of strings and setup. I was being perfectly serious about the octave. I do that at times to accompany vocals.
I demo-ed some violins for Sonic Violins, and the octave ("Sub Sonic") sounded pretty good. The site is http://www.sonicviolins.co.uk/SubSonic.asp just for the record (and no, I'm not being paid to plug this!)
I suppose another option is fitting viola strings to a second fiddle. I tried it once, and it sounded OK. Didn't really think the note range suited much in the way of melody, but I'm sure I'm sure Michael Gill will have something to say about this. He'll probably say, "get a viola"
I did experiment with tuning standard fiddle up / down a half-tone, but I didn't like it much. Tuning up a half-step does brighten the sound a little, but for me it gets wearing on the ears after a short time.
I keep one of my fiddles set up with octave strings for vocal backups. D'Addario (and probably others) make strings specifically for that purpose, so you don't need to buy (more expensive) viola strings.
Jim, I played a session the other day where the flute player had a new Eb flute, so we all tuned up to Eb and played for about an hour there.
Like you mentioned, everything sounded very bright and cheery, although I was surprised at how disconcerting it was at times that I would reach for the wrong note. I wouldn't have thought that my brain would have noticed that we were in a different key...
The prices I see for octave violin strings are actually slightly higher than for the same strings for viola.
I'm a cheap bastard, so I've simply learned to play my standard setups tuned down an octave. I've recently been given a decent vintage German trade violin that needs refiting though, so I may try a dedicated octave setup on that.
The reason I don't simply get a viola is because, a) it isn't low enough, and b) the vocals I'm accompanying are my own, so I hold it old style. The extra size of the viola is critical for me. And did I mention that I'm a cheap bastard?
I'd be interested in playing an octave viola back to back with a cello though, just for my own edification, and I can play fiddle in gamba position, so if I'm going to be sitting to play anyway I could handle a viola that way. Or just get a cello and I've already mentioned a few times that I love cello. Doug Tipple's approach, setting up a 1/4 cello as an octave violin is interesting as well.
In any case, I seem to have highjacked this thread with a topic that has been dealt with a few times before already, so. . .
No, I don't tune down a half step, but If I know I'm going to be playing in C and F all night (which happens on occasion) I might tune down a whole. It's just for convenience though. Nothing to do with tone.
This might sound a bit strange, but I'm not what I would call a "tone junkie." I like a good tone, but there's no particular tone I consider "ideal." I don't change strings just because the tone changed, I only change them when they're damaged/dead. Different strings sound different to me, but I can't say that I think any of them sound "better," so long as they sound "good."
My approach has always been to take where I am and extract the "best" tone I can from there, so I can tune my standard setup down a whole step, or an octave, and get a tone I like perfectly well, because I'm not comparing it to some narrowly defined ideal.
I'm not unconcerned about tone, I simply consider it more of an issue of how play the fiddle, rather than a property of the fiddle itself, so instead of mucking about with the fiddle trying to get *it* to produce the "right" tone, I muck about with myself, trying to get *me* to produce the right tone.
I'm not a very accomplished fiddler, I've been playing off and on for 6 years. I don't know if its in my head or what but I seem to play better with it tuned down a half a step. It also has a fuller and sweeter sound.
I agree with KFG. Having the right strings can make a difference it sound, but in the end it really comes down to the musician. Your still a musician without your fiddle, and if you played another fiddle over the one you have now you would still be a musician.
A common pitch for A used 200 or 300 years ago was about 415 (a semitone or half a step down on today's concert pitch of 440). Violins of the time were made with that old pitch in mind, so I'm not surprised that fiddles sound that much better and more resonant at the lower pitch. If you want to keep a second fiddle permanently at the lower pitch I think it will help if you use heavier gauge strings.
Trevor
I read that many of the old-timers in Clare liked to tune down a step or so - they didn't really care where they landed! - to mellow the tone a bit. Also in the liners of the Floating Bow Alun Evans says Johnny Doherty liked to tune down, in contrast to the modern mania for tuning up - the liners of the Danny Meehan record mention a fellow who tuned up some gawdawful amount, two whole steps or something, and he "was louder than a melodeon, but sweet."
Coincidently, I tuned down on Friday to play with a piper in C. I love playing like that. It really does something to your approach. I left it tuned down and played on my own for awhile yesterday. I was contemplating getting another fiddle and leaving it in C. I sure wish the money tree was in bloom.
Michael Tubridy says that the most common key in use in the Kilrush area in Co Clare was 'C'. The 20 button concertinas, Single row melodeons, most mouthorgans and the most common instrument - the Clarke's tin whistle was in 'C' so the fiddlers just strung along
Fiddle tuning
Fiddle tuning
Does anyone else tune their fiddle down a half step. Mine sounds much better tuned down.
Just wondering.
# Posted on May 22nd 2005 by Zub
Re: Fiddle tuning
half step is for wusses.. :P
I usally am between a half and a whole step
# Posted on May 22nd 2005 by Pádraig
Re: Fiddle tuning
A whole step is for wusses. Go down an octave.
KFG
# Posted on May 22nd 2005 by KFG
Re: Fiddle tuning
just an octave?
go down a two perhaps that will be as new a the sound of bass guitar of Korn bass player
# Posted on May 22nd 2005 by padre
Re: Fiddle tuning
I don't think I can pull that off without a change of strings and setup. I was being perfectly serious about the octave. I do that at times to accompany vocals.
KFG
# Posted on May 22nd 2005 by KFG
Re: Fiddle tuning
I demo-ed some violins for Sonic Violins, and the octave ("Sub Sonic") sounded pretty good. The site is http://www.sonicviolins.co.uk/SubSonic.asp just for the record (and no, I'm not being paid to plug this!)
I suppose another option is fitting viola strings to a second fiddle. I tried it once, and it sounded OK. Didn't really think the note range suited much in the way of melody, but I'm sure I'm sure Michael Gill will have something to say about this. He'll probably say, "get a viola"
I did experiment with tuning standard fiddle up / down a half-tone, but I didn't like it much. Tuning up a half-step does brighten the sound a little, but for me it gets wearing on the ears after a short time.
Jim
# Posted on May 22nd 2005 by Worldfiddler
Re: Fiddle tuning
I keep one of my fiddles set up with octave strings for vocal backups. D'Addario (and probably others) make strings specifically for that purpose, so you don't need to buy (more expensive) viola strings.
# Posted on May 22nd 2005 by ScottC
Re: Fiddle tuning
Jim, I played a session the other day where the flute player had a new Eb flute, so we all tuned up to Eb and played for about an hour there.
Like you mentioned, everything sounded very bright and cheery, although I was surprised at how disconcerting it was at times that I would reach for the wrong note. I wouldn't have thought that my brain would have noticed that we were in a different key...
Pete
# Posted on May 22nd 2005 by Reverend
Re: Fiddle tuning
The prices I see for octave violin strings are actually slightly higher than for the same strings for viola.
I'm a cheap bastard, so I've simply learned to play my standard setups tuned down an octave. I've recently been given a decent vintage German trade violin that needs refiting though, so I may try a dedicated octave setup on that.
The reason I don't simply get a viola is because, a) it isn't low enough, and b) the vocals I'm accompanying are my own, so I hold it old style. The extra size of the viola is critical for me. And did I mention that I'm a cheap bastard?
I'd be interested in playing an octave viola back to back with a cello though, just for my own edification, and I can play fiddle in gamba position, so if I'm going to be sitting to play anyway I could handle a viola that way. Or just get a cello and I've already mentioned a few times that I love cello. Doug Tipple's approach, setting up a 1/4 cello as an octave violin is interesting as well.
In any case, I seem to have highjacked this thread with a topic that has been dealt with a few times before already, so. . .
No, I don't tune down a half step, but If I know I'm going to be playing in C and F all night (which happens on occasion) I might tune down a whole. It's just for convenience though. Nothing to do with tone.
This might sound a bit strange, but I'm not what I would call a "tone junkie." I like a good tone, but there's no particular tone I consider "ideal." I don't change strings just because the tone changed, I only change them when they're damaged/dead. Different strings sound different to me, but I can't say that I think any of them sound "better," so long as they sound "good."
My approach has always been to take where I am and extract the "best" tone I can from there, so I can tune my standard setup down a whole step, or an octave, and get a tone I like perfectly well, because I'm not comparing it to some narrowly defined ideal.
I'm not unconcerned about tone, I simply consider it more of an issue of how play the fiddle, rather than a property of the fiddle itself, so instead of mucking about with the fiddle trying to get *it* to produce the "right" tone, I muck about with myself, trying to get *me* to produce the right tone.
KFG
# Posted on May 22nd 2005 by KFG
Re: Fiddle tuning
Madnolins sound good down a half step but a full step ruins the intonation.
# Posted on May 22nd 2005 by Why Bother?
Re: Fiddle tuning
I'm not a very accomplished fiddler, I've been playing off and on for 6 years. I don't know if its in my head or what but I seem to play better with it tuned down a half a step. It also has a fuller and sweeter sound.
# Posted on May 22nd 2005 by Zub
Re: Fiddle tuning
I agree with KFG. Having the right strings can make a difference it sound, but in the end it really comes down to the musician. Your still a musician without your fiddle, and if you played another fiddle over the one you have now you would still be a musician.
# Posted on May 22nd 2005 by banana512
Re: Fiddle tuning
A common pitch for A used 200 or 300 years ago was about 415 (a semitone or half a step down on today's concert pitch of 440). Violins of the time were made with that old pitch in mind, so I'm not surprised that fiddles sound that much better and more resonant at the lower pitch. If you want to keep a second fiddle permanently at the lower pitch I think it will help if you use heavier gauge strings.
Trevor
# Posted on May 22nd 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddle tuning
I read that many of the old-timers in Clare liked to tune down a step or so - they didn't really care where they landed! - to mellow the tone a bit. Also in the liners of the Floating Bow Alun Evans says Johnny Doherty liked to tune down, in contrast to the modern mania for tuning up - the liners of the Danny Meehan record mention a fellow who tuned up some gawdawful amount, two whole steps or something, and he "was louder than a melodeon, but sweet."
# Posted on May 23rd 2005 by KLR
Re: Fiddle tuning
Conversely, if you tune up, perhaps you should use lighter gauge strings so that the pressure on the belly isn't too high.
Trevor
# Posted on May 23rd 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddle tuning
Coincidently, I tuned down on Friday to play with a piper in C. I love playing like that. It really does something to your approach. I left it tuned down and played on my own for awhile yesterday. I was contemplating getting another fiddle and leaving it in C. I sure wish the money tree was in bloom.
# Posted on May 23rd 2005 by Jode
Re: Fiddle tuning
Michael Tubridy says that the most common key in use in the Kilrush area in Co Clare was 'C'. The 20 button concertinas, Single row melodeons, most mouthorgans and the most common instrument - the Clarke's tin whistle was in 'C' so the fiddlers just strung along
# Posted on May 29th 2005 by Alancorsini