Forgive me. In fact, the pianist Barry Douglas is equally comfortable as concerto performer, recitalist, chamber musician, conductor and festival director; he is a passionate and imaginative musician. He enjoys a major international career which has developed worldwide since he won the Gold Medal at the Tchaikovsky International Piano Competition in Moscow in 1986. He is known for his performances of the large-scale Romantic repertoire particularly Brahms, Rachmaninov and Tchaikovsky and he also excels in less familiar repertoire such as those by Reger, Britten, Corigliano and Penderecki. Of a recent London recital, The Daily Telegraph wrote "his playing here served as a reminder of a style that is gripping but at the same time shot through with perceptive touches of colour and inflection." If you know what I mean.
Poor man! He looks miserable. It's stories like these that make me want to get involved in police work and detective stuff. I'll let you in on a secret of mine: When I was 15, I wanted to be a forensic scientist. Shhhhhhh! ;)
Hey, maybe if they let him spend time with some other musicians he'll open up. I volunteer! But seriously, it depresses me to see stories like this. It kinda' makes me want to give him a hug and tell him everything's going to be okay. And I'm not a huggy kinda' person!
Time Traveler. Suppose Michael Colemen appeared on a beach somewhere, disoriented and incapable of speech or written word, but played and danced just as in his finest years.
The latest news I saw was that the psychiatrists are trying to find out whether he is suffering from a psychiatric illness (and with respect, if that is the case then he'll need a bit more than hugs and sympathy), or a bad case of amnesia.
The interesting thing is that in cases like that the music part of the brain keeps going regardless.
If he can't be identified, and surely, by now if he's done any sort of public performing or has studied at one of the big music colleges he should have been, then perhaps he's one of that rare species - the reclusive self-taught virtuoso.
It further occurs to me that perhaps Piano Man's playing should be videoed (if it hasn't been already) so that his standard of playing can be assessed independently by real experts. The non-musician is not necessarily the best person to judge whether a musician's performance is of the greatest - we've all heard well-meant comments to that effect from punters sometimes at sessions
It doesn't sound like autism, although I have known people that are brilliant in one area, such as music or art, that are autistic. Its called "savant." Most autistic people would have sets of mannerisms that would indicate what was happening. Maybe he needs to be involved in as much piano playing as possible to draw him out more. I would certainly like to hear him play.
Why do people give a crap about this guy? Because he can play piano? There are so many poor souls out there that need our help...but shall never be recognized, because they beg instead of play piano.
It's all about the mysiqué. I was told once that to be a well known artist you had to have "mystiqué." I thought they said "mistake" and figured the way I play I'd soon be world famous.
If he is in fact a piano Virtuouso - then from what I can gather (I certainly am no expert on classical music) If he had learned it himself and was an unknown then I assume that would be pretty incredible.
Its an interesting story as jack says its all about the Mystique - if you find it a boring subject then nobody is forcing you to post on this particular thread.
The question no-one has yet asked is "Can he play jigs and reels"?
Perhaps he's that piano player on the Michael Coleman recordings who has been transported by the time lords to be punished for refusal to change key in the right places.
We need to be told.
Any time I'm found wandering around in a confused state in a wet suit (usually after a scuba session?) I just get pointed home and then sleep it off.
Maybe he's the next species to hit earth. A kind of chameleon, which adapts physical form similar to those surrounding him, and has come from one of the multiverses people are talking about.
Or else maybe he's just mental and when someone told him to shut up cos he's a crap singer, he did just that.
PS I wish he was a trad musician. That way we might get a bit of diddly on the mainstream airwaves, other than token gestures with the fleadh show once a year
The plot thickens. Apparently, all labels and other means of identification had been removed from his clothing (by whom?). He was found not all that far from the coast. There is a line of enquiry investigating whether he he has come from eastern Europe (well-known for its extraordinary virtuoso musicians). Experts are looking at his playing - and presumably what he plays - to see if that reveals anything about his origins.
BTW, I believe it can be argued that all virtuoso performers, and others at the higher levels of attainment, are self-taught, after they've got through the initial stages of being shown how to hold the instrument, etc, that is. When you get to a certain stage you don't need a teacher except occasionally as an independent set of ears and for advice, because by then you are at your own cutting edge of development and creativity, and you work things out for yourself – you are completely your own person. The reclusive self-taught virtuoso, although rare, is not therefore an impossibility.
I think we have to be careful here. Many performers can appear as "virtuosi" to non-musicians. I myself, when practising in front of the cat, often draw purrs of approval, even though she is less than knowledgable about rhythm, harmony, crans, etc. Also what does it mean that the people who heard him play couldn't "name that tune" but "knew it was classical music"?
Several years ago, I organised a folk gig with John and Phil Cunningham and one of my work colleagues commented that "It was very pleasant *Mood music* ".
So, I wouldn't place too much reliance on these listeners' opinion either. Hopefully, they will get an independent expert involved.
(de-lurking)
If you remember the case of Australian David Helfgott, this story seem eerily familiar. Helfgott too was hailed as a virtuoso, and toured around the world. But he was no longer a virtuoso, and many were dismayed to see him propped up on stage to make audiences enjoy a "success story." As music programmer for a radio station, i was sent the disc that accompanied the tour, and it was heartbreakingly awful. If this story is true, I think we have another seriously mentally ill man who finds solace in the piano. Let the story die, I say, and let the man recover out of the spotlight.
Cara, until more details come to light, your comments and suggestion may well come as close to the truth as we can expect. And, BTW, welcome to the forum!
It's not all that uncommon for performers of virtuoso standard in their youth to "lose" it and retire from public performance. The life of a concert pianist can be a tough and lonely one: endless travelling, living in hotels, having to produce the goods at all times on the platform (even if you're horrendously jet-lagged, faced with a strange piano with unknown quirks, a conductor and orchestra you've never seen before, let alone rehearsed with), and knowing full well that your reputation is only as good as your last performance. It's not surprising that a number of performers retire early from the concert platform and go into teaching or some other music-related activity.
Two rather extreme examples: the 19-c French virtuoso pianist Alkan (of whom Franz Liszt was in awe) retired very early and became a virtual recluse for the rest of his long life, teaching and composing - his works are still very much in the repertoire; the 20-c English virtuoso pianist Sorabji who also became a recluse, devoting his very long life to composing works of extraordinary length and difficulty. Apart from David Helfgott there are more recent examples, but I won't mention them because they're still alive.
Thanks for the welcome, Trevor. Krystian Zimerman performed in Kalamazoo in April. Now THERE is a man who won't suffer the burnout of many stars his age. He plays only handful of concerts a year, is fully engaged with his family, and continues to enthuse over various other interests. He may not be rich, but he's wiser than most. We were very, very lucky to have him play here. Great all-Chopin concert.
English pianist John Ogden died an early death while attempting a comeback after a descent into schizophrenia. I'm still amazed by his recordings before the illness.
Alkan and Sorabji are just on the edge of my awareness. (Always so much more to learn!) Thanks for the tip-- time for me to head to the record library.
Hey, I read on a fellow news page (CNN) that he isn't a virtuoso. He just is an accomplished amatuer who can play snippets of "Swan Lake" and other pieces from the Romantic period, I believe. But then, CNN could be totally wrong. That's why I really don't like the news very much. There are do many different oppinions that it can cause problems. I'm still puzzled at the fact that the tags were torn out of his clothes. That's really peculiar. /:[
Hi Celt, that was the same story in the Guardian (England) yesterday. But the man also played a lot of obscure pieces which are assumed to be his own. So CNN appear to have got it right too.
Well, if the story ran in Newsweek, they would have no credibility at all since that flushing the Koran down the toilet story started riots and got people killed. But I think it is safe to say the Muslims won't react in the same way to this story.
"I believe it can be argued that all virtuoso performers, and others at the higher levels of attainment, are self-taught, after they've got through the initial stages of being shown how to hold the instrument, etc"
I've always found that the instrument itself tells you how to hold it and play it. For the most part lessons just slow me down, because I can learn faster than I can be "taught." Interpreting the abstracted instruction takes far, far longer than to simply figure it out from scratch.
For me the music itself was really the only thing that needed to be "learned" in any formal sense, and even that only the formal bits since melody is "obvious", the rest is just patterning, and once you know the music you can apply it to any sort of mechanism for producing it. The fact that I was actually "trained" at piano has been nothing but a detriment for me to overcome.
I'm not laying claim to any musical virtuosity (except, perhaps, with voice, although my sightsinging is weak), I've already explicitly denied that, but there's no use denying that I have a pronounced "knack" for instruments themselves either.
And although there's no use denying it, because other people have been noting it since I was child, *I* never really understood it until I started teaching and came up against the hard fact that most people *do not* have a "knack" for instruments.
So I have developed a style of teaching that strives to teach people to teach themselves, because, so far as I've ever been able to determine, that's the only way to achieve any sort of advanced capabilities in a truely musical sense (although there are people who can be taught to "play" mechanistically to a high degree of proficiency, like a player piano. Take Kenny G. Please.)
And not just for music, if it comes to that. When I teach science I focus on teaching how to experiment and research, not "recite." Don't ask me about fish, *tell* me about fish.
"It's not all that uncommon for performers of virtuoso standard in their youth to "lose" it and retire from public performance. The life of a concert pianist can be a tough and lonely one: endless travelling, living in hotels, having to produce the goods at all times on the platform. . . "
And they can have that crap. I'm of a mind that if I were a vituoso I'd tend to hide the fact. The wise man knows to act the fool. I'd rather enjoy my music, and my life, thank you very much; and I have other interests and things to do than be a trained monkey on the stage.
In any case I don't think it's necessary that the gentleman in question here is someone who Andre Watts would recognize as a virtuoso. It is perfectly sufficient, given the whole silent stranger found under strange circumstances thingy, that he appears to be highly skilled to non musicians, and that that is a skill he will *show* when he refuses to simply speak.
So in that sense he is a virtuoso, no matter the quality of his playing. The music means more to him than anything else, and *that* is what makes his particular case intriguing. He is not just your run of mill psycho "nonparticipant." Whatever is wrong with him the music cuts through that and he can, and is willing to, function at a level of ability well above the norm, even if it's below the "elite" level. There's way too much focus on "virtuosity" as it is. Maybe that's his very issue.
In some sense it's a shame that he's under the care of "mental health professionals." He needs to be under the care of musicians. I teach a number of people with various mental dysfunctions and disabilities, including "borderline" autistics. If he's responsive at all I'd get through to him in time. It might take a few weeks, or a few months, but since we share a joint a passion and primary means of communication we'd be "chatting" along just fine sooner or later.
I'll only take Kenny G if I'm taking him to the airport for a destination far, far away. Preferably one without recording studios, radio, or TV. :-p
I do hope someone has the sense to work with this guy using the music. And that the poor beggar gets sorted out one way or another. If the pics of his face are anything to judge by, he's having a taste of hell.
Maybe he was locked up in a cellar until he learnt to play the piano and when he finally escaped, he got lost. His first words might be - "I gave Kaspar Hauser a leg up out of the cellar and the b@st@rd ran off without me"
I agree with you whole heartedly about Kenny G., fiddlemouse. Though a lot of people may like him, I guess I'm not one of them. I'll stick with Irish music (and guys). And I showed my mom this story last night and we both just started tearing up for the poor man. Call me emotional, call me hormonal..... the less said about me, the better. But anyway, my sister and I have been telling people about this guy and no one seems to really have heard of the story (people being our illustrious employer and grandma). Pretty pathetic, I should say. I really hope this gets resolved. Though I've had a slight emotional collapse (sort'a kinda') and hated every minute of the feeling I know it's no where CLOSE to what this man is going through!!!!! Hey, maybe they should try decoding his music for some sort of messages! I mean, he composed some of his own, didn't he? Just a thought.
Cara, a number of top rank pianists have made recordings of Alkan's music. In particular I'd recommend recordings of his Douze Études Op 39, especially the one by the late Ronald Smith. Alkan's compositions are listed on http://alkan.bluestealth.com/works.htm.
John Ogden recorded Sorabji's massive Opus Clavicembalisticum (all 3+ hrs of it!) not long before he passed away – perhaps a case of one genius interacting with another. I may be wrong, but I suspect that that is the only extant recording of that particular work, although Sorabji's Organ Symphonies (almost as long) have more recently been recorded on the organ in Bristol's St Mary Redcliffe Church. I once saw the score of the Opus Clavicembalisticum; in order to accommodate his extremely advanced musical ideas Sorabji often found it necessary to use up to 5 staves and special clefs in the score - well within Ogden's sight-reading capabilities.
I dont know about you guys, but maybe all the labels have been torn from his clothes so they cant pinpoint where they were made and where he is from. Sounds like he could even been an asylum seeker who either a) fell off a boat or b) jumped off a boat. You cant very well send an asylum seeker home if you dont know where their home is.
I agree with bb.... this is one weird case... it could be that his parents have abandoned him, and clipped the labels from his clothes so they couldn't be traced to their home town or at least their region.
I think he's like 30 years old or something..so I think abandoned by his parents is not the angle - I say - he's a perfectly sane asylum seeker who knows he cant be sent home if they dont know where he is from. I am such a cynic.
If he's got mental issues it could easily be that he's been in his parents care all this time and they've expended their life savings on his care, and finally been forced to let society deal with him.
On the other hand, if he is faking it, I'll gladly hold him while you hit him.
This just in off the wires: A Polish mime artist has identified the mysterious mute pianist found wandering on a British beach as a French musician from Nice, Rome police said Wednesday.
The Polish street performer came forward after British police issued an appeal across Europe for information about the piano player who was found wandering, soaked and confused on a beach in southern England on April 7.
"This Polish mime artist told us he recognized the pianist as a Frenchman with whom he worked in Nice a few years ago," a Rome police spokesman said. "Of course, all of this still has to be checked through Interpol."
The Polish performer, Darius Dydymski, 33, identified the pianist as Steve Masson, aged about 25.
"He worked with me in the streets of Nice, where he lives with his family and his brothers," Dydymski was quoted as saying by the daily La Repubblica.
British police were sifting through hundreds of responses after they issued an appeal for information about the young, blond-haired man, who was being kept under observation at a mental health hospital.
He has not spoken, he has declined to respond to written appeals and all the labels in his black suit and white shirt were removed, giving investigators nothing to work on in seeking his identity.
But social workers at the hospital said he appeared to be a brilliant classical musician, judging from his renditions on a piano in the hospital's chapel.
"Sometimes we worked together in Nice. After four or five hours, I stopped to rest, but not him," Dydymski told the Corriere della Sera newspaper. "He never stopped playing the piano. Apart from French, he spoke English very well."
“In some sense it’s a shame that he’s under the care of “mental health professionals”. He needs to be under the care of musicians.”
KFG is here sending out very much the wrong message. Leaving aside what appears to be a snide comment on the psychiatric medical profession it is important to understand that before putting “under care” someone in Piano Man’s position it is essential that a full clinical assessment of his condition be carried out – which can only be done by said “mental health professionals” – to determine whether there is any underlying physical cause for his problem (a lesion or chemical imbalance in the brain, for example), and carrying out appropriate treatment before embarking on after-care.
I’d also say that a musician, or anyone else for that matter, who isn’t appropriately trained isn’t an ideal person to undertake such psychiatric after-care, however good the intentions.
So the mime and the mute pianist have never spoken to each other before ? That makes sense.
Reminds me of those old Kurt Vonnegut stories where an alien would come to earth with urgent messages about an imminent destruction, but because he could only express himself through tap dancing, nobody took him seriously.
LOL @ Cath! By the way I completely agree with Trevor, but Trevor, you have to take into account that in the afore-mentioned clinical assessment it may be required that the filamentary diagnostic anulism of the patient in question (who may or may not have succumbed to the diadatric suspension of TSX solvent comprising 0.002 microspectres of amylpectonitrate, plus a measured amount of pepyltrichloromethynate C appropriate to the patient's condition) be overridden.
LOL but Tish she does have a point. I mean, a beach in Kent, wet clothes, obviously foreign... what other conclusion would you arrive at? At least he's being taken care of. If it happened on the shores of sunny, friendly, multicultural, welcoming Australia, he would have been herded into a detention camp in the middle of buttfeck nowhere, mental illness or no, like what happened to that poor woman recently.
Well I think you're totally out of order for suggesting that Beebs might be working for such a cruel and heartless institution. The workers there must all be complete freakos.
But I'm looking at this mountain of brain-numbing scheidt I have to wade through before they let me get on the plane
Have been following the piano man at the BBC website and I do hope they sort it all out soon - an unhappy story, whether or not he's "legit", whatever that might mean in the circumstances.
hiya, me new here....I'm compelled by this story. They should have someone doing a blog on this...considering people are nosey enough to follow private stories like a hawk. I'm pretty open minded, and also a cynic so I'm not totally ruling out a very good stunt, but I do figure he'd have to be the best actor ever to exist if he can maintain consistency for over a month under the 24h watch you have in mental hospitals - but anything's possible. To be honest, the fact he plays piano isn't an issue, or how well (to answer the person who was miffed at the interest JUST because he plays the piano well), but more the fact he's in the midst of strangers, understandably frightened, but the fact he has no problem to play the piano in front of them....almost like he shuts everyone out, the world doesn't exist - just the piano and him. For someone to be able to manipulate such psychological changes with consistency to a tee would be pretty incredible (not to mention a complete prat) so I go with the fact he's traumatised by something or an illness like Autism (if it hasn't been ruled out).
One thing though - I've been reading numerous threads on this guy, and am I the only one that can find a justification for getting rid of all labels and ID?? I've been through some really heavy bouts of depression to the point I wanted to walk into a crowd, get rid of everything that could identify me so I become lost, a nobody - because if you're a nobody, then you're almost free of everything and everyone except your own mind...which is the only thing you can't escape from unfortunately. The idea of how liberating it can be to get rid of everything that connects you to the word, well, I'd cut my labels if I fell that low.
As pointless an exercise as this is, any psychological mystery fascinates me.
The case is solved. Apparently he is a gay German who just lost a job in Paris before coming to England by train. He was planning to end his life when he was found at the beach. He had formerly work at a psychiatric establishment and with the knowledge absorbed there he managed to fake his mental condition. The hospital is considering a lawsuit against him for the amount of money he cost them while faking his condition.
The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Has anyone been following this story?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4550069.stm
I really hope the guy gets sorted out.
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
I reckon its an elaborate deception.He`s hoping to be the next Barry Douglas without the boring years of struggle and hunger.
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by cos
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
What if he had been a virtuoso bodhran player? How would they know?
Seriously though, I hope he'll be O.K.
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
He doesn't look a bit like Barry Douglas.
And it's not often you hear on this site that playing music is boring...though it is often a struggle.
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Er..who's Barry Douglas? Any relation to Barry Cryer?
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by pfft
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
He's an Irish pianist and conductor, I believe.
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
No, no, Barry Cryer's an erudite comedy writer and well-known wit, Danny.
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by pfft
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
ha ha ha....
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Forgive me. In fact, the pianist Barry Douglas is equally comfortable as concerto performer, recitalist, chamber musician, conductor and festival director; he is a passionate and imaginative musician. He enjoys a major international career which has developed worldwide since he won the Gold Medal at the Tchaikovsky International Piano Competition in Moscow in 1986. He is known for his performances of the large-scale Romantic repertoire particularly Brahms, Rachmaninov and Tchaikovsky and he also excels in less familiar repertoire such as those by Reger, Britten, Corigliano and Penderecki. Of a recent London recital, The Daily Telegraph wrote "his playing here served as a reminder of a style that is gripping but at the same time shot through with perceptive touches of colour and inflection." If you know what I mean.
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by pfft
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Definitely not yer man. He hasn't opened his gob since he was found wandering on the beach.
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Maybe he's autistic? But I gues the mental health experts would have been able to determine if that were the case?
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by Andee
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Poor man! He looks miserable. It's stories like these that make me want to get involved in police work and detective stuff. I'll let you in on a secret of mine: When I was 15, I wanted to be a forensic scientist. Shhhhhhh! ;)
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by The Celt
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Hey, maybe if they let him spend time with some other musicians he'll open up. I volunteer! But seriously, it depresses me to see stories like this. It kinda' makes me want to give him a hug and tell him everything's going to be okay. And I'm not a huggy kinda' person!
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by The Celt
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Time traveller?
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by pfft
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Could be.....
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by The Celt
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
It gave me a shock seeing myself on the news. I hadn't seen that photo, not one of my best.
Barry Douglas also plays the bodhran.
And John J. If he had been a virtuoso bodhran they would have known. You can tell by the aura surrounding such species.
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Time Traveler. Suppose Michael Colemen appeared on a beach somewhere, disoriented and incapable of speech or written word, but played and danced just as in his finest years.
What would we do with him?
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by grego
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Well - I'd make him a cup of tea and get him some dry clothes. (And be very tempted to keep him all to myself.)
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by kris
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
The latest news I saw was that the psychiatrists are trying to find out whether he is suffering from a psychiatric illness (and with respect, if that is the case then he'll need a bit more than hugs and sympathy), or a bad case of amnesia.
The interesting thing is that in cases like that the music part of the brain keeps going regardless.
If he can't be identified, and surely, by now if he's done any sort of public performing or has studied at one of the big music colleges he should have been, then perhaps he's one of that rare species - the reclusive self-taught virtuoso.
Trevor
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
It further occurs to me that perhaps Piano Man's playing should be videoed (if it hasn't been already) so that his standard of playing can be assessed independently by real experts. The non-musician is not necessarily the best person to judge whether a musician's performance is of the greatest - we've all heard well-meant comments to that effect from punters sometimes at sessions
Trevor
# Posted on May 16th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
True.
Remember that punters love bodhran players.
What can we expect from social workers?
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Beheader
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
It doesn't sound like autism, although I have known people that are brilliant in one area, such as music or art, that are autistic. Its called "savant." Most autistic people would have sets of mannerisms that would indicate what was happening. Maybe he needs to be involved in as much piano playing as possible to draw him out more. I would certainly like to hear him play.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
"What can we expect from social workers?"
Pain in the arse meddling?
"Exuse me, but are you meddling?"
"No, but if you hum a few bars of each I'll fake it."
KFG
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by KFG
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Why do people give a crap about this guy? Because he can play piano? There are so many poor souls out there that need our help...but shall never be recognized, because they beg instead of play piano.
I feel bad about his guy...but...?
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Pete D
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Cause its a really bizarre story Pete. Dont you think its weird? Which makes it interesting.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by bb
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
And because he is "crazy" does it mean that he deserves more attention that somebody else who plays just as good or even better?
How many unkown virtuosi live in oblivion all their live?
Isn't it a feeling of pity for this guy what grabs the attention rather than his actual musical skills?
If he was "normal" would we be talking about him right now, or would he just be another piano player?
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Beheader
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
It's all about the mysiqué. I was told once that to be a well known artist you had to have "mystiqué." I thought they said "mistake" and figured the way I play I'd soon be world famous.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
If he is in fact a piano Virtuouso - then from what I can gather (I certainly am no expert on classical music) If he had learned it himself and was an unknown then I assume that would be pretty incredible.
Its an interesting story as jack says its all about the Mystique - if you find it a boring subject then nobody is forcing you to post on this particular thread.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by bb
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
The question no-one has yet asked is "Can he play jigs and reels"?
Perhaps he's that piano player on the Michael Coleman recordings who has been transported by the time lords to be punished for refusal to change key in the right places.
We need to be told.
Any time I'm found wandering around in a confused state in a wet suit (usually after a scuba session?) I just get pointed home and then sleep it off.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
I wonder what tune he played? "Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered" possibly.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by RichardB
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Maybe he's the next species to hit earth. A kind of chameleon, which adapts physical form similar to those surrounding him, and has come from one of the multiverses people are talking about.
Or else maybe he's just mental and when someone told him to shut up cos he's a crap singer, he did just that.
PS I wish he was a trad musician. That way we might get a bit of diddly on the mainstream airwaves, other than token gestures with the fleadh show once a year
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by copo24
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
They say he played very well for two hours but no one could recognise the music.
Obviously a set of reels.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Bren
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
The plot thickens. Apparently, all labels and other means of identification had been removed from his clothing (by whom?). He was found not all that far from the coast. There is a line of enquiry investigating whether he he has come from eastern Europe (well-known for its extraordinary virtuoso musicians). Experts are looking at his playing - and presumably what he plays - to see if that reveals anything about his origins.
BTW, I believe it can be argued that all virtuoso performers, and others at the higher levels of attainment, are self-taught, after they've got through the initial stages of being shown how to hold the instrument, etc, that is. When you get to a certain stage you don't need a teacher except occasionally as an independent set of ears and for advice, because by then you are at your own cutting edge of development and creativity, and you work things out for yourself – you are completely your own person. The reclusive self-taught virtuoso, although rare, is not therefore an impossibility.
Trevor
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Could be an elaborate publicity stunt I suppose. If not I hope he gets sorted out.
Either way if he makes a CD he'll do OK out of it.
Just my thoughts.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by curlew
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Oops sorry 'cos' just seen your post when I re-read.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by curlew
Re: The Mysterious Case of Bodhran Man
The piano-man can't be a goat-beater as we are told he "comes to life" when playing.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
I think we have to be careful here. Many performers can appear as "virtuosi" to non-musicians. I myself, when practising in front of the cat, often draw purrs of approval, even though she is less than knowledgable about rhythm, harmony, crans, etc. Also what does it mean that the people who heard him play couldn't "name that tune" but "knew it was classical music"?
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by pfft
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Several years ago, I organised a folk gig with John and Phil Cunningham and one of my work colleagues commented that "It was very pleasant *Mood music* ".
So, I wouldn't place too much reliance on these listeners' opinion either. Hopefully, they will get an independent expert involved.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
(de-lurking)
If you remember the case of Australian David Helfgott, this story seem eerily familiar. Helfgott too was hailed as a virtuoso, and toured around the world. But he was no longer a virtuoso, and many were dismayed to see him propped up on stage to make audiences enjoy a "success story." As music programmer for a radio station, i was sent the disc that accompanied the tour, and it was heartbreakingly awful. If this story is true, I think we have another seriously mentally ill man who finds solace in the piano. Let the story die, I say, and let the man recover out of the spotlight.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Myappletree
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
JohnJ, I agree entirely. It's the opinion of your fellow musicians that matters.
Trevor
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Cara, until more details come to light, your comments and suggestion may well come as close to the truth as we can expect. And, BTW, welcome to the forum!
It's not all that uncommon for performers of virtuoso standard in their youth to "lose" it and retire from public performance. The life of a concert pianist can be a tough and lonely one: endless travelling, living in hotels, having to produce the goods at all times on the platform (even if you're horrendously jet-lagged, faced with a strange piano with unknown quirks, a conductor and orchestra you've never seen before, let alone rehearsed with), and knowing full well that your reputation is only as good as your last performance. It's not surprising that a number of performers retire early from the concert platform and go into teaching or some other music-related activity.
Two rather extreme examples: the 19-c French virtuoso pianist Alkan (of whom Franz Liszt was in awe) retired very early and became a virtual recluse for the rest of his long life, teaching and composing - his works are still very much in the repertoire; the 20-c English virtuoso pianist Sorabji who also became a recluse, devoting his very long life to composing works of extraordinary length and difficulty. Apart from David Helfgott there are more recent examples, but I won't mention them because they're still alive.
Trevor
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Thanks for the welcome, Trevor. Krystian Zimerman performed in Kalamazoo in April. Now THERE is a man who won't suffer the burnout of many stars his age. He plays only handful of concerts a year, is fully engaged with his family, and continues to enthuse over various other interests. He may not be rich, but he's wiser than most. We were very, very lucky to have him play here. Great all-Chopin concert.
English pianist John Ogden died an early death while attempting a comeback after a descent into schizophrenia. I'm still amazed by his recordings before the illness.
Alkan and Sorabji are just on the edge of my awareness. (Always so much more to learn!) Thanks for the tip-- time for me to head to the record library.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Myappletree
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Pingu: The news here in the U.S. picked up this story this morning. Is someone here a U.S. reporter in disguise? Jack?
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Turns out he is Bin Laden, got fed up living with George on his ranch.
As a "rare" vituosi (mafiosi) send him to me and I will give the definitive view on his playing.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Hey, I read on a fellow news page (CNN) that he isn't a virtuoso. He just is an accomplished amatuer who can play snippets of "Swan Lake" and other pieces from the Romantic period, I believe. But then, CNN could be totally wrong. That's why I really don't like the news very much. There are do many different oppinions that it can cause problems. I'm still puzzled at the fact that the tags were torn out of his clothes. That's really peculiar. /:[
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by The Celt
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Hi Celt, that was the same story in the Guardian (England) yesterday. But the man also played a lot of obscure pieces which are assumed to be his own. So CNN appear to have got it right too.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Cath
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
CNN:
Not a viruoso?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/05/17/pianoman.ap/index.html
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Pete D
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Well, if the story ran in Newsweek, they would have no credibility at all since that flushing the Koran down the toilet story started riots and got people killed. But I think it is safe to say the Muslims won't react in the same way to this story.
Jack: asleep at the ol' keyboard again.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Obscure pieces, Cath? Then surely the man is a genius, far ahead of his time, like Damien Hirst or Tracey Emin in another field.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by pfft
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
"I believe it can be argued that all virtuoso performers, and others at the higher levels of attainment, are self-taught, after they've got through the initial stages of being shown how to hold the instrument, etc"
I've always found that the instrument itself tells you how to hold it and play it. For the most part lessons just slow me down, because I can learn faster than I can be "taught." Interpreting the abstracted instruction takes far, far longer than to simply figure it out from scratch.
For me the music itself was really the only thing that needed to be "learned" in any formal sense, and even that only the formal bits since melody is "obvious", the rest is just patterning, and once you know the music you can apply it to any sort of mechanism for producing it. The fact that I was actually "trained" at piano has been nothing but a detriment for me to overcome.
I'm not laying claim to any musical virtuosity (except, perhaps, with voice, although my sightsinging is weak), I've already explicitly denied that, but there's no use denying that I have a pronounced "knack" for instruments themselves either.
And although there's no use denying it, because other people have been noting it since I was child, *I* never really understood it until I started teaching and came up against the hard fact that most people *do not* have a "knack" for instruments.
So I have developed a style of teaching that strives to teach people to teach themselves, because, so far as I've ever been able to determine, that's the only way to achieve any sort of advanced capabilities in a truely musical sense (although there are people who can be taught to "play" mechanistically to a high degree of proficiency, like a player piano. Take Kenny G. Please.)
And not just for music, if it comes to that. When I teach science I focus on teaching how to experiment and research, not "recite." Don't ask me about fish, *tell* me about fish.
"It's not all that uncommon for performers of virtuoso standard in their youth to "lose" it and retire from public performance. The life of a concert pianist can be a tough and lonely one: endless travelling, living in hotels, having to produce the goods at all times on the platform. . . "
And they can have that crap. I'm of a mind that if I were a vituoso I'd tend to hide the fact. The wise man knows to act the fool. I'd rather enjoy my music, and my life, thank you very much; and I have other interests and things to do than be a trained monkey on the stage.
In any case I don't think it's necessary that the gentleman in question here is someone who Andre Watts would recognize as a virtuoso. It is perfectly sufficient, given the whole silent stranger found under strange circumstances thingy, that he appears to be highly skilled to non musicians, and that that is a skill he will *show* when he refuses to simply speak.
So in that sense he is a virtuoso, no matter the quality of his playing. The music means more to him than anything else, and *that* is what makes his particular case intriguing. He is not just your run of mill psycho "nonparticipant." Whatever is wrong with him the music cuts through that and he can, and is willing to, function at a level of ability well above the norm, even if it's below the "elite" level. There's way too much focus on "virtuosity" as it is. Maybe that's his very issue.
In some sense it's a shame that he's under the care of "mental health professionals." He needs to be under the care of musicians. I teach a number of people with various mental dysfunctions and disabilities, including "borderline" autistics. If he's responsive at all I'd get through to him in time. It might take a few weeks, or a few months, but since we share a joint a passion and primary means of communication we'd be "chatting" along just fine sooner or later.
Other stuff would naturally follow after that.
They need to get a session going in the hospital.
KFG
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by KFG
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
I'll only take Kenny G if I'm taking him to the airport for a destination far, far away. Preferably one without recording studios, radio, or TV. :-p
I do hope someone has the sense to work with this guy using the music. And that the poor beggar gets sorted out one way or another. If the pics of his face are anything to judge by, he's having a taste of hell.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by sara g
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Well, all we know for sure about the piano man is that he's too young to be Lord Lucan
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Cath
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Maybe he was locked up in a cellar until he learnt to play the piano and when he finally escaped, he got lost. His first words might be - "I gave Kaspar Hauser a leg up out of the cellar and the b@st@rd ran off without me"
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by Cath
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
I agree with you whole heartedly about Kenny G., fiddlemouse. Though a lot of people may like him, I guess I'm not one of them. I'll stick with Irish music (and guys). And I showed my mom this story last night and we both just started tearing up for the poor man. Call me emotional, call me hormonal..... the less said about me, the better. But anyway, my sister and I have been telling people about this guy and no one seems to really have heard of the story (people being our illustrious employer and grandma). Pretty pathetic, I should say. I really hope this gets resolved. Though I've had a slight emotional collapse (sort'a kinda') and hated every minute of the feeling I know it's no where CLOSE to what this man is going through!!!!! Hey, maybe they should try decoding his music for some sort of messages! I mean, he composed some of his own, didn't he? Just a thought.
# Posted on May 17th 2005 by The Celt
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Cara, a number of top rank pianists have made recordings of Alkan's music. In particular I'd recommend recordings of his Douze Études Op 39, especially the one by the late Ronald Smith. Alkan's compositions are listed on http://alkan.bluestealth.com/works.htm.
John Ogden recorded Sorabji's massive Opus Clavicembalisticum (all 3+ hrs of it!) not long before he passed away – perhaps a case of one genius interacting with another. I may be wrong, but I suspect that that is the only extant recording of that particular work, although Sorabji's Organ Symphonies (almost as long) have more recently been recorded on the organ in Bristol's St Mary Redcliffe Church. I once saw the score of the Opus Clavicembalisticum; in order to accommodate his extremely advanced musical ideas Sorabji often found it necessary to use up to 5 staves and special clefs in the score - well within Ogden's sight-reading capabilities.
Trevor
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
I dont know about you guys, but maybe all the labels have been torn from his clothes so they cant pinpoint where they were made and where he is from. Sounds like he could even been an asylum seeker who either a) fell off a boat or b) jumped off a boat. You cant very well send an asylum seeker home if you dont know where their home is.
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by bb
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
I agree with bb.... this is one weird case... it could be that his parents have abandoned him, and clipped the labels from his clothes so they couldn't be traced to their home town or at least their region.
Pretty sad all the way 'round.
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by Tunes!
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
I think he's like 30 years old or something..so I think abandoned by his parents is not the angle - I say - he's a perfectly sane asylum seeker who knows he cant be sent home if they dont know where he is from. I am such a cynic.
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by bb
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
If he's got mental issues it could easily be that he's been in his parents care all this time and they've expended their life savings on his care, and finally been forced to let society deal with him.
On the other hand, if he is faking it, I'll gladly hold him while you hit him.
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by Tunes!
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
That's a bit extreme!
What's the guy done to you Tunes! ?
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by Cath
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
I think Tunes needs a hug.
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
This just in off the wires: A Polish mime artist has identified the mysterious mute pianist found wandering on a British beach as a French musician from Nice, Rome police said Wednesday.
The Polish street performer came forward after British police issued an appeal across Europe for information about the piano player who was found wandering, soaked and confused on a beach in southern England on April 7.
"This Polish mime artist told us he recognized the pianist as a Frenchman with whom he worked in Nice a few years ago," a Rome police spokesman said. "Of course, all of this still has to be checked through Interpol."
The Polish performer, Darius Dydymski, 33, identified the pianist as Steve Masson, aged about 25.
"He worked with me in the streets of Nice, where he lives with his family and his brothers," Dydymski was quoted as saying by the daily La Repubblica.
British police were sifting through hundreds of responses after they issued an appeal for information about the young, blond-haired man, who was being kept under observation at a mental health hospital.
He has not spoken, he has declined to respond to written appeals and all the labels in his black suit and white shirt were removed, giving investigators nothing to work on in seeking his identity.
But social workers at the hospital said he appeared to be a brilliant classical musician, judging from his renditions on a piano in the hospital's chapel.
"Sometimes we worked together in Nice. After four or five hours, I stopped to rest, but not him," Dydymski told the Corriere della Sera newspaper. "He never stopped playing the piano. Apart from French, he spoke English very well."
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by Q
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
“In some sense it’s a shame that he’s under the care of “mental health professionals”. He needs to be under the care of musicians.”
KFG is here sending out very much the wrong message. Leaving aside what appears to be a snide comment on the psychiatric medical profession it is important to understand that before putting “under care” someone in Piano Man’s position it is essential that a full clinical assessment of his condition be carried out – which can only be done by said “mental health professionals” – to determine whether there is any underlying physical cause for his problem (a lesion or chemical imbalance in the brain, for example), and carrying out appropriate treatment before embarking on after-care.
I’d also say that a musician, or anyone else for that matter, who isn’t appropriately trained isn’t an ideal person to undertake such psychiatric after-care, however good the intentions.
Trevor
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Update from the wires: Piano man is not Steve Masson. Cops not surprised, saying the mime shouldn't have spoken to them in the first place.
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by Q
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
But if there are no labels on his clothes - how will he wash them at the right temperature. Oh no!
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by pfft
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
*splorf*
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by Q
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
So the mime and the mute pianist have never spoken to each other before ? That makes sense.
Reminds me of those old Kurt Vonnegut stories where an alien would come to earth with urgent messages about an imminent destruction, but because he could only express himself through tap dancing, nobody took him seriously.
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by Cath
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
And Max, his suit may have been 'dry clean' only, in which case, he may have been depressed that it got ruined with rainwater.
# Posted on May 18th 2005 by Cath
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
LOL @ Cath! By the way I completely agree with Trevor, but Trevor, you have to take into account that in the afore-mentioned clinical assessment it may be required that the filamentary diagnostic anulism of the patient in question (who may or may not have succumbed to the diadatric suspension of TSX solvent comprising 0.002 microspectres of amylpectonitrate, plus a measured amount of pepyltrichloromethynate C appropriate to the patient's condition) be overridden.
# Posted on May 19th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
And that's spectre as in the metric measurement, not imperial.
# Posted on May 19th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Tut, tut, bb, such heartless cynicism in one so young. Anyone would think you worked for the Australian immigration department.
# Posted on May 19th 2005 by Tish
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
LOL but Tish she does have a point. I mean, a beach in Kent, wet clothes, obviously foreign... what other conclusion would you arrive at? At least he's being taken care of. If it happened on the shores of sunny, friendly, multicultural, welcoming Australia, he would have been herded into a detention camp in the middle of buttfeck nowhere, mental illness or no, like what happened to that poor woman recently.
# Posted on May 19th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Yes, that's kinda what I'm getting at
# Posted on May 19th 2005 by Tish
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Well I think you're totally out of order for suggesting that Beebs might be working for such a cruel and heartless institution. The workers there must all be complete freakos.
# Posted on May 19th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Ahahahaa. You two are very witty.
# Posted on May 19th 2005 by bb
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Sorry, beebs. It's a bad day at the office.
# Posted on May 19th 2005 by Tish
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Sounds Shocking "Hi Tish - youre off to London for a month"
# Posted on May 19th 2005 by bb
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Yes. I know!
But I'm looking at this mountain of brain-numbing scheidt I have to wade through before they let me get on the plane
Have been following the piano man at the BBC website and I do hope they sort it all out soon - an unhappy story, whether or not he's "legit", whatever that might mean in the circumstances.
# Posted on May 19th 2005 by Tish
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
You want brain numbing - you should do my job....and we dont even get paid nothing or nothing.
# Posted on May 19th 2005 by bb
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
"Darius Dydymski" sounds suspiciously like a bodhran beat.
DAH-ri-us Dyd-DYM-ski
# Posted on May 19th 2005 by Bren
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
Could it be Jack Gilder? Then he tried to throw everyone of the scent by inventing the "Bodhran Man". I thought that was too much of a coincidence.
And I mean, who knows what Jack looks like.
# Posted on May 20th 2005 by bodhran bliss
What Jack looks like: http://www.scotlandcounty.net/images/dancing%20santa.gif
# Posted on May 20th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
The scary part is Jack - that its true
# Posted on May 20th 2005 by bb
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
HAHAHAHA!
Ow. I just schloosched up some hot coffee through my nose.
# Posted on May 20th 2005 by Dr. Dow
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
hiya, me new here....I'm compelled by this story. They should have someone doing a blog on this...considering people are nosey enough to follow private stories like a hawk. I'm pretty open minded, and also a cynic so I'm not totally ruling out a very good stunt, but I do figure he'd have to be the best actor ever to exist if he can maintain consistency for over a month under the 24h watch you have in mental hospitals - but anything's possible. To be honest, the fact he plays piano isn't an issue, or how well (to answer the person who was miffed at the interest JUST because he plays the piano well), but more the fact he's in the midst of strangers, understandably frightened, but the fact he has no problem to play the piano in front of them....almost like he shuts everyone out, the world doesn't exist - just the piano and him. For someone to be able to manipulate such psychological changes with consistency to a tee would be pretty incredible (not to mention a complete prat) so I go with the fact he's traumatised by something or an illness like Autism (if it hasn't been ruled out).
One thing though - I've been reading numerous threads on this guy, and am I the only one that can find a justification for getting rid of all labels and ID?? I've been through some really heavy bouts of depression to the point I wanted to walk into a crowd, get rid of everything that could identify me so I become lost, a nobody - because if you're a nobody, then you're almost free of everything and everyone except your own mind...which is the only thing you can't escape from unfortunately. The idea of how liberating it can be to get rid of everything that connects you to the word, well, I'd cut my labels if I fell that low.
As pointless an exercise as this is, any psychological mystery fascinates me.
The Hippster
# Posted on May 23rd 2005 by hippopotty
Re: The Mysterious Case of Piano Man
The case is solved. Apparently he is a gay German who just lost a job in Paris before coming to England by train. He was planning to end his life when he was found at the beach. He had formerly work at a psychiatric establishment and with the knowledge absorbed there he managed to fake his mental condition. The hospital is considering a lawsuit against him for the amount of money he cost them while faking his condition.
# Posted on August 22nd 2005 by Ingrid