Comments

Session or Solo

Session or Solo

Had the good fortune to see Patrick Street in Whelans last night, an amazing combination of talent.

In an article a couple of days ago Kevin Burke is quoted as saying: "I started to realise that most people who listen to Irish music today, especially in US, have probably forgotten, if indeed they ever knew, that 40 years ago, when I was developing my musical interests, this kind of music was typically played unaccompanied.”

Do you think you’d be play this music as much if there was no sessions, if it was purly solo and unaccompanied?
Not that I don’t like to hear solo fiddle or flute, but I think one of the strengths and the draws of this music is the session, playing off each other..along with the fun of playing with each other.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by BegF

Re: Session or Solo

Duh! He meant with no strummers, not on his own.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by ...

Re: Session or Solo

Even so, it's not that long ago that it was played mainly solo.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by BegF

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Duh to you !!!

Here's the full quote:

"Solo concerts have also been occupying a good portion of my time lately," he says.

"I started to realise that most people who listen to Irish music today, especially in US, have probably forgotten, if indeed they ever knew, that 40 years ago, when I was developing my musical interests, this kind of music was typically played unaccompanied.

"The great groups of the 1970s and 1980s brought a style of instrumentation and arrangement to the fore which has become 'the standard' but I thought it might be interesting for many to be reminded of what it was that inspired those bands before they felt moved to bring it to a wider audience."

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by BegF

Re: Session or Solo

I've seen Kevin Burke play solo fiddle, and solo means on his own. He was great of course, but I' rather hear at least two instruments. Fiddle and whisle, fiddle and guitar, two fiddles, whistle and bodhran (you don't know how good it is until you've heard it), etc...

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Cath

Re: Session or Solo

Where is the word "solo" in the quote? He says "unacompanied"

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by ...

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BegF wrote it on his second contribution.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Cath

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Oh yeah, first line, first word, my oppologies

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by ...

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No, no...first line first word is "Duh"

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by BegF

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oppologies?

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Cath

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Even if it might sound as good with solo playing as groups, I think that one of the main things that makes irish music so popular, is that playing it will often be combined with something social. You make new friends in the pubs while you`re playing sessions, you go to summerschools and festivals and have a great time there. The memories of these social happenings make you want to practise even more, and it makes you feel good because it`s not only about the music alone. Summerschools, festivals and sessions also make you want to improve, because everybody inspires eachother. The really good musicians inspire the less excperienced ones, and the already good musicians inspire eachother and will be more and more inspired while experience the great things that happen when the music just flows.


# Posted on April 29th 2005 by ceolina

Re: Session or Solo

Why was it played solo or unaccompanied?
Duh. :-)
I realise that these are two different things, by the way!
I'd imagine that the old players had less opportunity to play with other musicians except on special occasions but this no longer applies.

However, I do like to hear solo fiddle playing or, perhaps, just two or three instruments together.

Sessions don't necessarily mean people "playing together", although this is the norm for Irish sessions. In Cape Breton, a musician will play a tune while others listen. Then, someone else has a go. I'm not sure about this idea. It's a bit too much like the "circle of death" scenario but it is apparently the tradition over there.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Johnny Jay

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I wouldn't play in public if there was only solo playing. I wouldn't have the brass neck.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Conán McDonnell

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Ah Conan, you're a right shrinking violet aren't you :-)

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Cath

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I'm fine with 10 guitarists, 8 bodhrán players and a French fiddle player in the mix; otherwise I go to pieces :)

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Conán McDonnell

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What no shaky eggs with that? Un oeuf is enough I s'pose.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Cath

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Have to agree strongly that the social aspect of playing together is one of the great attractions of trad. A bit of solo playing is fine and most sessions invite musicians at different stages of the night to "give us a tune" - but solo musicians all night, no thanks!!

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Bannerman

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I saw him play solo, at the edinburgh folk club. It was very nice, and he is really good, but its something i would only like to see once. takes a great deal of concentration for an adolescent mind to sit through that and not get a little bored. Hes probably just doing it because the money is much better, it must be a bit lonely touring solo.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by aye

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I played with a French fiddler called Vincent, I think, last year. He was really good.
oppologies if this is irrelevant.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Ottery

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oppologies accepted - I wish I was a really good French fiddler too :-)

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Cath

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Thankfully, Michael, there are many more people interested in traditional music than adolescents.

Don't you think the rest of us might get a bit bored with too much "in your face" stuff with aggressive arrangements all the time.

This isn't a dig at you Mike, by the way. I really enjoy hearing you play and I think that you with Ali on keyboards make a great combination.

Hope the weather's nice in Nairn today! :-)

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Johnny Jay

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yeah but what about singing? solo or accompanied?

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by phiddle

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Careful now!

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Cath

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i'm not digging at the solo fiddle playing either john, just explaning that as a restless young person, its not to my taste.

So we'll be seeing you on the 8th at the wee folk club will we? i'm making my debut on guitar, hoho!
I do have several solo fiddle bits in our repertoire, as well as Ali's several solo piano, a good mix is best i think john!

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by aye

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oh, its sunny, but windy.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by aye

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Kevin calls it "naked fiddle." He did an album back in the early 70's with a majority of solo tracks, "If the Cap Fits." Most of the tracks were reissued as "Sweeney's Dream." What can I say? Kevin is absolutely awesome doing naked fiddle.

Like American Traditional Music, I think the basic nature of the music has changed. Before you had one, two or three people entertaining a pub for the fun of it or with a hat out. It has grown into sessions, groups, CDs, big name groups with big contracts, concerts, amplified performances, and music festivals. I like the tradition, but I also like music as an on-going, living process of musical creativity. The only thing I don't like about what's happening currently to some extent is snobbery, as if ITM could be perfectly defined at some point in history, and thereafter no creativity is ever allowed.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by CeolCairdeas

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I need both, but if I had to choose between a world with only solo and one with only “standard” bands, I’d go with the solo world. At least that’s my feeling at this point in my life. Twenty years ago, I leaned the other way.

Lately, I’ve been especially fond of solo instruments and voice and, at the same time, I’ve been getting a bit bored with some of the bands. I haven’t bought a band album in a few years. The standardization of the Celtic band was inevitable, I guess. It’s basically the same trajectory that happened with bluegrass, old-time, country, rock, etc. When the music gets too predictable, I’m drawn back to the roots.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Bob himself

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Variety is good. I just got Kevin Burke's "In Concert," which is mostly unaccompanied, and it is a nice break from the band CDs I've been listening to.

I play in a band, and in a couple of sessions, but I have been thinking a lot lately about playing at a coffee house or an open-mic night either solo or with just a guitar or mandolin on some tunes.

The remarks above about PAs and aggressive arrangements strike a chord with me (no pun intended).

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Romkey

Re: Session or Solo

phiddle: What about singing? solo or accompanied? Mary Black does a solo on the Gael Force DVD and had a huge auditorium full of people spellbound.

Is an oppology anything like an apology? Poppology is the study of old Popeye cartoons. (^:

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by CeolCairdeas

Re: Session or Solo

There is room in the world for both accompanied and unaccompanied singing and playing, and room for both solo and group playing. We can all pursue some or all to our hearts content. Ain't life grand?

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by AlBrown

Re: Session or Solo

Ceol C. - careful with your facts. Sweeney's Dream was recorded several years before If the Cap Fits - and neither contains any of the same tracks. Some of the same tunes, yes - but entirely different performances of them.

I agree that things have changed, though. I believe that solo playing was all about listening to what your friends and neighbours had to say musically. They way the guy on the next farm played a tune and the way a guy 3 miles away might play it, and the way his brother might play it, was considered interestingly different. It told you something that can't be expressed in words about the fellow. And while it could also be fun to play together - and sometimes necessary in order to be heard at a dance - this respect for individuality is sadly lost in the "lets all muck in and play together all the time" fashion.

How many times have I heard on this forum "well, an individualistic setting of a tune is fine if you're a Kevin Burke or Tommy Peoples, but mere mortals should stick to the usual session setting."

And that's why I like solo playing. Or one instrument on the tune and one accompanying. Sometimes bands and sessions are great, but if I could only have it one way, I'd take the solo stuff.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by kris

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I agree, Al. amen for variety!

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by aaron b

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This thread is really timely for me. A few weeks ago, I went to a morning session, and then went to a neighbor's in the afternoon. My neighbor was entertaining out-of-towners. When it came out that I had spent the earlier part of the day playing flute, they were all agog and insisted that I do them a wee concert. This was the first time I had ever done solo Irish flute for an audience, and I loved the experience. I was all amped from having played that morning, so I had tunes ready, and played well. You can really be subtle and creative when you don't have to concentrate on just trying to be heard.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Ailin

Re: Session or Solo

I'd like to hear more solo performances. Sometimes 5 (or more) ITM instruments playing at once can be a bit much on the ear.

Don't forget the best ITM solo instrument is the uilleann pipes!

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Pete D

Re: Session or Solo

Careful what you say indeed. We have a very high quality flute player who quite often comes along to our session, who is also a member of this board, but who is also a tunesmith of the first order. Yer man is polite to a fault, keeps himself to himself, but jeez-oh! when he is finally persuaded to do a few tunes solo ....it's pretty spectacular, I can tell you.

# Posted on April 29th 2005 by Rudall the time

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Kevin Burke probably plays solo because few could put up with the self centred, egotistical............or maybe he needs the money.

I have tried to encourage solo playing, one tune each or something, but I am the only one who does it.

MG is now a mind reader, God bless and protect him. What about your gaff?

# Posted on April 30th 2005 by bodhran bliss

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I wonder how he does it, I read somewheres about Liz Carroll having a helluva time finding gigs. But then again a friend told me about Hayes and Cahill getting 6 grand to play for about 150 people. Maybe Liz is a victim of sexism. Or bad management?

# Posted on April 30th 2005 by KLR

Re: Session or Solo

I had the very good fortune to see Frankie Gavin last night, playing at the Court Sessions in London. He was backed on piano by Brian McGrath, a consummate accompanist - you hardly noticed he was there. One thing I didn't like, however, was Brian's organ accompaniment to a couple of slow airs played by Frankie on the flute - it made it sound like Clannad (nothing wrong with Clannad, but not what I turned up to hear).

For me, harmonic accompaniment of dance tunes is very much a part of Irish Traditional Music. Although I don't remember specifically, I would guess that the first Irish music I heard was accompanied. I certainly do not consider it obligatory (without a doubt, better unaccompanied than badly accompanied), but when there is accompaniment, I hear it as part of the music, not an appendage to it. Unlike for some people I have spoken to, the presence of accompaniment and the style and quality thereof *do* profoundly affect the way I hear a tune (I am not able to block out a technically bad or over-indulgent accompanist).

I feel, however, that slow airs are best treated the same as sean nos singing, and left 'naked' (John Cage was the greatest slow air backer of all time). It is not sufficient simply to say that they so not *need* accompaniment - jigs and reels do not *need* accompaniment either, although they can be effectively complemented by it. Perhaps accompanists have yet to discover ways of playing with slow airs that do not obscure the subtleties of the tune and the player's interpretation.

# Posted on April 30th 2005 by CreadurMawnOrganig

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I reluctantly must agree with Kris. It's not that I don't want change, It's simply that I prefer change that improves the musical experience. I have never wanted to hurry a session. Just the opposite

As an older member of the musical community, I feel a certain weight of responsibility for speaking out, but am reluctant. It is because I stay silent, until I get irritated. Then I have to temper my comments to avoid hurting someone.It just might be better to blurt out my feelings immediately. I don't seem to feel as stupid when I am just being honest, as when I try to temper to please.

I like the people I play with, I actually love them. They have saved me in so many ways by just being there, offering me a choice. Truth were known I could write a book about how my musical friends have saved my life. Have saved me from myself.

I see more of my fellow musicians on a weekly basis for the last 20 years than I get to see my children or grandchildren. How could I not love them? Yet there is where I have the most difficulty communicating.

I think I will have to continue to develop as a solo and forget about synergy for a while. It will come if I work at my own skills first and develop sessions later.

Trying to forge the connections instead of letting them happen spontaneously may be too frustrating and anti-productive. Actually I like to listen to myself play (that is,...live!.... and that is, ... NOT, a recording.)

It helps to have this forum to stimulate my own thoughts and hear from other thoughtful souls who have the same concerns.

WB

# Posted on April 30th 2005 by wvwhistler

Re: Session or Solo

I take it you've not met Kevin Burke, then, bodhran bliss...

Interesting question whether the money would be better. It might be better per gig. At least if you can fill reasonable sized venues. If that's the case, then there must be a demand for it, which is heartening.

I suspect those who play solo enjoy the money, but really do it because they enjoy the freedom of solo playing, and perhaps wish to educate their audience or make a statement about it in some cases. And few musicians play solo exclusively - most are in duos or bands as well.

# Posted on April 30th 2005 by kris

Re: Session or Solo

begF, did you happen to take any photo's at the gig? New or better ones always needed.

a few from Patrick Street on the 22nd April with the addition of John Carty, enjoy
http://www.chinatogalway.com/cuttings/gallery/patrick%20street%20live%2022nd%20april%2005.htm

KS

# Posted on May 1st 2005 by KS

Re: Session or Solo

Interesting discussion....

I love playing on my own - I can work on a tune and find weird ways to play it and experiment etc.

But there's only so far I can get before I need input from other players to enable me to move on in my playing. Not necessarily to teach me and not even necessarily players of the same instrument as I play, but I can get so insular if all I do is play on my own for a length of time.

I've found this a problem recently with moving around - going to uni, moving home, moving to a different town etc...

So I think both are needed in order to develop one's skills.

However, I prefer solo stuff to listen to. Backing is fine but I've found that bands can sometimes just make a load of noise and its difficult to hear a tune!

# Posted on May 1st 2005 by frannyc

Re: Session or Solo

Am I serious Jim? About Kevin being a misery, or me playing solo?

Obviously I have met him, albeit at parties, and he is a great fiddle player, but Keenan would be the one to hang around if you wanted a bit of craic, conversation, and great music.

# Posted on May 1st 2005 by bodhran bliss

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