Sigh, as if working on tempo, rhythm, chord progressions, etc., weren't enough. Looking at some recent photos of my band in concert, I've concluded that I have to come up with better facial expressions when I'm playing. Basically, I look as if I'm trying to swallow my lower lip and a good part of my chin in the bargain. (Of course, that's when I'm playing tunes -- not when I'm singing, thank goodness.)
Interestingly enough, as a morris dancer I encounter this issue frequently as we get near the performance season. During our rehearsals, we remind one another to smile and appear as if we're enjoying ourselves, or at least not to look as if we're about ready to dissolve into a puddle.
Still, I can console myself a little when I see the facial expressions on some of my friends when _they_ perform.
Swallowing your lower lip is by far preferable to being slack-jawed with beer dribbling down your chin, unintentionally staring at someone's crotch all night long.
I think the key is learning how to relax. This is mostly an expression of nervousness or insecurity with our talents. I sometimes let the tip of my tongue slide through my teeth, or kind of gyrate my lower jaw. My band mates have seized on this habit for their own silly amusement.
And it can become a habit, rather than nervous expression, if you don't stay aware of it. Other than simply relaxing, I will often put on a slight smile. (Avoid extremes such as the s**t eating grin, which only lead to more derision.) This gives my facial muscles something esle to do besides contorting into "clown face".
I frown thunderously, I've been told. Which beats one gal I know, who slumps in her chair with her jaw hanging down and her tongue protruding from the corner of her mouth.
Interestingly enough, if I keep my eyes closed I apparently develop a fairly peaceful expression.
Yeah, I've worked so dang hard on getting myself to relax while playing, and now I drool. It's just not fair. (AND there still that little knot of muscle tension I chase around my body while I play. Very aggravating.) Here I am teasing JfiddleH about looking like he's falling asleep, and I do more or less the same thing. ;)
I have similar problems, and it bothers me a lot when I suddenly realize that my mouth is open and I have a goofy look on my face. This seems to be related to concentration as well as relaxation. If I'm playing something that I know well, I can bounce my head and smile and generally look like I'm having fun. But in our tune learning session, I catch myself almost drooling... ugh!
My wife (very kindly) informs me that when I play my five string banjo (clawhammer style) I look like I've been lobotomised - with flute however I've got the knack of looking into the middle distance in a nonchalant fashion - at least I think I do - so Different faces for different instruments - anyone else got this problem?
My incognisant stare is focused precisely on the spot on the floor 10 feet distant, and an angle of 20 degrees left of center.
Unless I'm forced to make eye contact with someone; but this is only while playing. My version of "looking into the middle distance in a nonchalant fashion".
Kelpie, I thought that ALL banjo players were required to look like zombies. Banjo players who betray any emotion at all are suspect. (I spent a lot of years listening to string bands, and figured it must be a result of the incredible rapport they have with their instruments. Or maybe it's like the dog thing: you start looking like your dog after a certain number of years....)
Zina, I do the drool thing. I'm just glad I still have all of my teeth; it doesn't look quite as bad as it could.
This is something my whole musical group is working on, we all stare at the floor when we perform--our stage presence needs work. Probably comes from staring at the music stands when we were in elementary school bands. I find it is best to deliberately find people in the audience to look at and smile--kids work best, as they assume you are being friendly, not yet having built up adult bulwarks against the world.
Another thing that helps is that we have deliberately started to engage the audience in conversation between numbers, have a few jokes to tell, etc. That helps break down what stage people call "the fourth wall" or something like that. In sessions, which some might even say are not a performance (please don't start that discussion again), I tend to stare at people's feet, because even if you can't hear someone's playing well, you can follow the beat of their foot. And in the sessions I go to, a little kick is usually how tune changes are announced.
Recently, I had a terrible dilemma, because the beautiful young girl who was introducing our group dropped something, leaned over to pick it up, and her dungarees were so low and tight that I could see what kind of underwear she had on. As her godmother was sitting next to me, and so was my wife, I had to vigorously control my eye movements and facial expressions!!!!!
I think it definitely varies by instrument - fiddlers tend to look tense, banjo players limp... whistle players, it's not so much the face as the body posture and whether or not it seems like they're trying to hunch their shoulders around till the thing is at their center of mass.
As a concertina player, I know I just look really focused, but like I'm concentrating so hard I'm hardly paying attention. Like in the cheesy TV plots where a guy wears an earpiece out on a date so someone can tell him what to say, only imagine they're asking him to solve calculus problems and he's trying to simultaneously make small talk with the girl, only of course he seems... a bit distracted. That's me. I've managed to stop doing that for tunes I actually know really well, though, which is a big improvement. At least I haven't heard my so-called friends using the words "concertina-face" nearly so much.
Oh, I forgot to mention. That suggestion for people to smile while playing did not apply to flute players, as it mucks up the embrochure. In fact, here is a fun game to play at your next session--do things to make the flute player smile, and time how long it takes before they lose the thread of the tune!
Friends have been telling me forever that I don’t smile enough when I’m performing. When I feel like I’m an inch away from making a compleat fool of myself, it’s hard to feel like smiling. So I guess it’s a matter of how confident I feel at the time, which is usually .. not very. I’ve never really gotten past the fear that I’ll space out and forget everything and my hands will freeze up. Even thougn it’s never actually happened.
A couple of weeks ago we had just finished playing for sets at our local pub when a guy came up and started asking us if we enjoyed what we were doing. I told him I loved what we were doing and he said, "No you don't." I replied, "Excuse me, but I think I'll be the judge of when I'm enjoying myself thank you." and he said, "You don't look like you're enjoying yourself."
Then I explained to him that one of the things I really ENJOY about what I'm doing is that you don't have to put on a show when you play. I explained that people who understand and love the music don’t expect it, and it has no relevance to what the music sounds like. I told him that ITM doesn't fall within the music industry's superficial standards of showmanship and it isn't intended for pop-music consumers. I told him if he's interested in how people look when they sing or play he should be home watching American Idol. He started repeating that we didn't look like we were enjoying ourselves... I went to the bar.
Welcome firelad! You're doing it right, just get all the embarrassing stuff out of the way in your first couple of posts, so that people here can't slag you all that much since you've already done that for yourself
And ROFL IC Keith! The question is whether you're still drooling for the same reasons...
And don't get me wrong - when I've got that goofy look on my face, that doesn't mean that I am staring off into space. I get easily distracted, but I am usually looking around the room. The scary part is I can concentrate on the music much better when I'm staring at a TV in the corner of the pub than I can when I'm just staring at the floor. Very strange.
Solutions..
One- a paper sack on the head with eyeholes will keep 'em guessing.
Two- don't wear pants. It won't keep 'em guessing, but it will fuel speculation.
Rea
i am becoming increasingly disturbed with the loss of my anonimity. It seems Zina has developed an unhealthy interest in me I turn to you for protection as Bliss has proven himself incapable and has frequently tried to remove me from the band in the past himself.
Just out of interest Bliss, how many times have i been sacked from the group now? I'd say the answer contains as many digits as Pi?
The punters who say you don't look like you're enjoying it - like the guy in Jack's story - how the hell do they know? How do they know what Jack looks like when he's enjoying himself? (with the whiskers, how do they know what Jack looks like at all?)
What other pastimes do people take part in where they enjoy themselves without wearing an inane grin all the time?
How about snooker, darts, fishing, skydiving, cricket, football (of all kinds), tennis, horse racing, building model cathedrals out of matches - the list is endless.
And what about the old bodily contact thing between consenting adults - hands up if you smile while you're doing that.
The only one I can think of where a "smile" is compulsory is ballroom dancing, where competitors all have a ghastly death's-head-like grin which looks increasingly hideous as the performance goes on.
I'm with keith - look at the dancers. Especially that big lass in the set over on the left side of the hall . . . . .
What Jack should have said was: "yes sir you're absolutely right - you see, we players of Irish traditional music have so many anally retentive rules to follow that we can't possibly enjoy ourselves".
Someone showed me a photo of me playing the other day and I was horrified. I was all 5 o'clock shadow and double chin! In future I've decided to pay much more attention to how I look when I play. Sod the actual music I'm making. There are enough people playing around me to cover the tune anyway.
I've heard that too, jack - I was sitting with a bunch of jugglers, one of whom was new in town, and he said "wow, this is great music, I wish I had my djembe" and I said "Actually, you'd make a terrible first impression if you showed up with a djembe." He smugly retorts "You're only saying that because you don't know how excellent I am with my djembe", so I delicately suggest that he try the tam tam on the moutain every sunday and not bring his djembe to the session - the excuse I give him is that if he shows up with a djembe suddenly all the hippies in the smoke-quarium will say "WOW! A tam tam! I'm going to get my djembe too!" and before you know it the bar will be full of drummers and you won't be able to hear the music any more.
So then he goes "Man, you guys are really anal retentive. You don't understand what music is about! Look at them! They're all frowning and glaring at each other. They're having a miserable time! In fact, I don't want to play with them anyway. They look totally boring and unfriendly."
The moral of the story being: he never showed up with his djembe.
That's a fine attitude to take to fellow humans wanting to make the world a better place by playing happy music. We usually tell them to #### off, easier on the facial muscles.
Face in the music
Face in the music
Sigh, as if working on tempo, rhythm, chord progressions, etc., weren't enough. Looking at some recent photos of my band in concert, I've concluded that I have to come up with better facial expressions when I'm playing. Basically, I look as if I'm trying to swallow my lower lip and a good part of my chin in the bargain. (Of course, that's when I'm playing tunes -- not when I'm singing, thank goodness.)
Interestingly enough, as a morris dancer I encounter this issue frequently as we get near the performance season. During our rehearsals, we remind one another to smile and appear as if we're enjoying ourselves, or at least not to look as if we're about ready to dissolve into a puddle.
Still, I can console myself a little when I see the facial expressions on some of my friends when _they_ perform.
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by sts
Re: Face in the music
Swallowing your lower lip is by far preferable to being slack-jawed with beer dribbling down your chin, unintentionally staring at someone's crotch all night long.
Trust me.
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Face in the music
I think the key is learning how to relax. This is mostly an expression of nervousness or insecurity with our talents. I sometimes let the tip of my tongue slide through my teeth, or kind of gyrate my lower jaw. My band mates have seized on this habit for their own silly amusement.
And it can become a habit, rather than nervous expression, if you don't stay aware of it. Other than simply relaxing, I will often put on a slight smile. (Avoid extremes such as the s**t eating grin, which only lead to more derision.) This gives my facial muscles something esle to do besides contorting into "clown face".
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by Craymcla
Re: Face in the music
I frown thunderously, I've been told. Which beats one gal I know, who slumps in her chair with her jaw hanging down and her tongue protruding from the corner of her mouth.
Interestingly enough, if I keep my eyes closed I apparently develop a fairly peaceful expression.
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by sara g
Re: Face in the music
Yeah, I've worked so dang hard on getting myself to relax while playing, and now I drool. It's just not fair. (AND there still that little knot of muscle tension I chase around my body while I play. Very aggravating.) Here I am teasing JfiddleH about looking like he's falling asleep, and I do more or less the same thing. ;)
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Face in the music
I have similar problems, and it bothers me a lot when I suddenly realize that my mouth is open and I have a goofy look on my face. This seems to be related to concentration as well as relaxation. If I'm playing something that I know well, I can bounce my head and smile and generally look like I'm having fun. But in our tune learning session, I catch myself almost drooling... ugh!
Pete
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by Reverend
Re: Face in the music
My wife (very kindly) informs me that when I play my five string banjo (clawhammer style) I look like I've been lobotomised - with flute however I've got the knack of looking into the middle distance in a nonchalant fashion - at least I think I do - so Different faces for different instruments - anyone else got this problem?
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by Kelpie
Re: Face in the music
My incognisant stare is focused precisely on the spot on the floor 10 feet distant, and an angle of 20 degrees left of center.
Unless I'm forced to make eye contact with someone; but this is only while playing. My version of "looking into the middle distance in a nonchalant fashion".
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by FyfferGuy
Re: Face in the music
I get really crosseyed. Oh well.
)
(Now isn't that just the best thread for my first post?
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by firelad
Re: Face in the music
Kelpie, I thought that ALL banjo players were required to look like zombies. Banjo players who betray any emotion at all are suspect.
(I spent a lot of years listening to string bands, and figured it must be a result of the incredible rapport they have with their instruments. Or maybe it's like the dog thing: you start looking like your dog after a certain number of years....)
Zina, I do the drool thing. I'm just glad I still have all of my teeth; it doesn't look quite as bad as it could.
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by Batlady
Re: Face in the music
This is something my whole musical group is working on, we all stare at the floor when we perform--our stage presence needs work. Probably comes from staring at the music stands when we were in elementary school bands. I find it is best to deliberately find people in the audience to look at and smile--kids work best, as they assume you are being friendly, not yet having built up adult bulwarks against the world.
Another thing that helps is that we have deliberately started to engage the audience in conversation between numbers, have a few jokes to tell, etc. That helps break down what stage people call "the fourth wall" or something like that. In sessions, which some might even say are not a performance (please don't start that discussion again), I tend to stare at people's feet, because even if you can't hear someone's playing well, you can follow the beat of their foot. And in the sessions I go to, a little kick is usually how tune changes are announced.
Recently, I had a terrible dilemma, because the beautiful young girl who was introducing our group dropped something, leaned over to pick it up, and her dungarees were so low and tight that I could see what kind of underwear she had on. As her godmother was sitting next to me, and so was my wife, I had to vigorously control my eye movements and facial expressions!!!!!
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Face in the music
I think it definitely varies by instrument - fiddlers tend to look tense, banjo players limp... whistle players, it's not so much the face as the body posture and whether or not it seems like they're trying to hunch their shoulders around till the thing is at their center of mass.
As a concertina player, I know I just look really focused, but like I'm concentrating so hard I'm hardly paying attention. Like in the cheesy TV plots where a guy wears an earpiece out on a date so someone can tell him what to say, only imagine they're asking him to solve calculus problems and he's trying to simultaneously make small talk with the girl, only of course he seems... a bit distracted. That's me. I've managed to stop doing that for tunes I actually know really well, though, which is a big improvement. At least I haven't heard my so-called friends using the words "concertina-face" nearly so much.
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by concertinette
Re: Face in the music
I used to stare slack-jawed at the audience and drool in my crotch.
I figured it was nerves, so I employed the age old public speaking technique of imagining the audience naked.
Now I stare slack-jawed at the audience and drool in my crotch.
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by IC Keith
Re: Face in the music
Oh, I forgot to mention. That suggestion for people to smile while playing did not apply to flute players, as it mucks up the embrochure. In fact, here is a fun game to play at your next session--do things to make the flute player smile, and time how long it takes before they lose the thread of the tune!
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Face in the music
Friends have been telling me forever that I don’t smile enough when I’m performing. When I feel like I’m an inch away from making a compleat fool of myself, it’s hard to feel like smiling. So I guess it’s a matter of how confident I feel at the time, which is usually .. not very. I’ve never really gotten past the fear that I’ll space out and forget everything and my hands will freeze up. Even thougn it’s never actually happened.
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Face in the music
A couple of weeks ago we had just finished playing for sets at our local pub when a guy came up and started asking us if we enjoyed what we were doing. I told him I loved what we were doing and he said, "No you don't." I replied, "Excuse me, but I think I'll be the judge of when I'm enjoying myself thank you." and he said, "You don't look like you're enjoying yourself."
Then I explained to him that one of the things I really ENJOY about what I'm doing is that you don't have to put on a show when you play. I explained that people who understand and love the music don’t expect it, and it has no relevance to what the music sounds like. I told him that ITM doesn't fall within the music industry's superficial standards of showmanship and it isn't intended for pop-music consumers. I told him if he's interested in how people look when they sing or play he should be home watching American Idol. He started repeating that we didn't look like we were enjoying ourselves... I went to the bar.
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Face in the music
Welcome firelad! You're doing it right, just get all the embarrassing stuff out of the way in your first couple of posts, so that people here can't slag you all that much since you've already done that for yourself
And ROFL IC Keith! The question is whether you're still drooling for the same reasons...
And don't get me wrong - when I've got that goofy look on my face, that doesn't mean that I am staring off into space. I get easily distracted, but I am usually looking around the room. The scary part is I can concentrate on the music much better when I'm staring at a TV in the corner of the pub than I can when I'm just staring at the floor. Very strange.
Pete
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by Reverend
Re: Face in the music
Good point, Jack.
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by kris
Re: Face in the music
Zina, havent you got over that whole jfiddlerh thing yet?
No?
Good!
Want to start a new thread?
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by wreckin` rea
Re: Face in the music
I look non-sophisticated, apparently.
'Rea. Go ahead, start the thread. Ugly musicians that I know would be a good title.
# Posted on April 26th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Face in the music
Solutions..
One- a paper sack on the head with eyeholes will keep 'em guessing.
Two- don't wear pants. It won't keep 'em guessing, but it will fuel speculation.
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by rainog
Re: Face in the music
Rea
I turn to you for protection as Bliss has proven himself incapable and has frequently tried to remove me from the band in the past himself.
i am becoming increasingly disturbed with the loss of my anonimity. It seems Zina has developed an unhealthy interest in me
Just out of interest Bliss, how many times have i been sacked from the group now? I'd say the answer contains as many digits as Pi?
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by jfiddlerh
Re: Face in the music
Thats alright john, I`ll look after you, oooh, sorry you`re supposed to be anonomous.....
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by wreckin` rea
Re: Face in the music
No, I'm anonomous!
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Face in the music
How`s that fair?
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by wreckin` rea
Re: Face in the music
I'm not sure
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Face in the music
This is all very interesting.
The punters who say you don't look like you're enjoying it - like the guy in Jack's story - how the hell do they know? How do they know what Jack looks like when he's enjoying himself? (with the whiskers, how do they know what Jack looks like at all?)
What other pastimes do people take part in where they enjoy themselves without wearing an inane grin all the time?
How about snooker, darts, fishing, skydiving, cricket, football (of all kinds), tennis, horse racing, building model cathedrals out of matches - the list is endless.
And what about the old bodily contact thing between consenting adults - hands up if you smile while you're doing that.
The only one I can think of where a "smile" is compulsory is ballroom dancing, where competitors all have a ghastly death's-head-like grin which looks increasingly hideous as the performance goes on.
I'm with keith - look at the dancers. Especially that big lass in the set over on the left side of the hall . . . . .
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Face in the music
What Jack should have said was: "yes sir you're absolutely right - you see, we players of Irish traditional music have so many anally retentive rules to follow that we can't possibly enjoy ourselves".
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by Dow
Re: Face in the music
Someone showed me a photo of me playing the other day and I was horrified. I was all 5 o'clock shadow and double chin! In future I've decided to pay much more attention to how I look when I play. Sod the actual music I'm making. There are enough people playing around me to cover the tune anyway.
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by Dow
Re: Face in the music
I've heard that too, jack - I was sitting with a bunch of jugglers, one of whom was new in town, and he said "wow, this is great music, I wish I had my djembe" and I said "Actually, you'd make a terrible first impression if you showed up with a djembe." He smugly retorts "You're only saying that because you don't know how excellent I am with my djembe", so I delicately suggest that he try the tam tam on the moutain every sunday and not bring his djembe to the session - the excuse I give him is that if he shows up with a djembe suddenly all the hippies in the smoke-quarium will say "WOW! A tam tam! I'm going to get my djembe too!" and before you know it the bar will be full of drummers and you won't be able to hear the music any more.
So then he goes "Man, you guys are really anal retentive. You don't understand what music is about! Look at them! They're all frowning and glaring at each other. They're having a miserable time! In fact, I don't want to play with them anyway. They look totally boring and unfriendly."
The moral of the story being: he never showed up with his djembe.
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Face in the music
thats's a great story Kerri
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: Face in the music
Actually the moral of the story is, your frightening facial expressions are helping in the struggle keep out jammers. Keep up the good work, people!
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Face in the music
That's a fine attitude to take to fellow humans wanting to make the world a better place by playing happy music. We usually tell them to #### off, easier on the facial muscles.
I just try to look impressive.
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: Face in the music
Any success yet? [An impressive looking bodhrán player? There's an oxymoron if ever there was one - ho ho ho ho hee hee hee]
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by breandan
Re: Face in the music
"And what about the old bodily contact thing between consenting adults - hands up if you smile while you're doing that." (raises hand)
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Face in the music
Hey Kerri, I've been watching your progress -- right on!
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Face in the music
The banjo player in our session glares at people like he is looking for a fight. I wouldn't mind but you could not meet a nicer bloke.
All the photographic evidence usually proves is that I need to get my roots done!
I saw a guy recently playing in a group chewing the cud. Watching him was like reading sheet music, he was mouthing all the notes!
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by Fudge
Re: Face in the music
Hey, now, I still learn all my tunes at sessions, Jack. I just don't want my screw-ups and noodlings drowned out by pounding tribal rhythms.
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Oy-vey
# Posted on April 27th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Face in the music
All encompassing answer to your woes: Sunglasses, a baseball cap and a camouflage hoody sweatshirt. AKA: Fiddler's hideout.
# Posted on April 28th 2005 by c_ya
Re: Face in the music
I have been told that watching my facial contortions whilst playing the concertina is much more entertaining than the music.
# Posted on May 3rd 2005 by flying tigerpig