first of all, I'm not looking for a reply, I think I need externalizing the feelings and thoughts that pass for my head, want I or want not...so thanks for let me post
Last night I was listening to Solas in a Concert.
each time that see a teenager touching of form increible and marvelous, each time (or better at the following day) of a great concert, or after a friend of mine (and this does not signify that not me happy deep and sincerely by them) progresses in an incredible way, or forms a group of music. ... I cannot avoid to feel me frustrated and lower, and I think about me to stop playing....
The frustration is not, of course, something that come only to see another musician, if not because I am not capable of improving as they, neither of playing ,
neither I believe that the fact that I play the flute is going to contribute nothing to nobody, neither almost to myself
. ...
What sense has that a mediocre flutist as I itself try and try again to improve, without practically results, when there is in the world so good players?' It should be better accept my limitations and to feel me happy only with listening to them??
But at the same time, playing is like an addiction... sooner or later I take my flute again and start playin....
ok, I've realising i'can not talk about feelings in english so well... so, I think it's enough...
Yeah, there has been more than one time I've gone home from seeing someone else play and thought to myself, "I really don't know whether I'm inspired to practice or just give it up as hopeless and burn the thing."
And then along comes some 6 year old girl in the park who says "You play real good."
Now I'm no Mat Malloy or Seamus Egan, but I still, for a few minutes, made a little girl happy. What else would one hope to bring to the world? If there's anything better than that I can't think of it right now.
And maybe she'll take up flute and be the next Seamus Egan. Ya never know what your influence on the world is going to be.
Shut up. Go to the park. Play. Make a little girl happy.
If you've got a whistle lying about the house that you never play anymore, take it with you. Give it to her. Show her how to play a simple tune.
Then run before her parents figure out what's going on.
Make yourself happy too while you're about it. You have my permission. If someone accuses you of violating the taboo against being happy show them this post and send them to me.
And always remember those immortal words of G.K. Chesterton:
Either fortunately or unfortunately, if you post, you end up with replies, more often than not, even if you say you're not looking for any.
If you follow the reasoning of "if I play this instrument, does it contribute anything to anyone, including myself?" down to the end of it all, you could rather dishearteningly decide that in fact your entire life doesn't contribute much overall in the grand scheme of things. As Kevin says, though, you don't really know what your influence in the world and on the lives of other people are, and you probably never will, thankfully.
Agatha Christie once wrote a short story called Ground Zero, which was essentially about the idea that a concenatation of seemingly random, unimportant acts and events can sometimes lead up to a very important thing when it all comes together at "ground zero".
If playing your flute and your music makes you happy, perhaps there's a reason for that. You may never know what it is. Your own version of Kevin's little girl might be it, or perhaps you'll learn something about yourself or others through your music that you wouldn't be able to learn otherwise. Who knows? Not me, and not anyone else, but no one will ever find out if you don't do it.
Besides all that philosophical bosh, if you enjoy it, then do it, regardless of whether you'll ever play like Seamus Egan or even come a tenth close. It's better to be happy than to be sad, don't you think? Always better to tip the world's balance toward happy, in my book.
Martuky, I’ve heard it said that when 78s of Michael Colman and his contemporaries first started to be available in Ireland, many fiddlers hung up their fiddles for the reasons you’ve discussed. Thus another nail was driven into the regional diversity of Irish music, and the music moved one step further from being an expression of social intercourse between ordinary people, towards what the vast majority of music is today - a form of professional entertainment which enables people who like to listen to music to be milked for profit by businessmen.
So don’t hang up your flute because you can’t play like Seamus Egan. Play like you can play for your own enjoyment of the music and to communicate that enjoyment to your friends. The professional musicians you hear probably don’t actually get any more pleasure from playing than you do, at the end of the day ...
Regards
Mark
Jimmy Troy, you mean one of those pipe thingies that you twirl round your head to make whale noises? I think I can manage one of those. I can get a note or two out of a flute, but play a whole tune? Nah. Give me the ol' catgut any day.
Jim, I'm not sure if your onomatopoeic comment about Seamus' flute playing was meant in jest or not, so forgive me if I misinterpreted it... I need to leap to his defense here. Seamus gets slagged relentlessly on this board, and it's clear that martuky really felt a connection with his flute playing. Regardless of what folks think of Seamus' direction in musical choices-- and I acknowledge that they are not at all popular or seen as valid by a lot of the ITM crowd, a not inappropriate opinion-- I find it hard, IMHO, to criticize his flute playing too much. True, martuky has many, many other options as far as flute players are concerned, but there is much to be learned from Seamus' playing, whether or not one finds it traditional, or a "sell-out".
BTW, martuky... there's only one Matt Molloy, Jack Gilder, Seamus Egan, Emily Seay.. and only one martuky! Keep listening, keep practicing, keep learning, keep singing into your instrument-- with perseverance, you *will* fulfill your fullest potential!
Playing diddley music, unlike the vast majority of other musical endevours is not a performance art. Of course, there are certain renowned exponants of this music who make their livings out of performing, and regularly make very successful recordings of their performances, but they would be the first to admit how they skew the music to fit this criteria. Performance is a gregarious art form completely out of keeping with the insularity which great diddley music demands. It sounds like a contradiction, but the best diddley music is deeply antisocial. Diddley music at its best consists of either an isolated monologue or very intimate conversations between just a few individuals. These conversations are not merely repeated slices of melody with subtle variations, but minutely altered private mutterings. Even the act of observing them effects them, let alone attempting to record them. ( Rather like ike the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in quantum mechanics).
Jim, did you know that "facetious" is, by my reckoning, the only word in the English language in which all the vowels (save the annoying, middling "y-as-a-vowel") appear in alphabetical order?
I think that what Michael says above is worth elaborating on. When people say that ‘This is not performance music’, that’s not just some sort of inverted snobbery, it’s a statement of fact. The vast majority of what we play is derived from very functional dance music, and does not stray far from that. This doesn’t constitute music to listen to in the way one might listen to, say, Beethoven’s Pastoral Symphony - by itself it’s too arcane and self-referencial. It’s a constantly changing dialogue between the the players in which will also change significantly as the make-up of the session changes. These changes are part of what keeps us interested in playing it - it’s never the same twice. UNLESS it’s taken from it’s context and distorted/arranged into a performance art. Then, in order for it to work as ‘entertainment,’ it has to be significantly changed - or indeed inducted into a different musical form. So, no matter how brilliant the players are, if Lunasa or Solas simply stood on a stage, and played ‘the music’, it would not constitute entertainment. It has to be arranged to give it a different dynamic. It has to incorporate related musical ideas from different genres and cultures, it has to be made overtly ‘interesting and varied’, to keep the attention of an attentive audience. In Michael’s parlance - it has to be ‘skewed’.
So to view Seamus Egan as being at the ‘top of the tree’ is a bit of a red herring - he’s actually squatting atop a completely different bush(!)
So maybe the secret is not to worry about the virtuosity of the professional musician, but to enjoy what you like about their music, and lift any usable ideas, techniques and tunes that might come in handy!
Mark
"the session dot org , the Jaundiced Board that cares ..." Jeremy, can we please have that motto added to the t-shirt? Please? ;)
"the best diddley music is deeply antisocial." Feel free, however, to define "best" differently from Michael Gill, though. Everybody's definition of "best" is going to differ from someone else's, and the same person's "best" is going to be different from day to day, hour to hour, and moment to moment.
Hmmm. Well, let me have a try at it to see if I get what Michael means. I *think* what he's saying is that the "best" (for his definition of "best") of this music is solo or small groups, and that it's like a monologue or dialogue on a theme from one individual or small group of like-minded individuals.
Practicaba mi música en el bosque por un río. Dos de 12 años de edad chicas andaban por y bailados a la música. Dónde yo vivo en California era una vez una espalda de área de fiebre del oro en 1849. Un hombre viejo andado por y mirado como un minero de oro viejo. El se sentó y escuchó. El gozó la música. El me mostró su equipo para encontrar oro. Había una puesta del sol espectacular. Yo no sé cuán bueno soy como un músico, pero la sesión de la práctica como éstos son muy agradables.
en Ingles/ in English
I was practicing music yesterday by the river. Two 12 year old girls were walking by and danced to the music. This once was an area of the gold rush in 1849. Then a man walked by that looked like an old miner. He showed me his equipment for finding gold. There was a spectacular sunset. I don't know if I am a good musician, but this was an enjoyable experience.
(^:
Yes, Mark understands, and Zina almost has it. It's not just that "this music is solo or small groups, and that it's like a monologue or dialogue" but that that monologue or dialogue is not a performance. As soon as it as percieved as such, it is altered by that perception to its detriment.
Yes, and if there's a cat in the pub, then there's three possible states for it to be in, alive, dead, and irritated with all of the people who have opposable thumbs who aren't giving it food.
This is where it starts getting into "just play the damn tune, will you?" starts going into play for me!
Zina: "Its always better to tip the world's balance toward happy." I agree (of course), but I am just noticing after at least two decades, being happy has not made the happy face critter grow a nose.
When I post here this morning I didn’t thought it could happen… and that’s the reason why I said I was not looking for replies, I really though that my thoughts wouldn’t be an interesting item for you, but I was wrong or at least you are so kind…So, all your replies have been really really welcomed…
KFG: When I post this morning at the session, I didn't think that I could get a reply so warm and ¿nearby? Like yours..., and I'm grateful for that...
It was a really really great post, full of utility and comprehension for me , and perhaps a little light to my loosing mind...
I understand you and Ceol when you say about the feeling of having that experiences by playing… and you have reason in it: I’ve feel it…
I understand too the idea of playing in the traditional way… And enjoy so much in it, and each time you play, I think, you put your feeling in it, and you expressivity, but I think that to performance the music makes it more yours (if that’s the word…), because you put much more things of you in it, and both ways are needed and make more rich the expression of your playing and your ¿musical mind?…
For me they are two different things and are both fantastic!!
But, if it’s difficult the first , much more the second… don’t you think?
So I’m double frustrating…
Thank you for encouraging me
(and Ceol, gracias por ese inciso en español, es todo un detalle por tu parte// Eng: thanks for your few words in spanish, it’s very kind from you [more or less] )
(I wrote a more complete post, but I delete it, I don’t know how, and it’s so much work for me write again it completely, so sorry me…) J
Something helpful I've learned along the way is that if you focus on how good the music is, rather than on how good you are, you will have more confidence, more fun with it, and less stress. It's a lot less intimidating when it's about the music, and as a result, you'll find yourself improving. Keep playing!
Music should be played from the heart. Its something I struglle with, because its so easy to get caught up in how "good" you are in comparison to other people, but try to remember everything these people have said, their very wise
Just keep on playing some day you'll get there I used to barely be able to play Flute but I am can now play pretty well. It is not a contest don't judge yourself to the professionals judge to how much worse you were before. On St. Paddy's day I made an old man happy in a pub near closing time playing GHBs as soon as I struck in and started up a set o' Minstrel Boy/Sean South of Gary Owen/Wearin' of the Green the old man (the only person at the bar at 10 at night there was a table full of 4 people this guy and the barmaids who also enjoyed it one was mesmerized by it) had a huge grin on his face I felt really proud and accomplished after I made somebody who proabably lives a bleak depressing life but for that moment in time was very happy.
I now understand. If it's about being anti-social, well I'd love to hear M.G, he must be f''''ing brilliant.
At last Sunday's session a bloke told me that he played the bodhran, but was nowhere near my standard. I cheered him up by telling him that neither was anyone else. (a small lie I know). Maybe I should have told him to get an anti-social attitude.
OK maybe I was being facetious. Michael is suggesting that great ITM is an intimate moment, and needs to be free from distractions, perhaps a bit like making love to someone you really love for the first time. I mean you don't want a crowd of people arriving attempting to join in. Well I wouldn't anyway, it could put you off your stroke, musically that is.
Now it has a certain truth that if 3 or 4 musicians sit in someone's kitchen and play away, interacting with each other, yes, it should sound good. But if that is all you do, well ITM would soon become a strange cult, complete with initiation ceremony. I am aware that some already treat it as such.
Music, especially ITM was meant to be enjoyed by all, rather than "suffered" by a few. The "Bothy Band" live used to get close to a session sound when doing a performance, without introducing gimics.
So I suppose it depends on what you want. Isolated perfection ALL THE TIME, or widen your horizons, and just play, chat, wind up, and have fun as well.
I’ll never be world renowned. Although I would love to be world famous for some positive quality about me it probably will never happen. But that’s not why I play. You need to be happy with what you can do and take joy in what others can do.
A little inspiration (obtained from a Keith Jarrett album):
Natural Disasters
As I piece together the people of the past,
they become strangers, Somehow, eyes
& lines of faces shift, & I fall out
of love with the simplicity of flesh.
Singling out several who fell down
the steps getting up in the world,
twisting their fates so they look good on paper
as if they went to town with their lives,
bought good for strayed souls.
Some surely followed the straight & narrow
& bored themselves to death.
others watched and waited
for the bone dust to collect in their rooms.
For the ones who wrestled with the lion
& let the strong claws sink in,
smothered by love & muscle,
I etch you calmly, clearly
So the sun may settle full on your forms.
My first contribution, I do not come around as often as I would like.
But I can recognise the feeling. Started playing around a year ago after not having played for about 10. Started out terrible, but at one point when I was about to give in, all of a sudden I left the sheet and played to the guitar - don't know how or why, it just happened, I forgot myself and just lived with it. Well, those moments are why I play. Having a stressing job, practising and feeling the music is a nice break. Playing with others can be great fun, performing also, but the feeling of a new tune starting to work is still the best. Getting it to work with others is fun and catching an audience spontaneously tapping their feet or starting dancing in a non-dancing place is also great. But some of my best moments I had alone with my violin!
I did go home from concerts being depressed about how bad I played. The next time I started I had catched a few tricks that started working and then it was inspirational. I learned to be inspired instead of depressed, worked great. I even had the opportunity to play with very good musicians - being crude in my playing and with a lousy technique, we were still able to have a good time. And that is basically what it is about, is it not?
OK BodhranBliss,
"The "Bothy Band" live used to get close to a session sound when doing a performance, without introducing gimmicks."
Think about that.
Who was in the Bothy band?
Weren't they all great session musicians, in a session context?
Yet when they played as a band, they were celebrated for 'getting CLOSE to a session sound.'
Now they could get a true 'session sound' standing on their heads. The fact is that when they were playing in the band they were doing something different - something which was arranged and had a dynamic which worked as a performance, but which, if you like. embodied, or reflected what was considered to be the 'genuine' sound of Irish music at the time - i.e. The session. No one is saying that this is a 'gimmick', they were all fantastic players, playing fantastic music. BUT - there is a difference between performance music and session music - that's all.
That's what I meant by "got close to" a session sound.
Who was in Bothy Band. Two O'Donnells and I used to think it was Michael playing too "heavy" on strings until the obvious hit me, the "whirling Dervish" Lunny was to blame, good arranger though. Keenen and Molloy were excellent, and Burke but he could be very tempermental at a session. Maybe that was a gimmick. Keenan was by far the best to play with and friendliest.
If you want to play, play. If you're really crap, don't expect people to shut up and listen, but don't let that stop you playing just to yourself if you love it. A musician who plays purely for others (or admiration of others perhaps) and not for him/herself would be a odd sort of person...
Also rememebr that the average non-musician thinks that anybody who can stand upright and hold an instrument and make noises on it must be brilliant.
If you're in a session adn not sure if you're being well received, body language should tell you, even if people's mouths don't!
Go and see as many top-rate musicians as you can in concert.
Watch their technique - have a go at some of what you see and have a go at some of their tunes.
If you saw them in a session, you would want to play along - sit and study them but don't try and copy them exactly.
The great thing about this music, and music in pubs in general, is that it is about sharing. People joining in with instruments, singing along, even picking up the spoons off the table. I even got a lesson from a guy at the bar during a dance, who showed me how to put quarters between your knuckles and play drums on the bartop and pint glass--and he was able to do remarkable things. There is performance and listening, where most of the people are passive, and then there is sharing music, which, for me, is where it's at. And even the performances can become participation. At the concerts I attend, when the rhythm starts to pulse, you can feel the thump of feet on the floor--and if the musicians go with that pulse, the whole place moves.
I don't have much to add here, just a quick "Thank you" for helping me to remember why I do what I do. Especially to Kevin for that "Girl in the Park" metaphor.
That's what it's all about mes amis.
<waxing philosophical> I've always said my goal in life is to save the world, one person at a time, starting with myself. Just sometimes I need gentle reminders of that. </waxing>
to play or not to play
to play or not to play
first of all, I'm not looking for a reply, I think I need externalizing the feelings and thoughts that pass for my head, want I or want not...so thanks for let me post
Last night I was listening to Solas in a Concert.
each time that see a teenager touching of form increible and marvelous, each time (or better at the following day) of a great concert, or after a friend of mine (and this does not signify that not me happy deep and sincerely by them) progresses in an incredible way, or forms a group of music. ... I cannot avoid to feel me frustrated and lower, and I think about me to stop playing....
The frustration is not, of course, something that come only to see another musician, if not because I am not capable of improving as they, neither of playing ,
neither I believe that the fact that I play the flute is going to contribute nothing to nobody, neither almost to myself
. ...
What sense has that a mediocre flutist as I itself try and try again to improve, without practically results, when there is in the world so good players?' It should be better accept my limitations and to feel me happy only with listening to them??
But at the same time, playing is like an addiction... sooner or later I take my flute again and start playin....
ok, I've realising i'can not talk about feelings in english so well... so, I think it's enough...
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by McTuky
Oh, and thank you for listen (or read)
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by McTuky
Re: to play or not to play
Yeah, there has been more than one time I've gone home from seeing someone else play and thought to myself, "I really don't know whether I'm inspired to practice or just give it up as hopeless and burn the thing."
And then along comes some 6 year old girl in the park who says "You play real good."
Now I'm no Mat Malloy or Seamus Egan, but I still, for a few minutes, made a little girl happy. What else would one hope to bring to the world? If there's anything better than that I can't think of it right now.
And maybe she'll take up flute and be the next Seamus Egan. Ya never know what your influence on the world is going to be.
Shut up. Go to the park. Play. Make a little girl happy.
If you've got a whistle lying about the house that you never play anymore, take it with you. Give it to her. Show her how to play a simple tune.
Then run before her parents figure out what's going on.
Make yourself happy too while you're about it. You have my permission. If someone accuses you of violating the taboo against being happy show them this post and send them to me.
And always remember those immortal words of G.K. Chesterton:
"Anything worth doing it worth doing badly."
So just do it, 'K?
KFG
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by KFG
Re: to play or not to play
Either fortunately or unfortunately, if you post, you end up with replies, more often than not, even if you say you're not looking for any.
Always better to tip the world's balance toward happy, in my book. 
If you follow the reasoning of "if I play this instrument, does it contribute anything to anyone, including myself?" down to the end of it all, you could rather dishearteningly decide that in fact your entire life doesn't contribute much overall in the grand scheme of things. As Kevin says, though, you don't really know what your influence in the world and on the lives of other people are, and you probably never will, thankfully.
Agatha Christie once wrote a short story called Ground Zero, which was essentially about the idea that a concenatation of seemingly random, unimportant acts and events can sometimes lead up to a very important thing when it all comes together at "ground zero".
If playing your flute and your music makes you happy, perhaps there's a reason for that. You may never know what it is. Your own version of Kevin's little girl might be it, or perhaps you'll learn something about yourself or others through your music that you wouldn't be able to learn otherwise. Who knows? Not me, and not anyone else, but no one will ever find out if you don't do it.
Besides all that philosophical bosh, if you enjoy it, then do it, regardless of whether you'll ever play like Seamus Egan or even come a tenth close. It's better to be happy than to be sad, don't you think?
Good luck!
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: to play or not to play
Martuky, I’ve heard it said that when 78s of Michael Colman and his contemporaries first started to be available in Ireland, many fiddlers hung up their fiddles for the reasons you’ve discussed. Thus another nail was driven into the regional diversity of Irish music, and the music moved one step further from being an expression of social intercourse between ordinary people, towards what the vast majority of music is today - a form of professional entertainment which enables people who like to listen to music to be milked for profit by businessmen.
So don’t hang up your flute because you can’t play like Seamus Egan. Play like you can play for your own enjoyment of the music and to communicate that enjoyment to your friends. The professional musicians you hear probably don’t actually get any more pleasure from playing than you do, at the end of the day ...
Regards
Mark
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Ottery
Re: to play or not to play
Jimmy Troy, you mean one of those pipe thingies that you twirl round your head to make whale noises? I think I can manage one of those.
I can get a note or two out of a flute, but play a whole tune? Nah. Give me the ol' catgut any day. 
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: to play or not to play
BTW, maturky, your written English is much much better than my written Spanish would ever be, that's for sure!
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: to play or not to play
(or, apparently, my spelling. Sorry about that typo, martuky!)
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: to play or not to play
Jim, I'm not sure if your onomatopoeic comment about Seamus' flute playing was meant in jest or not, so forgive me if I misinterpreted it... I need to leap to his defense here. Seamus gets slagged relentlessly on this board, and it's clear that martuky really felt a connection with his flute playing. Regardless of what folks think of Seamus' direction in musical choices-- and I acknowledge that they are not at all popular or seen as valid by a lot of the ITM crowd, a not inappropriate opinion-- I find it hard, IMHO, to criticize his flute playing too much. True, martuky has many, many other options as far as flute players are concerned, but there is much to be learned from Seamus' playing, whether or not one finds it traditional, or a "sell-out".
Again, sorry if I misread your comments.
Best, DK
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by darinkelly
Re: to play or not to play
KFG - even considering all of the debating power you've displayed here over time, this was one of the best thing that you've written, end of story!
Cheers,
Avi
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by improziv
Re: to play or not to play
BTW, martuky... there's only one Matt Molloy, Jack Gilder, Seamus Egan, Emily Seay.. and only one martuky! Keep listening, keep practicing, keep learning, keep singing into your instrument-- with perseverance, you *will* fulfill your fullest potential!
Best of luck, DK
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by darinkelly
Re: to play or not to play
Jim, we cross-posted, and I indeed seem to have misread your opinion of Seamus... mea culpa indeed.
DK
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by darinkelly
Re: to play or not to play
Do not be put off by the so called proffessional.
Playing diddley music, unlike the vast majority of other musical endevours is not a performance art. Of course, there are certain renowned exponants of this music who make their livings out of performing, and regularly make very successful recordings of their performances, but they would be the first to admit how they skew the music to fit this criteria. Performance is a gregarious art form completely out of keeping with the insularity which great diddley music demands. It sounds like a contradiction, but the best diddley music is deeply antisocial. Diddley music at its best consists of either an isolated monologue or very intimate conversations between just a few individuals. These conversations are not merely repeated slices of melody with subtle variations, but minutely altered private mutterings. Even the act of observing them effects them, let alone attempting to record them. ( Rather like ike the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in quantum mechanics).
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by ...
Re: to play or not to play
Jim, did you know that "facetious" is, by my reckoning, the only word in the English language in which all the vowels (save the annoying, middling "y-as-a-vowel") appear in alphabetical order?
Being me is a real drag sometimes...
DK
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by darinkelly
Re: to play or not to play
I think that what Michael says above is worth elaborating on. When people say that ‘This is not performance music’, that’s not just some sort of inverted snobbery, it’s a statement of fact. The vast majority of what we play is derived from very functional dance music, and does not stray far from that. This doesn’t constitute music to listen to in the way one might listen to, say, Beethoven’s Pastoral Symphony - by itself it’s too arcane and self-referencial. It’s a constantly changing dialogue between the the players in which will also change significantly as the make-up of the session changes. These changes are part of what keeps us interested in playing it - it’s never the same twice. UNLESS it’s taken from it’s context and distorted/arranged into a performance art. Then, in order for it to work as ‘entertainment,’ it has to be significantly changed - or indeed inducted into a different musical form. So, no matter how brilliant the players are, if Lunasa or Solas simply stood on a stage, and played ‘the music’, it would not constitute entertainment. It has to be arranged to give it a different dynamic. It has to incorporate related musical ideas from different genres and cultures, it has to be made overtly ‘interesting and varied’, to keep the attention of an attentive audience. In Michael’s parlance - it has to be ‘skewed’.
So to view Seamus Egan as being at the ‘top of the tree’ is a bit of a red herring - he’s actually squatting atop a completely different bush(!)
So maybe the secret is not to worry about the virtuosity of the professional musician, but to enjoy what you like about their music, and lift any usable ideas, techniques and tunes that might come in handy!
Mark
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Ottery
Re: to play or not to play
"the session dot org , the Jaundiced Board that cares ..." Jeremy, can we please have that motto added to the t-shirt? Please? ;)
"the best diddley music is deeply antisocial." Feel free, however, to define "best" differently from Michael Gill, though. Everybody's definition of "best" is going to differ from someone else's, and the same person's "best" is going to be different from day to day, hour to hour, and moment to moment.
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: to play or not to play
Hmmm. Well, let me have a try at it to see if I get what Michael means. I *think* what he's saying is that the "best" (for his definition of "best") of this music is solo or small groups, and that it's like a monologue or dialogue on a theme from one individual or small group of like-minded individuals.
Do I have that one right, Michael?
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: to play or not to play
Buenos Dias Martucky:
Your English is better than my Spanish.
Practicaba mi música en el bosque por un río. Dos de 12 años de edad chicas andaban por y bailados a la música. Dónde yo vivo en California era una vez una espalda de área de fiebre del oro en 1849. Un hombre viejo andado por y mirado como un minero de oro viejo. El se sentó y escuchó. El gozó la música. El me mostró su equipo para encontrar oro. Había una puesta del sol espectacular. Yo no sé cuán bueno soy como un músico, pero la sesión de la práctica como éstos son muy agradables.
en Ingles/ in English
I was practicing music yesterday by the river. Two 12 year old girls were walking by and danced to the music. This once was an area of the gold rush in 1849. Then a man walked by that looked like an old miner. He showed me his equipment for finding gold. There was a spectacular sunset. I don't know if I am a good musician, but this was an enjoyable experience.
(^:
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: to play or not to play
"Being me is a real drag sometimes..." *smirk* Nice, Darin, nice...
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: to play or not to play
Yes, Mark understands, and Zina almost has it. It's not just that "this music is solo or small groups, and that it's like a monologue or dialogue" but that that monologue or dialogue is not a performance. As soon as it as percieved as such, it is altered by that perception to its detriment.
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by ...
Re: to play or not to play
Yes, and if there's a cat in the pub, then there's three possible states for it to be in, alive, dead, and irritated with all of the people who have opposable thumbs who aren't giving it food.
This is where it starts getting into "just play the damn tune, will you?" starts going into play for me!
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: to play or not to play
Zina: "Its always better to tip the world's balance toward happy." I agree (of course), but I am just noticing after at least two decades, being happy has not made the happy face critter grow a nose.
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: to play or not to play
Who said happiness has a nose? What is it with you and the noses, anyway?
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: to play or not to play
Damned if I knows.
KFG
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by KFG
Re: to play or not to play
Martuky, I know I'll never be any good, but that won't stop me. I have a name for my fiddle: One More Irrefutable Reason to Live
Um, for some reason that reminds me of the observation by Nietzsche: "I have found a name for my pain, and call it Dog."
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by 2ndFiddle
Re: to play or not to play
(I’m back after having meal…)
Oh god!! Millions of replies!!
When I post here this morning I didn’t thought it could happen… and that’s the reason why I said I was not looking for replies, I really though that my thoughts wouldn’t be an interesting item for you, but I was wrong or at least you are so kind…So, all your replies have been really really welcomed…
KFG: When I post this morning at the session, I didn't think that I could get a reply so warm and ¿nearby? Like yours..., and I'm grateful for that...
It was a really really great post, full of utility and comprehension for me , and perhaps a little light to my loosing mind...
I understand you and Ceol when you say about the feeling of having that experiences by playing… and you have reason in it: I’ve feel it…
I understand too the idea of playing in the traditional way… And enjoy so much in it, and each time you play, I think, you put your feeling in it, and you expressivity, but I think that to performance the music makes it more yours (if that’s the word…), because you put much more things of you in it, and both ways are needed and make more rich the expression of your playing and your ¿musical mind?…
For me they are two different things and are both fantastic!!
But, if it’s difficult the first , much more the second… don’t you think?
So I’m double frustrating…
Thank you for encouraging me
(and Ceol, gracias por ese inciso en español, es todo un detalle por tu parte// Eng: thanks for your few words in spanish, it’s very kind from you [more or less] )
(I wrote a more complete post, but I delete it, I don’t know how, and it’s so much work for me write again it completely, so sorry me…) J
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by McTuky
Re: to play or not to play
.-)
That's good, 2nd fiddle...
I'll think about a name for my flute...
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by McTuky
Mmmmm
¿the madness of the ITM??
.-)
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by McTuky
Re: to play or not to play
Some of my best moments have been sitting alone with my fiddle in an empty house, strangling a perfectly innocent tune.
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: to play or not to play
Something helpful I've learned along the way is that if you focus on how good the music is, rather than on how good you are, you will have more confidence, more fun with it, and less stress. It's a lot less intimidating when it's about the music, and as a result, you'll find yourself improving. Keep playing!
Marilyn
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by mjct
Re: to play or not to play
You mean...that wasn't the cat, Will?
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: to play or not to play
That's a different "highlights" home movie all together, Zina.
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: to play or not to play
he he
jim, you're a bad boy!!
"Were we just a snack between meals?", but, meals?, what meals? I had only one meal!! The meal everybody has at meal-time!!
A snack?? , or perhaps you are the meal between the snacks....
No, seriously, I´m at the job, working, so i went home for eating some food for not die....
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by McTuky
Re: to play or not to play
Sounds good to me -- I'm off to do the same!
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: to play or not to play
Music should be played from the heart. Its something I struglle with, because its so easy to get caught up in how "good" you are in comparison to other people, but try to remember everything these people have said, their very wise
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by banana512
Re: to play or not to play
Just keep on playing some day you'll get there I used to barely be able to play Flute but I am can now play pretty well. It is not a contest don't judge yourself to the professionals judge to how much worse you were before. On St. Paddy's day I made an old man happy in a pub near closing time playing GHBs as soon as I struck in and started up a set o' Minstrel Boy/Sean South of Gary Owen/Wearin' of the Green the old man (the only person at the bar at 10 at night there was a table full of 4 people this guy and the barmaids who also enjoyed it one was mesmerized by it) had a huge grin on his face I felt really proud and accomplished after I made somebody who proabably lives a bleak depressing life but for that moment in time was very happy.
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by Why Bother?
Re: to play or not to play
I now understand. If it's about being anti-social, well I'd love to hear M.G, he must be f''''ing brilliant.
At last Sunday's session a bloke told me that he played the bodhran, but was nowhere near my standard. I cheered him up by telling him that neither was anyone else. (a small lie I know). Maybe I should have told him to get an anti-social attitude.
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: to play or not to play
OK maybe I was being facetious. Michael is suggesting that great ITM is an intimate moment, and needs to be free from distractions, perhaps a bit like making love to someone you really love for the first time. I mean you don't want a crowd of people arriving attempting to join in. Well I wouldn't anyway, it could put you off your stroke, musically that is.
Now it has a certain truth that if 3 or 4 musicians sit in someone's kitchen and play away, interacting with each other, yes, it should sound good. But if that is all you do, well ITM would soon become a strange cult, complete with initiation ceremony. I am aware that some already treat it as such.
Music, especially ITM was meant to be enjoyed by all, rather than "suffered" by a few. The "Bothy Band" live used to get close to a session sound when doing a performance, without introducing gimics.
So I suppose it depends on what you want. Isolated perfection ALL THE TIME, or widen your horizons, and just play, chat, wind up, and have fun as well.
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: to play or not to play
Zina: Here's my happy face guy, and he just grew another nose from being so happy. (^^:
# Posted on April 16th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: to play or not to play
I’ll never be world renowned. Although I would love to be world famous for some positive quality about me it probably will never happen. But that’s not why I play. You need to be happy with what you can do and take joy in what others can do.
A little inspiration (obtained from a Keith Jarrett album):
Natural Disasters
As I piece together the people of the past,
they become strangers, Somehow, eyes
& lines of faces shift, & I fall out
of love with the simplicity of flesh.
Singling out several who fell down
the steps getting up in the world,
twisting their fates so they look good on paper
as if they went to town with their lives,
bought good for strayed souls.
Some surely followed the straight & narrow
& bored themselves to death.
others watched and waited
for the bone dust to collect in their rooms.
For the ones who wrestled with the lion
& let the strong claws sink in,
smothered by love & muscle,
I etch you calmly, clearly
So the sun may settle full on your forms.
-Terry Stokes
# Posted on April 17th 2005 by Pete D
Re: to play or not to play
My first contribution, I do not come around as often as I would like.
But I can recognise the feeling. Started playing around a year ago after not having played for about 10. Started out terrible, but at one point when I was about to give in, all of a sudden I left the sheet and played to the guitar - don't know how or why, it just happened, I forgot myself and just lived with it. Well, those moments are why I play. Having a stressing job, practising and feeling the music is a nice break. Playing with others can be great fun, performing also, but the feeling of a new tune starting to work is still the best. Getting it to work with others is fun and catching an audience spontaneously tapping their feet or starting dancing in a non-dancing place is also great. But some of my best moments I had alone with my violin!
I did go home from concerts being depressed about how bad I played. The next time I started I had catched a few tricks that started working and then it was inspirational. I learned to be inspired instead of depressed, worked great. I even had the opportunity to play with very good musicians - being crude in my playing and with a lousy technique, we were still able to have a good time. And that is basically what it is about, is it not?
Jeppe Madsen
# Posted on April 17th 2005 by jeppemadsen
Re: to play or not to play
OK BodhranBliss,
"The "Bothy Band" live used to get close to a session sound when doing a performance, without introducing gimmicks."
Think about that.
Who was in the Bothy band?
Weren't they all great session musicians, in a session context?
Yet when they played as a band, they were celebrated for 'getting CLOSE to a session sound.'
Now they could get a true 'session sound' standing on their heads. The fact is that when they were playing in the band they were doing something different - something which was arranged and had a dynamic which worked as a performance, but which, if you like. embodied, or reflected what was considered to be the 'genuine' sound of Irish music at the time - i.e. The session. No one is saying that this is a 'gimmick', they were all fantastic players, playing fantastic music. BUT - there is a difference between performance music and session music - that's all.
# Posted on April 17th 2005 by Ottery
Re: to play or not to play
That's what I meant by "got close to" a session sound.
Who was in Bothy Band. Two O'Donnells and I used to think it was Michael playing too "heavy" on strings until the obvious hit me, the "whirling Dervish" Lunny was to blame, good arranger though. Keenen and Molloy were excellent, and Burke but he could be very tempermental at a session. Maybe that was a gimmick. Keenan was by far the best to play with and friendliest.
Now if you repeat this......
# Posted on April 17th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: to play or not to play
Did you play with any of them at some nameless fleadh somewhere, Bliss? (How was that, jfiddlerh?
# Posted on April 17th 2005 by Zina Lee
mmmmm
inspired instead of depressed... good point!!
# Posted on April 17th 2005 by McTuky
Re: to play or not to play
If you want to play, play. If you're really crap, don't expect people to shut up and listen, but don't let that stop you playing just to yourself if you love it. A musician who plays purely for others (or admiration of others perhaps) and not for him/herself would be a odd sort of person...
Also rememebr that the average non-musician thinks that anybody who can stand upright and hold an instrument and make noises on it must be brilliant.
If you're in a session adn not sure if you're being well received, body language should tell you, even if people's mouths don't!
# Posted on April 17th 2005 by flying tigerpig
Re: to play or not to play
I don't go to fleadhs, just parties.
# Posted on April 17th 2005 by bodhran bliss
Re: to play or not to play
Go and see as many top-rate musicians as you can in concert.
Watch their technique - have a go at some of what you see and have a go at some of their tunes.
If you saw them in a session, you would want to play along - sit and study them but don't try and copy them exactly.
# Posted on April 18th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: to play or not to play
The great thing about this music, and music in pubs in general, is that it is about sharing. People joining in with instruments, singing along, even picking up the spoons off the table. I even got a lesson from a guy at the bar during a dance, who showed me how to put quarters between your knuckles and play drums on the bartop and pint glass--and he was able to do remarkable things. There is performance and listening, where most of the people are passive, and then there is sharing music, which, for me, is where it's at. And even the performances can become participation. At the concerts I attend, when the rhythm starts to pulse, you can feel the thump of feet on the floor--and if the musicians go with that pulse, the whole place moves.
# Posted on April 18th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: to play or not to play
I don't have much to add here, just a quick "Thank you" for helping me to remember why I do what I do. Especially to Kevin for that "Girl in the Park" metaphor.
That's what it's all about mes amis.
<waxing philosophical> I've always said my goal in life is to save the world, one person at a time, starting with myself. Just sometimes I need gentle reminders of that. </waxing>
# Posted on April 19th 2005 by FyfferGuy