I have some old scottish dance music which instructs that the tunes be played in the format abab. If you weren't playing for dancers would you still play abab (and how many times?) or would you play aabb instead? What does anyone else do?
When we play the tunes for contra dances we usually switch to aabb. But any other time, we have to agree before hand, unless it's a tune we've already discussed before. The principal difference, for us, is that it's easy to play abab for a 32-bar Scottish dance and then switch to another tune for the next time thru the dance, but for contra we play 32 bars of a tune 6 or 7 times before we switch tunes, and keeping track of abab as one time thru a contra is a pain. Our basic Scottish tune set book has tunes both ways, depending, I suppose, on the dance and the whim of the arranger. I've even done some tunes abba to accomodate particular dances.
Can't speak for Irish tune sessions playing Scottish tunes though.
I don't know much about this, but this would explain why a Scottish CD that I recently bought by Boston fiddler Hanneke Cassel, designed for dance accompaniment, had tunes played in ABAB that I was used to hearing in ABAB.
Depends on the tune and the people playing the tune - but mostly in sessions it would be AABB. One tune which is written ABAB, is the reel John McNeil (AKA Big John McNeil in Cape Breton) - this tune causes a huge amount of confusion in sessions, especially if there's a mixture of musicians in the session consisting those who normally play in sessions (& would usually play AABB) and those from Scottish dance bands (more likely to play ABAB).
Just to complicate things a bit more for you, in many of the 4+ part bagpipe tunes, you wouldn't repeat the parts.
Thanks, I now have not only an understanding of the nature of the beast and the whys and wherefores but have chased some old threads to find out about contra dances (we don't have those in the UK).
Hi Carly -
We generally play most tunes AABB here, in my experience, especially in sessions. However, when it comes to Scottish dance bands and ceilidh bands things get a bit flexible. Many dances do not have 32 bars (although generally multiples of 8) so bands mess about with structures and repeats routinely to make things fit.
There is also a contingent who tend to avoid repeats (either of parts or of full tunes) for reasons best known to themselves. As far as I can ascertain, this is not a tradition of longstanding, just the preference of certain individuals or groups of players.
My experience of 4 part pipe tunes is somewhat different than Ron's. What I've noticed is simply that where bands would play a 32 bar (2 part) tune twice, they would tend to only play a 4 parter once through. To be honest, I'm not sure what the usual practice is in pipe bands, but as many of the tunes have 1st and 2nd endings in some parts, I should think they usually would play the repeats.
The practice is also to play tunes twice in sessions (but 4 parters usually once) where in most Irish sessions three times is the norm. This simply reflects the practice of dance bands, which has been formed because this suits so many of the dances.
aabb or abab for Scottish tunes?
aabb or abab for Scottish tunes?
I have some old scottish dance music which instructs that the tunes be played in the format abab. If you weren't playing for dancers would you still play abab (and how many times?) or would you play aabb instead? What does anyone else do?
# Posted on April 6th 2005 by carly
Re: aabb or abab for Scottish tunes?
Are we talking about that Swedish band from the disco days?
# Posted on April 6th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: aabb or abab for Scottish tunes?
When we play the tunes for contra dances we usually switch to aabb. But any other time, we have to agree before hand, unless it's a tune we've already discussed before. The principal difference, for us, is that it's easy to play abab for a 32-bar Scottish dance and then switch to another tune for the next time thru the dance, but for contra we play 32 bars of a tune 6 or 7 times before we switch tunes, and keeping track of abab as one time thru a contra is a pain. Our basic Scottish tune set book has tunes both ways, depending, I suppose, on the dance and the whim of the arranger. I've even done some tunes abba to accomodate particular dances.
Can't speak for Irish tune sessions playing Scottish tunes though.
cj
# Posted on April 6th 2005 by cj
Re: aabb or abab for Scottish tunes?
I don't know much about this, but this would explain why a Scottish CD that I recently bought by Boston fiddler Hanneke Cassel, designed for dance accompaniment, had tunes played in ABAB that I was used to hearing in ABAB.
# Posted on April 6th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: aabb or abab for Scottish tunes?
Depends on the tune and the people playing the tune - but mostly in sessions it would be AABB. One tune which is written ABAB, is the reel John McNeil (AKA Big John McNeil in Cape Breton) - this tune causes a huge amount of confusion in sessions, especially if there's a mixture of musicians in the session consisting those who normally play in sessions (& would usually play AABB) and those from Scottish dance bands (more likely to play ABAB).
Just to complicate things a bit more for you, in many of the 4+ part bagpipe tunes, you wouldn't repeat the parts.
# Posted on April 7th 2005 by On Sabbatical
Re: aabb or abab for Scottish tunes?
"Are we talking about that Swedish band from the disco days?"
I hear the bodhrans, Farrell.
KFG
# Posted on April 7th 2005 by KFG
Re: aabb or abab for Scottish tunes?
Thanks, I now have not only an understanding of the nature of the beast and the whys and wherefores but have chased some old threads to find out about contra dances (we don't have those in the UK).
# Posted on April 7th 2005 by carly
Re: aabb or abab for Scottish tunes?
Hi Carly -
We generally play most tunes AABB here, in my experience, especially in sessions. However, when it comes to Scottish dance bands and ceilidh bands things get a bit flexible. Many dances do not have 32 bars (although generally multiples of 8) so bands mess about with structures and repeats routinely to make things fit.
There is also a contingent who tend to avoid repeats (either of parts or of full tunes) for reasons best known to themselves. As far as I can ascertain, this is not a tradition of longstanding, just the preference of certain individuals or groups of players.
My experience of 4 part pipe tunes is somewhat different than Ron's. What I've noticed is simply that where bands would play a 32 bar (2 part) tune twice, they would tend to only play a 4 parter once through. To be honest, I'm not sure what the usual practice is in pipe bands, but as many of the tunes have 1st and 2nd endings in some parts, I should think they usually would play the repeats.
The practice is also to play tunes twice in sessions (but 4 parters usually once) where in most Irish sessions three times is the norm. This simply reflects the practice of dance bands, which has been formed because this suits so many of the dances.
Too much information? Sorry!
# Posted on April 7th 2005 by kris
Re: aabb or abab for Scottish tunes?
definately not too much info... I'm faithfully passing it all on to my fellow beginner fiddle players! Thanks
# Posted on April 8th 2005 by carly
Re: aabb or abab for Scottish tunes?
Going a bit off topic, but is there a Scottish site similar to this one anywhere?
# Posted on April 15th 2005 by Kuyabri
Re: aabb or abab for Scottish tunes?
John J is on a Scottish board -- what is it, Johnny J, http://www.footstompin.com? Let's see if that works...
# Posted on April 15th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: aabb or abab for Scottish tunes?
yep, that's the bunny.
# Posted on April 15th 2005 by Zina Lee