I need to find a good onstage mic for a fiddler who doesn't want to use one clipped onto the fiddle. Thus, it will need to be mounted on a stationary stand (the fiddler does well at standing still). I'd prefer a condensor mic... I think.... I find that it's easier to turn a hot mic down than to pump in a lot of gain to turn up one with a low output.
Steve, we have a local store that will let you borrow a mic for the weekend and try it out. If you can find a place like that, try the AKG c1000. I've tried a friend's and it was very nice, although that was awhile ago. I currently use an AKG dynamic mic and it is great, except for the low output.
I debated between the c1000 and the Audio Technica ATM35, which is a clip-on condenser. I decided to try the clip-on.
Steve:
A really good mic for the price is the RODE NT5. They sound great on fiddle/violin and guitar. Here's a link so you can see what they look like. Usually they come in stereo pairs, but you can find them single. Best.
Stereo pairing to mic a fiddle (or flute) is actually probably the ideal, although it can certainly cause issues with feedback and extraneous noise in a session/band setting.
It's something to experiment with in any case, because if you can get it to work in your particular application it kicks butt.
I've owned C-1000s, but traded a pair away. Now I remember that their tight hypercardioid pattern was good.
I found them a bit brittle at times, but I can work with that.
I'll definitely have a look at the Shure Beta 87 & 98a and the Sony ECM-50. I'm not familiar with the 98 and the Sony, so thanks! I've had ... um... unsatisfying studio experiences with some Rode mics, but I'll open my mind and check again.
I wish this fiddler was as comfortable with the AT 35x Pro as some others I know, but hey... everybody's different.
A pal just wrote me that he was using Neumann KM-184s and, alternatively, Josephson C42s (less expensive than Neumanns!) small diaphragm condensors for live fiddle mic'ing and is very happy with them.
I agree that the C1000S has a slight brittle edge to it. You may like it, though. I've done lots of concert and radio sound for fiddles and I've been very happy with the Audio Technica AT873R. It's not to expensive, but sounds really nice. It's also small and unobtrusive. For more money, the AT4041 is even nicer.
I've never heard a dynamic mic I'd choose over a decent condenser like the 873R for acoustic instruments, especially fiddle. There's a reason why recording engineers choose condenser mics.
Remember, if you're going to compare mics, you have to try them all in the same room and under the same conditions. It's very easy to fool yourself if you compare different mics in different settings. The room, speakers, number of people in the room, EQ on the mixing board and other things affect the sound significantly - more than you might think.
I'll look into an 837R, thanks! I'm not familiar with it, so that will be fun.
As for dynamics vs condensors, one of my earliest recording teachers worked for Chess Records for many years, so that has influenced my mic choices over the years. Personally, I can't assume that any condensor is better than any dynamic mic for any application.
“Personally, I can't assume that any condensor is better than any dynamic mic for any application.”
Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that. Whatever sounds best for you is best for you. It’s just that dynamic mics are inherently physically incapable of reproducing the finer details of a complex sound source (acoustic instruments) as *accurately* as condenser mics. Beyond that accuracy, there are other factors that might go into the choice. I tend to use SM-58’s for live vocals for several reasons, not least of which is that virtually all performers are familiar with them (whether they realize it or not) and understand how to “work” them. Also, subtly innaccurate reproduction of the human voice is not as detectable as with other instruments.
Just a little more and then I’ll stop preaching.
When someone tells me they’re not satisfied with how a particular mic works with their instrument, I always recommend trying a condenser mic with a fairly flat frequency response (graphs are always available online) to establish a baseline. Once you understand that sound, you have a basis for comparing with other mics, and you can tell a lot just by comparing the frequency response graphs.
Lots of mics, especially dynamics, are designed to flatter singers. They may have a “presence peak” in the upper frequencies or a robust proximity effect that lets a singer move in a little closer to enrich the lower frequencies. These things can be good (occassionally) or bad (more often) for instruments.
You can help yourself tremendously in mic shopping if you get a feel for the difference between dynamic and condenser, and learn to interpret frequency response graphs (it’s really not hard). A very flat response curve means very accurate reproduction. Any deviation from flat amounts to sound processing, like the EQ knobs on a mixing board.
Fiddle mic?
Fiddle mic?
I need to find a good onstage mic for a fiddler who doesn't want to use one clipped onto the fiddle. Thus, it will need to be mounted on a stationary stand (the fiddler does well at standing still). I'd prefer a condensor mic... I think.... I find that it's easier to turn a hot mic down than to pump in a lot of gain to turn up one with a low output.
What do you folks use and like?
Many thanks,
steveV
# Posted on March 30th 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Fiddle mic?
Shure Beta 87 is a safe bet. You can also try one of the AKG Condenser models and see how you like them.
# Posted on March 30th 2005 by Hanley
Re: Fiddle mic?
The Beta 87 is recommended for vocals. Shure has this to offer for strings:
http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/beta98s.asp#top
# Posted on March 30th 2005 by Kerri Brown
(Plus that one's cheaper than the 87A.)
# Posted on March 30th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Fiddle mic?
Steve, we have a local store that will let you borrow a mic for the weekend and try it out. If you can find a place like that, try the AKG c1000. I've tried a friend's and it was very nice, although that was awhile ago. I currently use an AKG dynamic mic and it is great, except for the low output.
I debated between the c1000 and the Audio Technica ATM35, which is a clip-on condenser. I decided to try the clip-on.
# Posted on March 30th 2005 by Jode
Re: Fiddle mic?
Steve:
A really good mic for the price is the RODE NT5. They sound great on fiddle/violin and guitar. Here's a link so you can see what they look like. Usually they come in stereo pairs, but you can find them single. Best.
http://www.bpmmusic.com/rode/html/rode_nt5_microphone.html
# Posted on March 30th 2005 by nfiddle
Re: Fiddle mic?
Stereo pairing to mic a fiddle (or flute) is actually probably the ideal, although it can certainly cause issues with feedback and extraneous noise in a session/band setting.
It's something to experiment with in any case, because if you can get it to work in your particular application it kicks butt.
KFG
# Posted on March 30th 2005 by KFG
Re: Fiddle mic?
I sometimes use an AKG C-1000S on stage as well as using a Yamaha SV-200 electric fiddle. The AKG mike ha a removable sound direction filter as well. Look at
http://www.akg.com/products/powerslave,mynodeid,186,id,759,pid,759,_language,EN.html
Jim
# Posted on March 30th 2005 by Worldfiddler
Re: Fiddle mic?
A fiddle-playing acquaintance of mine, who's A Professional, swears by the Sony ECM-50. They wind up on e-Bay every so often, he says.
# Posted on March 30th 2005 by sts
Re: Fiddle mic?
Thanks!
I've owned C-1000s, but traded a pair away. Now I remember that their tight hypercardioid pattern was good.
I found them a bit brittle at times, but I can work with that.
I'll definitely have a look at the Shure Beta 87 & 98a and the Sony ECM-50. I'm not familiar with the 98 and the Sony, so thanks! I've had ... um... unsatisfying studio experiences with some Rode mics, but I'll open my mind and check again.
I wish this fiddler was as comfortable with the AT 35x Pro as some others I know, but hey... everybody's different.
A pal just wrote me that he was using Neumann KM-184s and, alternatively, Josephson C42s (less expensive than Neumanns!) small diaphragm condensors for live fiddle mic'ing and is very happy with them.
Thanks! I hope to hear from more of you all, too.
stv
# Posted on March 31st 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Fiddle mic?
I agree that the C1000S has a slight brittle edge to it. You may like it, though. I've done lots of concert and radio sound for fiddles and I've been very happy with the Audio Technica AT873R. It's not to expensive, but sounds really nice. It's also small and unobtrusive. For more money, the AT4041 is even nicer.
I've never heard a dynamic mic I'd choose over a decent condenser like the 873R for acoustic instruments, especially fiddle. There's a reason why recording engineers choose condenser mics.
Remember, if you're going to compare mics, you have to try them all in the same room and under the same conditions. It's very easy to fool yourself if you compare different mics in different settings. The room, speakers, number of people in the room, EQ on the mixing board and other things affect the sound significantly - more than you might think.
# Posted on March 31st 2005 by Bob himself
Re: Fiddle mic?
I'll look into an 837R, thanks! I'm not familiar with it, so that will be fun.
As for dynamics vs condensors, one of my earliest recording teachers worked for Chess Records for many years, so that has influenced my mic choices over the years. Personally, I can't assume that any condensor is better than any dynamic mic for any application.
Thanks again for the good help!
stv
# Posted on March 31st 2005 by stv culchie
Re: Fiddle mic?
“Personally, I can't assume that any condensor is better than any dynamic mic for any application.”
Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that. Whatever sounds best for you is best for you. It’s just that dynamic mics are inherently physically incapable of reproducing the finer details of a complex sound source (acoustic instruments) as *accurately* as condenser mics. Beyond that accuracy, there are other factors that might go into the choice. I tend to use SM-58’s for live vocals for several reasons, not least of which is that virtually all performers are familiar with them (whether they realize it or not) and understand how to “work” them. Also, subtly innaccurate reproduction of the human voice is not as detectable as with other instruments.
Just a little more and then I’ll stop preaching.
When someone tells me they’re not satisfied with how a particular mic works with their instrument, I always recommend trying a condenser mic with a fairly flat frequency response (graphs are always available online) to establish a baseline. Once you understand that sound, you have a basis for comparing with other mics, and you can tell a lot just by comparing the frequency response graphs.
Lots of mics, especially dynamics, are designed to flatter singers. They may have a “presence peak” in the upper frequencies or a robust proximity effect that lets a singer move in a little closer to enrich the lower frequencies. These things can be good (occassionally) or bad (more often) for instruments.
You can help yourself tremendously in mic shopping if you get a feel for the difference between dynamic and condenser, and learn to interpret frequency response graphs (it’s really not hard). A very flat response curve means very accurate reproduction. Any deviation from flat amounts to sound processing, like the EQ knobs on a mixing board.
# Posted on March 31st 2005 by Bob himself